2019-2020 St. Louis Blues - Defending the Cup - Part 3: The Prelude to Playoff Positioning

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Pretty sure the fanbase won’t need help from management to recall the first ever Stanley Cup victory.
And people don't need help from management remembering the guys who have statues and jersey numbers in the rafters.

Honoring numbers/players/moments isn't about helping fans who lived through it remember the event. They are about honoring what happened and memorializing them for future fans who didn't live through it.
 
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Pretty sure the fanbase won’t need help from management to recall the first ever Stanley Cup victory.
I want to be able to tell my kids about it. Your comment is very narrow-sighted. There are many facets of the journey to celebrate, and many ways this team became dear to its fans. But institutional memory is a quirky thing. Young fans and new fans need to have ways to take in the history, and old fans like us need anchors to fasten our memories to.
 
It's interesting that Faulk was on the ice last night after the Rangers pulled their goalie in an attempt to score. Is it proof of trust by the Chief?
 
It's interesting that Faulk was on the ice last night after the Rangers pulled their goalie in an attempt to score. Is it proof of trust by the Chief?
He’s on the penalty kill, powerplay, and gets top 4 minutes. Of course Chief trusts him. He’s a good player.
 
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He’s on the penalty kill, powerplay, and gets top 4 minutes. Of course Chief trusts him. He’s a good player.

Many of our fellow forum members seem to think Faulk is incompetent. I was asking my question to inspire thought in the minds of Faulk critics.
 
Many of our fellow forum members seem to think Faulk is incompetent. I was asking my question to inspire thought in the minds of Faulk critics.

Most of the complaining about Faulk is tied directly to the immediate extension he got right after the trade while our Captain, who played a huge role in the teams 1st Stanley Cup Championship sits without an extension. Faulk hadn't even played a game for us yet and he gets a 7 year extension which many of us feel was stupid. I'm sure Armstrong has an end game to this situation buy because we aren't privy to it we can only speculate what that might be. His defending has also been brought up as a negative but this issue is multifaceted so it's not all about his play on the ice. It's the usage, his play, his extension, a much much better player in Petro who doesn't have a contract etc.
 
Most of the complaining about Faulk is tied directly to the immediate extension he got right after the trade while our Captain, who played a huge role in the teams 1st Stanley Cup Championship sits without an extension. Faulk hadn't even played a game for us yet and he gets a 7 year extension which many of us feel was stupid. I'm sure Armstrong has an end game to this situation buy because we aren't privy to it we can only speculate what that might be. His defending has also been brought up as a negative but this issue is multifaceted so it's not all about his play on the ice. It's the usage, his play, his extension, a much much better player in Petro who doesn't have a contract etc.
Meh on the Pietro extension here. There are two sides to every negotiation. Pietro’s side wants more than they’ve been offered. Faulk was cool with the deal. But Faulk’s negotiation was coupled to the trade itself. They wouldn’t have made that deal if they hadn’t already come to common ground. Pietro’s hard deadline is free agency. The same pressures to reach common ground haven’t existed yet.

Your comment paints it like Armstrong is neglecting Pietro. I don’t believe that for an instant. If Pietro walks, we’ll have to see what gets leaked regarding the offers. Only then will we know which side to blame (or both). It’s possible Pietro has photos in Maple Leaf pajamas too, regardless of the contract. (I don’t really believe that, but just illustrating that Armstrong has limited influence here.)

Faulk’s contract is fine. We are starting to hear about the cap going up more than some expected. A couple years like that and Faulk’s contract will look pretty unremarkable toward the end. Will that be on the Blues? Dunno.
 
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Meh on the Pietro extension here. There are two sides to every negotiation. Pietro’s side wants more than they’ve been offered. Faulk was cool with the deal. But Faulk’s negotiation was coupled to the trade itself. They wouldn’t have made that deal if they hadn’t already come to common ground. Pietro’s hard deadline is free agency. The same pressures to reach common ground haven’t existed yet.

Your comment paints it like Armstrong is neglecting Pietro. I don’t believe that for an instant. If Pietro walks, we’ll have to see what gets leaked regarding the offers. Only then will we know which side to blame (or both). It’s possible Pietro has photos in Maple Leaf pajamas too, regardless of the contract. (I don’t really believe that, but just illustrating that Armstrong has limited influence here.)

Faulk’s contract is fine. We are starting to hear about the cap going up more than some expected. A couple years like that and Faulk’s contract will look pretty unremarkable toward the end. Will that be on the Blues? Dunno.

I'm not suggesting Petro is being neglected. Renard seems to think the Faulk criticism is due to people here thinking he's incompetent and certainly he's faced criticisms about his defending but people's angst regarding Faulk is more complicated than that which is what I tried to illustrate. For some it's his usage here, for some it's his lack of production, for some it's the extension, for some it's that Petro isn't locked up longterm yet and for some it's the pairings being unsettled all season long. My point is that when people criticize Faulk it's not always his individual play, there are other factors that play a role in why negative valence is attached to him.
 
