Speculation: 2019-20 News/Rumors,Roster thread Post Deadline

[raswilliam]

For all the Richie haters

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Pretty straight forward article. I pulled the Kings and Oilers for comparison. When your highest paid players aren't the most bang-for-the-buck players you are going to be near last place. Also threw the Blackhawks and Avalanche in as other comparative data points. Edmonton needs Connor McDavid to pick up his performance and get on this list if they are going to win it all some day. He is overpaid at this time.

By the numbers: The best value contract on every NHL team

Los Angeles Kings

PLAYER	GSVA/82	XWIN	DIFFERENCE	CAP HIT (M)	YEARS LEFT
Matt Roy	2.08	-0.26	2.33	$0.70	1
Ben Hutton	1.09	-0.02	1.11	$1.50	0
Alex Iafallo	1.48	0.45	1.03	$2.43	1
Tyler Toffoli	2.14	1.13	1.02	$4.60	0
Blake Lizotte	0.43	-0.02	0.45	$0.93	1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Edmonton Oilers

PLAYER	GSVA/82	XWIN	DIFFERENCE	CAP HIT (M)	YEARS LEFT
Kailer Yamamoto	3.92	-0.03	3.95	$0.89	1
Leon Draisaitl	4.18	2.34	1.84	$8.50	5
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins	2.72	1.56	1.16	$6.00	1
Caleb Jones	0.84	-0.25	1.09	$0.72	0
Zack Kassian	1.04	0.3	0.74	$1.95	0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Chicago Blackhawks

PLAYER	GSVA/82	XWIN	DIFFERENCE	CAP HIT (M)	YEARS LEFT
Dominik Kubalik	1.66	-0.02	1.68	$0.93	0
Dylan Strome	1.38	-0.04	1.43	$0.86	0
Slater Koekkoek	1.23	-0.19	1.42	$0.93	0
Alex Debrincat	1.28	-0.07	1.35	$0.78	0
Kirby Dach	0.29	-0.02	0.31	$0.93	2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Colorado Avalanche

PLAYER	GSVA/82	XWIN	DIFFERENCE	CAP HIT (M)	YEARS LEFT
Cale Makar	3.52	-0.2	3.73	$0.88	1
Nathan MacKinnon	4.91	1.66	3.25	$6.30	3
Valeri Nichushkin	2.22	-0.05	2.26	$0.85	0
Ryan Graves	1.86	-0.25	2.1	$0.74	0
Samuel Girard	1.81	-0.25	2.06	$0.73	0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

It's a good, fair read.

I will always disagree with the premise because I think 'cost effective' becomes an oxymoron if the player is any good. Most of the names on that list are either RFAs or guys who got a sneaky good contract before exploding (like Mackinnon). They're either going to be awesome and get paid (McDavid) or not-awesome and not get paid. Almost by definition the best players aren't going to be good 'bang-for-the-buck' players.

The Myth of Mike Richards was part of getting him in the first place. It's why DL couldn't let him go when he got lost in his eyes in the cabin on the crisp Canadian lake.

Kopitar-Richards-Stoll-Richardson
That center depth was fun.

But that's part of what makes hockey fun, otherwise we'd just default to paper champs.

How many times have we had to say it will be 'easy' to 'replace' Stoll? There are far more talented productive players than him, Greene, Regehr, Mitchell, even Williams, etc.

I agree on one hand that the Richards mythos is a bit bonkers at times but I enjoy believing it because 1. we saw it first hand, 2. it drives the spreadsheet-only people crazy, 3. part of what makes hockey great and players legends is what they do to grind out a win vs. a superior opponent, like watching Richards dance the blueline, partially-absorb/dodge a Getzlaf check (a player with a large size and skill advantage), and pause the game before flinging a pass across to a washed-up scorer another team couldn't wait to get rid of only to watch said scorer battling in front vs. much bigger players and banging in the puck before getting planted on his ass.

But this forum blows my mind sometimes, I can't believe that anyone that watched the 2012-2014 Kings can even remotely have the balls to question the value of intangibles.

 

[psych3man]

I don't know why you Richards haters are so unwilling to acknowledge his importance and positive influence on the Kings from June 2011 - Cup in 2014.
I will stipulate Justin Williams is A++ intangibles.
Richards from 6/11 through Cup '12 was A+ intangibles.
Williams and Richards together were foundational in making Kings history possible.

