Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Rumors/Roster Discussion Part II

[cyclones22]

Danault sounds a lot like Jarret Stoll and his role with the Kings. I'll take it.

 

[King'sPawn]

I don't understand how, after all this time, there's question of Kopitar's No. 1 Center status and/or talent.

Since he started playing in the NHL in 2006/07, no player has led the team in scoring for as many seasons as Kopitar. Not Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Ovechkin, Bergeron, etc.

Even if/when he plays the same number of seasons, Connor McDavid won't have a better performance relative to team, as he's led his team in scoring in all but 2 seasons as well.

Since he joined the Kings, Kopitar has scored 349 MORE points than the second highest Kings scorer in that time span (Brown has scored 651 points since Kopitar entered the league).

And he's done this while playing top penalty kill time and shutting down the opposition.

For context, McDavid has outscored Draisaitl by 77 points since he entered the league. At that rate, after 6 seasons, McDavid would have to play more than 24 seasons to have that wide of a gap between him and Draisaitl

You don't have to be a Kopitar fanboy, but holy **** some of you aren't appreciating what you have while you have it.

 

[Piston]

He definitely helps with the minutes issue but not in the scoring department. He has seven points in 31 career playoff games.

He isn't necessarily a "going for it during Kopitar's current contract" guy but he definitely fits that Handzus comparison. Zeus was 30 when he signed his four year deal here whereas Danault would be 28 so your five year deal actually fits better age-wise than Zeus's four year deal. Cost nothing except cap like Zeus as well.

I'm not against it. Maybe Vilardi gets that move over to wing or is trade bait for a Top 6 wing if they bring in Danault. Of course, he'd have to want to come here so I don't know if that $5.5MM is overpayment or not.

But Danault removes much of AK's defensive responsibilities, takes him off the PK and allows him to play fewer minutes (no more taking every face off in the defensive zone). That will keep him fresh and scoring at a high pace. Danault does not have neck issues, will not involve an 8 figure contract and does not come with character concerns. Given where the Kings are right now, he is the perfect fit, and with most teams lacking cap space, we can get him at a reasonable amount although we will have to over pay for minimal offensive production. As DL would say, he plays the game the right way. I hope Blake sees it the way I do.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

agree that Danault would be the Stoll/Handzus equivalent, not many guys like that in the league, and much fewer that become available.

and VERY few guys where you look at them and go 'yeah it makes sense to give him and not AK the defensive assignments"

 

[SFKingshomer]

Danault is going to get a contract much larger than he's worth.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Danault is going to get a contract much larger than he's worth.

I don't think he will because there's not many to give it to him.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Let me clarify my answer. I was merely speaking in terms of slowing down in terms speed because of the grind. Kopi is still a beast, the best player on the Kings and a first ballot HOFer.

It's all good, and I didn't mean to point any of that at you, I think if anything I was trying to show WHY in supplement to what you're saying...dude is skating with a piano on his back.

 

[BigKing]

But Danault removes much of AK's defensive responsibilities, takes him off the PK and allows him to play fewer minutes (no more taking every face off in the defensive zone). That will keep him fresh and scoring at a high pace. Danault does not have neck issues, will not involve an 8 figure contract and does not come with character concerns. Given where the Kings are right now, he is the perfect fit, and with most teams lacking cap space, we can get him at a reasonable amount although we will have to over pay for minimal offensive production. As DL would say, he plays the game the right way. I hope Blake sees it the way I do.

I'm not arguing for an Eichel trade and agree that Danault would make the Kings a better team and allow them to keep their prospects through another season of development.

I just don't know what the going rate is for a guy with his skillset and if 5 years/$5.5MM gets it done. Is that the actual market so the Kings would have to go six years and more money?

