2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part II

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Trading down in the top-10 is as rare as an accepted offer sheet. The last time that happened was 2007.

Some things only happen on message boards these days

It's rare, but let's not forget Arizona completely traded out for basically Derek Stepan in 2017, and apparently Edmonton came down to the wire in trading out at #8 for Buch last draft.

It seems especially "possible" if we are sitting at something like 10 ourselves and trying to get up for a guy we like at 6 or 7. Teams will have different impressions of different players and if you sweeten the pot enough, anything is possible.

But certainly unlikely without an overpay. Which is one of the reasons why accumulating assets would have seemed to me to be the right move at the deadline.
 
HAHAHAHAHA you re-read you donut. His proposed package involves picks and prospects. Trading INTO THE TOP 10 WAS THE THEME. NO TRADING DOWN. WE TRADED INTO THE TOP 10 IN 2017. THUS FALSE PARAMETERS WERE SET TO PROVE A FALSE POINT.

Trade Down was never brought up until AK used it to prove a point how 'rare it is'.

Did we trade into the top10 in 2017? Is that a trade down? A trade up? Trade into? Stop this f***in nonsense

You really should adjust your attitude. Not every exchange with you needs to be a dick measuring contest.
 
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I keep reading how great this draft is so would rather keep both #1’s. Especially without a #2

I'm hopeful we could find two more "hits" like we did with Miller and Lundkvist late in 2018, except maybe at forward.... landing, like, a Necas and Chytil would be great for us.

But if I could package something to get up, even trading away a roster player to do so, to get Stutzle, Holtz, or Rossi... sign me up.
 
Sorry bud, I’m not trading Kratvsov or Lundkvist for a prospect who’s further along. I honestly wouldn’t trade Buch or Strome unless the other team is sending someone of equal value or someone with a chance to shine if given the right opportunity (ie Lemieux, DeAngelo, Gauthier) in return with the pick.

Presuming that a similar deal to the Edmonton one from last year might be available (Buch for #8 overall which would have been Zegras for us), I think we'd be insane not to accept that deal.

Buch may be less valuable now with a year less term, but he's also had a year with a bit higher production as well, so who knows? But I'd add to a package like that to get a pick if my guy was there. For Lundell? Maybe not. But if Holtz or Rossi is still on the board? All day long.
 
I'm hopeful we could find two more "hits" like we did with Miller and Lundkvist late in 2018, except maybe at forward.... landing, like, a Necas and Chytil would be great for us.

But if I could package something to get up, even trading away a roster player to do so, to get Stutzle, Holtz, or Rossi... sign me up.

Yeah, and I think that this draft has a lot of potential for that, and especially if our picks can be a little higher than like the ‘bad’ case scenario. I don’t for a second think we are dropping into the top 10. But say 12-14 and 20-22, give or take a few spots, instead of like say 17 and 27...

I have not yet gone back and started to watch these kids closely, but it seems like there are many kids in the 20-45 range in many rankings that had potential to move up a good number of spots.
 
at this point with this roster, i could care less about draft picks in this draft. really could care less. i like our prospects but this draft - picking where we are likely to pick, is about 3-5 years down the road rather than next year.

this team needs to back fill some holes with players ala. julien gauthier and others of that ilk. adding another college fee agent interests me.

weve settled on CK as someone we want to reinvest in. time to add some more NHL ready talent now.

we need to add s0me size, grit and some ability to control game flow. we lack that for the most part. we have the fancy dancers and skill guys in spades. i love our top 6 and the entire right side of the defense. i love shesterkin going forward with Georgie the 2.

i do not like the bottom 6 - for the most part- as its presently constructed. some of the guys living rent free in the top 6 now dont belong there next year. some guys in our bottom 6 now need to go away.

we MUST fix the LD. ryan cant play top pair minutes. hes a perfect 2LD. rykov ? hajek ?

would i package a prospect to move up in the draft ? eh... i would rather package picks to acquire NHL ready, cost controlled guys ready to step in right now.

im one of those who believes we are close to being competitive. imo, this rebuild is essentially close to completion after reupping on #20, how can it be both ways ? it cant.
 