 

[The Tikkanen]

It's a good, fair read.

I will always disagree with the premise because I think 'cost effective' becomes an oxymoron if the player is any good. Most of the names on that list are either RFAs or guys who got a sneaky good contract before exploding (like Mackinnon). They're either going to be awesome and get paid (McDavid) or not-awesome and not get paid. Almost by definition the best players aren't going to be good 'bang-for-the-buck' players.






But that's part of what makes hockey fun, otherwise we'd just default to paper champs.

How many times have we had to say it will be 'easy' to 'replace' Stoll? There are far more talented productive players than him, Greene, Regehr, Mitchell, even Williams, etc.

I agree on one hand that the Richards mythos is a bit bonkers at times but I enjoy believing it because 1. we saw it first hand, 2. it drives the spreadsheet-only people crazy, 3. part of what makes hockey great and players legends is what they do to grind out a win vs. a superior opponent, like watching Richards dance the blueline, partially-absorb/dodge a Getzlaf check (a player with a large size and skill advantage), and pause the game before flinging a pass across to a washed-up scorer another team couldn't wait to get rid of only to watch said scorer battling in front vs. much bigger players and banging in the puck before getting planted on his ass.

But this forum blows my mind sometimes, I can't believe that anyone that watched the 2012-2014 Kings can even remotely have the balls to question the value of intangibles.

I think Lombardi did a good job of targeting former captains of teams to make the locker room more intense. When you look into the locker room now who is pushing these guys on a Wednesday night game against Phoenix?

 

[KingsFan7824]

But that's part of what makes hockey fun, otherwise we'd just default to paper champs.

How many times have we had to say it will be 'easy' to 'replace' Stoll? There are far more talented productive players than him, Greene, Regehr, Mitchell, even Williams, etc.

I agree on one hand that the Richards mythos is a bit bonkers at times but I enjoy believing it because 1. we saw it first hand, 2. it drives the spreadsheet-only people crazy, 3. part of what makes hockey great and players legends is what they do to grind out a win vs. a superior opponent, like watching Richards dance the blueline, partially-absorb/dodge a Getzlaf check (a player with a large size and skill advantage), and pause the game before flinging a pass across to a washed-up scorer another team couldn't wait to get rid of only to watch said scorer battling in front vs. much bigger players and banging in the puck before getting planted on his ass.

But this forum blows my mind sometimes, I can't believe that anyone that watched the 2012-2014 Kings can even remotely have the balls to question the value of intangibles.

I was for keeping Richards in June 2014, because I not only bought into the myth of Richards, but also that Kings team. There was something special about that group, and I got keeping as many of them together as possible. Then as quickly as they came onto the big stage, they left. There was no decade+ long contention written into the fiber of that squad, as much as DL wanted Detroit 2.0. I was for getting Lucic, as you don't get many chances to win 3 in 5, so I feel DL had to take the shot. You can always rebuild.

I think Lombardi did a good job of targeting former captains of teams to make the locker room more intense. When you look into the locker room now who is pushing these guys on a Wednesday night game against Phoenix?

Those teams had a lot of vets that hadn't won yet, and a young wave of players led by Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick. Today, the vets that are left have won, and up until recently, the young players on the team weren't anywhere close to Kopitar, Doughty, or Quick. The franchise paid Doughty for what he did, and now it has to give him a reason to perform as best he can. The only way to do that is to give him some teammates that are somewhere close to his level, that can produce by his side. A guy like Doughty has nothing left to play for, other than the spirit of truly competing for the Cup again.

The two parts have to come together. The vets have to care, and there have to be young players with legit talent, who will force spoiled vets to be engaged. We finally got a taste of that with Vilardi, and hopefully with Turcotte, and whoever they get this year. They haven't had that in a decade. We thought maybe Toffoli and Pearson, but no, they weren't those guys.

 

[BigKing]

Richards was 4th on the Kings in playoff scoring in 2012. Same number of points as Justin Williams and more points than Carter. The only two forwards who produced more points were Brown and Kopitar.

In 2013, Richards was 3rd in playoff scoring on the Kings, only forward to produce more was Jeff Carter. Richards had more playoff points than Williams, Kopitar, Brown, etc.

