2019-20 Kings News/Rumors

[DoktorJeep]

Firing Stevens and trading Pearson for scraps were major panic moves.

 

[BigKing]

Firing Stevens and trading Pearson for scraps were major panic moves.

Just read through the thread on the Pearson trade: pretty good stuff in there. I even called Chicago leapfrogging us in the lottery, although that felt like a given if you've been a Kings fan since before the Cups.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I was going to mention what KF7824 did about how Pearson probably doesn't get moved if Kovalchuk wasn't signed but I thought I'd get enough heat for panning the Pearson trade.

Pretty sure I'm on the record saying he sold low and that isn't the best thing to do. We didn't need hindsight at the time to know he was selling Pearson at his absolute lowest. We all seemed happy to be away from the contract after he bombed in Pittsburgh but then he finished the season well in Vancouver and has continued to pretty much be the player he always has been.

Will we be regretting it for years to come? Probably not; however, Pearson as a trade chip on a rebuilding team is more valuable than Pearson as a trade chip to accommodate a shake up when there was nothing to shake up to begin with.

Blake isn't damned if he does, damned if he doesn't: he's just judged on the outcomes. The outcome is fluid with Pearson and has tipped out of Blake's favor now. It was a desperation move: sometimes they work (Hiring Sutter) and sometimes they don't (Parrish/Lucic/Hagelin). At least Grebs and Tambellini busted in the Parrish trade but you get the idea when I use it as an example of a desperation move.

The entire first page of that trade thread is filled with stuff like "thank goodness we don't have to see that 70s line anymore" and "we needed to remove his contract" and several variations of "he's a bum." We had to endure people bitching about him the rest of the year when he sucked with Pittsburgh too and almost no one wanted to acknowledge he was putting it back together with Van so seeing anyone wistfully wondering what could have been at this point is a little insincere to put it nicely.

I think it's shortsighted to judge this one on how Tanner Pearson is playing two teams later given the purpose was people begging for a shakeup. Calling it a panic move in light of that is proof Blake can do no right by some of you. We knew it was low value and we were pretty boned at the time--Blake holds on to everyone and does nothing and people complain, so...think of the guys that are still here that people can't wait to jettison and realize there's no guarantee Pearson is putting up this pace in LA.

Also we got the pick that became Parik and a pick next year for Hagelin so we still got 'futures' for Pearson anyway. If Pearson were here, people would be complaining that he was on the roster holding up a youth spot like Toffoli.

 

[Sleeping Dog]

Firing Stevens and trading Pearson for scraps were major panic moves.

And it got us Turcotte and trades got us Bjornfot, Fagemo and Parik. I’m ok with losing Pearson. More room for our young players to play and get ready for our next run for the Cup. Liked Pears, but we needed to inject new players into lineup. Wish him well in VAN.

 

[BigKing]

The entire first page of that trade thread is filled with stuff like "thank goodness we don't have to see that 70s line anymore" and "we needed to remove his contract" and several variations of "he's a bum." We had to endure people *****ing about him the rest of the year when he sucked with Pittsburgh too and almost no one wanted to acknowledge he was putting it back together with Van so seeing anyone wistfully wondering what could have been at this point is a little insincere to put it nicely.

I think it's shortsighted to judge this one on how Tanner Pearson is playing two teams later given the purpose was people begging for a shakeup. Calling it a panic move in light of that is proof Blake can do no right by some of you. We knew it was low value and we were pretty boned at the time--Blake holds on to everyone and does nothing and people complain, so...think of the guys that are still here that people can't wait to jettison and realize there's no guarantee Pearson is putting up this pace in LA.

Also we got the pick that became Parik and a pick next year for Hagelin so we still got 'futures' for Pearson anyway. If Pearson were here, people would be complaining that he was on the roster holding up a youth spot like Toffoli.

It was a pretty fun read though.

As for holding, I've been all about holding Toffoli until this TDL since I'd rather see if he can build value and he's easier to move as an impending UFA. We can talk about a "Blake Can Do Nothing Right Club" which most people would put me in--even though I frequently give him credit for things and still give him plenty of rope--but there is also a "Dump This Guy Immediately And Put A Rookie In Club" whose members were big on moving Pearson and are also the ones ready to move basically anyone--especially Toffoli--that is "blocking" a prospect when nobody is actually being blocked since Blake is on the long play at the moment.

