2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part II

[Amazing Kreiderman]

**DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT A SHIT ON SEAN DAY DEBATE. PRIMARILY A DISCUSSION ON CHL OVER/UNDER OTHER DEVELOPMENT LEAGUES**

Thought this video was very interesting, particularly the first minute of it. There has been a pretty steep decline of players getting drafted out of the CHL. Over the last few drafts, a lot of Europeans and NCAA feeder leagues (USHL, AJHL, OJHL) have been gaining more steam than the CHL and it shows. He asked the question, but I'll ask it here, too. Is the CHL dying?

Frankly, I don't see the CHL dying, but think that leagues elsewhere have been putting more thought onto their development programs (namely Finland, Sweden, Germany and Russia). IMO, the best development league is the NCAA by a wide margin. I get that players playing in pro hockey overseas are more prominent for pro rated offenses/defenses and goaltending, but the NCAA truly tests the physical and speed aspect of the game (something very necessary for today's NHL) along with NHL schemes and technical skills (PK/PP). Also, the North American styled ice rinks (granted some KHL teams are now shrinking their rinks to NHL styled) will definitely change the curve of one's long term development. It's not to say that some players might benefit more by playing overseas, but there have been a lot college FA's being brought in on NHL/AHL deals than undrafted Europeans. Nonetheless, what are your thoughts? Would love to have a healthy debate on this topic!!

I don't think the CHL is dying per se, but I think this is a expected result of the globalization of the sport. While other leagues are improving, the CHL is what it has always been. The high level of hockey, the entertainment value. It's still there. But prospects have different routes to the NHL. The feeder leagues are an interesting bit to touch on. While it wasn't unheard of to draft players out of the AJHL for instance, in recent years you see some high quality players such as Makar who went from the feeder leagues straight to the NCAA and then the NHL. The emergence and further development of the US NTDP has reaped its rewards, doing what it was intially inteded for.

I think, overall, it's just other junior leagues catching up, rather than the CHL dropping or "dying". The European leagues have always been there, and the quality has always been there but 10-15 years ago, those players would be drafted in the 4th round or later with some exceptions. I don't think it's a difference in quality, but more a difference in exposure. You see a lot more EU based players drafted high these days, because NHL teams invest more heavily in Eropean scouting than they did a decade or so ago. All in all, I don't think the CHL can really do anything to combat this. It's just a wider spread of talent. There are still a lot of quality players coming through the CHL system. They just no longer have the monopoly on it. The CHL is a bit like USPS, with the NCAA, USHL being FedEx and DHL. They won't disappear, but there are just more options for the customers (prospects).

Regarding NCAA vs Europe. I still believe the biggest challenge for prospects is the cultural change when making the move. Sure, rink size does impact it a bit and some time for adjustment is needed, but a kid from Turku, Hodonin, Mannheim, Umeå, Nur-Sultan (formerly Astana) moving to North America to play NHL hockey will on average have more challenges to overcome than a kid from Tulsa, Tempe, Corpus Christi, Kennewick etc. which is often overlooked.

 

[Joey Bones]

I don't think the CHL is dying per se, but I think this is a expected result of the globalization of the sport. While other leagues are improving, the CHL is what it has always been. The high level of hockey, the entertainment value. It's still there. But prospects have different routes to the NHL. The feeder leagues are an interesting bit to touch on. While it wasn't unheard of to draft players out of the AJHL for instance, in recent years you see some high quality players such as Makar who went from the feeder leagues straight to the NCAA and then the NHL. The emergence and further development of the US NTDP has reaped its rewards, doing what it was intially inteded for.

I think, overall, it's just other junior leagues catching up, rather than the CHL dropping or "dying". The European leagues have always been there, and the quality has always been there but 10-15 years ago, those players would be drafted in the 4th round or later with some exceptions. I don't think it's a difference in quality, but more a difference in exposure. You see a lot more EU based players drafted high these days, because NHL teams invest more heavily in Eropean scouting than they did a decade or so ago. All in all, I don't think the CHL can really do anything to combat this. It's just a wider spread of talent. There are still a lot of quality players coming through the CHL system. They just no longer have the monopoly on it. The CHL is a bit like USPS, with the NCAA, USHL being FedEx and DHL. They won't disappear, but there are just more options for the customers (prospects).

