Speculation: 2020-2021: Sharks Roster Discussion Part 5

[Doctor Soraluce]

He was great in the first 3 rounds in '16, too. Maybe Pittsburgh was too good, or Polak was too bad for me to notice in that series haha.

That's how I remembered it too. I thought he made good adjustments in the Pitt series too but it hinged on a heathy Hertl. Once he went down it was over. His ability to change the teams strategy in the playoffs is the one thing I think the team will really miss. I don't remember another coach for the Sharks doing that effectively.

I'm only annoyed that they didn't have someone better than Haley to sub in. Donskoi wasn't playing worthy of top-9 minutes and needed to be better.

People seem to have romanticized views of some players after they leave. Donkey was awful for long stretches, usually related to injury because his tiny bird body can't hang for long durations in the NHL. Especially in the playoffs where guys are really trying to hit to hurt.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

The Jets signed Trevor Lewis. Maybe this means they’ll move Roslovic. I’m still hoping.

Just read an article about RFA's... Another guy that looks like he would be great to get who seems to want out is Borgstrom (?) from FLA. Sharks get one or even both of these guys somehow and that changes their entire prospect pool outlook.

Saarela looks interesting too.

8 NHL RFAs remain unsigned: Latest rumours, reports

 

[Cas]

Just read an article about RFA's... Another guy that looks like he would be great to get who seems to want out is Borgstrom (?) from FLA. Sharks get one or even both of these guys somehow and that changes their entire prospect pool outlook.
8 NHL RFAs remain unsigned: Latest rumours, reports

Borgstrom was a teammate of Dylan Gambrell in Denver.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Borgstrom was a teammate of Dylan Gambrell in Denver.

Not really familiar with him but the stuff I've read so far looks like he could be a legit #1 in the next few years. Just hasn't had a chance to prove it yet.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Not really familiar with him but the stuff I've read so far looks like he could be a legit #1 in the next few years. Just hasn't had a chance to prove it yet.

No, he really doesn't look like that at all.

He was considered a little bit of a reach when drafted, but had a great freshman year in his D+1 season. He did it again as a soph. But his progress has stalled and his game away from the puck never developed.

How many #1 Cs were .5 ppg as 23 year olds in the AHL? At best he can be a sheltered middle 6 C, but more likely is that he goes back to Liiga for his career. Lots of talk about him being a bit entitled and not taking the organization's instructions and feedback constructively, and rather just wanted stuff handed to him.

 

[Pavelski2112]

People seem to have romanticized views of some players after they leave. Donkey was awful for long stretches, usually related to injury because his tiny bird body can't hang for long durations in the NHL. Especially in the playoffs where guys are really trying to hit to hurt.

I'd agree that Donskoi shouldn't have played higher than the 4th line in the playoffs, but he was still miles better than Haley even at his worst. PDB tried to make a point, and it hurt the team as a whole.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

I'd agree that Donskoi shouldn't have played higher than the 4th line in the playoffs, but he was still miles better than Haley even at his worst. PDB tried to make a point, and it hurt the team as a whole.

And you're sure he wan't hurt? It was the playoffs, Donkey had to be injured... He was always injured in the playoffs.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

No, he really doesn't look like that at all.

He was considered a little bit of a reach when drafted, but had a great freshman year in his D+1 season. He did it again as a soph. But his progress has stalled and his game away from the puck never developed.

How many #1 Cs were .5 ppg as 23 year olds in the AHL? At best he can be a sheltered middle 6 C, but more likely is that he goes back to Liiga for his career. Lots of talk about him being a bit entitled and not taking the organization's instructions and feedback constructively, and rather just wanted stuff handed to him.

Sounds like a perfect candidate for a change of scenery. Do you have an article that states that or is this HF conjecture? You sure you got the right guy? He's 22 right now so should adjust your expectation for his AHL numbers maybe? I'll assume if the Sharks trade for him, they will have done their due diligence and come to the conclusion that he's worth acquiring. At this point I'm good in trusting DW jr in these types of evaluations.

