Speculation: 2019-2020 Sharks Roster Discussion

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STL Shark

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Mar 6, 2013
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And if not, he is the new Eklund.
:D

Kidding aside, he basically says 'according to a league source' so its really not him speculating. The 'belief' is that its around $10-11M a year.
Haha, touche. But point being, if Kurz has heard and reported on it, then it is likely old news and close to being done. Guys like Kurz hate being wrong and love being right so would guess it happens in the next week and Kurz can point back and say "See I told you so"
 

jarr92

Registered User
May 7, 2013
848
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Id wager he would take $1-2M to make it work.

You're really going to say this then question another posters hockey intelligence? This is the worst take I've seen on here in quite awhile.

Anyone that thinks a 38 goal scorer will take a $1M contract loses the right to question the hockey smarts of anyone else without looking extremely foolish.
 

JoeThorntonsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
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Haha, touche. But point being, if Kurz has heard and reported on it, then it is likely old news and close to being done. Guys like Kurz hate being wrong and love being right so would guess it happens in the next week and Kurz can point back and say "See I told you so"

This is correct. The extension is coming soon.

To clarify, I don't have any secret sources or anything but Kurz wouldn't just put out a piece like that and specifically reveal the terms of their contract offer if they weren't close.
 
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Fistfullofbeer

Moderator
May 9, 2011
31,195
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Whidbey Island, WA
Haha, touche. But point being, if Kurz has heard and reported on it, then it is likely old news and close to being done. Guys like Kurz hate being wrong and love being right so would guess it happens in the next week and Kurz can point back and say "See I told you so"
If it does happen, we need to get ourselves ready for:

"Past his prime"
"Always injured"
"Wrong side of 30" (He is 29)
"Contract will be terrible in a few years"

We need to start making a list of this shit so we can take it to the main boards if he does not sign with us .. :)
 

Fistfullofbeer

Moderator
May 9, 2011
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Whidbey Island, WA
All the talk around Perry's trade/buyout made me look at his stats. 10 points in 31 games is terrible for a player making $8.625 M for 2 more seasons.

And then I looked at Kesler. 8 points in 61 games. And he is making 6.875M for 3 more seasons.

Man are those contracts bad or what.
 

Pinkfloyd

Registered User
Oct 29, 2006
71,563
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Folsom
All the talk around Perry's trade/buyout made me look at his stats. 10 points in 31 games is terrible for a player making $8.625 M for 2 more seasons.

And then I looked at Kesler. 8 points in 61 games. And he is making 6.875M for 3 more seasons.

Man are those contracts bad or what.

Yeah but at least with Kesler, he's done next season and will be LTIR'd which likely also includes insurance covering 80% of it. Not so much with Perry.
 
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JoeThorntonsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
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Thanks for the warm welcome, guys...

While we're on the topic of Karlsson, there is some really interesting research I've done into him. Year after year, when Karlsson is on the ice, his actual goals against exceed his expected goals against in a manner that does not occur for his team when he is off the ice. In layman's terms, "expected goal" stats say that Karlsson's goalies suck when he is on the ice, but are much better when he is off the ice. My guess is that there is something about the way that Karlsson plays which makes him a better suppressor of expected goals than actual goals.

The much longer explanation of this is in a PM that I sent to another HFSharks poster, if anybody cares to read it:

The thing with Karlsson is that when it comes to xGA Vs. GA, this wasn't his worst year. It wasn't even close.

Just a disclaimer for the rest of this, I am using Natural Stat Trick's expected goal model. The reason I am doing this is because NST is by far the smoothest site and it easily allows me to look at players' teams with and without them.

Basically, here's how I looked at things. If a defenseman can impact goals against in a manner that does not impact expected goals against, then that should show in comparison to his team when he is not the ice. You pretty much have to control for the team or else the stat is worthless. You could put a beer leaguer in front of Henrik Lundqvist and he would probably allow fewer goals than expected. That wouldn't mean that he is a good defender or that he does something good in the defensive end that isn't quantified by expected goal stats. It just means he plays in front of a good goaltender and if that were the case, you would expect it to show in the numbers that his goaltender posts when he is off the ice.