Reading that thread, you will see several posters that weren't ready to believe the team was as bad as they were and thought it was a hockey move. Excited for Hagelin. Not ready to give up on the season. Just like you can't judge a draft right after it happens, we are a year removed from that trade and most everyone in that thread that thought this team could still compete realizes they can't. No need for a shakeup: it needed a tear-down. It's just a fun read. Hell, I'm not as pissy about Blake as I was in that thread since he actually started the rebuild since then but it was a good time reading how pissed off I was.

But kudos to you though for not shitting on Pearson. It is telling that the thread in question was only revived once he started sucking on Pittsburgh but has laid dormant ever since. Not that anyone is clamoring for him but if we could do it over in a vacuum, I'd have preferred holding on to him to maximize value. Even ultra-positive Rosen trashed the asset management at the time of the trade. I don't think it is revisionist history to say it was poor asset management which was a large part of my argument at the time.

As for the bolded, I don't want my GM making decisions because the Kings contingent on HF Boards wants to trade everyone, know what I mean?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It was a pretty fun read though.

As for holding, I've been all about holding Toffoli until this TDL since I'd rather see if he can build value and he's easier to move as an impending UFA. We can talk about a "Blake Can Do Nothing Right Club" which most people would put me in--even though I frequently give him credit for things and still give him plenty of rope--but there is also a "Dump This Guy Immediately And Put A Rookie In Club" whose members were big on moving Pearson and are also the ones ready to move basically anyone--especially Toffoli--that is "blocking" a prospect when nobody is actually being blocked since Blake is on the long play at the moment.

Reading that thread, you will see several posters that weren't ready to believe the team was as bad as they were and thought it was a hockey move. Excited for Hagelin. Not ready to give up on the season. Just like you can't judge a draft right after it happens, we are a year removed from that trade and most everyone in that thread that thought this team could still compete realizes they can't. No need for a shakeup: it needed a tear-down. It's just a fun read. Hell, I'm not as pissy about Blake as I was in that thread since he actually started the rebuild since then but it was a good time reading how pissed off I was.

But kudos to you though for not ****ting on Pearson. It is telling that the thread in question was only revived once he started sucking on Pittsburgh but has laid dormant ever since. Not that anyone is clamoring for him but if we could do it over in a vacuum, I'd have preferred holding on to him to maximize value. Even ultra-positive Rosen trashed the asset management at the time of the trade. I don't think it is revisionist history to say it was poor asset management which was a large part of my argument at the time.

As for the bolded, I don't want my GM making decisions because the Kings contingent on HF Boards wants to trade everyone, know what I mean?

Oh god, of course not--my point is just that many have publicly made their thoughts and philosophies known and no matter whether Blake goes for or against that he receives criticism. Not that he should be acting based on me or anyone else by any means

I think even most of that thread acknowledged it was a 'sell low' move but someone had to go, no? And to get a 3rd and 6th out of it considering the team and situation wasn't godawful.

I feel like I mostly agree with you on this I'm just not sure I like punishing Blake for a player getting back to his regular self after the fact instead of completely bombing out of the league. He wasn't given much of anything to work with and had to start moving pieces...Pearson and Muzzin for Parik, Bjornfot, Grundstrom, Durzi, and a 6th given the shitshow season we had seems decent.

 

[Jericho111091]

Glad the Son of Pear is doing well, just wish it wasn't with a divisional rival.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

I don't care how Pearson is producing, he and the Kings needed to part ways. Same for Toffoli if he goes on to score 30 goals with his next team. Doesn't matter, because he wasn't going to do it here.

 

[Butch 19]

And it got us Turcotte and trades got us Bjornfot, Fagemo and Parik. I’m ok with losing Pearson. More room for our young players to play and get ready for our next run for the Cup. Liked Pears, but we needed to inject new players into lineup. Wish him well in VAN.

Losing the lottery (again) got us Turcotte.

In an average world, we would have picked #1 or 2.

 

[KingsHockey24]

What's everyone's feelings on Kovy?

Personally I'll be rooting for him to play well in Montreal. I felt he never really got a great opportunity here.

He played probably what, 10 games with Kopi? And was mostly stuck on the 2nd PP unit that would go 30-35 seconds out there.

It's unfortunate it didn't work out for him here; one of my all-time favs.

 

[kingsholygrail]

What's everyone's feelings on Kovy?

Personally I'll be rooting for him to play well in Montreal. I felt he never really got a great opportunity here.

He played probably what, 10 games with Kopi? And was mostly stuck on the 2nd PP unit that would go 30-35 seconds out there.