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I'm not suggesting Petro is being neglected. Renard seems to think the Faulk criticism is due to people here thinking he's incompetent and certainly he's faced criticisms about his defending but people's angst regarding Faulk is more complicated than that which is what I tried to illustrate. For some it's his usage here, for some it's his lack of production, for some it's the extension, for some it's that Petro isn't locked up longterm yet and for some it's the pairings being unsettled all season long. My point is that when people criticize Faulk it's not always his individual play, there are other factors that play a role in why negative valence is attached to him.
The new Brewer?
 
Meh on the Pietro extension here. There are two sides to every negotiation. Pietro’s side wants more than they’ve been offered. Faulk was cool with the deal. But Faulk’s negotiation was coupled to the trade itself. They wouldn’t have made that deal if they hadn’t already come to common ground. Pietro’s hard deadline is free agency. The same pressures to reach common ground haven’t existed yet.

Your comment paints it like Armstrong is neglecting Pietro. I don’t believe that for an instant. If Pietro walks, we’ll have to see what gets leaked regarding the offers. Only then will we know which side to blame (or both). It’s possible Pietro has photos in Maple Leaf pajamas too, regardless of the contract. (I don’t really believe that, but just illustrating that Armstrong has limited influence here.)

Faulk’s contract is fine. We are starting to hear about the cap going up more than some expected. A couple years like that and Faulk’s contract will look pretty unremarkable toward the end. Will that be on the Blues? Dunno.
Faulk is on pace for 18 pts and he's not exactly a stud defender.....his contract is not fine. At his best, his contract is "meh". He needs to be better then what he was in Carolina.
 
I'm convinced that Faulk needs a full training camp to really show his worth. Just hasn't been able to adapt yet.

He does seem to be playing a bit better recently. Needs to stop with all the turnovers and giveaways.
 
I don’t see him getting much of any PP time which will lead to a decrease in points. I don’t think that management knew that AP would be the PP qb we have been missing since Shatty.

At the beginning of this season, the guys who you would have expect to get PP time would be Faulk and Dunn. Can’t complain about the results,but I think most figured Faulk would be QBing the top unit. At worst second, instead.....

He isn’t going to produce a ton without PP time. Nature of being a defender.

I don’t fault Armstong for feeling we needed to do something on the PP. it disappeared at critical points last year and in the playoffs. If there was an area to upgrade it would be that.

We got the better player in the trade. It just hasn’t worked. Without more PP time, he isn’t going to put up points and therefor that contract will not look good.
 
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Pietro will get a statue of him lifting a cup. He's the first Blue in history to touch it, is one of the best if not the best Blues defenseman in history, and if he signs this extension will likely be one of if not the longest tenured Blue in history. There is no way he doesn't get a statue and have his number retired. And I'm sure they'll put up another statue or something inside commemorating everyone who was apart of the cup run.
 
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Many of our fellow forum members seem to think Faulk is incompetent. I was asking my question to inspire thought in the minds of Faulk critics.
How very noble of you. I admit that I have been highly critical of Justin Faulk in many of my posts, and I had thought that a detailed analysis of his play, based on my eye test, would have been sufficient to support my contention that his style of defending is not a fit for the Blues system. Perhaps I need to learn more about advanced stats, and provide everyone with charts and graphs. I have also stressed that adding a right PMD, who has never played well on his "off side", either forces him or one the other 3 RD's to the left where none of them are in the optimal place to succeed. I have also addressed the difficulties surrounding his contract, but I think that is discussed sufficiently above. Inasmuch as I find it heartwarming to see Blues HF members rallying around Faulk, perhaps we could have a discussion around how exactly he benefits the Blues, instead of comments like "He's fine", or "he's a good player", and posts that attempt to vilify his detractors.
 
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I'm convinced that Faulk needs a full training camp to really show his worth. Just hasn't been able to adapt yet.

He does seem to be playing a bit better recently. Needs to stop with all the turnovers and giveaways.
I don’t understand why he would need a full training camp. He’s been in the NHL for a while, it shouldn’t take very long to adapt.

I do wonder what he’s feeling internally. Perhaps he has put a lot of pressure on himself being the new guy on a Cup team with a big contract.

Scandella seems to have come and fit right in. Maybe it’s just his personality that helps with that. I just don’t really get the same vibe that this has happened for Faulk yet, but obviously this is a guess because I don’t know.
 