For example, if Karlsson really does lead to more goals against than expected goals and his team has average goaltending, maybe his team would allow 11 goals for every 10 expected goals he allows, and 10 goals for every 10 expected goals that they allow without him. If the team just has good goaltending or faces bad shooters - say they allow 10 actual goals for every 10 expected goals with Karlsson on the ice, and 9 actual goals for every 10 expected goals - then we can still say Karlsson causes a problem.

In both of these examples, I am calculating his team-relative xGA/GA. So, for the first example of his team allowing 11 goals for every 10 expected goals with him and 10/10 without him, here is how you would calculate it:

TeamGAxGAImpactImpact Percentage
Team with Karlsson1110(11-10)=1((11/10)-1)*100=10%
Team without Karlsson1010(10-0)=0((10/10)-1)*100=0%
Karlsson Relative Impact10%-0%=10%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Basically, you calculate the percentage of extra goals they allow above expected, and compare them to their team without them. It's pretty straight forward stuff but it's kind of hard to explain.

Kind of like stats like CA/60Rel and isolated defensive impact stats, being in the negative is a good thing because you allow less. In this hypothetical case, Karlsson has a 10% positive impact on the goals above expected that his team allows when he is on the ice.

Just to explain things one more time, I'm going to use a slightly different hypothetical example in which Karlsson does a good job of suppressing goals against in comparison to actual goals.

TeamGAxGAImpactImpact Percentage
Team with Karlsson910(9-10)=-1((9/10)-1)*100=-10%
Team without Karlsson1010(10-0)=0((10/10)-1)*100=0%
Karlsson Relative Impact10%-0%=-10%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Now, are you ready for the real Karlsson?

2018-2019:

PlayerGAxGAImpactImpact Percentage
Erik Karlsson7256.3815.6227.70%
Erik Karlsson Team Without189164.8724.1314.64%
Karlsson Relative Impact13.07%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
That's this season. It's worth noting before saying anything else that the reduction in goaltending pads this season has most expected goal models to underestimate the number of expected goals that a team allows. But you're right, everything was going in. His team allowed 15.62 goals more than expected. They allowed 27.70% more goals than expected. That is ridiculous. No matter how much worse than expected those shots actually were, that is still a beer league performance.

However, take a look at the team without him. Yeah, they were still awful. They allowed 24.13 goals more than expected; actually more goals above expected than Karlsson allowed. However, the percentage of goals above expected that they allowed without him is actually about half as much as the percentage that they allowed with him. They faced far more expected goals and expected goals without him so obviously the sum of goals allowed above expected is higher without him. But make no mistake here - Karlsson's presence clearly leads to an increase in goals allowed above expected. They allow 14.64% more goals than expected with him and 27.70% more goals than expected without him. He makes terrible goaltenders worst.

I think you're smart and capable of comprehending all of this, so I'm hoping you get where I've gone so far. I'm just typing this message up without any response so I don't know exactly where you're at in terms of comprehension here but I'm making the assumption that you know what is going on here. I also haven't explained this stuff to anybody except for my mom so I'm not sure how difficult it is to comprehend. Even if you aren't 100% caught up, I suggest that you keep reading and I think that things will actually become much more clear.

This could have just been a bad season, right? I certainly agree that by the eye test, it appears that Karlsson was unlucky all year. When I went into looking at these numbers, I realized that this was something that would heavily fluctuate just based on luck, even if guys didn't individually impact this.

Let's look at other years for Karlsson.

2017-2018:

PlayerGAxGAImpactImpact Percentage
Erik Karlsson12185.2835.7241.89%
Erik Karlsson Team Without178171.426.583.84%
Karlsson Relative Impact38.05%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Yikes. Sure, Craig Anderson sucked and Ottawa was a tire fire, but they still almost matched their expected goals against without Karlsson on the ice. Why did their actual goals against blow their expected goals out of the water without him? Maybe he was just unlucky again.