Regardless, Kings and sought-after UFAs don't really happen. Handzus was coming off the ACL tear and DL *seemingly* overpaid for Scuderi but the latter already had his Cup ring whereas Danault might not have one this offseason. Might be tough to sign a contract at 28 where there is a good chance of not being a legit contender for at least two or three years. Scuderi didn't have as many question marks because the talent of Kopitar/Doughty/Brown/Quick was pretty evident when he signed v. the current Kings youth that is mostly unproven.

 

[BigBrown]

Handzus earned $4M AAV when the salary cap was $50.3M. The equivalent contract today would be $6.48M AAV.

 

[BigKing]

Handzus earned $4M AAV when the salary cap was $50.3M. The equivalent contract today would be $6.48M AAV.

Thanks for doing the numbers since I knew his $4MM wasn't equal to $4MM today.

21 points in 82 games and a sub-50% FO percentage in his first season. So gnarly how bad his first season was coming off of the knee injury.

 

[bland]

The Kings won the 2014 Stanley Cup despite starting the year with Matt Frattin and the corpse of Mike Richards making up 2/3 of the 2nd line. Still blows my mind.

Lombardi did a heck of a job that season fixing a disaster on the fly.

If I remember correctly Richards led the Kings in scoring thru Thanksgiving before dropping off substantially. Then he had a big role in winning the 2nd Cup despite folks memories. The games are all there to see on YouTube, they are a blast to watch. Richards was so damn good in the Finals.

And I think the whole mind-blown thing is just part of the fixation on big name scorers being required to win. They just aren't.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Danault has 24 points this year in 53 games. Kings are loaded at center. Pass.

Moore and AA had basically the same points.

 

[Herby]

If I remember correctly Richards led the Kings in scoring thru Thanksgiving before dropping off substantially. Then he had a big role in winning the 2nd Cup despite folks memories. The games are all there to see on YouTube, they are a blast to watch. Richards was so damn good in the Finals.

And I think the whole mind-blown thing is just part of the fixation on big name scorers being required to win. They just aren't.

And I find it fascinating that someone could minimize the contributions of players like Kucherov, Kane, Point, Gaborik, Barzal etc in the same post where they say a 4th line center had a "big role" in winning a championship.

You just don't realize there are multiple ways to win championships and they can be won with multiple different kinds of players depending on what the team needs. Darryl Sutter always talks about the huge role that adding King and Nolan to the Kings lineup played in the teams success in 2012, your kinds of players, and Sutter was right, they were both very important players in that Kings run in 2014, no one denies it, when so many players and coaches say it how could anyone? You will fairly and correctly cite something like that to prove your point but then will ignore what teammates and opponents say about someone like Caufield because you have a bizarre hatred of that kind of player. Why would Tyler Toffoli say what he said about him if that weren't the case? Why did the Leafs come out after the series and say his inclusion into the lineup completely changed the dynamic of the Habs team and the series as a whole? Just like with King and Nolan when so many players, coaches and opponents say something maybe you should listen, instead of sticking to your Barry Melrose like ideology. Like why would an opponent say that if it weren't true and those types of players don't help you win? Winning championships takes the right amount of skill, speed, grit, size, toughness etc, you seem to want a team of 20 Matthew Tkachuk's and that is going to fail, just like a team of 20 Cole Caufield's would fail. Doesn't mean you don't roster any Matthew Tkachuk's or Cole Caufield's, as both types of players can be huge parts of winning teams. Hell that would be a pretty damn nice 2/3 of a 1st line for any team.

I don't understand how, after all this time, there's question of Kopitar's No. 1 Center status and/or talent.

Since he started playing in the NHL in 2006/07, no player has led the team in scoring for as many seasons as Kopitar. Not Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Ovechkin, Bergeron, etc.

Even if/when he plays the same number of seasons, Connor McDavid won't have a better performance relative to team, as he's led his team in scoring in all but 2 seasons as well.

Since he joined the Kings, Kopitar has scored 349 MORE points than the second highest Kings scorer in that time span (Brown has scored 651 points since Kopitar entered the league).

And he's done this while playing top penalty kill time and shutting down the opposition.

