Prospect Info: 2020 Draft #111 - Mitchell Miller (RHD) [Mod Warning post #312]

[The Feckless Puck]

Damn, you really do interpret what you read as you see fit don't you?

Explain yourself better, so that there is less danger of misinterpretation. For instance, if you're not talking about his hockey skill, what else does Mitchell Miller objectively possess that would be an asset to the Coyotes?

 

[rt]

Not at all. He could have made peace with the family, volunteered more, been more forthright with teams. There's plenty he could have done.

It seems like your mind was already made up given the comments about people disavowing bullying on twitter as simply "chasing social credit." I think you're drafting these kids into a culture war when it's not relevant at all. Miller is simply not a run of the mill offender, and has not put in the necessary post incident work expected of him.

Since draft day? LOL. Is he a wizard? You have magical standards.

As for social credits, I’m talking about morons online. None of the actual humans actually involved. And you already knew that.

As for my mind being made up, I don’t know how many times I can state that I have no idea if he’s reformed and the odds are as good he’s not. I’ve stated that at least 20 times in this thread. Which, of course, you already knew.

 

[rt]

What Miller did was reprehensible.
Lynch mob mentality should never be encouraged.
I think both of these statements are true.

Thanks. I should have just waited for this instead of posting 10x a day in this thread.

 

[Jakey53]

It seems to me that most people want revenge rather than justice. It seems to me that most people actually DONT want Miller to become a good person who uses his privilege to be a force of good.

It seems most people only want to see vengeance be done. It’s not social justice it’s simple wrath. This is societal decay. Mercy and forgiveness have become the dirtiest of words. It’s gross.

Having said all of that, Mitch Miller probably does suck and probably still is an asshole. Lol.

I agree with everything you say but we should not assume he sucks or is an asshole.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Explain yourself better, so that there is less danger of misinterpretation. For instance, if you're not talking about his hockey skill, what else does Mitchell Miller objectively possess that would be an asset to the Coyotes?

I just stay on topic and don’t let any bias enter my process. You should try it.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I just stay on topic and don’t let any bias enter my process. You should try it.

So should you.

 

[Name Nameless]

Congrats Progressive World , you have now bullied a kid 4 years after he was convicted of being a disgusting bully. Give yourself a pat on the back. If he offs himself more than a few adults should be looking at their mirror.

Yeah, and the main argument was he didn't apologize in person. After he was ordered to not talk to victim again.

I can see a problem with that.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

“We are taking a player in the fourth round who committed wrong and disgusting acts against a handicapped child when the player was 14. He has paid his dues and fulfilled his court ordered obligations.

As a young adult our player fully understands the magnitude of what he did as a 14 year old and is very remorseful. The Coyotes organization is giving him a chance for a new start and a chance for redemption. We will remain vigilant and expect our player to maintain exemplary behavior. We have impressed upon him that there are no third chances. “

Had the Coyotes released this at the start the entire fiasco might have been avoided.

 

[GhostofTommyBolin]

He's officially no longer part of the UND hockey team.

 

[rt]

“We are taking a player in the fourth round who committed wrong and disgusting acts against a handicapped child when the player was 14. He has paid his dues and fulfilled his court ordered obligations.

As a young adult our player fully understands the magnitude of what he did as a 14 year old and is very remorseful. The Coyotes organization is giving him a chance for a new start and a chance for redemption. We will remain vigilant and expect our player to maintain exemplary behavior. We have impressed upon him that there are no third chances. “

Had the Coyotes released this at the start the entire fiasco might have been avoided.

Really what seemed to perk up the MC family was the miscategorization of the harassment and assault as a single event. If they’d got out in front of it and ALSO avoided attempts to minimize what happened, the MC family may not have pushed back.

 

[Summer Rose]

I hope Miller does eventually redeem himself, if only for the sake of having one less sociopath in the world. Whether I'm glad it's not going to be with the Coyotes is no longer relevant, since it's not. I hope also that during our internal review we can find out who was responsible for the pick and get rid of him (I wouldn't go so far as someone earlier saying they hope that person never works as a scout again though).