My main point of linking the article was to show 3 guys on the unsigned RFA list that DW should be looking at to bolster the Sharks prospect pool. All 3 are better pedigree players than most if not all sharks prospects in camp other than Merkley and maybe Leonard IMO. All 3 are also centers which the Sharks have a real need for on that 3rd line.

 

[Pavelski2112]

And you're sure he wan't hurt? It was the playoffs, Donkey had to be injured... He was always injured in the playoffs.

I mean, that's a possibility, but it seemed very clear throughout chunks of the season that PDB wanted more from Donskoi. I mean, we all did.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Sounds like a perfect candidate for a change of scenery. Do you have an article that states that or is this HF conjecture? You sure you got the right guy? He's 22 right now so should adjust your expectation for his AHL numbers maybe? I'll assume if the Sharks trade for him, they will have done their due diligence and come to the conclusion that he's worth acquiring. At this point I'm good in trusting DW jr in these types of evaluations.

My main point of linking the article was to show 3 guys on the unsigned RFA list that DW should be looking at to bolster the Sharks prospect pool. All 3 are better pedigree players than most if not all sharks prospects in camp other than Merkley and maybe Leonard IMO. All 3 are also centers which the Sharks have a real need for on that 3rd line.

1) He's not 22, as I said, he's 23 and will be 24 in August
2) He absolutely could use a change of scenery. Like many teams who have guy play well at a lower level (college/jrs) the Panthers decided to mostly skip the AHL and put him in the NHL before he was truly ready. While he had "some" early success, his lack of overall game didn't win the trust of coaches, and when sent to the AHL even he talked about the disappointment.
3) Right now he is unsigned and a restricted free agent. He is signed for the rest of the season in Liiga,where he is also performing fairly unremarkably. It's believed he has an out clause, but with the bubble and everything, I don't even know if he could play on an NHL roster this year. So you are more talking about adding him for next year, which at that point he'll be a 24 year old player who would only come here if assured NHL time. He has less value than Lias Andersson had. He'd arguably be worth a late 2nd rd pick I guess....


I like Saarela more, but I wouldn't call him a C at all. He's been playing RW for Lukko. Also, lots of word from Finland that he is staying there for the year as well. He refused h is qualifying offer, so I think he wants out of FLA (it's not like he deserves more $ so it must be unhappiness with not really getting a chance in the NHL).

 

[LadyStanley]

Paywall. Winging it?

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

1) He's not 22, as I said, he's 23 and will be 24 in August
2) He absolutely could use a change of scenery. Like many teams who have guy play well at a lower level (college/jrs) the Panthers decided to mostly skip the AHL and put him in the NHL before he was truly ready. While he had "some" early success, his lack of overall game didn't win the trust of coaches, and when sent to the AHL even he talked about the disappointment.
3) Right now he is unsigned and a restricted free agent. He is signed for the rest of the season in Liiga,where he is also performing fairly unremarkably. It's believed he has an out clause, but with the bubble and everything, I don't even know if he could play on an NHL roster this year. So you are more talking about adding him for next year, which at that point he'll be a 24 year old player who would only come here if assured NHL time. He has less value than Lias Andersson had. He'd arguably be worth a late 2nd rd pick I guess....


I like Saarela more, but I wouldn't call him a C at all. He's been playing RW for Lukko. Also, lots of word from Finland that he is staying there for the year as well. He refused h is qualifying offer, so I think he wants out of FLA (it's not like he deserves more $ so it must be unhappiness with not really getting a chance in the NHL).

The article I linked says he's 22. I guess they got it wrong... The article says he has an NHL clause. Not sure if it's confirmed. Pretty sure he can still play in the NHL this season. The cut off is later in January if I remember correctly. I could be wrong though.

EDIT - Actually found this... I'm going to stick with my initial assertion that the Sharks should try to get him despite his prior relationship with BB. Put him on the 3rd line with Leonard and Gregor or Gamby for familiarity and see what he can do. Guy sounds like a steal and I would bet he can be had for relatively cheap.
Florida Panthers: Henrik Borgstrom Needs More Minutes to Succeed

"In essence, Borgstrom has demonstrated that he is well above average in various categories, most notably being in his skating, vision, puck handling, shooting, and passing.

