Speculation: 2019-20 News/Rumors,Roster thread Post Deadline

[kingsfan28]

I think of the "what if we drafted EK instead of Colten Teubert" thing but Darryl Sutter would have used him to clean the tailpipe of his tractor

I have wondered more than once "what if" they did draft EK, would he have been the same free wheeling player he became or would the King's defense first mantra knock the offense out of him? Or would he have been the one to be traded for Carter instead of Johnson? You got to admit, having Doughty and EK together would've been pretty interesting.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'll make it plain if you can't see it yourself. He is overrated. Got it? Overrated, not bad, not great but just -- overrated. Burrows hit, absurdly overrated -- the game was over by then. Burrows was up immediately after it. Jeez people. Kings won a cup in 2014 with him doing not much of anything at all. He had barely more points than Kyle Clifford. And for crissakes learn what a strawman is. Jeez.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

Burrows hit happened on what would have been their last charge up ice, so no, the game was not 'over'.

 

[cyclones22]

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

Burrows hit happened on what would have been their last charge up ice, so no, the game was not 'over'.

LOL that hit essentially ended the game for Vancouver. It resulted in Vancouver fumbling with the puck on their ensuing zone entry which led to the face-off outside the zone and then Brown's empty-netter.

 

[HookKing]

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

Burrows hit happened on what would have been their last charge up ice, so no, the game was not 'over'.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Yep, Richards was a good player thru the 2013 playoffs but you have people on here claiming that he pretty much brought the kings two cups by himself. Perhaps his biggest value may have been if he played any role at all in getting Carter to the Kings (with the bonus of getting rid of JMFJ). Without JC the Kings don't even make the playoffs in 2012 much less win the cup.

Oh I know that players on this team produce less than they would on other teams. But your basically talking about a 50% drop in production in his best season with us compared to his last with Philly. And it only gets worse from there.

Carter came here and produced as expected. Well past his prime Gaborik even rebounded and put up a decent season here.

Richards had slipped so much by the time we got him and then fell off a cliff quickly. It's why I pointed out his plus minus too. He just wasn't particularly impressive in a Kings uni ever imo. Solid player for a couple years with us but at his best (which didn't last long) he was probably about our 5th or 6th best forward. And we weren't exactly a team with a number of high end forwards.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Schenn turned out to be a good player as we all thought he would be down the road, and Simmonds hurt immediately, also as we all thought. The pick turned out to be negligible. It was a win now move that worked perfectly. But the boldfaced is demonstrably false, and no, I'm pretty confident we wouldn't have won without Richards because in his stead we would have been trotting out Stoll/Schenn as 2Cs. On the third best offensive team in the league, Brayden Schenn had a whopping 18 points in 2012.

2012
Schenn: 18 pts, 3rd best offense in league, 15th in the roster on scoring regular season. Then they had that shitshow pens-flyers series where he had 9 in 11 games(!) for 4th on the roster.
Richards: 44 pts, 2nd worst offense in league, sub 200 goals. 4th on the roster in scoring both regular season and playoffs (higher production in playoffs, 15 in 20 games which is a 62 pt pace).

2013
Schenn: 26 pts, pace for 45 pts (lockout season, oddly LA and PHI identical offenses), 5th on the roster in scoring, no playoffs.
Richards: 32 pts, pace for 55pts, 4th on the roster in scoring again, 3rd on roster in playoffs scoring with 12 in 15, which is a 66 pt pace.

2014
Schenn: 41 pts, Philly 9th offense, 6th in team scoring, 9th in playoff scoring, 3 in 1 7 game series
Richards: 41 pts, 26th offense. 4th in team scoring again, 12th in playoff scoring, 10 in 26 games, 32 pt pace.

2014, this is the point where their careers coincided and Schenn went up while Richards went down. I think people generally forget how f***ing good Mike Richards was in 2013, he looked to be back to "full" Mike Richards until Bolland decapitated him, and it was all downhill after that.

