Axl Rhoadz
Binky distributor
- Apr 5, 2011
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Just stay the plan....we really gonna have 3 players on the team making 10+ million dollars/year?
Speculation: 2020-21 News/Rumors/Roster Thread Part IV
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Iafallo is a pending UFA, Buffafo can just sign him if they want him. He holds zero value for them at the moment.
cyclones22
Registered User
I'm on the no side of the fence. A team doesn't go from consecutive bottom 5 finishes to the playoffs on the strength of adding one player. It's on the strength of the core players, culture and buy-in. The team is developing that right now. Our 2012 team had been trending up for 3 consecutive seasons before taking the plunge and cashing in the assets. I'm not about upsetting that apple cart. The team is about 1 or 2 seasons away from making that move.
I like Eichel and if the FO makes the move, I won't cry about it depending on what goes the other way. But will there be enough left over to emulate the Cup teams? At 24, Kopitar was a better player than Eichel is now. So he's your Kopitar replacement and current Kopitar slides into the Richards slot until he ages into Stoll's slot. Who is the Carter replacement? Are people forgetting that he averaged 27 goals a season his first 5 seasons in LA? 27 year old Dustin Brown? His numbers declined after 2012 under Sutter, but it's obvious that was on Sutter in retrospect. How about Justin Williams? We're talking about Doughty just entering his dominance and we're talking top 2 defender in the league for almost a decade dominance. Quick at his full powers. Those lineups were ridiculous looking back.
The point is that one player isn't transforming this lineup. It's going to take a lot more than that. You're doing a lot of projecting as it is on the prospects even with Eichel in the mix. Well, Byfield/Turcotte likely will not be as good as Eichel is the argument, yet you're putting your eggs in the basket that Vilardi, Kaliyev, Madden, Kupari, et al are going to turn into Carter, Williams, Brown, etc and quickly. It's too early in the rebuilt and Eichel is not a transformative player. The caveat is if you can get him for a steal and I'm not even sure what that is.
I like Eichel and if the FO makes the move, I won't cry about it depending on what goes the other way. But will there be enough left over to emulate the Cup teams? At 24, Kopitar was a better player than Eichel is now. So he's your Kopitar replacement and current Kopitar slides into the Richards slot until he ages into Stoll's slot. Who is the Carter replacement? Are people forgetting that he averaged 27 goals a season his first 5 seasons in LA? 27 year old Dustin Brown? His numbers declined after 2012 under Sutter, but it's obvious that was on Sutter in retrospect. How about Justin Williams? We're talking about Doughty just entering his dominance and we're talking top 2 defender in the league for almost a decade dominance. Quick at his full powers. Those lineups were ridiculous looking back.
The point is that one player isn't transforming this lineup. It's going to take a lot more than that. You're doing a lot of projecting as it is on the prospects even with Eichel in the mix. Well, Byfield/Turcotte likely will not be as good as Eichel is the argument, yet you're putting your eggs in the basket that Vilardi, Kaliyev, Madden, Kupari, et al are going to turn into Carter, Williams, Brown, etc and quickly. It's too early in the rebuilt and Eichel is not a transformative player. The caveat is if you can get him for a steal and I'm not even sure what that is.
Adding to your point, I'd much rather see us spend our cap space first to help build up whatever Dream the FO is trying to realize than move our kids at this moment. At worse, our monies will land us some valuable middle 6 guys while allowing us to evaluate which kids are ready, which need more time and/or which kids we can move out in a package for that star we seek...
Rumpelstiltskin
Serial Ruminator
I vacillate on adding Eichel, but there's a sub-element I'm curious about: I wonder if Buffalo would at all be interested in Brown as part of the return? Yeah, I get that he's (by NHL standards) old and declining and fairly expensive (albeit his contract doesn't last a terribly long time from now), but he's a local guy that can still score and captained two 'chip teams, and from what I've read that team desperately needs all the plus-leadership it can get. Totally acknowledge he won't be anything close to the centerpiece of a prospective trade (kinda' funny to consider someone with his pedigree and current salary a "throw-in," but that's essentially what he'd be), but maybe Buffalo is one of the few teams that might actually want his services for a couple of years...?