Moreover, he’s also proven himself as a fairly responsible player on the defensive end, performing adequate performances on both ends of the ice. However, now it’s time for Borgstrom to put it all together offensively and show that he is capable of upping his production.

Ultimately, Borgstrom deserves significantly more minutes during the 2020 NHL campaign. He will unequivocally develop into a premier top-nine forward (and one day, top six!) if managed properly by legendary coach Joel Quenneville."


As far as Sarella, they list him as center/wing and a playmaker which this team could desperately use especially if he's a RW.

Like I said, Im not married to any of the 3 players being discussed but adding them for the right price would help fill a gap in the current Sharks prospect pool.

 

[stator]

He's only on PTO until they can put someone on LTIR, then he's signing (reportedly). It's just a paperwork thing because teams can't assign players to LTIR yet.

Seems to me that a guy like Hoffman can get a full contract and not have to go the PTO bridge route. Perhaps he only wanted to play there, and restricted his marketplace?

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Seems to me that a guy like Hoffman can get a full contract and not have to go the PTO bridge route. Perhaps he only wanted to play there, and restricted his marketplace?

They apparently had a handshake deal that once they could make the cap room thru LTIR he would get signed. I think he wanted to go there as they are a contender.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Seems to me that a guy like Hoffman can get a full contract and not have to go the PTO bridge route. Perhaps he only wanted to play there, and restricted his marketplace?

I believe he did the PTO so he could start the quarantine process (I believe there’s a two week quarantine when joining a new team) and sign the real contract once the season starts.

 

[Reggae Shark]

Paywall. Winging it?

This is a great article. Interesting, hilarious and depressing all in one read.

I don't love everything Sheng does lately. But I love his site and I really love how proactive he his about interviewing scouts of other teams. If you don't pay the $3 a month to read this site you should start.

So many great responses from
the 3 scouts.

Scout #3: [Doug Wilson] seems to be that way when our group talks to him. He always thinks he’s got a lot in the minors. I’m like, f***, what’s he watching? Maybe he does. Maybe he sees something I really don’t.
You gotta have more than the bones.
It’s almost like they’re trying to create an illusion, that we’re okay.

 

[Barrie22]

This is a great article. Interesting, hilarious and depressing all in one read.

I don't love everything Sheng does lately. But I love his site and I really love how proactive he his about interviewing scouts of other teams. If you don't pay the $3 a month to read this site you should start.

So many great responses from
the 3 scouts.

Scout #3: [Doug Wilson] seems to be that way when our group talks to him. He always thinks he’s got a lot in the minors. I’m like, f***, what’s he watching? Maybe he does. Maybe he sees something I really don’t.
You gotta have more than the bones.
It’s almost like they’re trying to create an illusion, that we’re okay.

Damn if that is an actual quote from an actual shark scout then yes wilson does seem out of it.

 

[NiWa]

Damn if that is an actual quote from an actual shark scout then yes wilson does seem out of it.

I don't have a subscription to read the article, but I think it was implied that it's from NHL scouts that aren't part of the Sharks organisation.

 

[Reggae Shark]

I don't have a subscription to read the article, but I think it was implied that it's from NHL scouts that aren't part of the Sharks organisation.

Correct.

Sheng gives no info except that the 3 scouts are from other NHL teams. Which really makes it intriguing, to me at least. I always like to hear pro opinions when it comes to Shark prospects. Mostly due to the fact that DW doesn't give us any real info and we're left to interpret his moves or non moves on our own.

The important info is that other NHL professionals can't seem to understand why DW does what he does. The scouts agreed the team has good bones at the moment, and there are good prospects in the system now but the prospects can't help anytime soon and the core will be too old by the time they can. In addition there's nothing but bones.