at this point with this roster, i could care less about draft picks in this draft. really could care less. i like our prospects but this draft - picking where we are likely to pick, is about 3-5 years down the road rather than next year.

this team needs to back fill some holes with players ala. julien gauthier and others of that ilk. adding another college fee agent interests me.

weve settled on CK as someone we want to reinvest in. time to add some more NHL ready talent now.

we need to add s0me size, grit and some ability to control game flow. we lack that for the most part. we have the fancy dancers and skill guys in spades. i love our top 6 and the entire right side of the defense. i love shesterkin going forward with Georgie the 2.

i do not like the bottom 6 - for the most part- as its presently constructed. some of the guys living rent free in the top 6 now dont belong there next year. some guys in our bottom 6 now need to go away.

we MUST fix the LD. ryan cant play top pair minutes. hes a perfect 2LD. rykov ? hajek ?

would i package a prospect to move up in the draft ? eh... i would rather package picks to acquire NHL ready, cost controlled guys ready to step in right now.

im one of those who believes we are close to being competitive. imo, this rebuild is essentially close to completion after reupping on #20, how can it be both ways ? it cant.
Well in 3-5 years you’re gonna need guys who can step in and contribute on cheap contracts when the guys on the end of their big long term contracts production starts to dip
 
We are absolutely not close to being competitive in the spirit that we need to be. Close to being a playoff team, yes.

But we have gotten thumped repeatedly by St. Louis, Boston and Philadelphia. Yes, we beat Washington, but remember, going 1-4 against these teams is kind of a sign. We aren't holding up across a seven game series, let alone MULTIPLE playoff series', against these teams, Kreider or no.

We aren't close yet.

Please, please stop rushing this rebuild. We are on the right track. We are probably making the playoffs next year. Or the year after at the absolute latest. The experience will come.

But keep acquiring assets for now. We aren't done yet.
 
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Well in 3-5 years you’re gonna need guys who can step in and contribute on cheap contracts when the guys on the end of their big long term contracts production starts to dip

no one is saying stop drafting. no one is saying dont fill the pipeline.

all im saying is use the picks and players we have to fill in this roster. same as always. but lets also move this thing along.

im not buying for one second the notion that we need to keep "rebuilding". you are always technically rebuilding i guess but once we resigned #20 for 7 more years, and having bread and mika and now shesty in place, its time to focus on the next phase. playoffs. and that means improving the roster now.

we arent selling assets now. we arent sending a letter to the fans anymore. time to improve what we have for next season.

no one is saying return to signing expensive FA's like the dark old days. not gonna happen.

lets move this thing along. were close but saying "stay the course" and saying "we arent close yet" is disingenuous.
 
no one is saying stop drafting. no one is saying dont fill the pipeline.

all im saying is use the picks and players we have to fill in this roster. same as always. but lets also move this thing along.

im not buying for one second the notion that we need to keep "rebuilding". you are always technically rebuilding i guess but once we resigned #20 for 7 more years, and having bread and mika and now shesty in place, its time to focus on the next phase. playoffs. and that means improving the roster now.

we arent selling assets now. we arent sending a letter to the fans anymore. time to improve what we have for next season.

no one is saying return to signing expensive FA's like the dark old days. not gonna happen.

lets move this thing along. were close but saying "stay the course" and saying "we arent close yet" is disingenuous.

I don't think we are close to "cup contender," yet. We may have the pieces already in hand to become close: Once Kakko, Kravtsov, and Chytil turn into stars, but we aren't there yet.

You also must acknowledge there is a difference between being a playoff contender that can win a round, versus a true Cup Contender that will not only be favored and win a round, but can and will win multiple rounds and has a good chance at winning four rounds.

We are right there with the former. We are not far from basically being able to match the Islanders, Hurricanes, Blue Jackets, etc, on a consistent basis. But we aren't close to being able to go toe-to-toe with Boston, Washington, St. Louis, probably not with teams like Philadelphia or Colorado either over the course of 7 games. Maybe in one series, but in 3 or 4 series? No.

What's the rush?

