2019-2020 - Around the League (All non-Stars NHL Talk here)

[Kalamazoo Wings]

I don't think that's terrible for the Habs as LT has pointed out draft position. The 3rd and 9th trades effectively turning into Drouin and Domi is acceptable.

To take it a couple years further I'm not so sure Kotka is anything special, especially at #3. But they likely have a good one in Caufield though it remains to be seen. I forget who they took in 2017.

 

[serp]

I don't think that's terrible for the Habs as LT has pointed out draft position. The 3rd and 9th trades effectively turning into Drouin and Domi is acceptable.

To take it a couple years further I'm not so sure Kotka is anything special, especially at #3. But they likely have a good one in Caufield though it remains to be seen. I forget who they took in 2017.

Ryan Poehling who had a great first game at the end of last season and has struggled quite a bit this year

 

[Smelling Salt]

Juulsen will probably be alright too once he gets going.

 

[Henderson33]

Weird to see Nichushkin being trusted down a goal in the last minute, and he helps tie it.

 

[M88K]

Weird to see Nichushkin being trusted down a goal in the last minute, and he helps tie it.

Not really his potential was always there he just was never put in a situation to excel.


Edit: That's not to absolve him of his own issues (effort, etc) that contributed to being misused

 

[MrHeiskanen]

Getting paired with two perennial all-stars and 80 point players and he wasn't put in a situation to excel.

Good one.

 

[LT]

Not really his potential was always there he just was never put in a situation to excel.


Edit: That's not to absolve him of his own issues (effort, etc) that contributed to being misused

Getting paired with two perennial all-stars and 80 point players and he wasn't put in a situation to excel.

Good one.

And he produced... 34 points there. I see little to no reason he should've kept that spot.

Nichushkin was never going to work out here. He was given plenty of opportunity and never made enough of it to justify his draft position and to maintain receiving those opportunities. He had too many issues with the coach, too much of a risk of leaving for Russia (again and again...), and simply wasn't mature enough.

Getting bought out and having to sign a bargain of a deal seems to have slapped some sense of reality into him. Good for him. It wasn't going to work out here, though.

 

[BrettHullsToe]

And he produced... 34 points there. I see little to no reason he should've kept that spot.

Nichushkin was never going to work out here. He was given plenty of opportunity and never made enough of it to justify his draft position and to maintain receiving those opportunities. He had too many issues with the coach, too much of a risk of leaving for Russia (again and again...), and simply wasn't mature enough.

Getting bought out and having to sign a bargain of a deal seems to have slapped some sense of reality into him. Good for him. It wasn't going to work out here, though.

It's annoying that some players absolutely have to change teams before they reach their potential, but that's just the way it goes. The Stars have benefited from it in the past with Seguin, so it's only fair to be on the losing side as well.

 

[M88K]

Getting paired with two perennial all-stars and 80 point players and he wasn't put in a situation to excel.

Good one.

The first time around yes for his rookie season and he produced 34p which was good for being a rookie, He then missed almost the next entire season due to injury, then Ruff did Ruff things. Anyway the point was not about one season 6yrs ago but on the return trip last year.

It's annoying that some players absolutely have to change teams before they reach their potential, but that's just the way it goes. The Stars have benefited from it in the past with Seguin, so it's only fair to be on the losing side as well.

This is also incorrect.
he quite literally lead the bruins in 11-12 his last full season with them and in the lockout year he was 4 or 5p off of Marchand for the team lead in points.

They are on the losing side because they misused him.

 

[eartotheground]

The first time around yes for his rookie season and he produced 34p which was good for being a rookie, He then missed almost the next entire season due to injury, then Ruff did Ruff things. Anyway the point was not about one season 6yrs ago but on the return trip last year.

This is also incorrect.
he quite literally lead the bruins in 11-12 his last full season with them and in the lockout year he was 4 or 5p off of Marchand for the team lead in points.

