Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Roster/Rumors Discussion Part VI

[Kudelski37]

How many players as good as Jack Eichel are ever traded at 24?

The guy had a 45G/95P pace as a 23 year old before the Covid stoppage last year on a garbage team. You could go a decade without seeing someone his age/skill combo traded. He's only available because Buffalo is a complete and total dumpster fire.

Very optimistic and IMO unrealistic to expect that in 2-3 years when people say "the rebuild is ready" that a Jack Eichel type will be available.

With the expansion draft and flat cap, the Kings should be able to get a quality winger and defenseman for less than the acquisition cost of Eichel and without the health question. That would make a better team now and in the future both talent and capwise. I just see a trade for Eichel as buying a house that leaves you no money for furniture or fixing things that are bound to break.

 

[tbrown33]

With the expansion draft and flat cap, the Kings should be able to get a quality winger and defenseman for less than the acquisition cost of Eichel and without the health question. That would make a better team now and in the future both talent and capwise. I just see a trade for Eichel as buying a house that leaves you no money for furniture or fixing things that are bound to break.

100%, and I see Reinhart as a more realistic target if we’re looking at Buffalo. But Tampa would also be a great team to pluck a forward and/or defenseman from.

 

[Herby]

With the expansion draft and flat cap, the Kings should be able to get a quality winger and defenseman for less than the acquisition cost of Eichel and without the health question. That would make a better team now and in the future both talent and capwise. I just see a trade for Eichel as buying a house that leaves you no money for furniture or fixing things that are bound to break.

So you want to pick 8th to 16th the next 3 years and never have enough elite high end talent to win a SC?

Or are you on board with trading Doughty and starting over?

If the Kings hypothetically traded Vilaridi, Turcotte and this years #1 for Eichel it would leave the Kings with Eichel (24), Byfield (18), Kaliyev (20), Kupari (21), Bjornfot (20), JAD (22), Faber (18), Anderson (21), Fagemo (21), Madden (22), Thomas (21), Andersson (22), Grans (18).

How on Earth is that "not being able to furnish or fix up" around your 2 young star centers (assuming QB hits)?

 

[Herby]

The first part was simply that there are a lot of game changers who flourished early who haven't won anything, just as many are on teams that haven't won cups than on teams that have won. Nothing more than that.

Picking top 5 matters, but it's not everything. The guys above were picked between 2003-2009. There are 10 listed out of 35, and while a couple more could be added that's still 70% who didn't have that kind of an impact. But my point wasn't that picking early doesn't matter, it's that it is way to early to say the Kings don't have the game-changers necessary just because they aren't flying out of the gate like some others. Look at the Blues who won a couple years ago.

1. Ryan O'Reilly, great player, captain, leader. Broke in the league at 19 and put up two mediocre seasons. Gabe Vilardi broke in at 20, and he missed a crapload of time because of his back. He's put up substantially better numbers than Reilly did early in his career.

2. Jaden Schwartz, very good player, but not game altering - In the AHL at 21, put up 19 points in 39 games. Turcotte put up slightly better numbers despite being a year and a half younger when he started in the AHL.

3. Pietrangelo - Should probably be on the above list, he's a top 5 pick that's a game changer who came out on fire.

4. Tarasenko, in the game changer discussion - Wasn't doing well in the KHL as Turcotte, Byfield, Thomas, or Kaliyev did in the AHL. Different leagues, but the KHL is a lot more wide open, crappy defense, and at the time had the bigger ice surface, All of them are similar age or younger than Tarasenko was. Kaliyev in particular looks a lot better than Tarasenko did early.

And none of that means a whole lot because it's too early to call.

There are also high picks that started well and then fell apart, like Jordan Staal, Gagner, Bogosian, Setoguchi, and Mueller. There's a group of top 10s that scored in the 30 & 40s points wise right away then never improved on that. There's a good sized group of late starters who didn't start well but turned into fantastic players. It's way too early to tell if the Kings missed the boat on a guy like Zegras or Caufield just because Turcotte isn't in the NHL yet, just like it's too early to figure out who the true game-changers from 2019 are.

I know you are high on Zegras but 60 points next year? Sure, it could happen, but don't forget Vilardi was on a better pace as a 20 year old. I'm thinking mid 40's.