So on a team whose center depth, grit and intangibles were a major strength, no, I don't think we win the first cup without Richards and the butterfly effect thereafter, especially given his elevated scoring and presence in playoffs in 2012 and 2013 with clutch play in 2014.

Edit: and that's just from a raw production standpoint, never mind the intangibles difference, the swagger Richards had in f***ing destroying Burrows for example, being unflappable. Whereas the biggest knock on schenn going back to even the WJC was his softness in big games, for a kid with a big body to be so timid when he flashed the power forward potential vs. lesser competition. Fortunately for him he put it all together in later years, especially recently, but not early enough to help us in 2012-2014.




Oh boy, here we go with the strawmen again...

I'm not going to address the whole thing. But in regards to Simmonds. He scored 70 points in his last two seasons with us. He was obviously very young at the time. But out of those 70 points, 1 point was on the PP. Simmonds immediately became one of the most reliable PP goal scorers in the league immediately after leaving our team.
To put that in perspective the most even strength points Richards ever had with us was his first season when he had 39. Simmonds had 40 in his second season in the league with us.

There is no question that Simmonds would have been an upgrade over Richards on the PP. He just didn't get a chance here. I also doubt that Richards intangibles outweigh Simmonds intangibles. But I guess that's why they are intangibles we could argue over that but wouldn't get anywhere.

It's true that Schenn was worse initially. But Simmonds wasn't. And then Schenn was at least similar to Richards by the time we won our second cup.
And I think the second cup also shows that we could win without Richards being a crucial part of the team.

Does acquiring Richards allow us to get Carter? Maybe, and if that's the case he was worth it lol. But that's a different type of argument.

The amazing trade for us was certainly Carter for JMFJ we might have upgraded simply by getting rid of that defensive catastrophe and on top of it we got our legit #2C and completely turned out franchise around. So if Richards was the reason for that then I'll trade Simmonds, Schenn, and JMFJ for Richards and Carter all day lol

 

[ru4reals]

People are apparently stuck on the 2015 Richards and forgot he was alive in previous years.

Yeah I've always been a fan of Richards even when he was in Philly. Just loved his tenacity and his heart for his size. I couldn't believe the day we got him I was beyond excited. Hate to say it but was sort of rooting for the Flyers against the Hawks back in 2010. I was pretty bummed the way his career ended here in LA and how he exited. I wished his body and game didn't deteriorate the way it did. But like I said no Richards no Cup.

 

[ru4reals]

Wow after reading the past two pages can't believe people are all over Richards. Dayem I'd do that trade again all day for Richards. However much he contributed we got two Cups with Richards on the team Philly got nothing. I was never a fan of Brayden Schenn, never lived up to his potential in my opinion. Simmons was a really good player but no way in HELL we win two cups with Schenn and Simmons let alone one.

 

[Herby]

Wow after reading the past two pages can't believe people are all over Richards. Dayem I'd do that trade again all day for Richards. However much he contributed we got two Cups with Richards on the team Philly got nothing. I was never a fan of Brayden Schenn, never lived up to his potential in my opinion. Simmons was a really good player but no way in HELL we win two cups with Schenn and Simmons let alone one.

Two parts to the Richards era in LA. One as a great 2nd line center and key player on a cup winning team and one as he really struggled badly to keep up with the pace of play. Most of the discussion and debates about the player happened on this board after the 2013 playoffs, which was the last time the first era MR ever appeared. I have the opinion that the original trade was a winner for the Kings, the only roster mistake the Kings made was not using the compliance buyout, and even that was minimized by the termination settlement agreement.