How very noble of you. I admit that I have been highly critical of Justin Faulk in many of my posts, and I had thought that a detailed analysis of his play, based on my eye test, would have been sufficient to support my contention that his style of defending is not a fit for the Blues system. Perhaps I need to learn more about advanced stats, and provide everyone with charts and graphs. I have also stressed that adding a right PMD, who has never played well on his "off side", either forces him or one the other 3 RD's to the left where none of them are in the optimal place to succeed. I have also addressed the difficulties surrounding his contract, but I think that is discussed sufficiently above. Inasmuch as I find it heartwarming to see Blues HF members rallying around Faulk, perhaps we could have a discussion around how exactly he benefits the Blues, instead of comments like "He's fine", or "he's a good player", and posts that attempt to vilify his detractors.
I think some (many?) of us are at the point where there is no value to furthering discussion because people are fairly locked in on their positions. Ultimately, it matters most what the coaching staff thinks of him and his utilization suggests that they are happier with his play than most people on this board.
 
Pietro will get a statue of him lifting a cup. He's the first Blue in history to touch it, is one of the best if not the best Blues defenseman in history, and if he signs this extension will likely be one of if not the longest tenured Blue in history. There is no way he doesn't get a statue and have his number retired. And I'm sure they'll put up another statue or something inside commemorating everyone who was apart of the cup run.
I don't think there is any discussion about him getting a statue if he signs an extension. He's 49 games back of Jax for the most games played by a D man in franchise history, so he obviously hits that mark if he signs an extension. But more importantly, he is just 174 games shy of playing the most games as a Blue at any position. Any extension means he is hitting that number barring catastrophic injury. Even if he becomes brittle and suffers numerous big injuries, he would rack up another 174 over the life of that extension. Realistically, an extension probably means he plays another 400+ games with the Blues and would hold the franchise record by a couple hundred. An extension means that he will play more games with the organization than any other player AND be the first player in franchise history to lift the Cup. There is zero question about Petro getting a statue if he extends.

The only question is whether he would get one if he walks this summer. I think he would but it is not certain.
 
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Faulk is on pace for 18 pts and he's not exactly a stud defender.....his contract is not fine. At his best, his contract is "meh". He needs to be better then what he was in Carolina.

I would gladly accept if he could just "be" what he was in Carolina.

18 points from an offensive defenseman at this point in the year is awful.

And while I think it has more to do with our entire defense being fantastic, he allows, or even creates, the most high danger chances against out of any of our guys, by far.

I think we are slightly better having Faulk. Which isn't good enough for 6.5 million over the next decade. I'm waiting for Armstrong's plan with Pietrangelo before I lose my mind about it though. If they sign Petro anyway, then I don't really care.
 
I think some (many?) of us are at the point where there is no value to furthering discussion because people are fairly locked in on their positions. Ultimately, it matters most what the coaching staff thinks of him and his utilization suggests that they are happier with his play than most people on this board.
Fair enough. I am tired of arguing about the subject myself. It just makes me angry when it is suggested that I need to re-think my position. I am in no way claiming to be more of an expert than anyone on this board, but I will give myself credit for knowing just a little bit about what I'm talking about. I think I have good reason to be critical of Justin Faulk, and of the circumstances created by his addition to the team. As for his recent utilization, that is a point well taken, but keep in mind the situation created by Bouwmeester's sudden departure. JBo was eating a lot of minutes, and as good as Scandella has been, they coaching staff is not going to trust Marco with that much icetime. I think Faulk has been getting more ice time because of the situation, and his presence on the PK might suggest that they are grooming Faulk to inherit some of JBo's duties. While I am skeptical that this experiment will succeed, I will happily eat crow if it does.
 
Uh ... back to playoff positioning?? Blues vs Avs

Blues have 15 games, Avs 16. Avs win a tie (regulation wins). Blues up by two points.

If the Blues go 10-5 the Avs would have to play 11-5 to tie, etc, etc. Seems likely it comes down to the season finale in Colorado.
 
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Uh ... back to playoff positioning?? Blues vs Avs

Blues have 15 games, Avs 16. Avs win a tie (regulation wins). Blues up by two points.

If the Blues go 10-5 the Avs would have to play 11-5 to tie, etc, etc. Seems likely it comes down to the season finale in Colorado.
That is going to be a very, very interesting game.
 
I'm convinced that Faulk needs a full training camp to really show his worth. Just hasn't been able to adapt yet.

He does seem to be playing a bit better recently. Needs to stop with all the turnovers and giveaways.
He's 27 -years old. He's what he's and it won't improve, rather downgrade. If you can't find your game in 60GP you don't find it training camp. Scandella just came in to team and right away first games he's was mesh in and perfect fit.

Next season will be 6.5mill.$ x 7-years. That will be terrible. Over half of decade. Even 4.833mill.$ is too much imo what Faulk brings in the table and it doesn't help he is misused.
 
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