For context, McDavid has outscored Draisaitl by 77 points since he entered the league. At that rate, after 6 seasons, McDavid would have to play more than 24 seasons to have that wide of a gap between him and Draisaitl

You don't have to be a Kopitar fanboy, but holy **** some of you aren't appreciating what you have while you have it.

Good post.

I've given up on trying to figure out why so many in our fanbase are dismissive of the unbelievable career that Kopitar has had. He never gets the credit he deserves from so many people. We hear credit for the cups given to quite frankly a bunch of people who had way less to do with it than Kopitar, I've never understood it and never will.

People will complain about his numbers because he isn't a 90+ guy every year, completely disregarding that he has never had anything that even resembled a star winger to play with in his 15 years on the Kings, as well many of those years he didn't even have a capable 2nd line center playing behind him, furthermore he spent the majority of those years playing against other teams top lines and for coaches who didn't want him going below the faceoff circles in the offensive zone yet as you mentioned always found a way to run away with the team scoring lead. With apologies to Doughty and Quick (fantastic players in their own right) and all the secondary players as well as coaches and managers that people overrate and fawn over, this era, which included two Stanley Cups sandwiched between another year where the Kings were the second best team in the NHL should be viewed as the Kopitar era. And because of that success, which many of us never thought would come, he should go down as the most important player in the history of the franchise and should be treated as that by the fans. Unfortunately that isn't the case.

Kopitar is winding down, he's probably on the fairway of the 16th hole, even now though he is still a legit #1 center in the NHL and still a high end defensive center, even if he's no longer at his peak in either regard. This is a classic situation of not appreciating what you have until its gone. I saw this with a lot of my fellow Michigan fans and alums with our former head coach Lloyd Carr, always diminished, minimized and hated. 14 years later we've had no one even close to what he accomplished and just now people are realizing and beginning to appreciate what he did for our football program. I hope the same isn't true of Kopitar and people are quicker to realize what they had.

Edit: And just to add, Kopitar has been for his entire time with the Kings a model citizen and pro. For a team that has seen multiple players busted for drugs, players beating their wives, players lying to the media and fans, players showing questionable effort, players being insubordinate and so on, he has always been the perfect citizen. Just like I said about Slavin in the other thread, have you ever in 15 years heard anyone say anything negative about Kopitar as a pro?

 

[Ollie Weeks]

The only '2nd line' centers putting up remotely close to PPG like Kopitar are guys like Tavares and Draisaitl who are getting completely loose deployment as opposed to Kopitar's #1 d-man minutes and hard matchups/pk time.

NO ONE is doing what Kopitar is doing, all of the above on a shit team.

I presume the philosophy is Kopitar plays the defensive stopper minutes so the kids can excel but that failed this year. Going forward, if they want to do that, Vilardi Byfield et. al. have to take advantage of the soft minutes, OR management has to bring in a Danault to eat those minutes so Kopitar can roam free for the first time since his rookie year.

IF neither of the above is true, then yeah, you get what you get--a wearing-down Kopitar playing more minutes than almost any forward in the league, harder minutes than any forward in the league, still excelling production wise and possession wise--still a CLEAR 1C, just used entirely wrong.

man even in a shortened season Kopitar STILL found a way to outscore Drew Doughty by 16 points and his next closest forward by almost 20 (Kopitar 50, Brown 31). And his advanced stats relative to team given that deployment is absurd (8 CF%rel, 8 GF%rel)

This is exactly why I throw a guy like Gourde into the mix when talking about spare forwards we can try and acquire. He is currently deployed in a predominantly defensive and produces admirably and can shift to wing as the roster evolves. I don’t care if we are deep at C, or if the term is a year or two long, I think the fit is good. I want insulation for Byfield,Vilardi and Turcotte, and a move like that would help Kopitar immeasurably, as you allude to. I also want competitors, and anyone from Tampa will be coming off two deep runs and have expectations.