2016-2017:

PlayerGAxGAImpactImpact Percentage
Erik Karlsson8581.543.464.24
Erik Karlsson Team Without133152.85-19.85-12.99
Karlsson Relative Impact17.23%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
As a whole, the Sens had very good goaltending this year, stopping over 16 goals more than expected. That is a big part of why they made the ECF. But with Karlsson on the ice, they still allowed more goals than expected. Why?

2015-2016:

PlayerGAxGAGoaltending ImpactImpact Percentage
Erik Karlsson11597.0817.9218.46
Erik Karlsson Team Without140169.03-29.03-17.17
Karlsson Relative Impact35.63%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
This is Martin Jones level goaltending with Karlsson on the ice and elite goaltending without him on the ice. What's going on here?

2014-2015:

PlayerGAxGAGoaltending ImpactImpact Percentage
Erik Karlsson8979.279.7312.27
Erik Karlsson Team Without136175.15-39.15-22.35
Karlsson Relative Impact34.63%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
This time, we've got bad NHL level goaltending with Karlsson on the ice, and true Vezina level goaltending without Karlsson on the ice. After looking at this, I was seriously puzzled. Convinced, in fact, that Erik Karlsson did definitely do something on the ice that drove his actual goals above expected. But I had to look at other defensemen. Here are some of the guys that I compared Karlsson to:

Player2014-20152015-20162016-20172017-20182018-20195-Year Sum of Team Relative ImpactAverage Team Relative Impact
Erik Karlsson34.6335.6317.2338.0513.07138.6127.72%
Danny Dekeyser22.4519.2445.3413.915.92116.8523.37%
Braydon Coburn44.7915.156.965.1341.04113.0722.61%
Morgan Rielly10.4130.8438.5626.61-0.19106.2321.25%
Marc-Edouard Vlasic12.8839.5817.644.644.6679.415.88%
Justin Braun14.7125.0514.892.215.3862.2412.45%
Brent Burns25.6418.37-15.412.07-10.0530.636.13%
Brenden Dillon29.97-36.50.231.69-8.3716.993.4%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
I looked at 51 players total; all defensemen who played some time in each of the past 5 seasons. Karlsson's average team-relative impact of goals against over expected goals against was by far the highest of any defenseman on this list. I didn't show them all because I didn't want to overwhelm you with data. The reason that I included DeKeyser, Coburn, and Rielly, is because they were the next 3 defensemen behind Karlsson, and the only 3 to have a higher average team-relative impact than him. The rest were the Sharks defensemen that I included because we know them best and I find that it's always best to look at what you know best when doing this type of analysis.

One thing to note is that their average team relative impact on expected goals was all positive. This was the case for 48 out of the 51 defensemen that I studied I am still trying to look into the nuances of why this is, but my initial conclusion is that most regular NHL defensemen will have a higher team-relative xGA/GA simply because they are playing against NHL level shooters. You bring in a replacement level defender and play him for only 40 games per season, he's only going to play against other team's 4th lines who are generally full of replacement level players that can't shoot. Meanwhile, a full-time NHLer, even one like Brenden Dillon who generally plays against bottom-6ers, is still playing more against full-time NHLers. However, I'm not sold on this explanation yet. I ran a regression and couldn't find a correlation between TOI% QoC and team-relative goals against above expected. That may change as I add more replacement level defensemen with a discernible difference in their TOI% QoC but it hasn't yet. It's possible that this has something to do with which positions play special teams and 6V5 situations - like, maybe this stat will always hurt defensemen because they play more on the PK where xGA tends to exceed GA - I don't know. My biggest fear is that the data is somehow faulty but I don't believe that is the case.