They are on the losing side because they misused him.

this might be one of the worst takes i've seen on here in a decade.

nuke was bad here (but scored a handful of points), he was bad in the khl, was awful here again, and has been barely ok when the expectations are at zero in colorado, his likely last chance to stay in the nhl.
he played here with good players and bad, in good offensive systems and bad, on the power play and 5 on 5, on the top line and on the fourth line.
he was terrible on the boards, couldn't lift the puck off the ice on a shot, awful on defense, never thought the game particularly well, and clearly wasn't committed to high effort, particularly early on. there's not some brilliant usage going on in colorado that was never tried here. it's still hockey and now that he's desperate and giving his all he's barely acceptable as a dirt cheap bottom line player.

 

[MrHeiskanen]

He is on a 30 point pace in Colorado, he is still not a good hockey player. He is a serviceable NHLer.. dime a dozen we can sign anyone at $1.5-2 million to fill that role any off-season we want.

 

[M88K]

He is on a 30 point pace in Colorado, he is still not a good hockey player. He is a serviceable NHLer.. dime a dozen we can sign anyone at $1.5-2 million to fill that role any off-season we want.

That's a funny take considering most are super giddy about Gurianov being a "top 6" player who's only on 30 point pace.
He(Nichushkin) is a dime a dozen player, that can be signed for 1.5-2mil. But we don't sign them, instead we fill out the roster with 2.5+mil 30yr olds that produce at an 17p pace instead

 

[MrHeiskanen]

Keep in mind that a 30 point pace on Dallas is like 40 point pace on most teams.

30 point pace on the Avs is like 20 points in Dallas.

 

[M88K]

Keep in mind that a 30 point pace on Dallas is like 40 point pace on most teams.

30 point pace on the Avs is like 20 points in Dallas.

No it's not.
This is some horrible Razor type logic.
30 points is 30 points.
Dallas system, stifles offense, because it is a worse offensive version of Hitchcocks system but you don't get to artificially boost production of bad players here, to make yourself think that they're better than bad players who are producing the same or better elsewhere.
Especially when their usage is damn near the same, although one is sheltered with offensive zone starts a whole lot more
if that were the case maybe we should go and grab some Red Wings players. We look like an offensive Juggernaut compared to them. They have 5, 50+ point pace players(Compared to our 3), that has to be like what 60 points in Dallas based on your "make yourself feel better conversion chart for lousy production"?

 

[MrHeiskanen]

How is that horrible logic? You think Kassian is scoring 13 goals on every team in the NHL or he is gifted goals by playing with McDavid?

 

[eartotheground]

How is that horrible logic? You think Kassian is scoring 13 goals on every team in the NHL or he is gifted goals by playing with McDavid?

this. secondary points in particular are notorious for artificially inflating point totals of lesser players on good/high scoring teams. they often fail to repeat the same success elsewhere.

 

[M88K]

How is that horrible logic? You think Kassian is scoring 13 goals on every team in the NHL or he is gifted goals by playing with McDavid?

Yes getting to play with a player like McDavid would boost production artificially, when did he get traded to the avs 3rd line?
I mean playing with Pierre-Edouard Bellmare, Matt Neito, and Matt Calvert is definitely comparable to having production boosted next to McDavid right?
Or are you trying to say its the just slightly over 2% of the time(All situation) he's on the ice with Mack?

Valiant effort on the backpedal though

 

[eartotheground]

Yes getting to play with a player like McDavid would boost production artificially, when did he get traded to the avs 3rd line?
I mean playing with Pierre-Edouard Bellmare, Matt Neito, and Matt Calvert is definitely comparable to having production boosted next to McDavid right?
Or are you trying to say its the just slightly over 2% of the time(All situation) he's on the ice with Mack?

Valiant effort on the backpedal though

then we're back to, 'the stars didn't put him in a position to succeed.'
so if he's playing with the avs' worst and succeeding, what's the excuse for when he was playing with bad players here? did the staff tell him to make sure he didn't score?

 

[M88K]

then we're back to, 'the stars didn't put him in a position to succeed.'
so if he's playing with the avs' worst and succeeding, what's the excuse for when he was playing with bad players here? did the staff tell him to make sure he didn't score?