So you'd rather use the Blues model that produced one SC win mixed in with a bunch of 1st and 2nd round losses instead of the model the other teams used to have much more success?

Tarasenko was almost a point per game player in the KHL in his D+2. The KHL is the 2nd best league in the world, and better than the watered down AHL this year. Turcotte and Thomas were not close to ppg players this year in that league, so not sure how that is comparable.

Which prospects on the Reign (other than QB) do you see as being comparable at their peaks to Tarasenko, Pietrangelo and O'Reilly?

As for Zegras, well he scored at a 44 point pace this season with zero PP points, and considering the jump many players make at the same age it is probably fair to say that he makes a significant jump in the NHL next year. It would be a huge disappointment if someone with his skill level and opportunity stagnated between his year 19 and year 20 seasons. I don't think he will do this, but I'd put better odds on him scoring 85 points than 45 points next season.

 

[kovacro]

Opinions on bringing in Mike Hoffman? Not sure what the cost would be as he is going to finish up a 1-year deal @ $4 million with St. Louis. He will be 32 in November.

I would suspect he's looking for term but with a flat cap, I would wonder if he entertains a short term deal. Could provide some much needed scoring on the wings. Had 17 goals in 52 games for the Blues during the regular season.

Michael Bunting (Group 6 - UFA Arizona) is another one who I would look at. Could be a Carter Verhaeghe type pickup. Was able to put the puck in the net during his brief time with the Yotes' this year (10 goals in 21 games). I thought he showed well.

 

[KINGS17]

So you want to pick 8th to 16th the next 3 years and never have enough elite high end talent to win a SC?

Or are you on board with trading Doughty and starting over?

If the Kings hypothetically traded Vilaridi, Turcotte and this years #1 for Eichel it would leave the Kings with Eichel (24), Byfield (18), Kaliyev (20), Kupari (21), Bjornfot (20), JAD (22), Faber (18), Anderson (21), Fagemo (21), Madden (22), Thomas (21), Andersson (22), Grans (18).

How on Earth is that "not being able to furnish or fix up" around your 2 young star centers (assuming QB hits)?

So much of this depends on Eichel being healthy and producing at the pace he has in the past over the next 5 years that it concerns me. I am not dead set against this kind of deal, but the Kings medical staff better do their homework. The homework better include not just Eichel's current status, but a projection of what his future status will be including the likelihood of another injury over the next 5 years.

What is Buffalo going to want in a trade for Eichel? Also, unknown. The hypothetical trade you mention seems pretty thin on assets the Kings would be giving up, unless Buffalo is thinking Eichel's injury in career threatening.

 

[Kudelski37]

So you want to pick 8th to 16th the next 3 years and never have enough elite high end talent to win a SC?

Or are you on board with trading Doughty and starting over?

If the Kings hypothetically traded Vilaridi, Turcotte and this years #1 for Eichel it would leave the Kings with Eichel (24), Byfield (18), Kaliyev (20), Kupari (21), Bjornfot (20), JAD (22), Faber (18), Anderson (21), Fagemo (21), Madden (22), Thomas (21), Andersson (22), Grans (18).

How on Earth is that "not being able to furnish or fix up" around your 2 young star centers (assuming QB hits)?

What I'm proposing is using less assets and building a deeper team like Vegas than a team relying only on Kopitar and Eichel for scoring. This would be a better bet for competing for a cup than the Kopitar/Eichel set up for the next 5+ years. Eichel would eat up half of the Kings remaining cap space limiting the ability to aquire quality depth at wing and d.

 

[Rusty Batch]

So you want to pick 8th to 16th the next 3 years and never have enough elite high end talent to win a SC?

Or are you on board with trading Doughty and starting over?

If the Kings hypothetically traded Vilaridi, Turcotte and this years #1 for Eichel it would leave the Kings with Eichel (24), Byfield (18), Kaliyev (20), Kupari (21), Bjornfot (20), JAD (22), Faber (18), Anderson (21), Fagemo (21), Madden (22), Thomas (21), Andersson (22), Grans (18).

How on Earth is that "not being able to furnish or fix up" around your 2 young star centers (assuming QB hits)?