I do kind of think people on this board sometimes downgrade how great and impactful the Big 3 were in their primes when they say "We never would have won a cup without 'Player A' or 'Coach B'. " I think it kind of sells them short a little

 

[Fishhead]

Two parts to the Richards era in LA. One as a great 2nd line center and key player on a cup winning team and one as he really struggled badly to keep up with the pace of play. Most of the discussion and debates about the player happened on this board after the 2013 playoffs, which was the last time the first era MR ever appeared. I have the opinion that the original trade was a winner for the Kings, the only roster mistake the Kings made was not using the compliance buyout, and even that was minimized by the termination settlement agreement.

I do kind of think people on this board sometimes downgrade how great and impactful the Big 3 were in their primes when they say "We never would have won a cup without 'Player A' or 'Coach B'. " I think it kind of sells them short a little

Even the crappier version of MR could have an impact, like in the 2014 playoffs. With all his physical troubles he could still elevate his game.

He had a nice assist with 7 seconds left to send the game to OT in game 1 vs. Anaheim, which they won
He had a goal and an assist in the first period of game 7 in Anaheim, which gave the Kings a stranglehold on that contest.
He made a nice play and pass to Williams very late in the 2nd period in game 2 in Chicago, which gave the struggling Kings some life and momentum. They scored 5 in the third
He made a great read, intercepted the puck, and assisted on the OT winner in Game 1 in the finals

Had they bought him out, I think he'd be remembered 10x more fondly around here.

 

[ru4reals]

Two parts to the Richards era in LA. One as a great 2nd line center and key player on a cup winning team and one as he really struggled badly to keep up with the pace of play. Most of the discussion and debates about the player happened on this board after the 2013 playoffs, which was the last time the first era MR ever appeared. I have the opinion that the original trade was a winner for the Kings, the only roster mistake the Kings made was not using the compliance buyout, and even that was minimized by the termination settlement agreement.

I do kind of think people on this board sometimes downgrade how great and impactful the Big 3 were in their primes when they say "We never would have won a cup without 'Player A' or 'Coach B'. " I think it kind of sells them short a little

Totally agree with ya and I don't mean to sell anyone short especially the big three I'm just saying Richard's played a good part in helping us win is all. It really solidified our number 2 center and of course getting Carter was a massive help as well. But in no way I'm selling the big three short it was a team effort where everyone played their roll in accomplishing what the Kings have never done before.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I have wondered more than once "what if" they did draft EK, would he have been the same free wheeling player he became or would the King's defense first mantra knock the offense out of him? Or would he have been the one to be traded for Carter instead of Johnson? You got to admit, having Doughty and EK together would've been pretty interesting.

If they take Karlsson at 13, do they take Voynov at 32? They took Voynov after taking Teubert, who was a RHD too, but a different kind than Karlsson. They also could've gone Doughty, Karlsson, and Josi. If they have Josi, do they give Scuderi a 4 year deal in 2009? If they don't offer a 4 year deal, do they get him to come to the west coast? Do they take the shot with Mitchell, and offer a 2 year deal in 2010 to a guy coming off a concussion? I believe SJ and Was were the other teams looking at him, better teams than the Kings at the time, but they were both 1 year deals, for less overall money.

If Carter still pouts his way out of Columbus in an alternate time line, then it'll still cost only Johnson to get him. That's a big part of the reason the package was far less to get him from Columbus than from Philly.

Oh I know that players on this team produce less than they would on other teams. But your basically talking about a 50% drop in production in his best season with us compared to his last with Philly. And it only gets worse from there.

Carter came here and produced as expected. Well past his prime Gaborik even rebounded and put up a decent season here.

Richards had slipped so much by the time we got him and then fell off a cliff quickly. It's why I pointed out his plus minus too. He just wasn't particularly impressive in a Kings uni ever imo. Solid player for a couple years with us but at his best (which didn't last long) he was probably about our 5th or 6th best forward. And we weren't exactly a team with a number of high end forwards.

After Carter sure, but before that, I'm not sure how you find 4 better forwards. Even after Carter, to put Richards 6th would be a stretch.