Only one thing ur totally missing is the production of the replacement players Your version has 3 players getting no points at all. I also don't see 150 points from thoses 4 players Totally unrealistic imo
KingLB
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2008
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I’m so confused by this line of reasoning. Can players not develop on winning teams? Will Anderson and Bjornfot and Faber and Grans etc etc all the sudden stop development because the Kings have the second best 1/2 punch in the game?
Could wingers like AK and Madden and Kupari (he becomes a wing in this scenario) not hit their peaks playing with a 2 top 10 centers in the league?!?
KingLB
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- Oct 29, 2008
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Bingo, and that is the advantage the Kings have with the deep cupboard. Kempe’s out, replaced with Kupari/Madden/Thomas/AK. Net the Kings probably turn 150 pts to 180 pts with Eichel.
Peter James Bond II
"Man, we were right there" - De-Luc-sional
- Mar 5, 2015
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I agree, 100%. It's like the Kings, when they traded Carson, Gelinas, 3 1st rounders and 15 million cash for Gretzky. The Kings were a worse team than they are today, when they did that deal. It helped, getting McSorley and Krushelnyski
in the deal. But, the Kings didn't have anyone to play with Gretzky....just Luc and Nichols. Krushelnyski helped some. Adding Kurri was big and then dealing Nichols for Granato and Sandstrom, gave Wayne good wingers to play with.
The Kings had terrible prospects and lost 3 1st rounders, to boot! Carson and Gelinas were 19 and 18 yrs old. They had NO future incoming talent and a bad roster, to boot.
The current Kings are not a bottom 5 team. It's not a fluke, they are 8-6-3 and the last 10+ games last year, they were winning. Plans change, when special opportunities arise. It's like having $25,000 in savings and
seeing Bitcoin when it was at $4,500 (early 2020) and saying 'that's too pricey for my plan, so I will have to adhere to the plan and wait for the next bitcoin' Good luck, finding the next Bitcoin, as 1 yr later,
JP Morgan and Musk are buying and it's $58,000. That train left. Sure, it's dropped to $49,000, so then sell and make 10x your investment, or sell what you put in, so you have no loss.
Giving up 2 top prospects, 1 roster player, 1 next level prospect and a #1 or even 2 #1's....for an Eichel at 24 yrs of age, opportunity comes around less than once every 5 years. Or never. The Kings had a worse roster
at the time of the Gretzky deal and ZERO elite prospects and lost 3 #1 picks. YES, they did not win the Cup, but came close in 93. I still do that trade. Gretzky was 27. Eichel is not Gretzky, but he's an elite player
at 24. It's not like he's 29 and cannot be part of the incoming youth. Does Eichel make the Kings a contender? Most would say no, but I say it's possible. ..and if not, they will certainly make the playoffs.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Sure are an assload of metaphors around here lately!
Eichel is no Gretzky. The Kings traded for Carson at age 24 and his best days were already behind him. Eichel probably peaked last year with his 15.9 shooting percentage against his career normal 8-10 percent. Eichel is just 44% on faceoffs in his career. He only has 2 more point than Iaffalo playing 20 minutes a game. Eichel would get less minutes in LA so less production. Players tend to produce less when traded to LA so his 72 point for a full season projection for this year turns into maybe 55-60 points. If he gets married and has kids, does his production drop down into the 40s? Plus, he might screw up team chemistry like when the Coyotes traded for Hall last year. No thanks.
apocalypse
Dean Lombardi's Yes Man
I think he is a top player in the league. If Byfeild becomes Eichel than LA is really really fortunate.
bland
Registered User
- Jul 1, 2004
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Okay, let's extrapolate:
Byfield/Turcotte - 60 conservativelyy
Iafallo - 50, Kempe 35-40
Walker - 30
1st round pick - depends on the position, but you think 10 is unrealistic?
And by your logic you wouldn't be subtracting the points earned by the player who would have Eichel's role either. Eichel gets 90, Byfield or Turcotte get 60, you are only gaining 30 points.
The players likely to replace Byfield/Turcotte, Iafallo/Kempe and Walker would either be even younger players who will take longer to mature or you using more cap space on free agents or more assets on vetetans.
