2020-2021 St. Louis Blues: Well, ****.

[Spektre]

Schwartz ROR Perron
Schenn Thomas Tarasenko
Sanford Bozak Kyrou
Clifford Sundqvist Blais

Barbashev/Mac/DLR/Kostin

Krug Parayko
Scandella Faulk
Dunn Bortuzzo

Gunnarsson/Perunovich/Mikkola

Even with Tarasenko on LTIR that’s a playoff team. Everyone knows anything is possible in the playoffs.

C’mon January

 

[bleedblue1223]

Hmmm, I might challenge you on that. From 2016-17 through 18-19 their TOI and ATOI were just about identical, and Faulk outscored Slavin in every season except 18-19. Slavin is one of the best two-way defensemen in the NHL, and I imagine his usage saw a lot more ES ice time. We need a Hurricanes fan on here to help us! Anyway, minor quibble. I appreciate your position.

They got split like Petro/Parayko or Petro/Shattenkirk. When Slavin got his #1 role, Faulk starting getting his 55+% offensive zone starts, and it's when Carolina fans started saying he was overrated on here. Definitely still heavily used, but one definitely carried the defensive load.

And I'm not arguing this is a reason that he'll bounce back, just that it's a possibility, and something that we have to hope for. I just hope Berube doesn't have the idea of Krug/Faulk or Dunn/Faulk. I will be curious to see how pairings and usage end up.

 

[Blueline2757]

This is Pietrangelo's interview with Vegas. He doesn't look happy through out most of it. Something must've happened in regards to his relation to the Blues. Not sure what how or who exactly is the cause but that is the vibe I'm getting from reading his body language. As I said he doesn't look happy. He also said he was happy to play in Vegas and he didn't look happy while saying it. And near the beginning he was talking about St. Louis, I could tell he was getting a little bit emotional but held it together.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Yeah, I'm not saying he offered what Bergeron or Marchand have. Bergeron has a 3 team trade list in his final 2 years.

I'd say Marchand also took a financial discount, but he signed his new deal in September 2016, which was right after his first 30+ goal season, and directly before his ppg+ breakout, so if he waited he would've earned more.

And how different would Army's stance have been if Petro was a few years younger like Bergeron and Marchand when they signed their current deals? Petro will essentially be 31 when the next season starts, much less meat on the bone in his case.

I don't know.

It certainly might have changed things, although some of the things he said about NMCs in that interview make me at least question that.

Either way, we have kind of circled back around to this contract really being about the next 4ish years for the Blues, and for Vegas for that matter, not the years at the very end. It's great if you can stretch your value by getting to it a year or two earlier so there's a bit less potential for dead weight at the back, though I'd argue the Blues got a decent amount of compensatory value in the last couple of years of Pietrangelo's last contract to make up for that not happening.

 

[Ranksu]

And don't get me wrong, I'm not banking on Faulk bouncing back, but it's just a reality that we have to see it through for him in a top 4 role on his right side with a consistent partner.

Bounching back from what? If he isn't given 1st powerplay and best o-zone start he won't produce. Now Krug in, I don't see Faulk getting 1st powerplay. Maybe Faulk will get 2nd powerplay and all Parayko's minutes goes to 5on5 + PK, well somebody has to defend the net.

Realistically Pietro's points away, Faulk should automatically get more points which makes his contract at least something worth of. This is broken record, Faulk style of game doesn't just fit in Blues system, but this has noted last year ago. You can't teach almost 30-years old dmen to play differently what he has been playing over +10 years. When you lack of hockey IQ, its not easy to make them play better.

Faulk is what he's. I think people had just absurd expectations about him. 2 time all-star, damn that guy must be stellar.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I don't know.

It certainly might have changed things, although some of the things he said about NMCs in that interview make me at least question that.

Either way, we have kind of circled back around to this contract really being about the next 4ish years for the Blues, and for Vegas for that matter, not the years at the very end. It's great if you can stretch your value by getting to it a year or two earlier so there's a bit less potential for dead weight at the back, though I'd argue the Blues got a decent amount of compensatory value in the last couple of years of Pietrangelo's last contract to make up for that not happening.