I'm not going to address the whole thing. But in regards to Simmonds. He scored 70 points in his last two seasons with us. He was obviously very young at the time. But out of those 70 points, 1 point was on the PP. Simmonds immediately became one of the most reliable PP goal scorers in the league immediately after leaving our team.
To put that in perspective the most even strength points Richards ever had with us was his first season when he had 39. Simmonds had 40 in his second season in the league with us.

There is no question that Simmonds would have been an upgrade over Richards on the PP. He just didn't get a chance here. I also doubt that Richards intangibles outweigh Simmonds intangibles. But I guess that's why they are intangibles we could argue over that but wouldn't get anywhere.

It's true that Schenn was worse initially. But Simmonds wasn't. And then Schenn was at least similar to Richards by the time we won our second cup.
And I think the second cup also shows that we could win without Richards being a crucial part of the team.

Does acquiring Richards allow us to get Carter? Maybe, and if that's the case he was worth it lol. But that's a different type of argument.

The amazing trade for us was certainly Carter for JMFJ we might have upgraded simply by getting rid of that defensive catastrophe and on top of it we got our legit #2C and completely turned out franchise around. So if Richards was the reason for that then I'll trade Simmonds, Schenn, and JMFJ for Richards and Carter all day lol

Carter was never part of the plan. They lucked out that he wanted out of Columbus, and were willing/able to take on a guy in the 1st year of an 11 year contract, who was already 27 years old. You would never want to sign a 27 year old UFA to an 11 year deal, even if that was allowed today. Gagne was part of the plan. Penner was part of the plan. Luckily Gagne got hurt, that moved Brown to LW, which opened up a huge hole on RW, and Carter fit nicely in that spot.

If Gagne doesn't get hurt, and if Penner could've scored 15-20 goals, not just 7, maybe there's no Carter, as there would've been no need. The 2012 deadline could've been different. What does DL use that 1st round pick on? Do they keep the pick? DL loved defensemen. That the Kings got through the 2012 playoffs with 0 games lost to injury by any of the top 6 was yet another stroke of good luck. Look at 2014, and not only did they lose Regehr for the majority of those playoffs, but Mitchell was also gone for basically an entire series. That team was a legit 7 deep on defense, and still had to play Jeff Schultz for a full 7 game series. The 2013 playoffs were a bit of a mess as well between Greene, Martinez, and Mitchell all being in and/or out the whole time.

Same with Voynov in 2015. If he doesn't commit a crime, there's likely no Sekera. Do they keep that pick, or use it for something else? How different is that wasted season?

 

[BringTheReign]

Getzlaf was on Spittin' Chiclets earlier this week, and he talked about Doughty almost missing the bus out of Sochi at 2014 to go with the Mike Richards story of sleeping in before the 2010 gold medal game. Doughty is such a nut (in a good way).

Also, as much as it pains me to say, Getzlaf seems like a pretty awesome guy. It was a great listen.

 

[cyclones22]

Honestly, I don't think about what ifs when it comes to the last 10 seasons. A lot happened for the way things to turn out the way they did, both good and bad. For example, even though we'll be paying the piper on this for years, thank goodness the Flyers decided to turn the page on Richards and Carter and their contracts. I view it as lay-away payments for 2 Cups . Getting Scuderi to come from the East, getting Mitchell by adding the extra year, trading for "injury-prone" Justin Williams. Thanks to all those dominos falling just right, it allowed me to finally let go of the '93 SCF what if.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Getzlaf was on Spittin' Chiclets earlier this week, and he talked about Doughty almost missing the bus out of Sochi at 2014 to go with the Mike Richards story of sleeping in before the 2010 gold medal game. Doughty is such a nut (in a good way).

Also, as much as it pains me to say, Getzlaf seems like a pretty awesome guy. It was a great listen.

Most of those guys are regular decent people really.