But, let's get back on topic and look at the rest of the Sharks and especially Karlsson. Not only does Karlsson find himself in the mid-30s in 3 out of 5 seasons, he is in the teens in every season. Brent Burns' aggregate is still positive, but has two seasons where he was double digits in the negative. Just in case you're still not 100% on this, let's look at those two seasons in particular:

2018-2019:

PlayerGAxGAImpactImpact Percentage
Brent Burns10694.4711.5312.20
Brent Burns Team Without155126.7828.2222.26
Burns Relative Impact-10.05%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
As you can see, Burns in 2018-2019 played in front of two terrible goaltenders. The same two goalies as Karlsson. When he was out there, they 12.2% more goals than expected. That's horrible. But without him? They allowed 22.26% more goals than expected. Did he really do a great job of suppressing goals that didn't translate to expected goals? I do believe that Burns was better defensively last year and in his Norris year than the other 3, but I'm not convinced that this is anything more than blind luck.

2016-2017:

PlayerGAxGAImpactImpact Percentage
Brent Burns8195.61-14.61-15.28
Brent Burns Team Without121120.860.140.12
Burns Relative Impact-15.40%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
This season, the Sharks actually had slightly good goaltending and they pretty much got all of it when Burns was on the ice. It was dead on average without him.

Before I did this study, I assumed that Burns would be the goalie killer. I thought he was one guy whose turnovers and defensive gaffes frequently led to goals against in a manner that xGF simply could not quantify. However, after looking at this, he's actually not bad. In fact, he ranks 36th out of the 51 defensemen that I looked at, and his average team-relative impact percentage of 6.13% is well below the average 5-year average of 10%.

Looking at the other Sharks, they tend to fluctuate from year to year. Vlasic and Braun never get good team-relative goaltending but that's probably because they have almost always, over this time frame, taken on the bulk of the toughest forward matchups which include the best shooters. If you look at the team-relative impact percentage of the 4 full-time Sharks defensemen, the player with the highest team-relative impact percentage is the one who faces the top competition, and the team-relative impact percentage drops as competition drops. Dillon faces the easiest competition, and he also gets the best goaltending relative to his teammates. It's also worth noting regards to competition, that Erik Karlsson's competition is not generally high. In fact, his TOI% QoC over this time frame - 31.81% - is less than that of "sheltered Burns" who clocks in at 32.24%, and Vlasic who clocks in at 32.85%. So, I'm skeptical that competition is killing Karlsson. Maybe it's because he plays so many minutes that he faces top lines and 2nd lines, and his team without him plays against 3rd and 4th liners? However, Drew Doughty and Ryan Suter play a higher percentage of their team's minutes and still don't get crushed in team-relative impact on xGA/GA like Karlsson does.

There's a lot more that I could write but I just wrote way too much as it is. I'm curious to see what you think of all of this. I haven't ran a regression yet to see if there is year-to-year repeatability on a season-to-season level for each individual defensemen. My initial guess from looking at these is that there is not but I'm not sure. It's also worth saying that I am still a huge fan of Karlsson and would re-sign him at league maximum term and AAV if it was between that and keeping him. His ability to generate xGF, drive his actual GF above xGF, and suppress xGA makes him a massive net positive even despite this. But this is a legitimate concern.

I am still on record as saying that the Sharks should offer Karlsson max term/AAV if that is what it takes to retain him. (Sounds like it will only take the Doughty contract, though.) But the goals against are a real concern for Karlsson and it's not just bad luck either. I'm curious to see what everybody else thinks of this, though.
 
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STL Shark

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Mar 6, 2013
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So with it sounding like EK65 is coming back, here is what I put together in terms of a projected lineup for next season.

Trades as follows:
Trade Braun + 2 of Radil/Perron/Suomela/Equivalent pick to Toronto for Kapanen and retain $800k on Braun to make his cap hit a cool $3 mil for whoever acquires him.
Trade Ryan + late pick to someone for a 2nd
Cap dump Melker and Dell to whoever takes them.

UFA Signings:
Brandon Tanev
Alex Chiasson
Keith Kinkaid
Joe Thornton

Projected lineup from CapFriendly:
2019-20 Sharks.PNG

Think this makes us at least as good as last year as a regular season team, but gives the team a bit more size and more skating ability throughout the lineup for the rigors of the playoffs. With the Ch twins in the AHL and another year for Gambrell (in addition to a few of the Euro signings) I don't think depth should be as much of an issue if there is an injury in the forward group. Desimone as a regular on the 3rd pair is a bit scary to me, but don't see many options out there from a RD perspective. Take a chance with Desimone and if you need to make a deal at the deadline to sure it up, so be it.
 
