Speculation: 2019-2020 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Pavelski2112]

Saw someone post that Sharks had interest in Alex Edler. Which, like, why? To replace EK65? He's 33 and while not bad, I dunno...

I would've loved Edler, 5 years ago.

 

[STL Shark]

I really like Edler but a 38 year old Edler in that fourth year would suck. I think he’s going to have a hard time getting a fourth year, but don’t think 3*6M is out of the question.

At 4.5M that’s a pretty good contract but you’d need to count on Ryan for 30 games (which for SJ works out okay).

If Gardiner is likely maxing out at $7 mil a year, I don't see Edler sniffing $6 mil on a 3+ year deal. Max in my mind is $5 million, but I don't think he even gets that high for reasons discussed earlier. I don't see him taking more money to go to a non-contender at this point in his career and most contenders are going to have cap issues of varying degrees.

 

[LadyStanley]

Don't we have to protect Kane because of his modified NTC.

Maybe. In VGK expansion draft, the NHL ruled that some MNTC were so restrictive they were defacto NMCs so required teams to protect player.

My guess is that DW wouldn't offer that kind of NTC.

So I'm not as sure.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I really like Edler but a 38 year old Edler in that fourth year would suck. I think he’s going to have a hard time getting a fourth year, but don’t think 3*6M is out of the question.

At 4.5M that’s a pretty good contract but you’d need to count on Ryan for 30 games (which for SJ works out okay).

We literally gave Paul Martin a 4 year deal at this age at 4.85 to come here. If we're trying to get someone to pick us in free agency, and Edler is a better player, that's probably what we're looking at paying.

 

[one2gamble]

We literally gave Paul Martin a 4 year deal at this age at 4.85 to come here. If we're trying to get someone to pick us in free agency, and Edler is a better player, that's probably what we're looking at paying.

Edler already plays in a shitty travel division though

 

[Dicdonya]

You must have already forgotten all the years that we were slow and big including 2016 when the Pens skated around our boys like they were telephone poles. This team was built perfectly this year but had no system. It doesn’t matter how we construct this team if the coaches running it have no idea how to utilize them.

I disagree this team was ever built big and slow, and it’s certainly never been physical since I’ve been paying close attention.

Past teams that had cores with players like Heatley, Boyle, Marleau, Pavs, Cheechoo, Seto, Cooch etc are not big slow teams. Some of those players are slow but not big, fast but not big, big but not slow, etc. This team has never been filled with big physical players like I said I would be ok with above. Just because we’ve had a couple guys like Thornton, Clowe, Murray etc that are big and slow, I don’t agree the team as a whole was primarily filled with guys like those at any point.

Also when I say slower, I mean like Hertl slow, not Pavs slow. I think a team filled with players of Hertls physical abilities would not be at a disadvantage in today’s nhl. Where some others seem to think the league is going towards teams filled with McDavid-Esque speed players who are small, and we should follow suit.

Also I disagree Pitt won because of speed. They won because Hertl got hurt throwing all our lines out of whack, and then capitalizing on it with a crazy good third line that worked out for a whopping one year. Just because a guy like Polak got victimized by Pitt does not mean all players of Polaks size and speed would get owned just the same.

Colorado is a small fast team and we handled them just fine, without one of the single best players in the league on their team, they wouldn’t even sniff the playoffs, or be any threat to us in the playoffs like they were, despite being a young fast team.

I just think speed is starting to get overrated in the nhl, and at some point if that trend towards small, shifty players keeps progressing, some GM will take advantage of it by putting together a team so big and strong that, combined with the pitifully lax interference rules, will be able to manhandle the small fast teams and just go where ever they want whenever they want by out muscling them.

Anyways, I highly highly doubt DW is going to dramatically change this teams identity by next year, so it’s sort of a moot point to be arguing over anyways.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Also I disagree Pitt won because of speed. They won because Hertl got hurt throwing all our lines out of whack, and then capitalizing on it with a crazy good third line that worked out for a whopping one year. Just because a guy like Polak got victimized by Pitt does not mean all players of Polaks size and speed would get owned just the same.

Colorado is a small fast team and we handled them just fine, without one of the single best players in the league on their team, they wouldn’t even sniff the playoffs, or be any threat to us in the playoffs like they were, despite being a young fast team.

Colorado didn't have Phil Kessel on the 3rd line and two of the greatest players of the past 25 years centering each of their top two lines.

Losing Hertl was awful, but even so, Pittsburgh skated circles around us. It's a miracle we won two games.

 

[SactoShark]

I would've loved Edler, 5 years ago.

Hertl wouldn't.

 

[Jaleel619]

Hertl wasn't looking.

 

[Dicdonya]

Colorado didn't have Phil Kessel on the 3rd line and two of the greatest players of the past 25 years centering each of their top two lines.

Losing Hertl was awful, but even so, Pittsburgh skated circles around us. It's a miracle we won two games.

Of course Colorado didn’t and I’m pretty sure I did not say they did. What I was saying is that one of the fastest, and youngest teams in the nhl would have been mince meat if not for Mackinnon, therefore speed was a largely useless trait when not paired with elite skills like Mack has.

We will just have to disagree about the finals, I don’t remember that being a speed issue but a matchup issue, especially once our most dominant line in a decade or more, got broken up by injuries, however I will admit that my recollection of events 3years ago could be hazy.

However all of this doesn’t really get to my point, which was not that I want to be a slow team, but that I said I was OK getting slower if the speed was being replaced with big, strong, a specifically physical players of equal skill.