Yep this is the point I have been hammering. If you make that Eichel trade (I don't think the value is all that far off either, I mean that's three lottery picks, we could still add a bit if we have to without really changing the core of the offer) you still have a stupid amount of young talent around our core. And even better in a proposal like that we would continue to keep our future picks and quite a bit of cap flexibility.

Also not to mention we would have Cal Petersen, Matt Roy, Walker, Kempe, Iafallo, Moore, etc...

 

[Fat Elvis]

What I'm proposing is using less assets and building a deeper team like Vegas than a team relying only on Kopitar and Eichel for scoring. This would be a better bet for competing for a cup than the Kopitar/Eichel set up for the next 5+ years. Eichel would eat up half of the Kings remaining cap space limiting the ability to aquire quality depth at wing and d.

I agree with this line of thinking. Plus Eichel is no where near healthy enough to play and they can't agree on how to go forward with getting him healthy. That should be a Huge red flag.

If LA trades a bunch of assets for 1 player, That player better be GD healthy enough to produce at a high level from day 1.

 

[tomd]

I agree with this line of thinking. Plus Eichel is no where near healthy enough to play and they can't agree on how to go forward with getting him healthy. That should be a Huge red flag.

If LA trades a bunch of assets for 1 player, That player better be GD healthy enough to produce at a high level from day 1.

I think Blake is incompetent but even I don't think he's incompetent enough to trade for an injured player. If Eichel isn't healthy then they'll make a signficant trade for someone else (cough *Laine* cough).

 

[tbrown33]

Everyone talking about Eichel and Laine when there will be a crapload of *actual* cap-strapped teams looking to unload quality young forwards with proven track records this offseason (TAMPA BAY). There will be good players avail for less value than normal. Buy low. The timing for LA couldnt possibly be better.

 

[Rusty Batch]

What I'm proposing is using less assets and building a deeper team like Vegas than a team relying only on Kopitar and Eichel for scoring. This would be a better bet for competing for a cup than the Kopitar/Eichel set up for the next 5+ years. Eichel would eat up half of the Kings remaining cap space limiting the ability to aquire quality depth at wing and d.

The team would not just be relying on Kopitar and Eichel for scoring. (Although having two top centers is a good start.) The kings would also rely on Byfield and Kaliyev for scoring which I think is a pretty safe bet.

Imagine a power play with Eichel, Kaliyev, Kopitar, Byfield, Doughty...

Plus we would still have cap space and assets to add.

 

[Herby]

What I'm proposing is using less assets and building a deeper team like Vegas than a team relying only on Kopitar and Eichel for scoring. This would be a better bet for competing for a cup than the Kopitar/Eichel set up for the next 5+ years. Eichel would eat up half of the Kings remaining cap space limiting the ability to aquire quality depth at wing and d.

How many teams have won championships without multiple star players by building a depth based roster?

And how are we just relying on Kopitar and Eichel for scoring? What becomes of Byfield and Kaliyev, the organizations two most talented prospects? Byfield has potentially a star or even superstar ceiling and is 18, Kaliyev has 30-40+ goal ceiling and he is 19. That is your best winger and 2nd or maybe even 1st line C depending on how close to his ceiling QB hits.

What about Kupari(just turned 21), who many nights this year was the best player on the Reign. Is he not good enough to either center an offensively oriented 3C or more likely play scoring line RW next to one of the star centers?

What about Fagemo who just turned 21 and looked pretty good in the AHL. Is he not a guy you can put next to an Eichel or QB and have him be the 3rd best player on a scoring line? I think he can be that player

What about JAD(21) who looked very good as a potential 3C this year? Can he not be a championship caliber 3rd line center? I think he can.

What about Thomas (21) who had a really nice year in the AHL as a rookie, can he not play next to JAD and be a two-way force on a potential third line?

And this doesn't even include Adrian Kempe(24) and Alex Iafallo(27) and heck its probably fair to include Trevor Moore (26) based on how awesome he was this year.

