OT: 2019 Football Thread: Part II – Free Agency and The Draft

[BroadwayStorm]

Man this kid has so much poise. They hit him so much today and he just kept coming. He's a worthy successor to Eli Manning. Almost like a modern NFL version of him. He has that stupid face that turns evil mid way through a play and drops dimes like its nothing. He has to work on pocket awareness because he is too fearless when it comes to pressure around him and that's why hes fumbled.

 

[darko]

So many people backflipping right now haha.

 

[Kovalev27]

Man that was awesome that kid is special.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

Only one game against the Bucs, but he definitely looked good for sure.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

If this continues DG is vindicated for 2 years of shit he's gotten by so-called experts. We had people on this board last year (albeit facetiously) comparing drafting Saquon to drafting a punter because RB is undervalued. Should have drafted a QB in the last f***ing draft a QB was available. What a f***ing joke.

 

[Fvital92]

If this continues DG is vindicated for 2 years of **** he's gotten by so-called experts. We had people in this year last year (albeit facetiously) comparing drafting Saquon to drafting a punter because RB is undervalued. Should have drafted a QB in the last ****ing draft a QB was available. What a ****ing joke.

He is still a bad GM, his trades were abysmal and he doesn't have a healthy relationship with players.
But I have tô give credit when its due, It seems he hit a homerun with Daniel Jones.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

If this continues DG is vindicated for 2 years of **** he's gotten by so-called experts. We had people in this year last year (albeit facetiously) comparing drafting Saquon to drafting a punter because RB is undervalued. Should have drafted a QB in the last ****ing draft a QB was available. What a ****ing joke.

None of that is false still. RB is undervalued nowadays. You don't need an elite one to win.

Jones could have still been drafted at 17 or in the 2nd round, even if he does turn out to be a good QB.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Jones looked good today but lets pump the brakes here. He had one good game. The young man has much more time to prove he's legit before I plan the parade.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

None of that is false still. RB is undervalued nowadays. You don't need an elite one to win.

Jones could have still been drafted at 17 or in the 2nd round, even if he does turn out to be a good QB.

Gurley, Kamara, Elliot, all play on very good teams. And Barkley isn't just any RB, he has GOAT potential. The bullshit about Jones being able to be drafted at 17 or in the 2nd round has been debunked over and over. And even if it IS true, who the f*** cares if he becomes a franchise QB? Lots of people thought Mahomes would have been drafted at the end of round 1. The Chiefs really f***ed that up didn't they?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

He is still a base GM, his trades were abysmal and he doesn't have a healthy relationship with players.
But I have tô give credit when its due, It seems he hit a homerun with Daniel Jones.

Zeitler was a very good trade. The OBJ trade is not looking great now, but it's still TBD. But for one blown coverage TD OBJ hasn't done shit all season so far.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Seriously, how many people have to come out and say that there was plenty of interest for Jones and how many years do we have to see QBs drafted higher than expected for people to get in through their skulls that if the Giants thought Jones was the real deal it would be gross negligence to wait to #17? And once again, will anyone remember that we took him at 6 and not 17 if he becomes a franchise QB? It's like the narrative of "LMAO! Acorssi was taken to the wood shed on the trade for Eli". No one gave a f*** on February 3rd, 2008. This is a bullshit, lazy narrative.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Also, this would be Darnold's best game in NFL to date. Give me the possible future HOFer at RB and DJ any day of the week.

 

[SA16]

Gurley, Kamara, Elliot, all play on very good teams. And Barkley isn't just any RB, he has GOAT potential. The bull**** about Jones being able to be drafted at 17 or in the 2nd round has been debunked over and over. And even if it IS true, who the **** cares if he becomes a franchise QB? Lots of people thought Mahomes would have been drafted at the end of round 1. The Chiefs really ****ed that up didn't they?

Kamara wasn’t an early pick, Elliot has been great but got drafted to a team that found a good QB late and also to a team that was good and only had the opportunity to pick so high because of a QB injury, and Gurley is basically going to be a bust for where he was taken given his knee condition unless you consider 2-3 great years and that’s it adequate production from a pick taken as high as he was. When these RBs miss games the betting lines do not move at all.

As I’ve said before I think Barkley is a bad pick at 2 even if he’s a hall of fame level RB and Jones is a much more defensible pick at 6 if the scouting department believes in him as a franchise QB.

Jones was great today. Absolutely a good start. But you should probably consider that TB as the worst pass D in the NFL last year. He has another good matchup this week against Washington so I expect another good game.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Kamara wasn’t an early pick, Elliot has been great but got drafted to a team that found a good QB late and also to a team that was good and only had the opportunity to pick so high because of a QB injury, and Gurley is basically going to be a bust for where he was taken given his knee condition unless you consider 2-3 great years and that’s it adequate production from a pick taken as high as he was. When these RBs miss games the betting lines do not move at all.

As I’ve said before I think Barkley is a bad pick at 2 even if he’s a hall of fame level RB and Jones is a much more defensible pick at 6 if the scouting department believes in him as a franchise QB.

