Prospect Info: 2020 Draft #111 - Mitchell Miller (RHD) [Mod Warning post #312]

[rt]

Why be calm and collected about things when we can victim blame on behalf of a 4th round pick.

You guys are arguing against some issue that has nothing to do with what I’m saying. Whoever you’re mad at, isn’t me.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

You guys are arguing against some issue that has nothing to do with what I’m saying. Whoever you’re mad at, isn’t me.

I'm not even mad. I'm just extremely skeptical about the whole situation.

 

[YotesFan47]

I feel like this is a better conversation to have in a bar with a few beers and facial expressions lol.

I think we all agree that what this kid did was awful. I also think we all agree that he was young and deserves a second chance. It seems like the point of contention is if the Coyotes should be the team giving that second chance which at this point does not matter because we are that team.

Is that an agreeable baseline for Miller?

 

[rt]

Well I guess I totally underestimated the cartwheels people will do for a kid who hasn't earned it.

You're nuts. I haven't defended him. I've said the worst explanation is probably the most likely. I'm also saying anyone acting like they know are full of shit. We know nothing. That's me and you.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I feel like this is a better conversation to have in a bar with a few beers and facial expressions lol.

I think we all agree that what this kid did was awful. I also think we all agree that he was young and deserves a second chance. It seems like the point of contention is if the Coyotes should be the team giving that second chance which at this point does not matter because we are that team.

Is that an agreeable baseline for Miller?

Yes, absolutely.

What the team needs to do is keep a close eye, not just on the player, but on his support system. They may not want to drag this into the public eye, but behind the scenes if they're not doing some significant due diligence both with Miller and his family, agents, and other enablers, they expose themselves to potential future issues. Not just by how the player performs, but also in how he handles his business with the club, whether it will damage his status as an asset if the team elects to move on from him, etc.

You'd hope the team does that with every prospect (and I'm not sure they have, particularly during the lean years when staffing was low), but doubly so here because of how public the gamble is.

 

[rt]

I feel like this is a better conversation to have in a bar with a few beers and facial expressions lol.

I think we all agree that what this kid did was awful. I also think we all agree that he was young and deserves a second chance. It seems like the point of contention is if the Coyotes should be the team giving that second chance which at this point does not matter because we are that team.

Is that an agreeable baseline for Miller?

Yep. All of that.

 

[Heldig]

Makes me feel slightly better about it. Still, to justify the selection they have to be pretty sure he's a couple of tiers above the rest.

I was reading a prospect thread and some scouts had him rated 1st round level talent but too much a risk due to his history.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I feel like this is a better conversation to have in a bar with a few beers and facial expressions lol.

I think we all agree that what this kid did was awful. I also think we all agree that he was young and deserves a second chance. It seems like the point of contention is if the Coyotes should be the team giving that second chance which at this point does not matter because we are that team.

Is that an agreeable baseline for Miller?

That is fair. Just seems like these days, there is so much information on these players, and frankly, character does still count.

If I had a kid at Phoenix Children's Hospital, as an example, is that the role model that I would want my kid to say that they want to be like?

Compare that to someone like Weisblatt. That kid recognizes the struggle that his mom went through, and one could argue that he would have every reason to want to act the same way if he heard someone disparaging his mom for being deaf, as an example. To me, that is the type of player whom I will likely be able to count on and trust. Miller? Just yikes.

 

[YotesFan47]

That is fair. Just seems like these days, there is so much information on these players, and frankly, character does still count.

If I had a kid at Phoenix Children's Hospital, as an example, is that the role model that I would want my kid to say that they want to be like?

Compare that to someone like Weisblatt. That kid recognizes the struggle that his mom went through, and one could argue that he would have every reason to want to act the same way if he heard someone disparaging his mom for being deaf, as an example. To me, that is the type of player whom I will likely be able to count on and trust. Miller? Just yikes.

For sure, but there absolutely has to be perspective. If I had a "gf" at 13 years old and we got into a fight, I'd have resorted to things like mockery, name calling, and general belittlement. As an adult with a fiance, I'll get loud but I try to never actively create dispair for that person. I try to stick to the points of disagreement and work towards an amicable solution despite my frustrations.

I just can't "execute" a kid at such a young age for this mistake. He's got so much growth ahead of him and could have a fantastic heart, he may have just ended up on the wrong path briefly where he did something horrible to someone. As an adult there is no excuse for that type of behavior but as a kid, he just needs to be taught.

This feels very much like a we need Doan situation where he could be part of the support system.

Bottom line, I was a shit role model when I was younger but now I'm so much more and love that I get to be a role model for my sons. This kid has a chance to change, let's give it to him.

 

[BUX7PHX]

For sure, but there absolutely has to be perspective. If I had a "gf" at 13 years old and we got into a fight, I'd have resorted to things like mockery, name calling, and general belittlement. As an adult with a fiance, I'll get loud but I try to never actively create dispair for that person. I try to stick to the points of disagreement and work towards an amicable solution despite my frustrations.