You say "stop selling" but I say, yes, continue to sell. Continue to identify the Brady Skjei pieces who do not fit here long term and sell them. Of course we are much more likely to make the playoffs with Skjei here, but another crack at a Chytil type player helps us way more down the line than just cracking into the playoffs helps us now.

It is true we are running out of pieces to sell, perhaps. Kreider was one, but we bought instead. Fast I suspect we self-rented. Buch and Strome are two pieces, though, that I am listening on. Same for Georgiev.

I guess my point is: I would not approach this offseason looking to add veterans for the goal of making a playoff push next year specifically. This is just a wild hypothetical, I am not advocating it, but if, say, Taylor Hall wanted to sign here, and we could somehow make that contract work long term, yes, ok, I'll sign him, he's a former Hart winner at age 29.

But I am not at the stage where I'm running out to give Nick Bonino $4.5m a season to solidify our bottom 6 because it's bleeding like a sieve (and it is). I'd rather suffer through another year with a sub-par bottom 6, play the kids, and continue to stockpile that cap space for the future, sign the kids to long term extensions with the savings, and get another decent draft pick.
 
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We are absolutely not close to being competitive in the spirit that we need to be. Close to being a playoff team, yes.

But we have gotten thumped repeatedly by Boston and Philadelphia. Yes, we beat Washington, but remember, going 1-3 against these teams is kind of a sign. We aren't holding up across a seven game series, let alone MULTIPLE playoff series', against these teams, Kreider or no.

We aren't close yet.

Please, please stop rushing this rebuild. We are on the right track. We are probably making the playoffs next year. Or the year after at the absolute latest. The experience will come.

But keep acquiring assets for now. We aren't done yet.

disagree.

we can play with anyone right now when we play our game. can we win a 7 games series with this roster against boston ? thats a no. right now.

next year, no reason we cant if we make some changes.

again, no one is saying abandon drafting or stop adding assets.

im saying lets consider packaging some assets for a player who can help us win next year and in the future. its not just adding prospects via the draft.

lets rebuild with more deals like gauthier and lemme
 
disagree.

we can play with anyone right now when we play our game. can we win a 7 games series with this roster against boston ? thats a no. right now.

next year, no reason we cant if we make some changes.

again, no one is saying abandon drafting or stop adding assets.

im saying lets consider packaging some assets for a player who can help us win next year and in the future. its not just adding prospects via the draft.

lets rebuild with more deals like gauthier and lemme

Yeah, agree to disagree then.

Even though I think we can win ONE series against a team like Boston, because Panarin and Zbad are playing like hockey gods right now, I just cannot see them winning more than one. With any tweaks we could reasonably make between now and next season. I'm not in this to get stuck as a second round exit team again.

I think we should be aiming for dynasty. If we fall short, so be it, but we should be getting tons of forward assets still so we can roll deep with attacking line after attacking line. We're just not there yet.
 
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Yeah, agree to disagree then.

Even though I think we can win ONE series against a team like Boston, because Panarin and Zbad are playing like hockey gods right now, I just cannot see them winning more than one. With any tweaks we could reasonably make between now and next season. I'm not in this to get stuck as a second round exit team again.

I think we should be aiming for dynasty. If we fall short, so be it, but we should be getting tons of forward assets still so we can roll deep with attacking line after attacking line. We're just not there yet.

well sounds good but its not entirely true.

2 seasons ago no one saw the blues raising the cup when they were dead last in the league before christmas. binnington came in and they won the whole shebang.

vegas has done amazing things in 3 years.

happens.

dynasty ? back to back winners are unicorns. dynasty?? really.

rebuilding teams like the oilers and the coyotes and the sens and now the devils are always rebuilding. no thanks

its goes like this.

get good players. make the playoffs. build a winning culture. expect the playoffs. win every series. raise a cup.

im all in on that. sooner rather than later.
 
well sounds good but its not entirely true.

2 seasons ago no one saw the blues raising the cup when they were dead last in the league before christmas. binnington came in and they won the whole shebang.

vegas has done amazing things in 3 years.

happens.

dynasty ? back to back winners are unicorns. dynasty?? really.

rebuilding teams like the oilers and the coyotes and the sens and now the devils are always rebuilding. no thanks

its goes like this.

get good players. make the playoffs. build a winning culture. expect the playoffs. win every series. raise a cup.

im all in on that. sooner rather than later.