Regarding NCAA vs Europe. I still believe the biggest challenge for prospects is the cultural change when making the move. Sure, rink size does impact it a bit and some time for adjustment is needed, but a kid from Turku, Hodonin, Mannheim, Umeå, Nur-Sultan (formerly Astana) moving to North America to play NHL hockey will on average have more challenges to overcome than a kid from Tulsa, Tempe, Corpus Christi, Kennewick etc. which is often overlooked.

Good points, especially the cultural aspect of Euros coming over. You can start seeing that with most players the Rangers have had come in the AHL/KHL. Players like Stromwall, Kovacs, Lindqvist and recently Andersson are coming out with concerns over their moves and other specifics.

 

[Joey Bones]

'Dream come true': Bedard on being first to be granted exceptional status in WHL

With the topic on hand, WHL has its first exceptional player in Connor Bedard yesterday!!

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Good points, especially the cultural aspect of Euros coming over. You can start seeing that with most players the Rangers have had come in the AHL/KHL. Players like Stromwall, Kovacs, Lindqvist and recently Andersson are coming out with concerns over their moves and other specifics.

I think the mental maturity of a player is the most important aspect when it comes to adjusting aside from talent. You have guys like Rasmus Dahlin, Anže Kopitar and Sasha Barkov who move right after being drafted and they play from day 1. That success certainly helps someone's mental state of mind. When you are successful at your job, it makes the transition a lot easier. The question on what to do applies to the guys who aren't NHL ready immediately. Do you bring them over and send them to the AHL, trying to adjust? Or do you keep them in Europe to mature and have them make the jump to the NHL immediately at a later age?

The CBA offers a 4-year span of exclusive rights. You have that option, and with guys like Mikael Granlund, Evgeni Kuznetsov, Vladimir Tarasenko*, and Tomas Hertl, it has paid off in the past, proving that the rink size isn't as big of a hurdle as it is made out to be in my opinion. If it was, these 3 would have spent significant time in the AHL as well. Tarasenko, like Granlund spent 3 full years in Europe and came over at age 21. Kuznetsov played 4 seasons in the KHL after being drafted.

There's a case to be made for both, but on a player by player basis you just don't know what to do and it's a gamble. Would Mikael Granlund have the same impact if he had developed in the AHL? Would Lias Andersson have a different trajectory had he stayed in Sweden for 2-3 years instead of being moved to the AHL halfway through his first season? The fact that there are both success stories and stories of failure in both scenarios, shows that there isn't one golden rule to have your prospect succeed.

*KHL players' rights don't expire of course.

 

[Joey Bones]

Source from a friend, apparently a lot of teams are interested in Tyler Kleven in the 1st round. Pretty decent defensive defender out of the USNTDP, but I wonder just how much teams like him and are the Rangers one of them. This could be a great scenario where the Rangers could grab a falling talent with the amount of interest in defenders.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Source from a friend, apparently a lot of teams are interested in Tyler Kleven in the 1st round. Pretty decent defensive defender out of the USNTDP, but I wonder just how much teams like him and are the Rangers one of them. This could be a great scenario where the Rangers could grab a falling talent with the amount of interest in defenders.

I wonder how the potential lack of a combine will affect the draft

 

[Joey Bones]

I wonder how the potential lack of a combine will affect the draft

Tremendous!! From the same source, there was a scouting service who is conducting a virtual combine (think he said it was NHL Central Scouting). In it they're using technology to gain info off of games they have notes/video on and the interviews they had with the coaches/training staff/players themselves to determine the combine tests. Will be very inaccurate if true, but it could definitely change the way some of these players will rise or fall. I remember him saying that Sanderson finished in the top 3 of all testing categories, which is interesting for sure!!

We'll see....

 

[AlternateSideParking]

I really don't care who the Rangers draft in the first round, and that includes Askarov or Gunler. I'm more interested to see JD's influence (if any) on the later rounds. Drafting Henriksson, Jones, and Aaltonen, regardless of what they become, was very non-Gordie Clark. Hopefully the trend continues.

There are a ton of interesting Russians and Czechs -- kids who play in tougher leagues and can skate and play in all three zones. No more experiments. There are plenty of kids at every position who can skate, play physical, and drive other teams crazy.

