2019/20 Roster Thread XXX - AKA the Ghost Thread

[prototypical4thliner]

I'd think any Ghost move is held til this offseason, where it's still a large mistake. My hope is they are smart and move him formed exempt help, and not some aging vet, but I have little faith in Fletcher to actually make that happen, so I'm fully expecting Ghost for David Backes because "be a ****ing flyer" and "vet 3c help".

 

[TheKingPin]

Shayne Gostisbehere on verge of returning for Flyers; says he will come back 'hungry’

Confirms what we thought that ghost was playing through his injury and got surgery for it. I think he might be full speed now. That would be pretty awesome. If he could be good enough to go top pair and thrive and you move Niskanen down you get a lot of depth.

Hart could play Thursday. I doubt it though.

 

[Striiker]

There is a difference between dumb decisions and actually being dumb. AV like coach Q, Lavy, and others do things that make no sense. Does not make them incompetent

Doing one dumb thing means you made a mistake.

Doing dumb things over and over and over and not learning from it makes you dumb.

Our coaches are dumb.

 

[Striiker]

Shayne Gostisbehere on verge of returning for Flyers; says he will come back 'hungry’

Confirms what we thought that ghost was playing through his injury and got surgery for it. I think he might be full speed now. That would be pretty awesome. If he could be good enough to go top pair and thrive and you move Niskanen down you get a lot of depth.

Hart could play Thursday. I doubt it though.

No matter how he plays they won’t change his usage. They already proved that. He’s been playing well for months and he was our best D for a while there in December and he continued to get screwed over the whole time.

 

[TheKingPin]

No matter how he plays they won’t change his usage. They already proved that. He’s been played well for months and he was our best D for a while there in December and he continued to get screwed over the whole time.

I think if he shows the same flash he had they could move him up. But I agree. I think AV looks at him as a specialist.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

1. You used CF% as a definitive player rating system, which it is absolutely not. Higher CF% =/= better performance. Do you think Jordan Weal was the Flyers’ best player last season?

Imagine actually thinking and the writing this

2. I made no comparisons of Hagg vs. Myers or Hagg vs. Ghost. That’s you & others pretending I did.

And then following that statement and its implication up with this one.

3. Why do I need to repeat my words? You can’t go back a couple posts & re-read them?

"How come nobody likes me at this party. What is wrong with everybody else that they dont like me."

The problem is that you & others *desperately* want to read things into my words that aren’t there.

Again typed this statement after telling Tripod that Tripod used CF% as a complete player ranking system.

@Tripod isn't this guy the best?

 

[bobbythebrain]

So he admits playing hurt but some maintained he looked 100% and it was merely coaches.

I believe the terms hate, bias and lying were thrown around quit often

Hmmm

 

[Striiker]

I think if he shows the same flash he had they could move him up. But I agree. I think AV looks at him as a specialist.

I wish.

He’s already showed high end skill but thanks to all that time with Hagg and the bottom six it rarely ended with a goal. They use the lack of scoring as an excuse, while ignoring that its their fault that that he’s with guys who can’t take advantage of his skill.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I also find it unlikely Minnesota would move Brodin.

But if they think they’re going to have trouble signing him that may change things.

Even if he’s available, I’m not sure Ghost would be what they’re looking for, so it might take a 3-way trade.

 

[Beef Invictus]

So he admits playing hurt but some maintained he looked 100% and it was merely coaches.

I believe the terms hate, bias and lying were thrown around quit often

Hmmm

Fun fact: he can be hindered by injury and still play well enough to score if put in position to do so.

Him being hurt would do much to explain why he couldn't do better in a worse situation as well.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Shayne Gostisbehere on verge of returning for Flyers; says he will come back 'hungry’

Confirms what we thought that ghost was playing through his injury and got surgery for it. I think he might be full speed now. That would be pretty awesome. If he could be good enough to go top pair and thrive and you move Niskanen down you get a lot of depth.

Hart could play Thursday. I doubt it though.

Between Nisk, Braun and Myers, I doubt they put Ghost on the right side of a pairing.

I do hope they try to even out the minutes a little more though. Playing 27+ minutes a night on a fairly consistent basis can't bode well for Ivan in the playoffs.

 

[Striiker]

Fun fact: he can be hindered by injury and still play well enough to score if put in position to do so.

Him being hurt would do much to explain why he couldn't do better in a worse situation as well.

Bingo. You can feel pain/discomfort and not have it make you a worse player.

Fact is, he looked just the same as the previous years, apart from the sabotaged usage, so there’s no reason to believe it was effecting his play. Sounds like he got the surgery because he aggravated it in his most recent game and he wanted to get rid of the problem instead of risking it becoming worse.

This is all very obvious, but of course bias and narratives persist.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Fun fact: he can be hindered by injury and still play well enough to score if put in position to do so.

Him being hurt would do much to explain why he couldn't do better in a worse situation as well.

