Speculation: 2019-20 News/Rumors,Roster thread Post Deadline

[BigKing]

What did he do that was so bad? Did he make any costly and regrettable moves that set the team back for many years and give up future assets for quick fixes? If the worst he did is the Phaneuf trade and Kovalchuk signing, then I’ll take that over the other mistakes the team was making from 2015 and on.

How about this: What did he do that was so good?

This isn't about 2015-2017 but rather Rob Blake from Summer of '17 up to the Muzzin trade. It isn't a "I wish Dean was still the guy" but just plain facts that Blake was directionless until the Muzzin trade. If he wasn't directionless, then his belief was to just keep running this thing into the ground and try to win with the same core.

- Wrong coach
- Ran back Lombardi's team 2x while adding Kovalchuk because he though he had a contender on his hands. Gross miscalculation of the team and the player being signed.
- Gave Pearson away because he was still trying to salvage the 2019 season by "shaking things up"

Everyone is happy with the prospects and the #2OA on tap so it's like, "who cares that his decisions at the NHL level have been poor?" I say this as someone that is pleased with how the rebuild is being handled. I've also mentioned that Lombardi made mistakes at the beginning as well, i.e. Marc Crawford. That being said, I'm not going to pretend like he wasted a year that could have been used for rebuilding and was prepared to do so again--to the tune of a Pacioretty trade--but was fortunately bailed out. He stumbled in to this and we are fortunate that they played so poorly that it made him realize that the ride was over.

He's a first time NHL GM and he acted like one by basically just sitting on his hands and running the same team out while promoting the assistant coach. He's learning on the job just like Lombardi learned on the job about how difficult it is to stay on top of the mountain and what happens when you lose sight of long term planning. Fortunately, he has people around him that have been here for the Lombardi rebuild and Blake is pretty much following that blueprint. Now they need to have a decent amount of these prospects pan out with a couple of them being top-flight talents. Blake will then have to prove his worth by making the additions via FA and trade that make this team a real contender.

Can he do it? We're going to find out but his track record so far isn't great and he doesn't have prior GM history for us to analyze. I sure hope he can do it and, as I've said before, I hope I get to say that Blake is the best GM this team has ever had. I just don't know why it isn't okay to say he sucked prior to the Muzzin deal but has been handling the rebuild properly: it doesn't have to be a case of saying he's been good for the most part but Lombardi's mistakes were way bigger so who cares about Blake's errors.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Blake went with the assistant coach because he stayed loyal with a coach who had other opportunities to leave and stuck with a coach who the players liked. Would it have been better to go with another coach? In hindsight perhaps, but look at the results from his one season behind the bench and the career years many players had.

You still have yet to answer what Blake should’ve done after all those veteran players enjoyed their most successful seasons in their careers. He should’ve fired Stevens immediately afterwards and traded everyone?

Another team also gave up on Pearson that same season. He was unwanted because of his play, even Pearson admitted that he was struggling and people wanted him out. Now it’s a mistake to get rid of a player who had one assist in a quarter of the season?

Those of you nitpicking these moves are finding reasons to get bent out of shape over nothing. I ask again, has the future of the team been compromised as a result of these supposed poor mistakes?

 

[Sol]

You make good points but letting go of Pearson wasn't a mistake.

The biggest mistakes were hiring Willie D. That might have set the team back.

But in regards to trades Blake didn't make big gaffes like Dean was doing.

I agree, the team was directionless for a while even though it was obvious that the team needed the rebuild, however many nhl teams hate accepting that position because it's a hard sell to the fans. Luckily the Kings haven't sucked too long for me to be upset about the rebuild. Kings were awful for an OK amount of time, but considering where to prospect pool lies aka Number 1 in the NHL, seems like a good deal.

I'm mad about Willie D for sure. That was beyond stupid. Imo DL did much worse before he was shot into the sun. So this is a nice change of pace.

 

[BigKing]

Blake went with the assistant coach because he stayed loyal with a coach who had other opportunities to leave and stuck with a coach who the players liked. Would it have been better to go with another coach? In hindsight perhaps, but look at the results from his one season behind the bench and the career years many players had.