@rt put it best much earlier in the thread:

"75% of people were disgusted because the Coyotes drafted Miller, while 25% respected the notion that the team was willing to take the heat to work with a kid they believed in, and to do the hard work to truly stand up for their principals...

...then...

100% of people are now disgusted by the Coyotes actions. The 75% didn't move an inch and the 25% now sees them for the lying, self-serving, callous, opportunistic cowards that they really are."

This is probably the most upset I've been at the Coyotes in my lifetime as a fan. It's one thing to be embarrassed to be a fan because we suck on the ice (maybe I'm just used to it being an Arizona sports fan in general). It's another thing to be embarrassed to be a fan because of things off the ice.

 

[tuxonpups]

Hey, the Coyotes drafted a player from my home town! And it's a super long discussion for a 4th rounder, even it is our 1st... oh... yeah ok, that tracks.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Ultimately, I think the thing that is yhe bigger burn is that we had just changed around quite a bit of staff. I understand Armstrong being limited, but this is not the needed impression.

 

[CLW]

I hope Miller does eventually redeem himself, if only for the sake of having one less sociopath in the world. Whether I'm glad it's not going to be with the Coyotes is no longer relevant, since it's not. I hope also that during our internal review we can find out who was responsible for the pick and get rid of him (I wouldn't go so far as someone earlier saying they hope that person never works as a scout again though).

@rt put it best much earlier in the thread:

"75% of people were disgusted because the Coyotes drafted Miller, while 25% respected the notion that the team was willing to take the heat to work with a kid they believed in, and to do the hard work to truly stand up for their principals...

...then...

100% of people are now disgusted by the Coyotes actions. The 75% didn't move an inch and the 25% now sees them for the lying, self-serving, callous, opportunistic cowards that they really are."

This is probably the most upset I've been at the Coyotes in my lifetime as a fan. It's one thing to be embarrassed to be a fan because we suck on the ice (maybe I'm just used to it being an Arizona sports fan in general). It's another thing to be embarrassed to be a fan because of things off the ice.

I agree, especially with the last paragraph. This whole thing is sickening to me and it came at a very bad time for the franchise. I'm still facepalming at the stupidity behind the pick.

I'll leave this alone now, like I did immediately after the pick, and let things fall as they may after the internal review. I hope leadership can come to a real resolution this time. No spin or half-measures allowed, finding a scapegoat or two to throw to the wolves won't cut it. If XG and BA were involved in some way full disclosure is a must.

I remember when Craig Janney was the Coyotes' 1st line center. This franchise hasn't moved an inch, or the needle, for 25 years. Can we now have PROFESSIONALS in charge, for once? Fire them all if you have to. GMBA came in talking a big game, this crap reflects badly on his leadership as well. He needs to sort it out in a manner that regains respect for the leadership of the franchise.

As XX said, the franchise needs to come out on the straight and narrow after this. If they fail yet again to put things right then what's the point with it all.

 

[Canis Latrans]

I can live with that. I'll buy the drinks, you buy the donuts!

Would you stop talking about donuts!? They legitimately cannot make a proper donut in Australia. Instead we get miniature cakes that they overfrost and douse with candy. Abominations. I haven't had a real donut in years.

 

[TheLegend]

I think we can all agree the optics of this affair are worse than any of the cluster****s Anthony LeBlanc dreamed up.

But we can also agree the team went into the draft with a patchwork’d staff and it wasn’t a good situation. XX and rt (and also Del I think) all predicted something bad could happen beforehand and it ended up being worse.

At this point I’m looking to see if they are forthcoming with what caused Miller to end up back on the list when he was off of it as far back as June.

 

[Canis Latrans]

I don't see think Miller is even close to the stage where the Coyotes could have helped him by trying to mentor him. Firstly, he's several rungs down the ladder hockey development-wise from where they could have regular interactions with him, so it'd be out of place were they to be giving some one years out from potentially making the team more attention than any of the much closer prospects. Secondly, because he would have somewhat already have made it into reach of the Coyotes by them having drafted him, he may not take his present teams as strongly as building blocks to earn his place at the next level up, but rather just as stops along his path. Because of his history, he doesn't get to take the same development path afforded to others. I think the Coyotes can help mentor players in situations somewhat similar to this, but their profile needs to be further along towards redemption before the Coyotes start working with them, and the player needs to be much closer to being ready to play professional level hockey. He's going to need to go through many more incremental steps than others, but the Coyotes cannot reasonably expect to guide him on the first step of the first set of stairs in a multi-story building.