Edit: looked up and saw he has a full NTC till next summer, so disregard. I goober.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Danault has 24 points this year in 53 games. Kings are loaded at center. Pass.

Moore and AA had basically the same points.

It's like you're trying NOT to understand why that name is thrown out there.

I'll give you a hint, he's got a single ONE goal against this series despite starting less than 10% of his shifts in the offensive zone, and still has some of the best possession stats on the team while shutting down VGK's top line.

I'll give you more than a hint--you give him Kopitar's hard minutes and let AK go on offense.

AA had the same amount of points--while given the complete opposite deployment as well as ample power play time.

 

[bland]

And I find it fascinating that someone could minimize the contributions of players like Kucherov, Kane, Point, Gaborik, Barzal etc in the same post where they say a 4th line center had a "big role" in winning a championship.

You just don't realize there are multiple ways to win championships and they can be won with multiple different kinds of players depending on what the team needs. Darryl Sutter always talks about the huge role that adding King and Nolan to the Kings lineup played in the teams success in 2012, your kinds of players, and Sutter was right, they were both very important players in that Kings run in 2014, no one denies it, when so many players and coaches say it how could anyone? You will fairly and correctly cite something like that to prove your point but then will ignore what teammates and opponents say about someone like Caufield because you have a bizarre hatred of that kind of player. Why would Tyler Toffoli say what he said about him if that weren't the case? Why did the Leafs come out after the series and say his inclusion into the lineup completely changed the dynamic of the Habs team and the series as a whole? Just like with King and Nolan when so many players, coaches and opponents say something maybe you should listen, instead of sticking to your Barry Melrose like ideology. Like why would an opponent say that if it weren't true and those types of players don't help you win? Winning championships takes the right amount of skill, speed, grit, size, toughness etc, you seem to want a team of 20 Rick Tocchet's and that is going to fail, just like a team of 20 Cole Caufield's would fail.



Good post.

I've given up on trying to figure out why so many in our fanbase are dismissive of the unbelievable career that Kopitar has had. He never gets the credit he deserves from so many people. We hear credit for the cups given to quite frankly a bunch of people who had way less to do with it than Kopitar, I've never understood it and never will.

People will complain about his numbers because he isn't a 90+ guy every year, completely disregarding that he has never had anything that even resembled a star winger to play with in his 15 years on the Kings, as well many of those years he didn't even have a capable 2nd line center playing behind him, furthermore he spent the majority of those years playing against other teams top lines and for coaches who didn't want him going below the faceoff circles in the offensive zone yet as you mentioned always found a way to run away with the team scoring lead. With apologies to Doughty and Quick (fantastic players in their own right) and all the secondary players as well as coaches and managers that people overrate and fawn over, this era, which included two Stanley Cups sandwiched between another year where the Kings were the second best team in the NHL should be viewed as the Kopitar era. And because of that success, which many of us never thought would come, he should go down as the most important player in the history of the franchise and should be treated as that by the fans. Unfortunately that isn't the case.

Kopitar is winding down, he's probably on the fairway of the 16th hole, even now though he is still a legit #1 center in the NHL and still a high end defensive center, even if he's no longer at his peak in either regard. This is a classic situation of not appreciating what you have until its gone. I saw this with a lot of my fellow Michigan fans and alums with our former head coach Lloyd Carr, always diminished, minimized and hated. 14 years later we've had no one even close to what he accomplished and just now people are realizing and beginning to appreciate what he did for our football program. I hope the same isn't true of Kopitar and people are quicker to realize what they had.

You still don't get it.

Its not "my types of players", you have no idea what "my" type of player is at all. There is nothing wrong with the players you mentioned, its just that they aren't the ones that are going to make THE difference here. The Kings are loaded with skill, it just isn't here yet. You want to fast forward the process by dealing away many of those prospects for surer things, but it will still completely neglect what is really needed, and that is a new identity and purpose that isn't trying to capitalize on heroes of the past instead of supplanting them.