You still have yet to answer what Blake should’ve done after all those veteran players enjoyed their most successful seasons in their careers. He should’ve fired Stevens immediately afterwards and traded everyone?

Another team also gave up on Pearson that same season. He was unwanted because of his play, even Pearson admitted that he was struggling and people wanted him out. Now it’s a mistake to get rid of a player who had one assist in a quarter of the season?

Those of you nitpicking these moves are finding reasons to get bent out of shape over nothing. I ask again, has the future of the team been compromised as a result of these supposed poor mistakes?

Quite possibly, yes. One less year for 11 and 8 to actually contend.

If he doesn't roll Lombardi's team back, he doesn't have to make a decision about what to do after Kopitar's career year. He wound up selling everyone he could anyways so it was a complete waste of time, a waste of time he was all about extending in 2019 as well.

I just don't get why you can't call a spade a spade. The GM is supposed to be able to evaluate his roster and act accordingly. It is pretty much the essence of the position. He was around this group of guys as the AGM so he should have known what he had: his evaluation was that they were contenders in 2018 and that they just needed a scoring winger in 2019 to push them over the top. He was incredibly off the mark. That's important.

I do give him credit for doing a 180 with the Muzzin trade and sticking to a rebuild plan up to this point with the hope that he learned a lot since the start of his tenure. I loved the hip checks and the booming slap shot but I'm not going to pretend that he didn't fail at his initial plan. Now, nobody will care about this (some already don't) if these prospects hit and Blake makes the necessary moves to make the Kings contenders again. We'll look back at it and laugh like we do at the Kyle Calder era and Lombardi's early mistakes. He's going to have to make us not care about how bad he was early on by being great moving forward: he's laying the foundation to do so but it remains to be seen if he will pull it off and I'm not on board with those that feel like he has already pulled it off because The Athletic says the Kings have the best prospect pool. You and I have been around too long and seen too many projected rosters with top prospects that never made it. The rubber is going to hit the road for him when it comes time to trade some of these assets and/or sign free agents.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I still have a really hard time grading Blake harshly given the position he took over in.

But if there's anything I understand, it's trying to figure out the team around an MVP-caliber center, Norris-caliber defender, Vezina-caliber goaltender. It all fell apart right after, and he corrected course relatively quickly. One thing I appreciate about Blake is he doesn't subscribe at all to sunk cost fallacy. And like I said at the end of last season, everything from here on out is his stamp. But for year 1, even year 2? Meh.

 

[psych3man]

I still can't figure out the truth about the Willie D hiring and keeping him. Did Blake and company really think he was going to be an excellent coach when he hired him or did he intentionally hire a shitty coach as a tank. Did he stay with Willie because he thought he would turn it around, because it was tanking or he didn't want to admit his mistake by having to hire a 3rd coach mid year?
The whole Willie D thing is one of the strangest in 50 years of strange King stuff.

 

[Telos]

Meh, there is nothing pre-Muzzin that is so egregious and irreparable that deserves condemnation from the fanbase. You can criticize little maneuvers, but he didn't trade Doughty for beans or something. Tanner was on the Penguins, he could have put up big numbers and proven himself in a big way and he didn't, and Blake still got some value out of him by flipping Hagelin. Sure, Pearson has rebounded a little, but he wasn't worth very much at the time, and we all remember how the team was playing.

Honestly, the team had one of the best centers in the league, one of the best defensemen in the league, and one of the best goaltenders in the league and were still difficult to deal with. I can't criticize him for making a run for it. Despite the flaws the team had and every knowing they could disappoint, just about everyone was expecting a bigger fight than we gave that playoff run, and despite all of our flaws it wasn't a blowout or anything.

Asset and cap management has been good. Kovalchuk doesn't affect anything, Tanner wasn't going to bring in any real assets, and the worst thing we can say is he didn't start the rebuild sooner when he had a very solid core...

 

[BigKing]

I still have a really hard time grading Blake harshly given the position he took over in.

But if there's anything I understand, it's trying to figure out the team around an MVP-caliber center, Norris-caliber defender, Vezina-caliber goaltender. It all fell apart right after, and he corrected course relatively quickly. One thing I appreciate about Blake is he doesn't subscribe at all to sunk cost fallacy. And like I said at the end of last season, everything from here on out is his stamp. But for year 1, even year 2? Meh.