For example, of all the potential trades and FAs last year, the one I wanted most was Stone. I did not see the need for Karlsson, and Tavares I was lukewarm about because I feel we already had better center depth than winger depth and I didn’t want to pay him 12+ mil. Stone is the type of big, strong, physically capable player I’m arguing I’d be fine getting over a guy like Nyquist for example who is IMO the faster player. I’d still choose Stone even if Nyquist was equally as talented as Stone, because I think Stones style, and literal size, is better suited for playoff hockey.

So unless you disagree with the point in my last two paragraphs, we don’t need to be arguing about other stuff that happened years ago, as it does not really apply to what I’m actually attempting to get across.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Of course Colorado didn’t and I’m pretty sure I did not say they did. What I was saying is that one of the fastest, and youngest teams in the nhl would have been mince meat if not for Mackinnon, therefore speed was a largely useless trait when not paired with elite skills like Mack has.

Colorado's success during the season and against Calgary was in huge part due to Mack. However, he was completely shut down for most of our series. Their depth outplayed our depth for a lot of the series, and a lot of that was due to speed and execution. Vegas has always been a tough matchup for us precisely because of how fast they move the puck as well. We didn't beat these teams because speed isn't an issue, we beat them despite it.

To clarify, I'm not purely talking about just player speed. Hell, even Polak had ok straight-line speed, and so does Haley. But speed in a team structure does make a big difference in the modern NHL.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

 

[LadyStanley]

Ryan a RFA. Only way I don't see him returning is due to trade.



NHL Trade Board: Top 20 players who could move this summer

Paywall. Guesstimates top 20 trade candidates. No Sharks. But perhaps guys they might inquire about acquiring.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Edler's a good player to get if Karlsson doesn't return. I don't see how they could afford him otherwise but I would prefer to find a way for that to happen.

 

[Jargon]

Eklund suggests Sharks are in on Kessel, so Kessel is going to Sweden.

 

[STL Shark]

Would be very comfortable with Vlasic-Edler-Simek down the left side of the defense.

I don't see Ryan going anywhere though in that situation as mentioned in the tweet because you have a guy perennially injured in Edler as well as a guy in Simek coming off an ACL tear with only 41 games of NHL experience on top of it. So you use Ryan as the 7D unless someone wants to overpay for him. Also don't see how Heed has any bearing on what the Sharks do re: Edler as Heed plays on the right side while Edler is a left shot (unless there is another move planned to get a top 4 D-Man in addition to Edler and bump Braun to the 3rd pairing where Simek will be stuck dragging him around all season).

 

[Patty Ice]

Ryan a RFA. Only way I don't see him returning is due to trade.



NHL Trade Board: Top 20 players who could move this summer

Paywall. Guesstimates top 20 trade candidates. No Sharks. But perhaps guys they might inquire about acquiring.

The article does mention the Sharks interest in Namestnikov at the deadline and might explore that avenue again.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

The article does mention the Sharks interest in Namestnikov and might explore that avenue again.

If we are trading with the Rangers, I'd be interested in Kreider.

 

[Coily]

Eklund suggests Sharks are in on Kessel, so Kessel is going to Sweden.

He'll enjoy the meatballs.

 

[Boy Hedican]

Despite all I heard about Pavs loving it here and his kids with Burns’ kids...I also hear he’s unhappy with the org and how they treated his contract VS others. Could be another reason why Patty left. Doug would tell them he doesn’t do 8 years, then he did.

I may have read it too but I heard he hasn’t even talked to DW and doesn’t plan to.

Just like my Marleau West for Wife rumor, it could be just a rumor.

But that one did happen so...

 

[SactoShark]

Hertl wasn't looking.

Edler was suspended 3 games for Hertl's lack of looking.

 

[wishman]

Despite all I heard about Pavs loving it here and his kids with Burns’ kids...I also hear he’s unhappy with the org and how they treated his contract VS others. Could be another reason why Patty left. Doug would tell them he doesn’t do 8 years, then he did.

I may have read it too but I heard he hasn’t even talked to DW and doesn’t plan to.

Just like my Marleau West for Wife rumor, it could be just a rumor.

But that one did happen so...

Might want to read this:

 

[Boy Hedican]

Might want to read this:

I missed that, thanks. I was shocked when I heard what I did. That article is what I’d have guessed.

 

[Dicdonya]

Colorado's success during the season and against Calgary was in huge part due to Mack. However, he was completely shut down for most of our series. Their depth outplayed our depth for a lot of the series, and a lot of that was due to speed and execution. Vegas has always been a tough matchup for us precisely because of how fast they move the puck as well. We didn't beat these teams because speed isn't an issue, we beat them despite it.

To clarify, I'm not purely talking about just player speed. Hell, even Polak had ok straight-line speed, and so does Haley. But speed in a team structure does make a big difference in the modern NHL.

He was not shut down vs us, go look at the stats, he didn’t destroy us but we didn’t shut him down either.

Also IF you think he was shut down vs us that’s even more reason to prove that speed is not that important because while we were able to shut down Mack, we got absolutely bent over by Stone, who is unquestionably slower, and less talented than Mack, and Vegas as a whole is slower than Colorado, and gave us a much harder time than Colorado did.

To your last point, im not arguing that speed is useless, im simply arguing that the obsession with team speed is overblown, and that having an equally talented slower, bigger and stronger team could work just fine. Hell just look at the WCF this year, it was two bigger, slower overall teams, not small fast teams like Colorado or Calgary. Boston too is much more of a big, rough and tumble team than a speedy skill team.

Speed works far better in the regular season, but as long as “playoff reffing” is a thing ,small speedy teams Imo are at a disadvantage in the playoffs.

 

[Barrie22]

5 points and -5 in 7 games is shut down. Atleast that is what i am always told by thornton haters on here.