Jones was great today. Absolutely a good start. But you should probably consider that TB as the worst pass D in the NFL last year. He has another good matchup this week against Washington so I expect another good game.

Kamara wasn't an early pick but he's still elite. The question was whether RBs are important not about where they get drafted. Sure, the Giants could have gotten an elite RB later in the draft, but it would have taken a lot of luck, they'd have to find the one RB that's elite. It's not as much of a long shot because RBs COULD be had later on, more than QBs, but it's still like saying, well Brady was a 6th rounder and Montana was a 3rd rounder, so don't take the QB high.

Gurley's injuries may hurt him and yes I understand that's a risk of playing RB. That's still something you can't necessarily predict. Though I do think Gurley had injuries at Georgia, so less defensible. But it's still not really relevant to Barkley who has never had injury problems as far as I know and played every game last year. Yes, it does look like he'll miss time now, but well football is a violent game.

Elliot WAS that team till this year where it looks like Dak finally took that next step. He also had an amazing line but he was a huge part of that team. No one is saying that RBs are the only or even most important part of the team but it's f***ing ridiculous to say they're not important.

Also, he was a bad team because they didn't take a QB? Was that the last draft they could have taken a QB? None of these QBs from that year look like Aaron Rodgers, at least not yet. And Jones could be as good as any of them.

Finally, I don't give a shit about Tampa's defense last year. Look at the Giants' defense in 2015, 2016, and 2017. Awful, great, awful. Things change year in year out. Their pass D this year INCLUDING the 330+ game by Jones is 20th in the league, not great but close to average.

 

[BMOK33]

Kamara wasn’t an early pick, Elliot has been great but got drafted to a team that found a good QB late and also to a team that was good and only had the opportunity to pick so high because of a QB injury, and Gurley is basically going to be a bust for where he was taken given his knee condition unless you consider 2-3 great years and that’s it adequate production from a pick taken as high as he was. When these RBs miss games the betting lines do not move at all.

As I’ve said before I think Barkley is a bad pick at 2 even if he’s a hall of fame level RB and Jones is a much more defensible pick at 6 if the scouting department believes in him as a franchise QB.

Jones was great today. Absolutely a good start. But you should probably consider that TB as the worst pass D in the NFL last year. He has another good matchup this week against Washington so I expect another good game.

Barkley IMO is only a good pick at 2 for a team that is ready to win right away. As it turns out if he misses half this season it might not be the worst thing. He has less wear and tear in a season the team isn’t going anywhere regardless. That said I don’t take a QB in 2018 I probably take Ward or Chubb then go Allen followed by Jones in 2019. Without Barkley last year and with Chubb or Ward it’s hard to say if the Giants record is worse or better so they’d likely have not slotted 6th in the draft so maybe they’d have gotten Williams or Ferrell followed by Jones at 17

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Barkley IMO is only a good pick at 2 for a team that is ready to win right away. As it turns out if he misses half this season it might not be the worst thing. He has less wear and tear in a season the team isn’t going anywhere regardless. That said I don’t take a QB in 2018 I probably take Ward or Chubb then go Allen followed by Jones in 2019. Without Barkley last year and with Chubb or Ward it’s hard to say if the Giants record is worse or better so they’d likely have not slotted 6th in the draft so maybe they’d have gotten Williams or Ferrell followed by Jones at 17

Dude, over and over people have come out and said there were teams that would have taken Jones before 17. There are conflicting reports. So no that's not a guarantee, but when you have conviction in your guy you don't play around and try to get the absolute best scenario and risk losing him. QBs every year get taken earlier than expected why the hell risk losing what you think is a franchise QB? This is ridiculous.

 

[BMOK33]

Dude, over and over people have come out and said there were teams that would have taken Jones before 17. There are conflicting reports. So no that's not a guarantee, but when you have conviction in your guy you don't play around and try to get the absolute best scenario and risk losing him. QBs every year get taken earlier than expected why the hell risk losing what you think is a franchise QB? This is ridiculous.

The rumors I saw said that it was Miami and Washington. Those were 13 and 15. I have to think Giants could have traded up to 10-12 once they got wind of that. I guess the big question mark is was Buffalo one of those teams? I never heard they were but if so the Giants likely wouldn’t have been able to trade up that far

 

[Boris Zubov]

Gurley, Kamara, Elliot, all play on very good teams. And Barkley isn't just any RB, he has GOAT potential. The bull**** about Jones being able to be drafted at 17 or in the 2nd round has been debunked over and over. And even if it IS true, who the **** cares if he becomes a franchise QB? Lots of people thought Mahomes would have been drafted at the end of round 1. The Chiefs really ****ed that up didn't they?

There's no way to know that with any certainty. No team is going to truthfully admit their draft plans after the fact, regardless of what they're saying in print. Other than Washington, what teams would've realistically taken Jones in the 1st round?