It's a net loss no matter how you look at it.
Byfield /turcotte are a couple years from getting 60 Hell you can give them > 10 because there not in the nhl right now I'll give u kempe and iafallo
walker is maybe 25 max in a good year His pp time will be going to clague and/ a forward on the point. Our pp is doing well without him.
Again a 1st pick is years away from production You cant count anything from someone not even playing nhl games.
The only point of cap space is spacing it wisely so whatever about that ur trying to mislead this convo.
Jason Squirties
Registered User
- Apr 15, 2014
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I'm not on board in theory but I can be convinced if the package is right, I'm just not seeing it.
we are spending too much time on it given if Buffalo even moves him it likely won't be till the offseason, and even then remote chance it is LA he gets moved to
It is just something to talk about before the game. A new subject in this forum is always welcome imo. I do agree thou its not likely going to happen in season
apocalypse
Dean Lombardi's Yes Man
You dont trade anything this season. This season is a small sample size of opponents.
The package it would take to get eichel would be a minimum of kempe/vilardi + byfield/turcotte + 1st round pick. Minimum package. They might want another prospect so throw in madden/kaliyev. That's too much to give up for one player.
The road to the cup within the next couple years will go through edm and col. We need speed. what speed do we have on the roster? Carter, brown, kempe, aa, iafallo. When carter and brown are done we'll need to replace them with speed to get past these teams. Turcotte and byfield are that speed. Along with madden and kupari. you sell the farm and you lose speed not to mention skill. And for eichel? You could get an eichel like player in pacioretty or even a toffoli, cough cough. Kopitars good for another couple years hell jagr is still playing and he's 48. Give the team time to gel and then assess at that point. We dont need an eichel type trade. We are good down the middle with Kopitar and vilardi. vilardi will only get better and become a 60 point guy. Byfield? Who knows. Possibly generational talent.
The package it would take to get eichel would be a minimum of kempe/vilardi + byfield/turcotte + 1st round pick. Minimum package. They might want another prospect so throw in madden/kaliyev. That's too much to give up for one player.
The road to the cup within the next couple years will go through edm and col. We need speed. what speed do we have on the roster? Carter, brown, kempe, aa, iafallo. When carter and brown are done we'll need to replace them with speed to get past these teams. Turcotte and byfield are that speed. Along with madden and kupari. you sell the farm and you lose speed not to mention skill. And for eichel? You could get an eichel like player in pacioretty or even a toffoli, cough cough. Kopitars good for another couple years hell jagr is still playing and he's 48. Give the team time to gel and then assess at that point. We dont need an eichel type trade. We are good down the middle with Kopitar and vilardi. vilardi will only get better and become a 60 point guy. Byfield? Who knows. Possibly generational talent.
King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
- Jul 1, 2003
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No, but the Kings don't need to boost their center depth. Why trade away key pieces in weaker positions, with assets we're still trying to get NHL ready, to be a slightly better team now?
Again. Why are we enduring years of suckage just to trade away core future pieces away the moment the Kings aren't dropping in the standings?
KingLB
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2008
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Again where would we get weaker? Kings are absolutely loaded at basically every position right now (except goal, prospect wise). Especially if it’s all futures.
That said, there really is no need to go forward if you think adding Eichel to this team only makes them slightly better. We clearly are watching 2 different players.
I would pass on Eichel. He's an elite talent, but I'm not convinced that he'd be good for the Kings. 6 years of being a good player on a consistently underperforming team. Keep in mind he's not even a PPG player this year currently. I trust the Kings' developing their own players rather than take a guy enmeshed in a losing culture his entire career. Kings are in a position where they can bide their time and pick their spots to pounce on the trade market, and I don't think this one is it. Center isn't even a position of need.
King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
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"Where would we get weaker"? You think Buffalo's giving Eichel for free? Or do you think Buffalo will just accept some magic beans?
Do you think Eichel makes the Kings a cup contender? If no, then how is that much better than where the Kings are? Because right now the Kings are fighting for the playoffs.
We're clearly watching two different players, since you seem to think the Kings would give up nothing of consequence for him.
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