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Pavelski2112

Bold as Boognish
Dec 15, 2011
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San Jose, California
Think this makes us at least as good as last year as a regular season team, but gives the team a bit more size and more skating ability throughout the lineup for the rigors of the playoffs. With the Ch twins in the AHL and another year for Gambrell (in addition to a few of the Euro signings) I don't think depth should be as much of an issue if there is an injury in the forward group. Desimone as a regular on the 3rd pair is a bit scary to me, but don't see many options out there from a RD perspective. Take a chance with Desimone and if you need to make a deal at the deadline to sure it up, so be it.

There are guys out there in the RD position I'd be ok with. Hell, Taylor Fedun was fine for Dallas, maybe bringing him back could be a good addition.
 

Doctor Soraluce

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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All the talk around Perry's trade/buyout made me look at his stats. 10 points in 31 games is terrible for a player making $8.625 M for 2 more seasons.

And then I looked at Kesler. 8 points in 61 games. And he is making 6.875M for 3 more seasons.

Man are those contracts bad or what.
Look back the previous season with Perry though and it's not as bad. He was fine before the knee injury and likely will be fine again now that he's had more time to recover. No different than how jumbo looked at the 6 month mark after the first knee injury. If he get's bought out I hope he signs crazy cheap for a shot at a cup with the Sharks. Especially if they're able to bring back EK65.

So with it sounding like EK65 is coming back, here is what I put together in terms of a projected lineup for next season.

Trades as follows:
Trade Braun + 2 of Radil/Perron/Suomela/Equivalent pick to Toronto for Kapanen and retain $800k on Braun to make his cap hit a cool $3 mil for whoever acquires him.
Trade Ryan + late pick to someone for a 2nd
Cap dump Melker and Dell to whoever takes them.

UFA Signings:
Brandon Tanev
Alex Chiasson
Keith Kinkaid
Joe Thornton

Projected lineup from CapFriendly:
View attachment 236357

Think this makes us at least as good as last year as a regular season team, but gives the team a bit more size and more skating ability throughout the lineup for the rigors of the playoffs. With the Ch twins in the AHL and another year for Gambrell (in addition to a few of the Euro signings) I don't think depth should be as much of an issue if there is an injury in the forward group. Desimone as a regular on the 3rd pair is a bit scary to me, but don't see many options out there from a RD perspective. Take a chance with Desimone and if you need to make a deal at the deadline to sure it up, so be it.
That forward group is getting worked and won't be able to sustain an injury to one of the big dogs. Are those salaries realistic for any of those UFA contracts?

Thanks for the warm welcome, guys...

While we're on the topic of Karlsson, there is some really interesting research I've done into him. Year after year, when Karlsson is on the ice, his actual goals against exceed his expected goals against in a manner that does not occur for his team when he is off the ice. In layman's terms, "expected goal" stats say that Karlsson's goalies suck when he is on the ice, but are much better when he is off the ice. My guess is that there is something about the way that Karlsson plays which makes him a better suppressor of expected goals than actual goals.

The much longer explanation of this is in a PM that I sent to another HFSharks poster, if anybody cares to read it:

I am still on record as saying that the Sharks should offer Karlsson max term/AAV if that is what it takes to retain him. (Sounds like it will only take the Doughty contract, though.) But the goals against are a real concern for Karlsson and it's not just bad luck either. I'm curious to see what everybody else thinks of this, though.
Maybe if he gets to play with (playoff) Vlassic next season he can help mitigate that issue?
 
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Fistfullofbeer

Moderator
May 9, 2011
31,195
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Whidbey Island, WA
Look back the previous season with Perry though and it's not as bad. He was fine before the knee injury and likely will be fine again now that he's had more time to recover. No different than how jumbo looked at the 6 month mark after the first knee injury. If he get's bought out I hope he signs crazy cheap for a shot at a cup with the Sharks. Especially if they're able to bring back EK65.


