Speculation: 2019-20 News/Rumors,Roster thread Post Deadline

[HeadInjury]

He claims the kings made inquiries into Eichel. Do we have a source for that report?

It's click bait.

 

[bouncesonly]

Is Ottowa's 3rd and 5th rounder for the 1OA an underpayment/overpayment/fair deal?

What would LA trade for the 1OA? 2OA, 2 of second rounders, plus take on cap dump?

Is picking 1OA in a "deep" draft when you're a bubble team a good proposition?

 

[Statto]

Is Ottowa's 3rd and 5th rounder for the 1OA an underpayment/overpayment/fair deal?

What would LA trade for the 1OA? 2OA, 2 of second rounders, plus take on cap dump?

Is picking 1OA in a "deep" draft when you're a bubble team a good proposition?

I know there is debate about Byfield vs Stützle for 2OA but in all honesty I’d still want Byfield at 1OA. I genuinely think that Byfield has the highest ceiling in this draft and in 10 years time will be considered 1OA when we start doing redrafts... So in short I wouldn’t trade up and I fully accept I’m in a minority on this.

 

[johnjm22]

I wonder if the Kings will pursue Pius Suter. Would be a nice way to make up for losing Kubalik.

 

[The Tikkanen]

Drew seems like a freak of nature but imagine how good he could be with a serious commitment to fitness ala Dustin Brown. Only gets harder as you get older. Unless you are Chelios.

The Kings should be the best conditioned team in the league. Gone are the "we've played a bunch of games the last couple years" complaint. There is no reason why any body on this team should look like they sit in the 300 section.

 

[BigKing]

The Kings should be the best conditioned team in the league. Gone are the "we've played a bunch of games the last couple years" complaint. There is no reason why any body on this team should look like they sit in the 300 section.

C'mon now

 

[bland]

Sorry, but Kopitar and Doughty are not in their prime, or their peak years. Having highest rated prospect pool is great, but they still have to develop these guys. Half the players I keep seeing people pencil the Kings lineup won't even make it to the NHL.

If Blake said he gave them "one" last run he is being disingenuous. He had a team that had missed the playoffs for a couple of years, gave them a bounce back year, THEN tried to augment the core that got swept by Vegas with Kovalchuk and Pacioretty, after adding Phaneuf.

Emerson is always bumping around the concourse in Ontario, ask him, and he will tell you how they "dodged a bullet" with Pacioretty and joke about how they would have needed to sign every college free agent possible just to have a reason for a developmental team to show up in Ontario.

Point is, Blake had no choice but to rebuild after wasting millions of dollars on non-factor oldies. It was no master plan. His squad hadn't won a single playoff game in 4 years, had no space and a barren cupboard.

Its been my opinion - yours too - that Blake wasted two years of rebuilding by taking a fools errand.

They had what looks to be a spectacular draft in 19, a so-so draft in 18 (much better from the 2nd round on) and are primed to make a franchise changing selection in 20. But collecting and retaining picks doesn't require much panache, the proof of this organizations skill at drafting and developing is still a few years down the road.

 

[KINGS17]

If Blake said he gave them "one" last run he is being disingenuous. He had a team that had missed the playoffs for a couple of years, gave them a bounce back year, THEN tried to augment the core that got swept by Vegas with Kovalchuk and Pacioretty, after adding Phaneuf.

Emerson is always bumping around the concourse in Ontario, ask him, and he will tell you how they "dodged a bullet" with Pacioretty and joke about how they would have needed to sign every college free agent possible just to have a reason for a developmental team to show up in Ontario.

Point is, Blake had no choice but to rebuild after wasting millions of dollars on non-factor oldies. It was no master plan. His squad hadn't won a single playoff game in 4 years, had no space and a barren cupboard.

Its been my opinion - yours too - that Blake wasted two years of rebuilding by taking a fools errand.