These are the type of kids I want the Rangers to draft:

Seth Jarvis
JJ Peterka
Justin Sourdif
Daniel Torgersson
Karel Klikorka
Cross Hanas
Brett Berard
Eemil Viro
Ben Meehan
Michal Simon
Carter Savoie
Joni Jurmo
William Wallinder
Ty Smilanic
Tyler Kleven
Luke Evangelista
Ryan Alexander
Alexei Tsyplakov
Artyom Zhuk
Colby Ambrosio
Wyatt Kaiser
Blake Biondi
Dmitry Zlodeyev
Ilya Ovchinnikov (he's better than Dmitry)

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I really don't care who the Rangers draft in the first round, and that includes Askarov or Gunler. I'm more interested to see JD's influence (if any) on the later rounds. Drafting Henriksson, Jones, and Aaltonen, regardless of what they become, was very non-Gordie Clark. Hopefully the trend continues.

There are a ton of interesting Russians and Czechs -- kids who play in tougher leagues and can skate and play in all three zones. No more experiments. There are plenty of kids at every position who can skate, play physical, and drive other teams crazy.

These are the type of kids I want the Rangers to draft:

Seth Jarvis
JJ Peterka
Justin Sourdif
Daniel Torgersson
Karel Klikorka
Cross Hanas
Brett Berard
Eemil Viro
Ben Meehan
Michal Simon
Carter Savoie
Joni Jurmo
William Wallinder
Ty Smilanic
Tyler Kleven
Luke Evangelista
Ryan Alexander
Alexei Tsyplakov
Artyom Zhuk
Colby Ambrosio
Wyatt Kaiser
Blake Biondi
Dmitry Zlodeyev
Ilya Ovchinnikov (he's better than Dmitry)

Those aren't boos you hear, Joe. Those are " Zhuk, Zhuk" chants!

 

[cwede]

NHL extends player development agreements

NHL extends player development agreements
One-year extensions approved for existing pacts with IIHF leagues, CHL
by NHL Public Relations @PR_NHL April 28, 2020

The following agreements have been approved by the NHL Board of Governors and are effective immediately for the 2020-21 season:
* A one-year extension of the existing player transfer agreements with each of the IIHF member federation/leagues in Austria, Belarus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Latvia, Norway, Slovakia, Sweden and the United Kingdom.
* A new one-year player transfer agreement with the Swiss Ice Hockey Association and Swiss League.
* A one-year extension of the existing agreement with the Canadian Hockey League and its constituent organizations (Ontario Hockey League, Quebec Major Junior Hockey League, Western Hockey League).
Player signings for European players pursuant to, and in accordance with, each of the player transfer agreements may commence effective immediately.

 

[wafflepadsave]

2020 Draft Profile: LW Emil Heineman - The Draft Analyst And I like this description.

 

[Joey Bones]

There will be a hearing today on whether or not the draft will be in early June with new rules in place. Stay tuned...

 

[Mac n Gs]

Early June draft is such a stupid decision that doesn't need to be rushed, but NHL can't help themselves sometimes.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Early June draft is such a stupid decision that doesn't need to be rushed, but NHL can't help themselves sometimes.

And then change the lottery rules. Unbelievable.

 

[Fitzy]

This would be the perfect year to just drop the draft and change the eligibility age to 19 for next season, but no way that happens.

We'd miss some great 18 year old rookie seasons like McDavid and Crosby, and also see more players run overseas like Matthews.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

This would be the perfect year to just drop the draft and change the eligibility age to 19 for next season, but no way that happens.

We'd miss some great 18 year old rookie seasons like McDavid and Crosby, and also see more players run overseas like Matthews.

Change the eligibility date from Sept 15th (what a ridiculous random date) to Jan 1st so it is the same as the IIHF calendar to determine age eligibility.

But no, let's force the draft and put an asterisk on that as well

 

[Mac n Gs]

And then change the lottery rules. Unbelievable.

There's seemingly no good logic for this other than to have an event to get fans engaged again. It only annoys me further when you factor in the Rangers getting absolutely boned by this decision.

 

[bl02]

There's seemingly no good logic for this other than to have an event to get fans engaged again. It only annoys me further when you factor in the Rangers getting absolutely boned by this decision.

How do we get boned? Highly unlikely we were getting a top 3 pick sitting at 13/14th?
Actually we might be able to double dip and get to pick 13th and make playoffs if they finish out regular season somehow?
I would think teams like Montreal and Buffalo get hit the hardest and teams like Detroit/Buffalo benefit the most.