DW is so tight lipped, he really seems to operate like a politician, just smiles and paints a positive picture of the best case scenario. I have always really liked DW, he has been incredible for the city and the club, if nothing else, bringing Jumbo in is worthy of saint hood. But the tight lipped stuff is getting old and his always positive outlook is starting to seem misleading and slightly disingenuous.

Vegas making the decision to stream their entire camp on every platform while the sharks potentially streaming 2 scrimmages 2 weeks into camp is the organization missing the point again on what fans want (i realize it's difficult with not being home this year, it would be so simple to stream camp). But i also think this falls into DW keeping the club tight lipped like him, he comes from a time when things like training camp were closed door team only things. But that's the sort of stuff endears fans to the organization and the players nowadays.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Correct.

Sheng gives no info except that the 3 scouts are from other NHL teams. Which really makes it intriguing, to me at least. I always like to hear pro opinions when it comes to Shark prospects. Mostly due to the fact that DW doesn't give us any real info and we're left to interpret his moves or non moves on our own.

The important info is that other NHL professionals can't seem to understand why DW does what he does. The scouts agreed the team has good bones at the moment, and there are good prospects in the system now but the prospects can't help anytime soon and the core will be too old by the time they can. In addition there's nothing but bones.

DW is so tight lipped, he really seems to operate like a politician, just smiles and paints a positive picture of the best case scenario. I have always really liked DW, he has been incredible for the city and the club, if nothing else, bringing Jumbo in is worthy of saint hood. But the tight lipped stuff is getting old and his always positive outlook is starting to seem misleading and slightly disingenuous.

Vegas making the decision to stream their entire camp on every platform while the sharks potentially streaming 2 scrimmages 2 weeks into camp is the organization missing the point again on what fans want (i realize it's difficult with not being home this year, it would be so simple to stream camp). But i also think this falls into DW keeping the club tight lipped like him, he comes from a time when things like training camp were closed door team only things. But that's the sort of stuff endears fans to the organization and the players nowadays.

The scouts also said what I’ve been saying, they’re not trying to compete this year and it’s looking like a “reset” year.
DW must’ve gotten buy off from Hasso since their won’t be any gate revenue this year anyways, so this would be the best year to have a down year financially.

Only problem is the 21-22 season attendance will suffer if they tank this year too because the more casual fans will assume they’re going to suck again, even if the roster looks good.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Damn if that is an actual quote from an actual shark scout then yes wilson does seem out of it.

Scouts were from other teams. One of the scouts also says that the Sharks would know their players better than these external scouts would. Makes sense since the Sharks watch them more, talk to them more and are the ones advising them on what they need to work on. I wouldn't stress a whole lot about it frankly. Scouts are wrong all the time. Sharks have done a pretty good job turning mid to late picks into NHLers over the years. They're due for another hit. They've also done well bringing in late bloomers locally and from Europe. Just look at the Labanc, Chi twins, Blichfeld, BP, Handy, etc, etc... Personally I think at least one of these young guys is going to put up 15 to 20 goals in the shortened season as a breakout player. Competition is fierce for so many guys who are on the cusp. Everyone is going to be on their A game trying to earn a spot. Very curious to hear how the scrimmage goes today.

The scouts also said what I’ve been saying, they’re not trying to compete this year and it’s looking like a “reset” year.
DW must’ve gotten buy off from Hasso since their won’t be any gate revenue this year anyways, so this would be the best year to have a down year financially.

Only problem is the 21-22 season attendance will suffer if they tank this year too because the more casual fans will assume they’re going to suck again, even if the roster looks good.

Those scouts also said they didn't bring other guys in because that they were trying to give their internal guys the opportunity to fill the starting spots. Thought they had a few guys knocking on the door to the NHL but none appeared to be high end. Frankly some of their comments lead me to believe they haven't actually looked at any of the prospects.

Scout#1 sounds like he's never watched any of the prospects Sheng is asking about, Scout#2 sounds like he's watched most and had the most detailed insights, Scout#3 has to be a college scout since he really only knew college players and Handy. #3 had the most harsh things to say but sounded like he knew the least. Bet he's a scout for a rival team.