They had what looks to be a spectacular draft in 19, a so-so draft in 18 (much better from the 2nd round on) and are primed to make a franchise changing selection in 20. But collecting and retaining picks doesn't require much panache, the proof of this organizations skill at drafting and developing is still a few years down the road.

Yes, it is unfortunate the handwriting on the wall was apparently some type of invisible ink which could not be seen by some.

 

[Sparky206]

Point is, Blake had no choice but to rebuild after wasting millions of dollars on non-factor oldies. It was no master plan. His squad hadn't won a single playoff game in 4 years, had no space and a barren cupboard.

But he had a core that had won two cups for the franchise. Thats a once in probably 100 year event for your average franchise and a core that had been built for the last 15 years. You dont just tear that down lightly, you give it every opportunity possible to succeed. Eventually the writing is on the wall as it was in 2018 and you get value for their past achievements just like Blake has.

Its not a team of good players that haven't achieved that you can just pull the plug on and rebuild, its the greatest team in the history of the franchise, while they still show signs of life and compete you try to give them the tools that you can.

I dont know why anyone complains about Blake, hes pulled off the near perfect rebuild. Playoffs one year followed by two years of top 5 draft picks, if you could plan a rebuild that is a textbook result. Hes kept the right players around to mentor the next generation, if you sell off Doughty or Kopitar then you end up like Detroit or Ottawa in an endless rebuild where kids are put into the NHL and expected to be a primary point producer in their first year. Maybe you could have got more for Carter trading him 2 years ago, but he still has value guiding the next generation as one of the best from his generation and that could be worth more than an extra 1st rounder.

 

[bland]

But he had a core that had won two cups for the franchise. Thats a once in probably 100 year event for your average franchise and a core that had been built for the last 15 years. You dont just tear that down lightly, you give it every opportunity possible to succeed. Eventually the writing is on the wall as it was in 2018 and you get value for their past achievements just like Blake has.

Its not a team of good players that haven't achieved that you can just pull the plug on and rebuild, its the greatest team in the history of the franchise, while they still show signs of life and compete you try to give them the tools that you can.

I dont know why anyone complains about Blake, hes pulled off the near perfect rebuild. Playoffs one year followed by two years of top 5 draft picks, if you could plan a rebuild that is a textbook result. Hes kept the right players around to mentor the next generation, if you sell off Doughty or Kopitar then you end up like Detroit or Ottawa in an endless rebuild where kids are put into the NHL and expected to be a primary point producer in their first year. Maybe you could have got more for Carter trading him 2 years ago, but he still has value guiding the next generation as one of the best from his generation and that could be worth more than an extra 1st rounder.

It was blatantly obvious that the team was no longer a contender. It was done and over. You are not a contender when you miss the playoffs two years in a row, have no cap space to spend on free agents, no prospects or picks to trade and no cost controlled assets available to supplement the core.

Its not about sentimentality, its about logic and common sense. You cannot have "hope" as the sole business model if you want to succeed. Blake wasted two years treading water while hoping his core still had it in them when they had proven they didn't.

And now some folks think they will be contending again in 2 years? That is preposterous. Most of the reasons we have for our well-earned giddy optomism will be either rookies or AHL players at that point.

This has to be a slow boil with nothing rushed for the sake of a playoff run. Hell, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to add any outside players for the next season when you risk losing a good, developing player to Seattle if you bring in a quality free agent.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Hanging onto picks is easy, yet the Kings failed to do that for a number of years. How many rentals have the Kings acquired since new management took over? Anyone miss those spectacular moves to acquire the likes of Milan Lucic or Ben Bishop or Kris Versteeg?

So the Kings should’ve rebuilt after career years from Kopitar, Brown and Doughty and Quick’s spectacular playoff performance. Point me to a team that’s done that. At least he recognized the deep rooted issues and started restocking quickly rather than dealing away picks and prospects for more quick fixes and rentals.

What should have Blake done after Kopitar was nominated for a Hart Trophy and Selke Trophy and Doughty was nominated for a Norris Trophy, and Quick won a Jennings Trophy?