 

[CLW]

I think we can all agree the optics of this affair are worse than any of the cluster****s Anthony LeBlanc dreamed up.

But we can also agree the team went into the draft with a patchwork’d staff and it wasn’t a good situation. XX and rt (and also Del I think) all predicted something bad could happen beforehand and it ended up being worse.

At this point I’m looking to see if they are forthcoming with what caused Miller to end up back on the list when he was off of it as far back as June.

If he was off the list, but came back on it, then someone made that decision.

Nothing but a full disclosure is good enough for me. They tried to make us eat a shit sandwich by pushing Miller as an acceptable pick. That's just real cute.

 

[Jagged Ice]

I'm sure his days as a hockey player are behind him. Especially in this day and age. What if his name was Alexis Lafrenière though?

 

[Jakey53]

I'm sure his days as a hockey player are behind him. Especially in this day and age. What if his name was Alexis Lafrenière though?

He would have on every single teams list and picked 1OA.

 

[rt]

I'm sure his days as a hockey player are behind him. Especially in this day and age. What if his name was Alexis Lafrenière though?

If he were Canadian none of this would be public record. Anyway, I really doubt his days as a hockey player are over. I’m sure he could go back to Tri-City. If he’s easily the best D in the entire USHL next season, and he keeps his nose clean yet again, and maybe becomes more involved in anti bullying, I’m sure an OHL team will give him a shot. Then he’s right back on track.

 

[RemoAZ]

No doubt he will become an all-star in 5 years with another team. That's Coyotes luck.

 

[Dead Coyote]

I will tap out with this thought. What Miller did was despicable and he was rightly tried,convicted, abd sentenced. What the woke world is doing to Miller is only marginally better. And let's not forget he was 14 then and only 18 now. The same folks who have their pitchforks out now would March in the street to protest the adult 3 strikes law.

"Criticizing someone for bashing someone's skull in, years of both physical and mental abuse, and not showing any remorse in front of a Judge or to his victim and not wanting that individual to be a millionaire and in the Arizona Coyotes organization is only marginally better than the acts performed by said individual"

Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words on an internet forum a million miles away from ever reaching the individual are only marginally better.

 

[Dead Coyote]

No I’m not calling them a liar. They are expressing now that they weren’t satisfied with the apology they received. Miller doesn’t have a time machine. So...

I feel my comments there are still consistent. If I saw the McKie kid give an impact statement, and the MCs seemed receptive, I’d absolutely try to arrange one for Miller too.

But what’s the context? McKie isn’t viewed more positively by the victims solely for his statement. It’s due mostly to a previous friendship with IMC.

It’s possible and not unlikely that the previous personal relationship played a role not only in McKie’s feeling welcome to give the apology statement but in the MCs receptiveness to that statement. These factors may not apply to Miller. Who was, it seems, exclusively in IMCs life simply to torture him.

But I already said all of that in the part of my post you intentionally cut out to quote just the bit that if framed properly makes me seem like I’m waffling. Which I’m not.

That's absolutely not true. JMC views McKie better because he went out of his way to go above and beyond and showed true remorse. A friendship years in the past didn't have much at all to do with it.

 

[Dead Coyote]

JMC and their family have lived their lives normally since the incident. I'm not sure where this idea of them being a lynch mob comes from. They interviewed and gave a statement to ARZ Republic, and wrote a letter about the Coyotes pick. That's about it. There's exactly one post about it on her twitter, and no posts about it on her Facebook. With 7 kids I think she might be a little too busy to spend all day on Twitter.

As far as I'm aware, ARZ Republic is the only organization to have actually contacted and interviewed her. I'm inclined to trust what that articles says more.