It wasn’t until 2014 when Richards saw his role severely diminished (and that was justifiable). He still made a number of important plays though, like being responsible for the tying goal against the Ducks in Game 1, and also in OT against the Rangers in Game 1, setting up Williams with the game winner.

There’s no doubt his play and performance fell off a cliff, but Richards was still a valuable piece on the Kings in their three-year run. To deny that is simply being dense.

He also broke Couture's hand with his face in Game 6 of the 2014 series, impacting Couture's effectiveness for Game 7.

I watched Games 1 and 2 of the 2012 WCF last week. Richards was awesome. Stoll was awesome. Hell, Trevor Lewis was all over the place.

Anyways, Richards isn't homegrown and his exit was ugly so I understand why some crap on him although I don't agree with it. To downplay his importance during his first three seasons is willful ignorance as is the idea that they would have won the Cups anyways if they kept Simmonds and Schenn.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

He really did have some of the strangest fights, especially in the playoffs. Couture, Oshie, Scott Gomez. And then fought Hanzal that one random game Can never accused him of staged scraps that's for sure

 

[cyclones22]

He really did have some of the strangest fights, especially in the playoffs. Couture, Oshie, Scott Gomez. And then fought Hanzal that one random game Can never accused him of staged scraps that's for sure

I love MR's heart and he and Carter lifting the Cup in 2012 is one of my favorite memories of that run after being dragged through the mud by their previous teams. But small dudes should not be fighting. Same with Deadmarsh, it's just too big of a risk. So when I see crap like Doughty or Brown should answer the bell for whatever stupid reason, my answer is a resounding F NO.

 

[KINGS17]

It's a good, fair read.

I will always disagree with the premise because I think 'cost effective' becomes an oxymoron if the player is any good. Most of the names on that list are either RFAs or guys who got a sneaky good contract before exploding (like Mackinnon). They're either going to be awesome and get paid (McDavid) or not-awesome and not get paid. Almost by definition the best players aren't going to be good 'bang-for-the-buck' players.

Maybe a somewhat surprising big-money outlier, Auston Matthews appears to be worth every penny. His infamously overpaid teammates who are forwards, not so much.

Toronto Maple Leafs

PLAYER	GSVA/82	XWIN	DIFFERENCE	CAP HIT (M)	YEARS LEFT
Zach Hyman	2.26	0.39	1.87	$2.25	1
Ilya Mikheyev	1.56	-0.02	1.58	$0.93	0
Auston Matthews	4.59	3.32	1.27	$11.63	4
Justin Holl	0.9	-0.26	1.16	$0.68	0
Travis Dermott	0.92	-0.21	1.13	$0.86	0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[kingsboy11]

FSW is replaying the 4 wins against the Devils in the cup final. Game 1 is currently going on and Colin Fraser just scored. I remember at the time I was in the middle of soccer practice and my coach at the time spoiled me by saying someone named Fraser scored and I was so stunned.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Maybe a somewhat surprising big-money outlier, Auston Matthews appears to be worth every penny. His infamously overpaid teammates who are forwards, not so much.

Toronto Maple Leafs

PLAYER	GSVA/82	XWIN	DIFFERENCE	CAP HIT (M)	YEARS LEFT
Zach Hyman	2.26	0.39	1.87	$2.25	1
Ilya Mikheyev	1.56	-0.02	1.58	$0.93	0
Auston Matthews	4.59	3.32	1.27	$11.63	4
Justin Holl	0.9	-0.26	1.16	$0.68	0
Travis Dermott	0.92	-0.21	1.13	$0.86	0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Surprise, anything ot make the Leafs look good.

I wonder how much of that is based on the fact that his big money deal just kicked in this year, or also that it's a 'pace' stat, and dude can't stay healthy.

It's like calling someone a PPG player when they can only stay healthy for 2/3 a season or calling a goalie elite after 40 games (cough brian elliott), how you finish counts.

Nevertheless Matthew's is awesome and gets a raw deal outside of Leafland, he's legit elite and absolutely worth that money...the article even says something to the effect of the top 5 players in the league are amost always paid accurately.

 

[KINGS17]

Surprise, anything ot make the Leafs look good.

I wonder how much of that is based on the fact that his big money deal just kicked in this year, or also that it's a 'pace' stat, and dude can't stay healthy.