 

[BigKing]

I've missed arguing about this!!!

I said it in a thread yesterday or this morning: Blake is full of shit when he says he gave these guys "one more shot". He gave them two and, luckily, they failed so hard at the 2nd shot that he stumbled in to a tank season that wasn't supposed to be one.

Because of this, he didn't waste two years but rather one although Carter had value prior to bombing in 2019. That being said, I'm in on his moves since the Muzzin trade but, again, trying not to win is easy. If they don't make the playoffs in 2022, he's completely failed.

 

[Sparky206]

It was blatantly obvious that the team was no longer a contender. It was done and over. You are not a contender when you miss the playoffs two years in a row, have no cap space to spend on free agents, no prospects or picks to trade and no cost controlled assets available to supplement the core.

The kings never missed the playoffs two years in a row, they put up 98 points in 17-18 while scoring the most goals since 2010. Quick won a Jennings and in hindsight Kopitar was MVP of the league. Your not tearing down that team at that point, how would you call Kopitar and Quick and say hey we know youve just put up stellar seasons but were tearing the team down. They were running out of assets so Blake got them the best free asset he could find which in the end cost him nothing but unused cap space.

Turns out they mail it in early next season, Blake starts the rebuild and less than 2 seasons later we have the best prospect pool in the league(with a 2OA and 20 picks still to come), two future HOFers still at 1C and 1D and a team that looked to have turned the corner.

If at the time Stevens was fired someone could have offered you a rebuild scenario where you get the best prospect pool in the league, you get to keep Quick, Carter, Brown, Kopitar & Doughty and it it all happens within 2 seasons every single kings fan would have taken it in a heartbeat. Blake has done an excellent job, you can nitpick signings like Kovalchuk that didnt work out, but go ask Detroit, Ottawa, Buffalo ect fans whos rebuild they take and theyre taking Blake's over their own every time.

 

[crassbonanza]

I've missed arguing about this!!!

I honestly do too, those were simpler times, haha

 

[KingLB]

"One more shot" is revisionist history you tell people when you are trying to sell BS. It makes it seem like there was a plan going in, and the rebuild was always on the back of their mind, if they needed to pull the rip cord. If he truly was going to go for it again, he woulda done more than just sign an aging winger out of the KHL. He also would have moved some pieces sooner and possibly re-evaluated some buyouts. But we really don't need to go over this for the 2035702750275307th time.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I've missed arguing about this!!!

I said it in a thread yesterday or this morning: Blake is full of shit when he says he gave these guys "one more shot". He gave them two and, luckily, they failed so hard at the 2nd shot that he stumbled in to a tank season that wasn't supposed to be one.

Because of this, he didn't waste two years but rather one although Carter had value prior to bombing in 2019. That being said, I'm in on his moves since the Muzzin trade but, again, trying not to win is easy. If they don't make the playoffs in 2022, he's completely failed.

This is what this long standing debate hinges on for both sides. Not necessarily Carter specifically, but he is a good example for the debate.

Did he have any real value after 15-16(because DL was still thinking about winning until the end of that season, so there's no point in discussing anything before that), when he was already over 30, with more than half a decade remaining on the contract. Since we don't know, we end up having this endless conversation. Even if he should've been dealt in 16-17, since the team stunk, he was still 31 going on 32, with 5 additional seasons on the contract. When talking about others, we don't tend to say a guy like that has a lot of value. One of the reasons being exactly what happened the following season. Not that a skate to the leg isn't a freak injury, but since Carter was already older, he not only would have a more difficult time recovering from any injury, but he also has less time to be effective even if he does recover.

The biggest problem year was 17-18. Had Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick not shown up that year, nothing that happens after that year probably happens. Other than the forced rebuilding that would start a few months later anyway. I highly doubt Kovalchuk is even talked to. Doughty might've wanted to leave. Stevens is gone. WD is never here on short notice.