I will only give him a pass on delaying the rebuild if Management basically dictated that they needed to milk the core for as long as possible.

Lombardi came in and immediately traded the team's leading scorer for a 1st and a top prospect. Blake comes in and the line from Management is that they are a contender. Well, when you are spending as much money as AEG was at that time, you might not be ready to pull the cord.

 

[BigKing]

Meh, there is nothing pre-Muzin that is so egregious and irreparable that deserves condemnation from the fanbase. You can criticize little maneuvers, but he didn't trade Doughty for beans or something. Tanner was on the Penguins, he could have put up big numbers and proven himself in a big way and he didn't, and Blake still got some value out of him by flipping Hagelin. Sure, Pearson has rebounded a little, but he wasn't worth very much at the time, and we all remember how the team was playing.

Honestly, the team had one of the best centers in the league, one of the best defensemen in the league, and one of the best goaltenders in the league and were still difficult to deal with. I can't criticize him for making a run for it. Despite the flaws the team had and every knowing they could disappoint, just about everyone was expecting a bigger fight than we gave that playoff run, and despite all of our flaws it wasn't a blowout or anything.

Asset and cap management has been good. Kovalchuk doesn't affect anything, Tanner wasn't going to bring in any real assets, and the worst thing we can say is he didn't start the rebuild sooner when he had a very solid core...

If Pearson isn't worth much at the time, how is that good asset management? He did the right thing holding on Toffoli though, something I was strongly banging the drum for when people wanted him left at the airport during the 2019 season.

Cap management is funny because he has two buyouts on there but it doesn't matter now because they traded pretty much everyone they could that was making money and they don't care about winning. It's more an outcome of the rebuild and tank then savvy cap management.

As for the "core", Lombardi gets eviscerated for continuing to try to win with them but Blake takes over and should get a pass for not rebuilding because of that same core? I mean, it came as no surprise to me that they played better in 2018 simply due to being free of Sutter but nobody thought they were a contender going into that year.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It’s also different coming in and taking over a team that had won Stanley Cups versus a team that had missed the playoffs countless times and have a blank canvas to work with.

 

[BigKing]

It’s also different coming in and taking over a team that had won Stanley Cups versus a team that had missed the playoffs countless times and have a blank canvas to work with.

Of course, but the whole reason that Lombardi sacrificed futures was because he put together a team that had won Cups more recently than when Blake took over.

It is what it is though. Nobody is changing their mind about it. We'll all be able to judge him when coming from the same perspective soon enough.

 

[HeadInjury]

I will only give him a pass on delaying the rebuild if Management basically dictated that they needed to milk the core for as long as possible.

Lombardi came in and immediately traded the team's leading scorer for a 1st and a top prospect. Blake comes in and the line from Management is that they are a contender. Well, when you are spending as much money as AEG was at that time, you might not be ready to pull the cord.

You left out the part where DL also immediately traded for Cloutier and then gave him a contract extension, costing us another draft pick. You also left out where he wasted our highest draft pick in eons the following season on Hickey.

My point is not that DL sucked, but there were many poor choices he made throughout his first few seasons at the helm. Blake's failures are no worse, and the drafting is night and day better.

 

[LAKings88]

I’m not sold on Blake.

Youth movement was necessary.

I got keeping Stevens at the time.

WD was a beyond awful hire.

Phanuef for Gabby made sense and payed off for about ten games after the deal. Said at the time it could bite LA if Gabby goes LTIR.

TMac seems ok. Next year is a big test.

I got Kovy at the time, didn’t like how any of it played out after.

The Muzzin trade was good but will we see Durzi or Grundstrom full time as Kings? At least they got Bjornfot.

Pearson trade was getting rid of a struggling asset with term.

I think Clifford likely should have stayed but we will see what his contract ask will be. Rather him than Lewis but he had trade value so it is what it is.

I don’t like the abruptness of Futa and Stothers being let go? I think they deserved more respect. It’s fine to move on but the way it happened doesn’t sit well.