 

[Boris Zubov]

The rumors I saw said that it was Miami and Washington. Those were 13 and 15. I have to think Giants could have traded up to 10-12 once they got wind of that. I guess the big question mark is was Buffalo one of those teams? I never heard they were but if so the Giants likely wouldn’t have been able to trade up that far

Sorry I'm not buying it. Miami was not taking him. If they wanted a QB, why didn't they take Haskins?

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

Also, this would be Darnold's best game in NFL to date. Give me the possible future HOFer at RB and DJ any day of the week.

If DJ becomes a good QB, perhaps.

Regardless, you don't take an elite RB (even as good as Barkley) over a potential franchise QB. If it works out for the Giants, that's because Barkley managed to stay healthy long-term, and Jones became at least a good QB at minimum.

 

[Boris Zubov]

If DJ becomes a good QB, perhaps.

Regardless, you don't take an elite RB (even as good as Barkley) over a potential franchise QB. If it works out for the Giants, that's because Barkley managed to stay healthy long-term, and Jones became at least a good QB at minimum.

Not saying Getty made the correct call with Barkley, but none of the QBs taken after him have proven much of anything thus far.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Jones wasn't a "sexy" pick because the Giants have never had a dual threat QB. It turns out he may actually be one.

Ball security is going to be something he needs to improve on. Hopefully the OLline continues to improve talent wise over the next few years.

OBJ hasn't done anything this year. Guy hasn't done much in the league other than one great regular season and a YouTube catch.

 

[TheTimTamSlammerMan]

Dang how many quarterbacks lead the team in rushing as well in their first career game?

 

[Ghost of jas]

Seriously, how many people have to come out and say that there was plenty of interest for Jones and how many years do we have to see QBs drafted higher than expected for people to get in through their skulls that if the Giants thought Jones was the real deal it would be gross negligence to wait to #17? And once again, will anyone remember that we took him at 6 and not 17 if he becomes a franchise QB? It's like the narrative of "LMAO! Acorssi was taken to the wood shed on the trade for Eli". No one gave a **** on February 3rd, 2008. This is a bull****, lazy narrative.

Phil Simms has said he knows for a fact that there was interest in Jones and that he likely was not going to be available at 17, from his sources around the league.

 

[SA16]

Kamara wasn't an early pick but he's still elite. The question was whether RBs are important not about where they get drafted. Sure, the Giants could have gotten an elite RB later in the draft, but it would have taken a lot of luck, they'd have to find the one RB that's elite. It's not as much of a long shot because RBs COULD be had later on, more than QBs, but it's still like saying, well Brady was a 6th rounder and Montana was a 3rd rounder, so don't take the QB high.

Gurley's injuries may hurt him and yes I understand that's a risk of playing RB. That's still something you can't necessarily predict. Though I do think Gurley had injuries at Georgia, so less defensible. But it's still not really relevant to Barkley who has never had injury problems as far as I know and played every game last year. Yes, it does look like he'll miss time now, but well football is a violent game.

Elliot WAS that team till this year where it looks like Dak finally took that next step. He also had an amazing line but he was a huge part of that team. No one is saying that RBs are the only or even most important part of the team but it's ****ing ridiculous to say they're not important.

Also, he was a bad team because they didn't take a QB? Was that the last draft they could have taken a QB? None of these QBs from that year look like Aaron Rodgers, at least not yet. And Jones could be as good as any of them.

Finally, I don't give a **** about Tampa's defense last year. Look at the Giants' defense in 2015, 2016, and 2017. Awful, great, awful. Things change year in year out. Their pass D this year INCLUDING the 330+ game by Jones is 20th in the league, not great but close to average.

There’s so much data on this showing how the effect RBs have is minimal and that they are for the most part interchangeable and a product of the offensive lines. The elite ones provide most of their additional value with pass catching/pass blocking but passes to RBs are generally very low EPA plays because they are typically very short. There are exceptions of course. David Johnson actually lines up as a WR a lot so he catches more than just dump offs. All that combined with their injury risk and short careers means it makes no sense to take one early unless as a last piece to a team that is already good - which can only happen if you’re a good team drafting early basically because you had a bad year due to injury like the Steelers and Saints may this year (not that those teams need a RB). Here is one article - the first google result - Running backs don’t matter – The Miscellany News. It's from a student paper and I am sure there are articles to the contrary but there's no real opinion on his article everything is data and cited from the initial source of where it came from.

Well you probably should care about the TB D instead of just ignoring it. It’s one of the worst pass defenses in the league. The fact that they are 20th isn’t important. It’s two games (three now). If the Senators play their first three games this year and allow a total of five goals are we going to say they are a good defensive team now. Just because they only play 16 games in the NFL doesn't mean 2 or 3 games tells you all that much. Beside TB has faced some of the weakest QB competition so far with Garropolo who came off an atrocious preseason and Cam who looked like he couldn’t throw at all the first two weeks. Jones had a great game in an easy matchup. That’s a very good thing. You wouldn’t want to see him struggle in that matchup.