Had they just played the way they did that got DL fired, which made all the players cry at his house, then Blake wouldn't have had to deal with the prospect of competing. That's what the golden age Kings were though. Never knew what to expect. You think they're this, but they end up that. It's either go up 3-0 in every series, without home ice in any of them, or have to win three Game 7's on the road, while also having to win 3 OT games on home ice in the Final.

 

[MxH0CKEY]

"One more shot" is revisionist history you tell people when you are trying to sell BS. It makes it seem like there was a plan going in, and the rebuild was always on the back of their mind, if they needed to pull the rip cord. If he truly was going to go for it again, he woulda done more than just sign an aging winger out of the KHL. He also would have moved some pieces sooner and possibly re-evaluated some buyouts. But we really don't need to go over this for the 2035702750275307th time.

How much influence do we think Luc Robitaille has on decision making? I remember hearing a while back around here how Luc has a lot more leverage in those regards than in the past and I re-call him being the guy who was in Win-Now mode. At what point does Blake sign Kovy and then deliberately misuses him for the sake of pushing toward a rebuild and to where we are now? Do we really think Kovy was given the proper chance around here? He hardly every played with Kopi to build any chemistry and was rarely used on the point in the PP.

Needless to say, if Kovy did work out here along with some other good luck we could be in a situation like Minny where they aren't ever gaining high end picks because they are always finishing around 10th. Point in case, Blake may have still known the Kings needed a rebuild but everyone around him wanted to win. I guess this doesn't explain going after Pacioretty but..

 

[HeadInjury]

"One more shot" is revisionist history you tell people when you are trying to sell BS. It makes it seem like there was a plan going in, and the rebuild was always on the back of their mind, if they needed to pull the rip cord. If he truly was going to go for it again, he woulda done more than just sign an aging winger out of the KHL. He also would have moved some pieces sooner and possibly re-evaluated some buyouts. But we really don't need to go over this for the 2035702750275307th time.

Why not go over it again? We've got nothing else to talk about.

The total lack of acquiring players for picks and prospects since his hire to me shows Blake decided it wasn't worth further mortgaging the future in an attempt to remain relevant. He had a little bit of cap room to use and he used it, unsuccessfully of course, but that was the extent of him trying to improve the team.

We have no cap issues and really haven't had any in the Blake era. I really don't see what he could have done better than, with the benefit of hindsight, trading Carter before the skate injury and not signing Kovy. But so what? Would having another second rounder for Carter really make a difference? We have no shortage of prospects or picks. I'm fine still having Carter. And Kovy didn't get us any extra points in the standings that screwed us in terms of draft pick order. When a player is paid that much and adds so little, it's a reflection on Blake's judgment. So completely fair to criticize. But no GM makes only the right moves. DL had a long list of bona fide f-ups and still built a cup contender eventually.

Blake traded Muzzin at his top value. He traded Kuemper and Campbell when he had to. Pretty much all his trades have been for fair or better value. In the Phanuef trade, he traded one washed up player for another. Sure, we may have been in position to use LTIR on Gaborik, but with all this cap space, that's meaningless.

I was firmly in the Boo Blake corner and wasn't thrilled with the hire, but he's been good so far. Worst thing that can be said is he's wasted some of Uncle Phil's money.

So far, Blake's done the easy part and Yanetti I'm sure deserves the lion's share credit for the strong drafting. Why DL was successful was the decisions he made to acquire Williams, Richards, Carter and Gaborik. That's the hard part and something Blake hasn't been in the position yet to tackle.

 

[Telos]

Agreed, my first instinct when I see Rob Blake is not positive, but I have been cautiously optimistic about this rebuild and the way he's handled the team, especially when they committed to a rebuild. The only real mistake he made was waste Uncle Phil's money as Headinjury keenly puts it. It's hard to argue with the recent trades he's made, the current cap management, and our prospect pool.