That forward group is getting worked and won't be able to sustain an injury to one of the big dogs. Are those salaries realistic for any of those UFA contracts?
That is what I was actually going to ask @STL Shark

Chiasson is 28 years old and had 38 points in 73 games.
Tanev is 27 and just had 29 points in 30 games.

Both are UFA's and looking for a payday. Those numbers are what even an RFA could take you to arbitration for. Don't think the UFA's will take that.

Only reason Jumbo accepts 1.5M is because he is 39 and does not want to move/play anywhere else.

I don't know about Kinkaid enough to evaluate how good he is as a backup. Also, i doubt any team gives us a 2nd for Ryan + 6/7th rounder. On the other hand, I don't think Melker is a cap dump. He could get us anywhere from 5 - 7th rounder. Dell is one though.
 

STL Shark

Registered User
Mar 6, 2013
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That is what I was actually going to ask @STL Shark

Chiasson is 28 years old and had 38 points in 73 games.
Tanev is 27 and just had 29 points in 30 games.

Both are UFA's and looking for a payday. Those numbers are what even an RFA could take you to arbitration for. Don't think the UFA's will take that.

Only reason Jumbo accepts 1.5M is because he is 39 and does not want to move/play anywhere else.
Even if they each get an extra $500k that’s still doable under the cap. Chiasson played some with McDavid this year which explains his super high goal total. Prior to this year he said broke the 30 point mark once and was making $600k. I think $2 mil for that is very fair. Tanev could get a little more, but don’t see more than $2.5 mil for his stats to date. He’s a physical bottom 6 guy that skates well but doesn’t score much.
 

Fistfullofbeer

Moderator
May 9, 2011
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Even if they each get an extra $500k that’s still doable under the cap. Chiasson played some with McDavid this year which explains his super high goal total. Prior to this year he said broke the 30 point mark once and was making $600k. I think $2 mil for that is very fair. Tanev could get a little more, but don’t see more than $2.5 mil for his stats to date. He’s a physical bottom 6 guy that skates well but doesn’t score much.

All of the above could be true but they had their best seasons as pending UFA's. They are going to want a big payday. Its just how the UFA contracts seem to work nowadays.
 

Eklund72

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
4,044
175
That is what I was actually going to ask @STL Shark

Chiasson is 28 years old and had 38 points in 73 games.
Tanev is 27 and just had 29 points in 30 games.

Both are UFA's and looking for a payday. Those numbers are what even an RFA could take you to arbitration for. Don't think the UFA's will take that.

Only reason Jumbo accepts 1.5M is because he is 39 and does not want to move/play anywhere else.

I don't know about Kinkaid enough to evaluate how good he is as a backup. Also, i doubt any team gives us a 2nd for Ryan + 6/7th rounder. On the other hand, I don't think Melker is a cap dump. He could get us anywhere from 5 - 7th rounder. Dell is one though.

I havent checked but im guessing you meant tanev got 30 points in 80 games?
 

Eklund72

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
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Meier-Couture-Nyquist
Kane-Hertl-Labanc
Chehkovich-XXXXX-Chmelevski
Sorensen-Goodrow-Karlsson

Vlasic-Burns
Dillon-Karlsson
Simek-Braun

I havent calculated the salaries but if we could get Hayes he would be a perfect 3C
 

JoeThorntonsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
33,457
25,655
Fremont, CA
If Labanc gets it done by himself I’m definitely thinking that one over.

My personal opinion is that ghost is the 60pt Dman and not the 37 point one, plus he’s dynamite on the PP which we could use, and I think he played both sides this year so he could open up lots of potential pairings.

I doubt we really go for him, but I think he’s a great player, who’s young, and on a great contract so I’d be stoked if we got him for a reasonable price.

I would trade Labanc straight up for Gostisbehere regardless of what happens with Karlsson.

So with it sounding like EK65 is coming back, here is what I put together in terms of a projected lineup for next season.