The Kings are bursting at the seams with secondary and complimentary pieces, so much so that there simply isn't going to be room in the organization for all of them to play. Moving two of them for a 24 year old star is not going to prevent the team from building a loaded roster or sacrificing the future. The only way there is any validity to the "sacrifice the future" argument is if the Kings trade Byfield because he is the only Kings prospect in the elite blue chip tier. The Kings are still loaded with secondary forwards under 25 even if you trade 2 of them (Turcotte, Vilardi as the example) + the pick to Buffalo.

 

[Herby]

Everyone talking about Eichel and Laine when there will be a crapload of *actual* cap-strapped teams looking to unload quality young forwards with proven track records this offseason (TAMPA BAY). There will be good players avail for less value than normal. Buy low. The timing for LA couldnt possibly be better.

No one is trading any elite 1st line young players.

So the solution is to just add more and more complimentary pieces to an organization that is already filled with them?

There are only 12 roster spots for forwards.

 

[SFKingshomer]

I don't mind trading for Eichel but hell no to Laine unless he comes cheap. Too many red flags with motivation and work ethic on now he's 2nd team. Eichel takes pressure off Kopitar and Byfield. They also need someone to take some minutes away from Doughty on the 2nd pair.

 

[BringTheReign]

Yea I just remember her shot feeling really heavy. Chanda Gunn tried out for our team that won State and she played better than myself and our other goalie in tryouts but later went elsewhere. I know she won a US Gold.

Chanda used to run clinics at the old Skate Zone in Huntington Beach. They used to let me get there at 6 am to practice by myself, and sometimes Chanda would either already be there working with a shooter or would throw on pads to join us. I still have a signed stick from her somewhere.

Man, I miss that rink. It's been closed almost 15 years now, but as someone who grew up playing ice and roller I'd spend all day there just hoping back and forth between the rinks.

 

[tbrown33]

No one is trading any elite 1st line young players.

So the solution is to just add more and more complimentary pieces to an organization that is already filled with them?

There are only 12 roster spots for forwards.

Lol no. There will be several good players that are way better than what we currently have that will be avail on cap strapped teams. Our options arent just the superstar with a broken neck and the sniper who hates hockey.

 

[BigKing]

Eichel's injury muddies the waters but a situation like this is exactly what you look for once you've amassed a ton of picks, prospects and cap space.

The argument can be made that the timing is bad in the sense that it is too early but the flipside is that an opportunity like this might not be there when the timing is supposedly right.

Blake has put himself in a position to take advantage of another team's horrible situation. It might wind up not being Eichel but I have to imagine that Blake is talking to Buffalo about every attractive piece that they have.

I still like the idea of Reinhart if Eichel is deemed too risky with the injury or Buffalo's price is too silly. Put him at RW with Byfield so QB can have a real NHL player next to him. Hell, put Iafallo on his other side to make the transition even better for him and just let Kopitar deal with Kempe/Brown on his wings. Eventually roll Kaliyev in at some point and go from there.

It isn't a swing for the fences move like Eichel but it could allow you to keep Byfield/Turcotte and also make other additions to the roster.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Lol no. There will be several good players that are way better than what we currently have that will be avail on cap strapped teams. Our options arent just the superstar with a broken neck and the sniper who hates hockey.

Like who? TB's spare parts don't really move the needle.

 

[TruKingFan]

Losing Vilardi, Turcotte, our 2021 first rd pick (perhaps even more like Walker) for Eichel is only acceptable IF and its a HUGE IF, Eichel is 100%. There seems to not be any final diagnosis of the injury and odds of the players recovery so Blake better be real careful.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Chanda used to run clinics at the old Skate Zone in Huntington Beach. They used to let me get there at 6 am to practice by myself, and sometimes Chanda would either already be there working with a shooter or would throw on pads to join us. I still have a signed stick from her somewhere.

Man, I miss that rink. It's been closed almost 15 years now, but as someone who grew up playing ice and roller I'd spend all day there just hoping back and forth between the rinks.

I remember watching Chanda play, god she was good.....trying to remember the other female goaltender of that time frame...I can't remember her name or where she played, she was Asian...she was extremely good as well.....I think both went on to play college hockey...

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Like who? TB's spare parts don't really move the needle.