I think the best case scenario for us would be if they went with top 6 in each division go to playoffs. That would mean we would pick top 7 for sure.

 

[Joey Bones]

 

[bl02]

do you think any chance they do the top 6 in each division make playoffs (the 4 pod system) and leave us to pick top 7?

 

[Joey Bones]

There's seemingly no good logic for this other than to have an event to get fans engaged again. It only annoys me further when you factor in the Rangers getting absolutely boned by this decision.

I don't see how NYR gets boned, but it definitely doesn't help their chances of getting in the top 3. I mean reverting back to the old lottery sucks (and kind of boring that there won't be any trades except for draft pick movement), but the Rangers are vying for a playoff spot and are, unfortunately, outside the cut, ATM. Even if they ultimately failed to get in the playoffs, they're picking in the No. 13/14 range. It was a long shot to get there in the first place. It would be a bad scenario if the draft happens, the season restarts and the Rangers plummet in the standings and don't make the playoffs. Then we all would play the "what if" game.

I do think that the Rangers scouting department have done their homework and are willing to restart whatever and whenever possible. They have two 1sts, they just need to make the most out of them.

 

[Joey Bones]

do you think any chance they do the top 6 in each division make playoffs (the 4 pod system) and leave us to pick top 7?

Honestly it's tough. That format would have the following teams snubbed from the playoffs (Metro: Rangers-79 pts, Devils-68 pts, Atlantic: Senators-62 pts, Red Wings-39 pts, Central: Blackhawks-72 pts, Pacific: Kings-64 pts, Sharks-63 pts) while giving teams who don't have a chance... a chance (Anaheim-67 pts, Buffalo-68 pts, Montreal-71 pts).

It would be a drastic change for a team like the Ducks and Rangers. I, for one, want the Rangers to start making pushes towards the playoffs so I'm all for any ideas where the league could have the Rangers in the post season or a chance for the post season. I'd be disappointed if this format were the case, but I can see it. If that's the case, though, the league needs to determine that before this preliminary early draft so the Rangers could have that chance at the top 3.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Honestly it's tough. That format would have the following teams snubbed from the playoffs (Metro: Rangers-79 pts, Devils-68 pts, Atlantic: Senators-62 pts, Red Wings-39 pts, Central: Blackhawks-72 pts, Pacific: Kings-64 pts, Sharks-63 pts) while giving teams who don't have a chance... a chance (Anaheim-67 pts, Buffalo-68 pts, Montreal-71 pts).

It would be a drastic change for a team like the Ducks and Rangers. I, for one, want the Rangers to start making pushes towards the playoffs so I'm all for any ideas where the league could have the Rangers in the post season or a chance for the post season. I'd be disappointed if this format were the case, but I can see it. If that's the case, though, the league needs to determine that before this preliminary early draft so the Rangers could have that chance at the top 3.

Last year Montreal (96 pts) missed out on the play offs while Dallas (93), Vegas (93) and Colorado (90) made the play offs. This happens almost every year

 

[bl02]

Honestly it's tough. That format would have the following teams snubbed from the playoffs (Metro: Rangers-79 pts, Devils-68 pts, Atlantic: Senators-62 pts, Red Wings-39 pts, Central: Blackhawks-72 pts, Pacific: Kings-64 pts, Sharks-63 pts) while giving teams who don't have a chance... a chance (Anaheim-67 pts, Buffalo-68 pts, Montreal-71 pts).

It would be a drastic change for a team like the Ducks and Rangers. I, for one, want the Rangers to start making pushes towards the playoffs so I'm all for any ideas where the league could have the Rangers in the post season or a chance for the post season. I'd be disappointed if this format were the case, but I can see it. If that's the case, though, the league needs to determine that before this preliminary early draft so the Rangers could have that chance at the top 3.

Something tells me that they are gonna scrap the regular season and push right to the playoffs. If that is they case they better make sure they have the draft situation figured out. If they use the top 6 division format there would be only one team really getting screwed and that would be us. Chicago being a distant second.

 

[Joey Bones]

Last year Montreal (96 pts) missed out on the play offs while Dallas (93), Vegas (93) and Colorado (90) made the play offs. This happens almost every year

Yeah, but that was with a full season in the books with no potential 24-team playoff format. This is unusual to put it lightly. Hoping the league determines a format that isn't going to f*** the Rangers postseason run or chance at the top 7.