Trades as follows:
Trade Braun + 2 of Radil/Perron/Suomela/Equivalent pick to Toronto for Kapanen and retain $800k on Braun to make his cap hit a cool $3 mil for whoever acquires him.
Trade Ryan + late pick to someone for a 2nd
Cap dump Melker and Dell to whoever takes them.

UFA Signings:
Brandon Tanev
Alex Chiasson
Keith Kinkaid
Joe Thornton

Projected lineup from CapFriendly:
View attachment 236357

Think this makes us at least as good as last year as a regular season team, but gives the team a bit more size and more skating ability throughout the lineup for the rigors of the playoffs. With the Ch twins in the AHL and another year for Gambrell (in addition to a few of the Euro signings) I don't think depth should be as much of an issue if there is an injury in the forward group. Desimone as a regular on the 3rd pair is a bit scary to me, but don't see many options out there from a RD perspective. Take a chance with Desimone and if you need to make a deal at the deadline to sure it up, so be it.

Alex Chiasson played with Connor McDavid and shot at 17.9% this year. Neither of those things are going to happen if he signs in San Jose. I'm not sure why you're fixated on him but he is not a good hockey player. Tanev would be a good acquisition, though.

Look back the previous season with Perry though and it's not as bad. He was fine before the knee injury and likely will be fine again now that he's had more time to recover. No different than how jumbo looked at the 6 month mark after the first knee injury. If he get's bought out I hope he signs crazy cheap for a shot at a cup with the Sharks. Especially if they're able to bring back EK65.


That forward group is getting worked and won't be able to sustain an injury to one of the big dogs. Are those salaries realistic for any of those UFA contracts?


Maybe if he gets to play with (playoff) Vlassic next season he can help mitigate that issue?

Vlasic doesn't always great in terms of expected goals vs actual goals against either but he's not as bad as Karlsson in that regard. However, it shouldn't really matter because Vlasic and Karlsson can suppress expected goals to a great degree. That pairing would be dominant.
 
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Groo

Registered User
May 11, 2013
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surfingarippleofevil
I would trade Labanc straight up for Gostisbehere regardless of what happens with Karlsson.



Alex Chiasson played with Connor McDavid and shot at 17.9% this year. Neither of those things are going to happen if he signs in San Jose. I'm not sure why you're fixated on him but he is not a good hockey player. Tanev would be a good acquisition, though.



Vlasic doesn't always great in terms of expected goals vs actual goals against either but he's not as bad as Karlsson in that regard. However, it shouldn't really matter because Vlasic and Karlsson can suppress expected goals to a great degree. That pairing would be dominant.
Actual goals. Is there any other kind?
 

JoeThorntonsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
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Actual goals. Is there any other kind?

Well, there’s expected goals. Which are basically just shots that are assigned a different value based on (mostly) location, as well as other factors like shot type and shooter location.

Actual goals are more prone to being influenced by random variance, goaltending, and shooting ability. Which leads some people to disregard them in favor of expected goals when using those stats to judge a defensive player. But certain players (like Karlsson) consistently allow more actual goals than expected goals.
 

Groo

Registered User
May 11, 2013
6,381
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surfingarippleofevil
Well, there’s expected goals. Which are basically just shots that are assigned a different value based on (mostly) location, as well as other factors like shot type and shooter location.

Actual goals are more prone to being influenced by random variance, goaltending, and shooting ability. Which leads some people to disregard them in favor of expected goals when using those stats to judge a defensive player. But certain players (like Karlsson) consistently allow more actual goals than expected goals.
Thanks for the explanation
You lose me at the more valuable then actual goals...The kind of goals that win actual games
 

JoeThorntonsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
33,457
25,655
Fremont, CA
Thanks for the explanation
You lose me at the more valuable then actual goals...The kind of goals that win actual games

Nobody thinks expected goals are more valuable than actual goals. Some people think that expected goals are more useful for judging the performance of a player or team and predicting the future performance of that player of team because they are less influenced by luck.
 
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