I just can't "execute" a kid at such a young age for this mistake. He's got so much growth ahead of him and could have a fantastic heart, he may have just ended up on the wrong path briefly where he did something horrible to someone. As an adult there is no excuse for that type of behavior but as a kid, he just needs to be taught.

This feels very much like a we need Doan situation where he could be part of the support system.

I dunno.

Yelling at someone vs. taking an item of food, putting it on a urinal cake and then making the kid eat it.

There are lines, but that is a pretty demented f***ing thing to do. At 14, I would like to think that someone knows better.

 

[YotesFan47]

I dunno.

Yelling at someone vs. taking an item of food, putting it on a urinal cake and then making the kid eat it.

There are lines, but that is a pretty demented f***ing thing to do. At 14, I would like to think that someone knows better.

It is messed up, I never did what he did so I have no ability to compair my own life to his on a level that could be widely accepted. I just can't look at a kid and see evil when more often than not, it's a matter of education.

 

[BUX7PHX]

It is messed up, I never did what he did so I have no ability to compair my own life to his on a level that could be widely accepted. I just can't look at a kid and see evil when more often than not, it's a matter of education.

I understand you probably don't mean education in the way that I am about to use it, but Theodore Kazynski (however you spell the Unabomber's last name) I believe was an astrophysicist or math genius. Ted Bundy went to law school, but he also exhibited behavior at a young age that was questionable.

I am using education way too literally here, as I assume you are also saying education in right from wrong, but that is what the conscience is for. If something wrong is done to you, do unto others type of thing. If your goal is to inflict pain or hurt on anyone else who damages you or your psyche, your life will be pretty incomplete...

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Kids do make mistakes and bad decisions, but this wasn't either. Most 'shitheads' won't even cross that line. I believe there's something mentally wrong with someone like that, and you don't outgrow it. I just don't qualify What he did as a thing of immaturity. Very disappointed that he's a part of the organization.

 

[YotesFan47]

I understand you probably don't mean education in the way that I am about to use it, but Theodore Kazynski (however you spell the Unabomber's last name) I believe was an astrophysicist or math genius. Ted Bundy went to law school, but he also exhibited behavior at a young age that was questionable.

I am using education way too literally here, as I assume you are also saying education in right from wrong, but that is what the conscience is for. If something wrong is done to you, do unto others type of thing. If your goal is to inflict pain or hurt on anyone else who damages you or your psyche, your life will be pretty incomplete...

Yea I mean it in right from wrong and why. If we look at history, there were brutal societal norms where mentally/physically challenged people, gender and social status played a part in what newborns were thrown off cliffs. I know this is an extreme but it was normal for that society at that time.

Not saying Miller grew up in a brutal society but we don't know what his family said behind closed doors.

Miller may inherently have a lower threshold of empathy which means education is king.

I'm sure you've also seen/heard of the studies where high ranking people exhibit similar psychopathy to the Bundys and Kazynskis without actively trying to hurt people. There are levels and Miller may fall on that spectrum. Again, education is king here.

All this doesn't mean he isn't a clown, it just means he has a chance to be a good person with his own set of semi unique problems. If we take the time to assess Miller, put an action plan together that he's on board with, and execute that plan than we may end up with a pretty good kid who needed help and got it.

 

[YotesFan47]

I should probably mention, I have a bleeding heart for kids. All too often they are screwed because adults who should know better didn't seek out help. So much starts at home and children are abused without ever knowing it. It breaks my heart because it's our job to help them grow. We should be actively helping them be better than us.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I should probably mention, I have a bleeding heart for kids. All too often they are screwed because adults who should know better didn't seek out help. So much starts at home and children are abused without ever knowing it. It breaks my heart because it's our job to help them grow. We should be actively helping them be better than us.

I get it. When I was coaching, I had one kid that I just couldn't figure out what his story was. His brothers were nice, kind of smart-alecky, but not in a way that would get them in trouble. Fairly stable home life, from what I knew. But for whatever reason, the kid was just non compliant and angry about EVERYTHING.

I took him out of a game one time after a very innocuous penalty (lacrosse). Play was on the other side of the offensive box and the kid he was guarding ran kind of past him to where his stick hit the kids helmet. Far away from the play, but the ref called it. It was really nothing that should have been called. I was trying to tell him not to worry about it, and he storms off the field, and starts packing up stuff. My assistant asks what he is doing and he called my assistant some name, and then tried to take a swing at him. 10 years old.

I took him aside the next day and told him that I wasn't upset at the play, thought ref made a poor call, but i was upset with how he handled things afterwards and tried to walk him through what I did not appreciate about his reaction. Nothing out of the ordinary, the kid just happened to not know how to control emotion and anger. Over the smallest of things too. Sometimes, there isn't enough to go around to help the kid. Let's just say that I have strong doubts about this one.