I think DLs influence will still shape this club but I wonder if his gruffness played into his shelf life in LA.

 

[All The Kings Men]

I wish I could devote entire episodes to some of these threads and conversations...

 

[LAKings88]

You left out the part where DL also immediately traded for Cloutier and then gave him a contract extension, costing us another draft pick. You also left out where he wasted our highest draft pick in eons the following season on Hickey.

My point is not that DL sucked, but there were many poor choices he made throughout his first few seasons at the helm. Blake's failures are no worse, and the drafting is night and day better.

Hickey was a bad reach, compounded by his loss on waivers.

 

[LAKings88]

I wish I could devote entire episodes to some of these threads and conversations...

When is DL gonna write his book already?

 

[Islcey]

What was the offer for Pacioretty anyways? JAD + 2nd + future 1st? (Turcotte)

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

What was the offer for Pacioretty anyways? JAD + 2nd + future 1st? (Turcotte)

Nobody really knows, some variations included Muzzin, others had Vilardi or Jaret-Anderson Dolan. The draft pick was rumored to be the Kupari pick.

 

[Statto]

So far, Blake's done the easy part and Yanetti I'm sure deserves the lion's share credit for the strong drafting. Why DL was successful was the decisions he made to acquire Williams, Richards, Carter and Gaborik. That's the hard part and something Blake hasn't been in the position yet to tackle.

I kind of agree with Blake doing the easy part, but sticking the course and not trying quick fixes is something so many GM’s can’t do. Blake hasn’t second guessed himself since starting the rebuild and deserves credit for that. Also giving Yanetti all the credit for good drafting is unfair as it’s ultimately Blake’s responsibility and I’m sure if our drafting hadn’t been so good you’d be happy blaming Blake for it. It’s a joint success/failure IMO.

You are absolutely right though, the big moves we will inevitably have to make will be what determines how we view Blake’s tenure.

 

[Statto]

I will only give him a pass on delaying the rebuild if Management basically dictated that they needed to milk the core for as long as possible.

I’ve always believed he was told to give it another go, based on how ownership directed things when DL took over.

 

[Telos]

If Pearson isn't worth much at the time, how is that good asset management? He did the right thing holding on Toffoli though, something I was strongly banging the drum for when people wanted him left at the airport during the 2019 season.

Cap management is funny because he has two buyouts on there but it doesn't matter now because they traded pretty much everyone they could that was making money and they don't care about winning. It's more an outcome of the rebuild and tank then savvy cap management.

As for the "core", Lombardi gets eviscerated for continuing to try to win with them but Blake takes over and should get a pass for not rebuilding because of that same core? I mean, it came as no surprise to me that they played better in 2018 simply due to being free of Sutter but nobody thought they were a contender going into that year.

I mean, you're welcome to have your opinions and criticisms on him, but personally I am not going to strike Blake for not predicting Pearson's fall. I wasn't thrilled when he was traded, but looking back on it I don't think it was a terrible mistake either. Pearson is playing better, but he isn't the same player he was. Blake had no guarantee that Pearson was going to rebound and got what he could. He was struggling and had term on his deal.

As far as Lombardi goes, I am in the camp of being very favorable and fond of Lombardi. In the end, he did make some horrendous deals, but that's a guy that earned those mistakes. They didn't need to be made, but for to me all is forgiven when it comes to winning two Stanley Cups. At the moment, Lombardi goes down as the greatest GM the Kings ever had. I don't care what asterisk you want to place next to his name, he is the most successful Kings GM ever period.

The team overachieved, the key players were playing out of their minds, sure they didn't have the depth to have high odds of winning a cup, but they didn't have terrible odds either. Blake inherited a team that had a chance to win it, and he empathized with them being a former player himself who had asked his GM for that same chance... In the end, I give credit to Blake to realizing it wasn't going to work and blowing it up when he did.

While the team isn't amazing now, it certainly isn't a terrible time to be a Kings fan with two cups under our belt and a bright future and we get to sit back and have fun watching these kids develop. No time for sulking in my book.

 

[BigKing]

You left out the part where DL also immediately traded for Cloutier and then gave him a contract extension, costing us another draft pick. You also left out where he wasted our highest draft pick in eons the following season on Hickey.