Don't disagree, I don't anticipate Army opening up that much on NMC. It'll be interesting to see how the Parayko negotiations go. He'll be 29 at the start of his next deal. Does Parayko take a next step where he can legitimately demand a NMC or does he not quite hit that level and Army is able to be fine with a NTC or M-NTC? O'Reilly's next deal will start in the season that he's turning 33 in the middle of it, so who knows how that one goes. We know how his last negotiation went, and Army will definitely not want to go full term on that one IMO.

 

[rumrokh]

Something must've happened in regards to his relation to the Blues.

Or in regards to his agent, what they led him to expect, and how they approached negotiation.

Could be unrelated, but Schwartz left Newport last month while all of this weirdness was going on.

 

[simon IC]

Schwartz ROR Perron
Schenn Thomas Tarasenko
Sanford Bozak Kyrou
Clifford Sundqvist Blais

Barbashev/Mac/DLR/Kostin

Krug Parayko
Scandella Faulk
Dunn Bortuzzo

Gunnarsson/Perunovich/Mikkola

Even with Tarasenko on LTIR that’s a playoff team. Everyone knows anything is possible in the playoffs.

C’mon January

I admire, but don't share, your optimism. That defense ... Right now Colorado, Dallas, LasVegas, and Minnesota all have better defense corps than we do. Vancouver and Calgary have improved on the blue line too. We no longer have the best defense in the Conference, in fact, we are not even close. I would say we are more of a bubble team now. We will be fighting for a wild card spot.

 

[Blueline2757]

Or in regards to his agent, what they led him to expect, and how they approached negotiation.

Could be unrelated, but Schwartz left Newport last month while all of this weirdness was going on.

I'm starting to buy the notion that Petro's agent gave him bad advice and badly misplayed and Army saw right through it. Hence why he was so quick to get Krug. That's my theory.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

The problem with this hypothetical is that it doesn't really match up with what we know of the early negotiations.

It was reported that Pietrangelo's camp approached Armstrong first about completing an extension, not to tell him they were going to explore the market and see what the highest bid was, and it was Armstrong who put the talks off. This has been supported by a number of subsequent tidbits thrown around by a lot of different sources.

What's more, if you're dead set on going to the highest bidder, why would you try to complete something with the Blues at all prior to the UFA period? How can you know if you're going to the highest bidder if you never actually talk to the other bidders? No matter what the Blues offer, there's always the chance that someone else would top it. Wouldn't you just ask for the Blues offer and tell them you'll get back to them after the UFA period starts?

Trying to complete something before the FA period only makes sense if Pietrangelo had a checklist of things he wanted for whatever reason, and if the Blues could give him those things, then he would sign. That's not a "I'm going to the highest bidder no matter what" scenario. It's just a "this is what I want" scenario...a scenario which meshes with the other facts that we know about just fine, and paints Pietrangelo in a whole lot less mercenary and antagonistic light.

Fair enough. I’m not as confident that we have accurate enough information to know how the early negotiation period went.

Dissecting Armstrong’s publicly known actions, it does look like he was pretty skeptical that a deal would be reached, or perhaps that he had some reservations about giving out the 8 year contract in the first place. I think the NMC has been almost a distraction from the larger issue of the bonus structure. I don’t actually think the NMC was the obstacle some think. They were a lot further apart on the bonus structure, and it really doesn’t sound like St Louis ever came anywhere close to fulfilling that.

Watching Pietro’s interview in Vegas, there was a moment where he said he watched the Vegas team in the playoffs and felt he could fit the style of play, then immediately amended the statement to clarify that he meant he started thinking that way on Saturday. It seemed like a slip of the truth in the first instance. I think in the bubble, both parties already had a pretty good idea he was going to move on, and he had already targeted the Golden Knights as his preferred destination.

Maybe I’m reading too much into it.

I’m glad we got to enjoy a magical Cup run. I’m not as pessimistic as many here about the Cup window slamming shut. But I think even when you have a good enough team to win, you have to have the right bounces. The Blues will have another swing or two at it with this group. But they were never a heavy favorite to win the conference, and they still aren’t.