 

[YotesFan47]

I get it. When I was coaching, I had one kid that I just couldn't figure out what his story was. His brothers were nice, kind of smart-alecky, but not in a way that would get them in trouble. Fairly stable home life, from what I knew. But for whatever reason, the kid was just non compliant and angry about EVERYTHING.

I took him out of a game one time after a very innocuous penalty (lacrosse). Play was on the other side of the offensive box and the kid he was guarding ran kind of past him to where his stick hit the kids helmet. Far away from the play, but the ref called it. It was really nothing that should have been called. I was trying to tell him not to worry about it, and he storms off the field, and starts packing up stuff. My assistant asks what he is doing and he called my assistant some name, and then tried to take a swing at him. 10 years old.

I took him aside the next day and told him that I wasn't upset at the play, thought ref made a poor call, but i was upset with how he handled things afterwards and tried to walk him through what I did not appreciate about his reaction. Nothing out of the ordinary, the kid just happened to not know how to control emotion and anger. Over the smallest of things too. Sometimes, there isn't enough to go around to help the kid. Let's just say that I have strong doubts about this one.

See but you did the right thing. A lot of people would have brushed it off and never said a word, or even reacted poorly and tried to control the kid rather than talk to him about it. I hope that moment was a lesson for him that helped him be better.

Miller could probably use those lessons. I'll judge his character as a more complete person when he's 22+ and if necessary has received treatment for any chemical imbalances.

Until then he was just a dumb kid making a dumb choice that was left uncorrected for 6 years.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

This feels very much like a we need Doan situation where he could be part of the support system.

If we had Doan around, I'd feel much, much better about things.

Problem is, we don't. Nobody even close. I know he's a hard act to follow, but hopefully part of GMBA's culture change includes getting someone about 70-80% of Doan in here as a captain.

 

[nmburkholder]

Not condoning what the kid did because it is really messed up, but US hockey did a lot of back ground checks on the kid and they have him the ok, and so did North Dakota really went through and did a lot of research and gave him the ok.

he was a kid (still is a kid for that matter), people make mistakes it’s part of life, but you can’t put a red x on a kid forever, people do grow and he might be remorseful. It’s one thing if the kid was doing this everyday then I’d say or have him on a do not draft list, but these programs went through and spent time and resources checking out his background and gave him the thumbs up, and so did the organization so I trust their judgements because they have actual skin in the game

 

[Name Nameless]

Sometimes people do bad things. So, he has been punished in the system. How long are the world going to talk about it? Sadly, I can imagine people drafted before him have done worse, but they just never got caught. Don't get me wrong when I say this: of course that was disgusting.

But I don't think it is right to give out additional punishment. It seems he has said the right thing when it has been brought up. If he has paid his dues or whatever you call it, at some stage it's right to say it's done.

And to repeat myself: just because that judge said he wasn't sure he regretted it, doesn't mean he really didn't regret it. And for the right reasons. To go around and say "oh, we don't believe him when he said he regretted it" is so incredible taboo for me.

 

[MIGs Dog]

I'm glad my employer doesn't know about everything in my past. Did some stuff I'm not proud of. No felonies (as far as I know).

 

[The Feckless Puck]

If the kid can keep his inner douche at bay sufficiently that he doesn't get back into the news, then great.

 

[TheLegend]

If the kid can keep his inner douche at bay sufficiently that he doesn't get back into the news, then great.

At this point..... what he did four years ago doesn't matter because he's ours right now. We don't have t forget it.... but we're going to have to judge him on what he does going forward.

 

[Sm00chy]

AZ Central has an article on this pick and the story: Arizona Coyotes top draft pick bullied Black disabled kid 4 years ago

Interesting note from the Yotes:
“Given our priorities on diversity and inclusion, we believe that we are in the best position to guide Mitchell into becoming a leader for this cause and preventing bullying and racism now and in the future. As an organization, we have made our expectations very clear to him. We are willing to work with Mitchell and put in the time, effort, and energy and provide him with the necessary resources and platform to confront bullying and racism. This isn’t a story about excuses or justifications. It’s a story about reflection, growth, and community impact. A true leader finds ways for every person to contribute to the solution. We all need to be a part of the solution.”

They seem to be viewing Mitchell as a project on and off the ice that they want to fix. If you can work with him and turn around his character and view on the world, then great....but he should not be allowed in the locker room until you 100% believe he is a changed person.

 

[LuckyNumber11]

I’m just annoyed that Azcentral is just now coming out with this hit piece. Like why did this take a couple weeks for you to have this take. Don’t get me wrong, they deserve this hit piece because this is an annoying pick. But why did the righteousness from azcentral take weeks to heat up to this