My point is not that DL sucked, but there were many poor choices he made throughout his first few seasons at the helm. Blake's failures are no worse, and the drafting is night and day better.

I didn't make a list of all of DL's early mistakes but, yes, the Cloutier deal was a joke. Much like Blake with Pacioretty, DL was fortunate that he wasn't able to pull off things like signing Drury or Brad Richards. Fortunate that Smyth asked to be traded going in to 2012. Anyways, the only reason I'm bringing it up is that Lombardi made mistakes early on but was able to overcome them and I'm hoping that Blake can do the same. It was actually a "compliment" to Blake as it is me cutting him some slack and acknowledging that his predecessor made similar dipshit moves early on.

As for the bolded, you're putting the cart before the horse. I don't know how many times it has to be mentioned that the Kings have been in this position before in regards to the prospect rankings:

- Spring 2007 ranked #1 by HF with a Top 5 of Jack Johnson, O'Sullivan, Bernier, Boyle and Tukonen (!)
-Fall 2008 ranked #2 by HF with a Top 5 of Doughty, Bernier, Hickey, Teubert and Purcell with the article mentioning Harrold and Azavedo(!)
-Fall 2009 ranked #5 by HF with a Top 5 of Hickey, Bernier, Schenn, Moller and Voynov.

Outside of Doughty, what are we talking about here? Point being that Turcotte and others could wind up being meh. We don't know so we can't say Blake has drafted better when there are no results yet: only rankings. Blake's draft picks have played a combined 29 NHL games. As you can see by rankings, the wasted draft pick of Hickey was still good enough to headline what was considered a Top 5 prospect pool a full two years after he was drafted.

I mean, I hope he winds up drafting better but it is way too early to say he has.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Here’s a fun exercise. Look at all the GMs who were brought in at the same time as Blake in 2017 and where their teams are at now.

Jason Botterill, hired by the Sabres, now fired.

Dale Tallon, hired by the Panthers, and they’ve accomplished nothing. Tallon has overspent on underperforming free agents like Bobrovsky, Stralmam, etc, and have a slew of significant players to re-sign.

If you jump one year prior to 2016 hires, you have John Chayka and Pierre Dorion to consider. Chayka has spent to the cap and has put the Coyotes in cap hell and I don’t think I need to elaborate any further on Pierre Dorion and his awful moves. He lucked out with the Karlsson trade, but trading Zinanejad for Brassard then trading for Matt Duchene were colossal mistakes.

Would anyone want to trade places with any of those clubs?

 

[KINGS17]

Here’s a fun exercise. Look at all the GMs who were brought in at the same time as Blake in 2017 and where their teams are at now.

Jason Botterill, hired by the Sabres, now fired.

Dale Tallon, hired by the Panthers, and they’ve accomplished nothing. Tallon has overspent on underperforming free agents like Bobrovsky, Stralmam, etc, and have a slew of significant players to re-sign.

If you jump one year prior to 2016 hires, you have John Chayka and Pierre Dorion to consider. Chayka has spent to the cap and has put the Coyotes in cap hell and do I don’t think I need to elaborate any further on Pierre Dorion and his awful moves. He lucked out with the Karlsson trade, but trading Zinanejad for Brassard then trading for Matt Duchene were colossal mistakes.

Would anyone want to trade places with any of those clubs?

It's a little too soon in Blake's tenure to compare him to Tallon in Florida. I think the Bobrovsky move was a big mistake. However, it was time for Tallon to try to augment his roster with additional talent, because as a core Huberdeau, Barkov, and Ekbland are in their prime right now. Tallon made a big mistake giving Bob a $10M cap hit contract though. A GM should never pay that much for a single goalie.

Let's see what Blake does when Byfield hits his mid-twenties, and Vilardi is in this later-twenties. The Kings are still going to need help on the back end. They don't have a true #1 defenseman in the pipeline at this time. Definitely some potential top four defensemen to choose from in the early 2nd round of this draft.

 

[LAKings88]

Roy
Bjornfot
Anderson
Hults
Spence
Clague
Durzi
Walker

solid pieces on defense but no Makar, Hughes, or Drysdale.