And if you wanted to make the most of those guys, you won't do it by bringing in one dimensional skill players, you would need to address the overwhelming lack of board play, forechecking and defensive conscience - none of which is improved a damn bit by bringing in Eichel's and Marner's, because you would STILL need to bring in the types of players I am talking about, at least three of them. And that completely cancels out all the progress made in the rebuild because you will have to trade 8 or 9 assets in total just to get into the playoff picture. And there most definitely has been progress. It isn't measured in the standings at this stage of the process, which is where people keep getting lost here.

 

[Herby]

You still don't get it.

Its not "my types of players", you have no idea what "my" type of player is at all. There is nothing wrong with the players you mentioned, its just that they aren't the ones that are going to make THE difference here. The Kings are loaded with skill, it just isn't here yet. You want to fast forward the process by dealing away many of those prospects for surer things, but it will still completely neglect what is really needed, and that is a new identity and purpose that isn't trying to capitalize on heroes of the past instead of supplanting them.

And if you wanted to make the most of those guys, you won't do it by bringing in one dimensional skill players, you would need to address the overwhelming lack of board play, forechecking and defensive conscience - none of which is improved a damn bit by bringing in Eichel's and Marner's, because you would STILL need to bring in the types of players I am talking about, at least three of them. And that completely cancels out all the progress made in the rebuild because you will have to trade 8 or 9 assets in total just to get into the playoff picture. And there most definitely has been progress. It isn't measured in the standings at this stage of the process, which is where people keep getting lost here.

Those types of players are easier to acquire than players with point per game or 40 goal potential, hence why teams generally draft high end offensive players at the top of the draft because they are just rarer. And you act as if I am opposed to bringing in gritty players, you may want to check what I said about Josh Anderson on this very board two days ago or what I said about Dwight King and Jordan Nolan 30 minutes ago. Josh Anderson was traded for Max Domi and a 3rd round pick, Dwight King and Jordan Nolan were late round picks. The difference between me and you is I am open to any type of player who can help the Kings win, you completely reject and minimize the ability of certain types of players to help you win, even when players and coaches in the league tell you the opposite of what you think.

If you don't think that an Eichel trade would be good for the Kings I completely understand it, it is a valid and logical opinion to have. I disagree but totally understand why you would have it. Your other opinion that skilled players don't help you win in the playoffs isn't valid or logical whatsoever and is literally being disproven every night in these playoffs.

And since you skipped it over. If a player like Caufield doesn't help you win in the playoffs what is your response to what his teammates say and what his opponents said after the 1st round? Are they just wrong and you are right?

What is the teams record this year with and without him? Not saying he is the sole reason they are where they are, but to say him, or players like him "Don't help you win in the playoffs" is absurd. Caufield has certainly helped Montreal win in these playoffs as. 20 year old rookie, anyone who says otherwise isn't watching.

 

[Lt Dan]

You still don't get it.

Is it possible that you don't get it? That even you don't understand the point that you are try to make?

 

[Reclamation Project]

Is it possible that you don't get it? That even you don't understand the point that you are try to make?

 

[Cook24]

Matt Tkachuk wants out of Calgary supposedly

Make it happen Blake

 

[Bandit]

Is it possible that you don't get it? That even you don't understand the point that you are try to make?

Nobody gets it. None of this matters.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Matt Tkachuk wants out of Calgary supposedly

Make it happen Blake

Not worth the assets Calgary would want.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Matt Tkachuk wants out of Calgary supposedly

Make it happen Blake

Oh damn! I just got a pair off his pro stock gloves.

 

[Cook24]

Not worth the assets Calgary would want.

I think a lot of people here underestimate our prospects outside of Byfield, Turcotte, and Kaliyev…

 

[Lt Dan]

Oh damn! I just got a pair off his pro stock gloves.

This is a sign

This is what Ace of Base was talking about