 

[TruKingFan]

Honestly, I don't think about what ifs when it comes to the last 10 seasons. A lot happened for the way things to turn out the way they did, both good and bad. For example, even though we'll be paying the piper on this for years, thank goodness the Flyers decided to turn the page on Richards and Carter and their contracts. I view it as lay-away payments for 2 Cups . Getting Scuderi to come from the East, getting Mitchell by adding the extra year, trading for "injury-prone" Justin Williams. Thanks to all those dominos falling just right, it allowed me to finally let go of the '93 SCF what if.

Totally agree. 1993 SCF was a HUGE what if that many thought was never going to be redeemed ever.

 

[KopitarFAN]

Look at what Ray Ferraro is wearing.

 

[BringTheReign]

Most of those guys are regular decent people really.

Oh, I know, I'm just playing into the rivalry a bit. I grew up in north Orange County and live in San Diego now, and I've probably met more Ducks players than Kings players. I've never had a bad experience meeting any pros (though I know that isn't always the case).

 

[Stumbling Jack]

Even the crappier version of MR could have an impact, like in the 2014 playoffs. With all his physical troubles he could still elevate his game.

He had a nice assist with 7 seconds left to send the game to OT in game 1 vs. Anaheim, which they won
He had a goal and an assist in the first period of game 7 in Anaheim, which gave the Kings a stranglehold on that contest.
He made a nice play and pass to Williams very late in the 2nd period in game 2 in Chicago, which gave the struggling Kings some life and momentum. They scored 5 in the third
He made a great read, intercepted the puck, and assisted on the OT winner in Game 1 in the finals

Had they bought him out, I think he'd be remembered 10x more fondly around here.

I was going to post something similar but you couldn't put it any better. After watching the 2014 cup run a while back I really wonder if the Ducks would have won the series if they held on game 1. Selanne was holding on to the GWG which would have fired everyone up going into game 2.

After watching OT in game 5 I recall Richards having a couple of real good looks. Can you imagine if he potted the GWG instead of AMart? He definitely wouldn't have been bought out but his legacy as a King would have been even more siginificant.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Oh what a joyous day this was. Someone please revive the epic GDT and PGT from that day.

 

[The Tikkanen]

Totally agree with ya and I don't mean to sell anyone short especially the big three I'm just saying Richard's played a good part in helping us win is all. It really solidified our number 2 center and of course getting Carter was a massive help as well. But in no way I'm selling the big three short it was a team effort where everyone played their roll in accomplishing what the Kings have never done before.

I don't think you can discount the importance of a solid 2 way center or a stay at home dman in Sutter's system. Richard is the guy you want in your foxhole type, never skated away from a scrum-he basically was a Sutter Brother.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I don't think you can discount the importance of a solid 2 way center or a stay at home dman in Sutter's system. Richard is the guy you want in your foxhole type, never skated away from a scrum-he basically was a Sutter Brother.

He's 5th on the list of all time Dean Lombardi type players. The first 4 are all Mike Ricci.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

He's 5th on the list of all time Dean Lombardi type players. The first 4 are all Mike Ricci.

Dean Lombardi’s all-star starting lineup:

Mike Ricci
Mike Richards
Scott Thornton
Robyn Regehr
Matt Greene
Dan Cloutier

 

[raswilliam]

I have wondered more than once "what if" they did draft EK, would he have been the same free wheeling player he became or would the King's defense first mantra knock the offense out of him? Or would he have been the one to be traded for Carter instead of Johnson? You got to admit, having Doughty and EK together would've been pretty interesting.

I still have my hockey news draft issue from 2008, EK was ranked like 45 or something. He was also undersized, something like 159 lbs. Hindsight.

 

[verbalkint47]

I still have my hockey news draft issue from 2008, EK was ranked like 45 or something. He was also undersized, something like 159 lbs. Hindsight.

Tyler Myers was the guy everyone whined about missing out on. He was taken a pick after Teubert and won the Calder. Nobody even brought up EK until a few years after the draft, when he blew up.