Things have been operating smoothly and I think he is able to relate to the players a little bit better being a former player, I just worry about the old boy's club forming and having complete control in the hands of former players and their buddies. However, while every decision has not been perfect, I see no egregious errors or mistakes and things seem to be operating as expected.

Blake has time and leniency as far as I'm concerned. I don't see anything worthy of arguing or criticizing about at the moment.

 

[BigKing]

C'mon guys. Blake's record pre-Muzzin trade is poor. Nothing wrong with saying you like what he's done since they are now sitting on a top-notch pipeline but you shouldn't ignore the mistakes like all that happened was he used AEG's money.

 

[MxH0CKEY]

Hanging onto picks is easy, yet the Kings failed to do that for a number of years. How many rentals have the Kings acquired since new management took over? Anyone miss those spectacular moves to acquire the likes of Milan Lucic or Ben Bishop or Kris Versteeg?

So the Kings should’ve rebuilt after career years from Kopitar, Brown and Doughty and Quick’s spectacular playoff performance. Point me to a team that’s done that. At least he recognized the deep rooted issues and started restocking quickly rather than dealing away picks and prospects for more quick fixes and rentals.

What should have Blake done after Kopitar was nominated for a Hart Trophy and Selke Trophy and Doughty was nominated for a Norris Trophy, and Quick won a Jennings Trophy?

FWIW, in the Bishop and Versteeg deals we gave up very low draft picks. A part of me at the time wanted us to keep Bishop instead of Quick due to their playing styles(Quick's style has more wear and Quick had more miles as it is). Given the market at the time, if we were to have traded Quick how much could we have gotten back considering Bishop was moved to us for a 5th and Budaj?

I think the Sekera deal on the other hand deserves to be in the same group with Lucic as bad deals that severely set us back since we gave up 1st rounders and one of them could've been either Barzal or Connor which could've changed the scope of our team now by a mile. Sekera was a good player for us but the injury IMO was a major reason for missing the playoffs that year as our D Core lacked depth and couldn't break the puck out as efficiently. There was also no chance we would've re-signed Sek after that season with his demand price of 5.5M topped by EDM.

Blake has done a great job of cleaning up Deano's mess though, no denying that.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

FWIW, in the Bishop and Versteeg deals we gave up very low draft picks. A part of me at the time wanted us to keep Bishop instead of Quick due to their playing styles(Quick's style has more wear and Quick had more miles as it is). Given the market at the time, if we were to have traded Quick how much could we have gotten back considering Bishop was moved to us for a 5th and Budaj?

I think the Sekera deal on the other hand deserves to be in the same group with Lucic as bad deals that severely set us back since we gave up 1st rounders and one of them could've been either Barzal or Connor which could've changed the scope of our team now by a mile. Sekera was a good player for us but the injury IMO was a major reason for missing the playoffs that year as our D Core lacked depth and couldn't break the puck out as efficiently. There was also no chance we would've re-signed Sek after that season with his demand price of 5.5M topped by EDM.

Blake has done a great job of cleaning up Deano's mess though, no denying that.

Don’t forget Erik Cernak. He was a key piece that was lost for a rental, a former 2nd rounder who is now a top 4 dman.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

C'mon guys. Blake's record pre-Muzzin trade is poor. Nothing wrong with saying you like what he's done since they are now sitting on a top-notch pipeline but you shouldn't ignore the mistakes like all that happened was he used AEG's money.

What did he do that was so bad? Did he make any costly and regrettable moves that set the team back for many years and give up future assets for quick fixes? If the worst he did is the Phaneuf trade and Kovalchuk signing, then I’ll take that over the other mistakes the team was making from 2015 and on.

 

[Lt Dan]

What did he do that was so bad? Did he make any costly and regrettable moves that set the team back for many years and give up future assets for quick fixes? If the worst he did is the Phaneuf trade and Kovalchuk signing, then I’ll take that over the other mistakes the team was making from 2015 and on.

Reason 84 why you are the Master Debater

 

[HeadInjury]

Reason 84 why you are the Master Debater