I didn't think i'd need to highlight this because i already said it.
but again, yes he was misused here by Monty

Not really his potential was always there he just was never put in a situation to excel.


Edit: That's not to absolve him of his own issues (effort, etc) that contributed to being misused

He was played as a 4th liner here, and got no power-play time. Pretty much from day 1. he would spend almost entire periods on the bench when he did play Now who's to say when he stopped putting in the effort, Maybe it was right away, maybe it was after a week, maybe a month we can only guess. But only Brett Ritchie played less than him per game(over 40 games played), and he (ritchie) even got more PP time.
You don't think a player who is being utilized wrong, and constantly benched. Sit 5-15 game stretches between playing, then gets benched for a half/whole period won't eventually give up? Or be negatively effected by it?

If he gave up right away, and maybe he did, then yeah it's 100% on him, but considering Monty was still doing stupid shit with player usage early this season, I sincerely doubt that. But that's just me.

All of this is ultimately pointless, he's a 3rd line player, who has shown just about every year, that he's capable of being an NHL player, if only in flashes here and there.
It's just annoying and stupid to see.
Player a.. 30 point pace. "Top 6, great, blah blah blah"
Player b, also 30 point pace "Lousy, Garbage"
or
"well yeah, it's 30points in Colorado, so it's like 40 points here", because he gets to play with McDavid (I guess )

 

[eartotheground]

I didn't think i'd need to highlight this because i already said it.
but again, yes he was misused here by Monty


He was played as a 4th liner here, and got no power-play time. Pretty much from day 1. he would spend almost entire periods on the bench when he did play Now who's to say when he stopped putting in the effort, Maybe it was right away, maybe it was after a week, maybe a month we can only guess. But only Brett Ritchie played less than him per game(over 40 games played), and he (ritchie) even got more PP time.
You don't think a player who is being utilized wrong, and constantly benched. Sit 5-15 game stretches between playing, then gets benched for a half/whole period won't eventually give up? Or be negatively effected by it?

If he gave up right away, and maybe he did, then yeah it's 100% on him, but considering Monty was still doing stupid **** with player usage early this season, I sincerely doubt that. But that's just me.

All of this is ultimately pointless, he's a 3rd line player, who has shown just about every year, that he's capable of being an NHL player, if only in flashes here and there.
It's just annoying and stupid to see.
Player a.. 30 point pace. "Top 6, great, blah blah blah"
Player b, also 30 point pace "Lousy, Garbage"
or
"well yeah, it's 30points in Colorado, so it's like 40 points here", because he gets to play with McDavid (I guess )

on the getting sat portion... if you aren't executing in practice or in games, if there isn't excessive effort.. how can a coach justify just passing out ice time to a player? when asked about ice time, you can't tell the rest of your team that if they work hard and produce you'll give them time, only to reward nuke with time that he hasn't earned. that's how you destroy good culture in any organization.
i agree that if he's not getting the time it's easy for someone to get negatively affected. but by the same token, the organization showed belief in him with a high draft status- if you don't think they gave him every chance to prove them right then i guess we'll have to disagree there. there's so much that goes on behind the scenes that we aren't aware of, but those in charge have a vested interest in winning.
while sometimes a person will put their own ego ahead of winning, i don't think that's the predominant behavior, especially when there are assistant coaches and front office staff there to check/balance that power.
does that mean monty's usage was perfect? of course not. (who knows, maybe he filled out the starting lineups while knocking back a few) but i'd put 99% of this on the player.

 

[Smelling Salt]

Gallant available again...

 

[Kcb12345]

Gallant available again...

Interesting that Shapiro threw this out there


With that being said though, there's a good chance Jon Cooper becomes available after his season too.

Not sure how I feel about hiring a guy like Gallant midseason though. Don't think changing the system right now is the best idea although he could probably get more offense out of some guys

 

[Satan]

Gallant would be sick

 

[ElGuapo]

It would be insane to change anything right now.

 

[Kipper 17]

Vegas is struggling enough to fire their coach? I feel out of touch.