Don't agree. It has already been thoroughly debunked over and over again why this team has no need to fear becoming the Oilers or Coyotes, so that I don't need to address it again, but that's not really a realistic thing to be considering. It's just not gonna happen, it does not need to be part of any analysis.

The question is, what is the natural progression to a contender for multiple Cup wins in a decade? "Dynasty" or not is a bit of semantics, but I'm saying we should be aiming to become a team with staying power of which there are multiple examples in the last two decades, so it is not a unicorn, it's something that can and does happen (Penguins, Blackhawks, Kings, and Bruins would all count at least in my book).

I don't agree that the path is "get good players, make the playoffs, build a winning culture, turn into the Bruins." There is a deliberate building strategy that Jeff Gorton is well familiar with since he was part of it in Boston. But that strategy is going to mean acquiring a LOT of good first line players across age groups. We have the late-20's covered with Zibanejad, Panarin, and Kreider. We have a good start with the young-20's in Kravtsov, Chytil and Kakko.

What I'm saying is I think we need a couple more in that mold (Kravtsov/Chytil/Kakko) for the next decade. Gorton is the ultimate decider, but since he's not part of this conversation, and it's you and me and the people on this board, there's legit debate.

I think we have some ways to go to remake our forwards to be insulated for the long haul.

I'm all-in on the long haul and I don't think it's quite time to put the pedal to the floor yet. I certainly do not want to be making any more decisions sacrificing future for present as the Kreider signing kind of was. We have enough "present" to adequately grow the future. Now is the time to keep investing in that future.
 
no one is saying stop drafting. no one is saying dont fill the pipeline.

all im saying is use the picks and players we have to fill in this roster. same as always. but lets also move this thing along.

im not buying for one second the notion that we need to keep "rebuilding". you are always technically rebuilding i guess but once we resigned #20 for 7 more years, and having bread and mika and now shesty in place, its time to focus on the next phase. playoffs. and that means improving the roster now.

we arent selling assets now. we arent sending a letter to the fans anymore. time to improve what we have for next season.

no one is saying return to signing expensive FA's like the dark old days. not gonna happen.

lets move this thing along. were close but saying "stay the course" and saying "we arent close yet" is disingenuous.

disagree.

we can play with anyone right now when we play our game. can we win a 7 games series with this roster against boston ? thats a no. right now.

next year, no reason we cant if we make some changes.

again, no one is saying abandon drafting or stop adding assets.

im saying lets consider packaging some assets for a player who can help us win next year and in the future. its not just adding prospects via the draft.

lets rebuild with more deals like gauthier and lemme
Agreed, with the most recent TDL in the rearview mirror, we are now in the "rationalize the assets phase." I would implore them not to mortgage the future by trading away picks the way that Slats did in the first half of the 2010s – need to keep backfilling cheap talent as the team/players get better – but moving players from positions of strength to shore up positions of weakness, and dealing prospects for other prospects/young players, should be the M.O. moving forward.
 
Sorry bud, I’m not trading Kratvsov or Lundkvist for a prospect who’s further along. I honestly wouldn’t trade Buch or Strome unless the other team is sending someone of equal value or someone with a chance to shine if given the right opportunity (ie Lemieux, DeAngelo, Gauthier) in return with the pick.
I'm not talking about giving them away. If there's someone they're enamored with, I'd be willing to pay the cost. Obviously within reason.

I view it as asset management. You can't keep everything, there's just not enough space on the roster. How many top6 forwards can we ice? How many RHD? Use the strengths to fill weaknesses or to get an equal/greater value but at a later return date. Keep the ball and talent rolling into the system
 
We have enough ammo.

I'm not convinced that we do, but I hope so.

Again, if we could pull off another Buch-for-top-10 pick scenario, even adding to it, and get a guy like Holtz or Rossi, I'd be over the moon.

I desperately want this team to get one more top-line carrying type before closing the door on the rebuilding phase.
 
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