Carter Verhaeghe was a TB spare part and now he's scoring 18 goals this year (more than any King) and plus 24 was second on the Panthers...I'm for targeting good young players
that just need a change....how the F was Chandler Stephenson a spare part on the Caps and now #1 center on Vegas?
There must be some decent players under 25 that have ability and need a change., that could be had for a reasonable cost - especially, if their team has cap issues (as stated)

 

[kovacro]

Like who? TB's spare parts don't really move the needle.

If Tampa is in a pinch and they need to move a 'spare part' guy like Palat, I would make a call to check the price point. He will have one year left after this season @ $5.3 million. Will turn 31 March of next season.

I think the cost would be reasonable due to term remaining and Tampa looking to shed some salary.

Important note about Palat is his NTC...

CLAUSE DETAILS: Starting July 1, 2021: Player submits a 20 team trade list.

I believe the playoffs will still be taking place at that time so he would have to waive if traded depending on his list.

 

[tbrown33]

Like who? TB's spare parts don't really move the needle.

That's a good question and I think it would be a fun exercise to start talking about players that aren't Eichel for a bit - that convo feels exhausted around these parts lately.

Would love to take a closer look at Tampa because I honestly have no idea what their plan is for the offseason, but they are primed to be massively over the cap.

Perhaps the expansion draft will provide them an avenue to shed SOME salary but they're not even close at the current juncture.

I would disagree that their "spare parts" wouldn't "move the needle." Every guy that makes good $$ on that roster would improve the Kings roster. Plus they are proven winners and Stanley Cup winners - so good culture guys, generally speaking.

The ONLY players with salary that have zero NMC or NTC protection:

Brayden Point - 6.75m
Anthony Cirelli - 4.8m
Mikhail Sergachev - 4.8m
Erik Cernak (only 2.9m so not really counting him)

Players with modified clauses:
Ondrej Palat (has to submit a list of 20 teams he will go to) - 5.3m
Killorn (16 team no trade list)
Tyler Johnson (20 team list) - 5m *should not be a target*

Not happening/full no move:
Kucherov
Stamkos
Yanni Gourde
Hedman
McDonagh

I know you've said that guys will simply "waive" in order for Tampa to move them, and that there is historical precedent, but not when you're a multi millionaire playing for a team as good as they are living in a tax free state with beachfront houses.

With that said - what's Tampa's move here? Every player on this list would improve our roster in a big way (except maybe Tyler Johnson). Tampa won't WANT to move these guys but what choice do they have? Should be interesting to see either way.

Would love to see similar lists for the bevy of other teams up against the cap.

 

[SFKingshomer]

That's a good question and I think it would be a fun exercise to start talking about players that aren't Eichel for a bit - that convo feels exhausted around these parts lately.

Would love to take a closer look at Tampa because I honestly have no idea what their plan is for the offseason, but they are primed to be massively over the cap.

Perhaps the expansion draft will provide them an avenue to shed SOME salary but they're not even close at the current juncture.

I would disagree that their "spare parts" wouldn't "move the needle." Every guy that makes good $$ on that roster would improve the Kings roster. Plus they are proven winners and Stanley Cup winners - so good culture guys, generally speaking.

The ONLY players with salary that have zero NMC or NTC protection:

Brayden Point - 6.75m
Anthony Cirelli - 4.8m
Mikhail Sergachev - 4.8m
Erik Cernak (only 2.9m so not really counting him)

Players with modified clauses:
Ondrej Palat (has to submit a list of 20 teams he will go to) - 5.3m
Killorn (16 team no trade list)
Tyler Johnson (20 team list) - 5m *should not be a target*

Not happening/full no move:
Kucherov
Stamkos
Yanni Gourde
Hedman
McDonagh

I know you've said that guys will simply "waive" in order for Tampa to move them, and that there is historical precedent, but not when you're a multi millionaire playing for a team as good as they are living in a tax free state with beachfront houses.

With that said - what's Tampa's move here? Every player on this list would improve our roster in a big way (except maybe Tyler Johnson). Tampa won't WANT to move these guys but what choice do they have? Should be interesting to see either way.

Would love to see similar lists for the bevy of other teams up against the cap.

Palat is the only realistic option I'd want and he's by no means a game breaking talent. They are really screwed if some guys don't waive but at least most have value. It would be ideal for them to move Stamkos and McDonagh