Fun fact: He can be hurt and it could've been noticeable, and the fans who claimed he seemed off were also likely right

 

[Striiker]

Between Nisk, Braun and Myers, I doubt they put Ghost on the right side of a pairing.

I do hope they try to even out the minutes a little more though. Playing 27+ minutes a night on a fairly consistent basis can't bode well for Ivan in the playoffs.

Step 1 would be getting Provorov FAAAAAAR away from the PP.

 

[Flyers Time]

save my captain from the black hole that is JVR

 

[freakydallas13]

Fun fact: he can be hindered by injury and still play well enough to score if put in position to do so.

Him being hurt would do much to explain why he couldn't do better in a worse situation as well.

You're not wrong, but at least once this season I pointed out that ghost looked noticeably slower on a particular play, only to be told he is still the exact same player he was 2 years ago, implying that I was wrong or biased (or both). Of course I didn't speculate that it was because of a lingering injury, but still.

There was a lot of back and forth about how people who said ghost looked off were wrong, so him admitting he was injured kind of confirms that. Not to say that ghost looked bad (he didn't, and even if he was by his standards he was still miles better than Hagg), I just remember saying he didn't quite look like himself.

The injury explains a lot tbh.

 

[Striiker]

Ghost “being slower” was always just an imaginary flaw.

Same as when people have said it about Giroux, JVR, and Voracek this year. Previous years to.

Fans tend to do this. Whenever a player isn’t scoring people take a guess and then confirmation bias it into reality. They hyper focus on the players skating and any time they’re not at full speed or they’re tired they think that validates their guess. I guess all the times he did show his normal speed get forgotten.

Edit: misspoke, changed a word. Meant “being” instead of “looking”

 

[GapToothedWonder]

He looks slow is such a fallback statement for all players.

By what percentage would a player actually have to slow down before a person could actually positively identify it. Even if this injury slowed down Ghost. If we randomly selected a couple games from this season and a season where he hadn't "slowed" would people be able to actually perceive the difference in his skating?

I doubt it. I highly doubt I could.

 

[Rebels57]

 

[freakydallas13]

Ghost “looking slower” was always just an imaginary flaw.

Same as when people have said it about Giroux, JVR, and Voracek this year. Previous years to.

Fans tend to do this. Whenever a player isn’t scoring people take a guess and then confirmation bias it into reality. They hyper focus on the players skating and any time they’re not at full speed or they’re tired they think that validates their guess. I guess all the times he did show his normal speed get forgotten.

If I had access to game footage I'd show you the play I'm talking about. I want to say it was in the first game against Carolina? Ghost was skating full stride out of the d-zone with a few steps on the pursing forechecker, and one of the opposing forwards closed and (possibly?) stripped him of the puck with seemingly ease.

"Looked slow on that play" and "are slow" aren't the same thing, maybe ghost was gassed, I don't know. But to come in here and accuse me of "comfirmation bias" just because I pointed out he looked slow on one play reeks of rabid white-knighting, especially since I'm going to guess you don't vividly recall the play I'm thinking of either.

 

[Rebels57]

It makes so much sense to do the following:

-Ghost - Braun as 3rd pair
-Ghost back on PP1
-Provy back on PP2
-Niskanen off PP altogether

Makes the team better by using the right players in the right roles, increases Ghosts minutes, reduces Provy and Niskanen minutes.

Makes too much sense though.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Fun fact: He can be hurt and it could've been noticeable, and the fans who claimed he seemed off were also likely right

It seemed like you were trying to debunk the fact that his usage has negatively impacted him by blaming it all on the injury.

That's questionable thinking.

 

[bobbythebrain]

It seemed like you were trying to debunk the fact that his usage has negatively impacted him by blaming it all on the injury.

That's questionable thinking.

It was a pretty straight forward post as to the bashing some get for opinions.

That's questionable comprehension

 

[Striiker]

If I had access to game footage I'd show you the play I'm talking about. I want to say it was in the first game against Carolina? Ghost was skating full stride out of the d-zone with a few steps on the pursing forechecker, and one of the opposing forwards closed and (possibly?) stripped him of the puck with seemingly ease.

Doesn't mean his is actually slower, but man did he look it on that play.

And that’s fine, any player can look/be slow in an individual example. There’s lots of reasons that can happen and I don’t doubt you’re right, even though I don’t know the exact instance you’re referring to.

But when people say a player has “slowed down” that’s different. That’s saying his top speed is different and the player is unable to skate like they used to. That’s what I’m saying isn’t true. Ghost still is capable of the same speed as the previous two years and has shown that many times this year.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It was a pretty straight forward post as to the bashing some get for opinions.

That's questionable comprehension

Oh so you were mocking people who claimed that his usage hasn't been conducive at all to production. Thanks for admitting I was right I guess.


You know, if he's been injured, his quite unfriendly usage is actually worse. It isn't easier for him to play with bottom sixers while having to carry Hagg to something resembling a hockey player. It's actually quite a bit to ask of a player who is hurt.

Usage is very important you know. As I said, questioning that is questionable in itself.