 

[TheDizee]

I'm starting to buy the notion that Petro's agent gave him bad advice and badly misplayed and Army saw right through it. Hence why he was so quick to get Krug. That's my theory.

oh his agents screwed up big time. we are honestly lucky to have army as a gm, i like the guy more and more every year

 

[simon IC]

I am still absolutely livid about what Doug Armstrong has done to my defense. I have always been defense first in my philosophy, and I firmly believe that defense wins championships. I even have a personal stake in the matter, in that defense was my position when I played in my youth. It is a position that is dear to my heart. Whenever I watch the Blues play I am always focused on the D. I watched Doug Armstrong construct a defense that was arguably the best in the League, a defense that was crucial in winning a Stanley Cup. I was so proud of that team, and in particular, that defense. In the past 14 months or so I have watched that crumble. I see a defense corps now that is at best 5th best in the Conference. Armstrong's choices have been abysmal. So, yes I am still angry, and I am sorry if I have been short with some of you, but I really expected better from our GM.

 

[Blueline2757]

I am still absolutely livid about what Doug Armstrong has done to my defense. I have always been defense first in my philosophy, and I firmly believe that defense wins championships. I even have a personal stake in the matter, in that defense was my position when I played in my youth. It is a position that is dear to my heart. Whenever I watch the Blues play I am always focused on the D. I watched Doug Armstrong construct a defense that was arguably the best in the League, a defense that was crucial in winning a Stanley Cup. I was so proud of that team, and in particular, that defense. In the past 14 months or so I have watched that crumble. I see a defense corps now that is at best 5th best in the Conference. Armstrong's choices have been abysmal. So, yes I am still angry, and I am sorry if I have been short with some of you, but I really expected better from our GM.

I hear you Simon. I'm the same way. Defense wins championships. When I played hockey that was also my position I was an Pietrangelo type player. Maybe I should call the Blues. When I watch a Blues game or any game for that matter I'm always lasered focus studying the D. I've always liked the Blues D and it's the same D that's been crumbling by Armstrong. I'm angry as well. I don't know the hell Armstrong is thinking.

 

[simon IC]

I hear you Simon. I'm the same way. Defense wins championships. When I played hockey that was also my position I was an Pietrangelo type player. Maybe I should call the Blues. When I watch a Blues game or any game for that matter I'm always lasered focus studying the D. I've always liked the Blues D and it's the same D that's been crumbling by Armstrong. I'm angry as well. I don't know the hell Armstrong is thinking.

That is really cool, Vollie27! There are a few of us here that have played hockey at some level. I know EastonBlues22 and Blues 67 both played defense, and I think there are more. I played until I was 14, when I suffered a serious groin pull. People giggle at groin pulls, but believe me, they are no laughing matter! You can't walk! Anyway, by the time I healed, had I discovered girls and guitars, so hockey took a back seat. Still, I can hear my coaches voice to this day. "Stop watching the puck!" "Play the man!" Lol! Anyway, thanks for sharing. It's nice to hear about peoples backgrounds. Anyway, not to derail the thread. I am really upset at the direction the Blues are taking in terms of the defense.

 

[sfvega]

I am still absolutely livid about what Doug Armstrong has done to my defense. I have always been defense first in my philosophy, and I firmly believe that defense wins championships. I even have a personal stake in the matter, in that defense was my position when I played in my youth. It is a position that is dear to my heart. Whenever I watch the Blues play I am always focused on the D. I watched Doug Armstrong construct a defense that was arguably the best in the League, a defense that was crucial in winning a Stanley Cup. I was so proud of that team, and in particular, that defense. In the past 14 months or so I have watched that crumble. I see a defense corps now that is at best 5th best in the Conference. Armstrong's choices have been abysmal. So, yes I am still angry, and I am sorry if I have been short with some of you, but I really expected better from our GM.

I thought after the Cup win that, no matter what, if we got rid of Eddy that our D would be better. How wrong I was. So incredibly wrong.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

Something happened

He talks about "taking on a new challenge"
Then talks about the first option always being STL
Then says that "taking on a new challenge" was taken out of context
Then talks about looking forward to the new challenge
IMO lots of waffling that masking something he really doesn't want to talk about

I feel bad for the guy in a way. It's either shitty advice from his agent, a shitty incident with someone in STL, or a series of events that kind of spiraled out of control that he might now regret.