It's like calling someone a PPG player when they can only stay healthy for 2/3 a season or calling a goalie elite after 40 games (cough brian elliott), how you finish counts.

Nevertheless Matthew's is awesome and gets a raw deal outside of Leafland, he's legit elite and absolutely worth that money...the article even says something to the effect of the top 5 players in the league are amost always paid accurately.

Almost is the key phrase here though. A lot of depth has been sacrificed on the Leafs squad in chasing high-priced forwards. Top five in the NHL right now in no particular order for me are:

McDavid
Matthews
MacKinnon
Hedman
Draisaitl

I would be happy to start a team with any of those players right now. Hedman is on the bubble for me though. He could be replaced on this list if I gave it some more thought. These guys are off the top of my head.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The top 4 are no-brainers almost certainly, the 5th is more difficult

 

[BringTheReign]

Almost is the key phrase here though. A lot of depth has been sacrificed on the Leafs squad in chasing high-priced forwards. Top five in the NHL right now in no particular order for me are:

McDavid
Matthews
MacKinnon
Hedman
Draisaitl

I would be happy to start a team with any of those players right now. Hedman is on the bubble for me though. He could be replaced on this list if I gave it some more thought. These guys are off the top of my head.

I'd pick MacKinnon over all of them for 2 reasons:

1. Watching McDavid dance through everyone is great, but MacKinnon is like watching a bull in a china shop. McDavid scores at will, but it's so fast that it almost catches you by surprise, whereas everyone can see MacKinnon coming from a mile away because he doesn't shun contact, but he still scores. It's a hell of a lot of fun to watch.
2. He worships Crosby, and as such I think he might be one of the few superstars that means it when he says he'll take less to keep the team together. Sid took that 8.7M deal when he could've signed for 10+ back then, and I bet MacKinnon will do the same when his deal is over (relative to whatever the Cap is at that time).

 

[King'sPawn]

Pretty straight forward article. I pulled the Kings and Oilers for comparison. When your highest paid players aren't the most bang-for-the-buck players you are going to be near last place. Also threw the Blackhawks and Avalanche in as other comparative data points. Edmonton needs Connor McDavid to pick up his performance and get on this list if they are going to win it all some day. He is overpaid at this time.

By the numbers: The best value contract on every NHL team

Los Angeles Kings

PLAYER	GSVA/82	XWIN	DIFFERENCE	CAP HIT (M)	YEARS LEFT
Matt Roy	2.08	-0.26	2.33	$0.70	1
Ben Hutton	1.09	-0.02	1.11	$1.50	0
Alex Iafallo	1.48	0.45	1.03	$2.43	1
Tyler Toffoli	2.14	1.13	1.02	$4.60	0
Blake Lizotte	0.43	-0.02	0.45	$0.93	1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Edmonton Oilers

PLAYER	GSVA/82	XWIN	DIFFERENCE	CAP HIT (M)	YEARS LEFT
Kailer Yamamoto	3.92	-0.03	3.95	$0.89	1
Leon Draisaitl	4.18	2.34	1.84	$8.50	5
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins	2.72	1.56	1.16	$6.00	1
Caleb Jones	0.84	-0.25	1.09	$0.72	0
Zack Kassian	1.04	0.3	0.74	$1.95	0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Chicago Blackhawks

PLAYER	GSVA/82	XWIN	DIFFERENCE	CAP HIT (M)	YEARS LEFT
Dominik Kubalik	1.66	-0.02	1.68	$0.93	0
Dylan Strome	1.38	-0.04	1.43	$0.86	0
Slater Koekkoek	1.23	-0.19	1.42	$0.93	0
Alex Debrincat	1.28	-0.07	1.35	$0.78	0
Kirby Dach	0.29	-0.02	0.31	$0.93	2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Colorado Avalanche

PLAYER	GSVA/82	XWIN	DIFFERENCE	CAP HIT (M)	YEARS LEFT
Cale Makar	3.52	-0.2	3.73	$0.88	1
Nathan MacKinnon	4.91	1.66	3.25	$6.30	3
Valeri Nichushkin	2.22	-0.05	2.26	$0.85	0
Ryan Graves	1.86	-0.25	2.1	$0.74	0
Samuel Girard	1.81	-0.25	2.06	$0.73	0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Was there a particular reason you left out the past two cup winners, the St. Louis Blues and Washington Capitals? A couple of their key players are also missing from the top five of best-value contracts.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

 

[KINGS17]

Was there a particular reason you left out the past two cup winners, the St. Louis Blues and Washington Capitals? A couple of their key players are also missing from the top five of best-value contracts.