Who will make up the bottom 6 -
"Scout #2: Sorensen, Gregor first. Maybe Handemark, then Nieto."
(#2 has a clue about the team. The other 2 scouts didn't have a clue and couldn't name anyone until scout #2 named these guys). Sounds like they were on a 4 way zoom call with Sheng.

Other comments -
"Scout #1: They know their own prospects better than we do; they must be pretty content with where they’re at.
Scout #1: Some of it is, I feel like they owe certain guys an opportunity to show what they can do."

"Scout #3: There’s a plan there somewhere. He’s done this before. He’s had some good success, so I’m not going to write him off."

As far as attendance...
If Covid is under control attendance won't suffer even a little. I bet it's sell outs for most sports teams especially in the Bay Area. People are going to want to go out and do shit. Everyones tired of being stuck at home.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Scouts were from other teams. One of the scouts also says that the Sharks would know their players better than these external scouts would. Makes sense since the Sharks watch them more, talk to them more and are the ones advising them on what they need to work on. I wouldn't stress a whole lot about it frankly. Scouts are wrong all the time. Sharks have done a pretty good job turning mid to late picks into NHLers over the years. They're due for another hit. They've also done well bringing in late bloomers locally and from Europe. Just look at the Chi twins, Blichfeld, BP, Handy, etc, etc... Personally I think at least one of these young guys is going to put up 15 to 20 goals in the shortened season as a breakout player. Competition is fierce for so many guys who are on the cusp. Everyone is going to be on their A game trying to earn a spot. Very curious to hear how the scrimmage goes today.

Those scouts also said they didn't bring other guys in because that they were trying to give their internal guys the opportunity to fill the starting spots. Thought they had a few guys knocking on the door to the NHL but none appeared to be high end. Frankly some of their comments lead me to believe they haven't actually looked at any of the prospects.

Scout#1 sounds like he's never watched any of the prospects Sheng is asking about, Scout#2 sounds like he's watched most and had the most detailed insights, Scout#3 has to be a college scout since he really only knew college players and Handy. #3 had the most harsh things to say but sounded like he knew the least. Bet he's a scout for a rival team.

If Covid is under control attendance won't suffer even a little. I bet it's sell outs for most sports teams especially in the Bay Area. People are going to want to go out and do shit. Everyones tired of being stuck at home.

All three of the scouts also said they might be marginally better than last year, but they’ll probably still be pretty much the same position as last year, so obviously that’s a common opinion between the professionals, which I agree with.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

All three of the scouts also said they might be marginally better than last year, but they’ll probably still be pretty much the same position as last year, so obviously that’s a common opinion between the professionals, which I agree with.

It wasn't all 3 scouts. And they didn't say what you claim at all. #2 sounds like he's more optimistic about where they are with their prospects this season.

"Scout #2: Their top-five is pretty set — after that, you really don’t know how it’s going to go.
I thought they were reaching with their depth a little more last year than they are this year. I think they’re in better shape this year."

#2 also really like Nieto and thinks he has more to offer with better line mates. Not as a 2nd line player but thinks he has some skill and has now rounded it out as a defensive player.

Only 1 & 2 commented on the long term outlook. Niether seemed to acknowledge the fact that the Sharks lost their top 3 scorers at various points during the season and were coached by an imbecile for the 1st part of the season as well. Frankly I think last years team with BB as HC from training camp and no long term injuries to Couture, Hertl and EK65 and that team makes the playoffs easily. If they won 7 of the games they lost last season they would have been a playoff team. Considering how bad they were at the beginning when everyone was relatively healthy I think that would have been easily achievable prior to all the injuries.

 

[themelkman]

You have to remember Sheng worked on Vegas and LA projects before, so these scouts are likely guys he met at those jobs and stayed in contact with.

 

[Erep]

Frankly I think last years team with BB as HC from training camp and no long term injuries to Couture, Hertl and EK65 and that team makes the playoffs easily.

Not only that, even with PDB as coach, and the slow start, the Sharks were playing dominant hockey, and trending toward an easy playoff spot until the Hertl injury.