In another way, sometimes change is good. We all do it. New jobs, change of career, etc. Something to shake up our lives, go to the next level, etc. It's rare to find someone these days who starts and finishes his career with the same company/organization. Pro sports is no different, it seems.

Petro is financially secure and he's on a good team. He has new challenges ahead of him and a growing family. I wish him luck.

 

[Xerloris]

I want Steen lifting the cup as our statue, not Petro.

 

[TheDizee]

Something happened

He talks about "taking on a new challenge"
Then talks about the first option always being STL
Then says that "taking on a new challenge" was taken out of context
Then talks about looking forward to the new challenge
IMO lots of waffling that masking something he really doesn't want to talk about

I feel bad for the guy in a way. It's either shitty advice from his agent, a shitty incident with someone in STL, or a series of events that kind of spiraled out of control that he might now regret.

In another way, sometimes change is good. We all do it. New jobs, change of career, etc. Something to shake up our lives, go to the next level, etc. It's rare to find someone these days who starts and finishes his career with the same company/organization. Pro sports is no different, it seems.

Petro is financially secure and he's on a good team. He has new challenges ahead of him and a growing family. I wish him luck.

Well this tends to happen when someone is not telling the truth, the story changes over and over because they are not being honest. Soon as he said it was taken out of context, it was game over for him lol.

Shouldn't feel bad for him, he is making absurd money to play a game and he chose this path. Nobody held a gun to his head and said this is how it's gonna be so deal with it.

If he really wanted to be here, be could have made that happen, numerous times. He wanted the most money per year and it really is as simple as that.

 

[Stealth JD]

And people are being overly negative about our group. If Faulk bounces back to Carolina days, our group isn't that different from Boston's group. For some that might be a big leap of faith, and for others it's a smaller leap.

Carolina Faulk wasn’t that good. He had a few seasons with high goal-scoring totals, but he still wasn’t a driver of offense or particularly good in his own end. Canes fans didn’t see his trade as much of a loss, felt he wasn’t worth the contract he got and have never been all that high on his overall level of play. He’s a taller Shattenkirk with better hair, slightly more physical and stronger in board battles but worse at running a power-play or transitioning the offense.

 

[Mike Liut]

I want Steen lifting the cup as our statue, not Petro.

I’d rather have ROR than Steen

 

[Stealth JD]

I want Steen lifting the cup as our statue, not Petro.

I want the statue to be Thorburn raising the Cup.

 

[BlueOil]

Schwartz ROR Perron
Schenn Thomas Tarasenko
Sanford Bozak Kyrou
Clifford Sundqvist Blais

Barbashev/Mac/DLR/Kostin

Krug Parayko
Scandella Faulk
Dunn Bortuzzo

Gunnarsson/Perunovich/Mikkola

Even with Tarasenko on LTIR that’s a playoff team. Everyone knows anything is possible in the playoffs.

C’mon January

barbashev has to be a regular in the line up, no? he and sundqvist are our motors

 

[Honeycutt]

I am just so glad to see so many people here are still working for their first employer. I mean It would be crazy and stupid to take more money in a different city to take on new challenges in life, I mean we should just all take the standard and not try to achieve other things.

Also, i am super mad a Doug because he did not break the obvious policies Tom Stillman implemented and wanted him to follow to ensure financial viability for a mid to small-market team. I mean heck we should just do what ever because there is such a great economic outlook over the next 1-4 years, I mean we are all just livin the merican dream right now.

This Blues fan is happy with how the Blues handled this situation. Good luck to Petro I look forward to 27 rising to the rafters in 2029 the 10 year anniversary of our 1st championship.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Carolina Faulk wasn’t that good. He had a few seasons with high goal-scoring totals, but he still wasn’t a driver of offense or particularly good in his own end. Canes fans didn’t see his trade as much of a loss, felt he wasn’t worth the contract he got and have never been all that high on his overall level of play. He’s a taller Shattenkirk with better hair, slightly more physical and stronger in board battles but worse at running a power-play or transitioning the offense.

I'm not saying he was all that great, we just need him to get back to being a quality 2nd pairing guy, that's what he's suited for.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I want Steen lifting the cup as our statue, not Petro.

I want ROR, Perron, or Steen. Or Pat Maroon for the shits and giggles.