Here 'ya go:

Two of St. Louis' highest paid players are in the mix.
St. Louis Blues

PLAYER	GSVA/82	XWIN	DIFFERENCE	CAP HIT (M)	YEARS LEFT
Alex Pietrangelo	3.33	1.44	1.89	$6.50	0
Robert Thomas	1.77	-0.03	1.81	$0.89	1
Vince Dunn	1.43	-0.25	1.68	$0.72	0
Zach Sanford	1.56	0.16	1.4	$1.50	1
Jaden Schwartz	2.67	1.36	1.31	$5.35	1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Washington has one of its highest paid players on the list.
Washington Capitals

PLAYER	GSVA/82	XWIN	DIFFERENCE	CAP HIT (M)	YEARS LEFT
Jakub Vrana	1.9	0.73	1.17	$3.35	1
John Carlson	2.77	1.88	0.89	$8.00	6
Jonas Siegenthaler	0.59	-0.25	0.84	$0.71	0
Nic Dowd	0.47	-0.08	0.55	$0.75	2
Lars Eller	1.22	0.78	0.44	$3.50	3

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

It appears, a team needs at least one, preferably two of their top paid guys on this list. Having none is a recipe for close to DFL finishes.

 

[King'sPawn]

Here 'ya go:

Two of St. Louis' highest paid players are in the mix.
St. Louis Blues

PLAYER	GSVA/82	XWIN	DIFFERENCE	CAP HIT (M)	YEARS LEFT
Alex Pietrangelo	3.33	1.44	1.89	$6.50	0
Robert Thomas	1.77	-0.03	1.81	$0.89	1
Vince Dunn	1.43	-0.25	1.68	$0.72	0
Zach Sanford	1.56	0.16	1.4	$1.50	1
Jaden Schwartz	2.67	1.36	1.31	$5.35	1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Washington has one of its highest paid players on the list.
Washington Capitals

PLAYER	GSVA/82	XWIN	DIFFERENCE	CAP HIT (M)	YEARS LEFT
Jakub Vrana	1.9	0.73	1.17	$3.35	1
John Carlson	2.77	1.88	0.89	$8.00	6
Jonas Siegenthaler	0.59	-0.25	0.84	$0.71	0
Nic Dowd	0.47	-0.08	0.55	$0.75	2
Lars Eller	1.22	0.78	0.44	$3.50	3

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

It appears, a team needs at least one, preferably two of their top paid guys on this list. Having none is a recipe for close to DFL finishes.

Makes sense. I think the disconnect is overpaying good players versus overpaying bad players. Either way, you're better off if your best paid players step up.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

So this game took place six f***ing years ago, and instead of getting a replay of it today, FSW is televising bowling, drag racing, and an Angels game from 2002. Who the hell is in charge of their programming?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

 

[deeshamrock]

For all issues they mentioned and those they didn't, they need to cancel this year. And the idea of playing this season into fall, then starting a new season in Jan, that they want 82 games next year, also ridiculous.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

For all issues they mentioned and those they didn't, they need to cancel this year. And the idea of playing this season into fall, then starting a new season in Jan, that they want 82 games next year, also ridiculous.

It takes 6 months to finish out a regular season, 8 months with playoffs. If they start next season in January, the season won’t conclude until September. I can’t envision that happening.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Dying laughing at Brent Burns playing "defense" on kopitar and just feebly crashing into the boards

 

[Bandit]

So this game took place six f***ing years ago, and instead of getting a replay of it today, FSW is televising bowling, drag racing, and an Angels game from 2002. Who the hell is in charge of their programming?

Bob... what can you say?

 

[Bandit]

For all issues they mentioned and those they didn't, they need to cancel this year. And the idea of playing this season into fall, then starting a new season in Jan, that they want 82 games next year, also ridiculous.

Yeah they just need to give up on this year already. As much as it sucks, it at least means hopefully getting back to normal next year instead of turning that into a shit show too.