It's unfortunate it didn't work out for him here; one of my all-time favs.

If you're a big fan, you get to add a Habs jersey to your Kovy collection now joining the Thrashers, Devils, and Kings. Beyond that, not much of an opinion. His better days are long behind him and beating him in the Stanley Cup(injury or no) was his swan song. It's kinda like Iginla, if Iginla didn't have such an infectious positive attitude on the team. Stopped in on the Kings to show us all he was great once, then shuffled off quietly without much of an impact. Just makes those Kings roster quizes even harder.

 

[TK 421]

Any new rumors regarding Toffoli and teams interested in him? Have to think he'd be drawing some interest from multiple teams.

 

[KINGS17]

It was a pretty fun read though.

As for holding, I've been all about holding Toffoli until this TDL since I'd rather see if he can build value and he's easier to move as an impending UFA. We can talk about a "Blake Can Do Nothing Right Club" which most people would put me in--even though I frequently give him credit for things and still give him plenty of rope--but there is also a "Dump This Guy Immediately And Put A Rookie In Club" whose members were big on moving Pearson and are also the ones ready to move basically anyone--especially Toffoli--that is "blocking" a prospect when nobody is actually being blocked since Blake is on the long play at the moment.

Reading that thread, you will see several posters that weren't ready to believe the team was as bad as they were and thought it was a hockey move. Excited for Hagelin. Not ready to give up on the season. Just like you can't judge a draft right after it happens, we are a year removed from that trade and most everyone in that thread that thought this team could still compete realizes they can't. No need for a shakeup: it needed a tear-down. It's just a fun read. Hell, I'm not as pissy about Blake as I was in that thread since he actually started the rebuild since then but it was a good time reading how pissed off I was.

But kudos to you though for not ****ting on Pearson. It is telling that the thread in question was only revived once he started sucking on Pittsburgh but has laid dormant ever since. Not that anyone is clamoring for him but if we could do it over in a vacuum, I'd have preferred holding on to him to maximize value. Even ultra-positive Rosen trashed the asset management at the time of the trade. I don't think it is revisionist history to say it was poor asset management which was a large part of my argument at the time.

As for the bolded, I don't want my GM making decisions because the Kings contingent on HF Boards wants to trade everyone, know what I mean?

For the Kings at this time prospects are like the 2nd string QB on a bad NFL team, they are every fan's favorite player.

I had high hopes for Pearson being better than Toffoli with the Kings. Pearson had one good season after he broke his leg, but somewhere lost his confidence. He can be a 35-40 point player in the NHL for another few seasons.

 

[The Tikkanen]

What's everyone's feelings on Kovy?

Personally I'll be rooting for him to play well in Montreal. I felt he never really got a great opportunity here.

He played probably what, 10 games with Kopi? And was mostly stuck on the 2nd PP unit that would go 30-35 seconds out there.

It's unfortunate it didn't work out for him here; one of my all-time favs.

I'm rooting for him but I was rooting for him here. I think most NHL players struggle to put up points consistently in the Kings offense. It still drives me crazy when they pull the goalie and continue to cycle the puck down low, backhand passes down the board to keep the puck low! The Kings use and have used an archaic system. This is truly the last kick at the can for Kovalchuk, maybe he will thrive in the high pressure environment in Montreal? They've got a lot of young, small, quick players there but after watching him here I have no idea if that's good or bad for him.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Again, look at the record with and without Kovalchuk. If he never signs, Stevens might still be the coach, Pearson might still be on the left side, and Muzzin might still be on the blueline. Kopitar still had his best personal season under Stevens. It was the kind of season everyone has ever wanted out of the guy. Had Pacioretty gone through, maybe he doesn't have 18 goals and 43 points in 44 games this year, but maybe he's the kind of winger that Kopitar can play with.

The plan wasn't to suck and rebuild. Even if the plan was to just trudge along as the 17-18 team for the next 5 years, it's still not tanking, and they didn't expect to be 29-46-6 with Kovalchuk. That would be the 206th worst record out of 213 since realignment.

It seemed like the wheels came off last year. I get why everything that was done last year was done. They should've made even more trades, even if they were in the playoff race, blah, blah, blah. It looked like the whole thing was a total mess. Now that we've had some time and some games, it seems like it might've been all Kovalchuk being in the lineup. Without him, they're not terrible. Not too good, still couldn't beat Vegas in a playoff series or anything, but not terrible. Without Muzzin, or even Martinez, they still don't give up a ton of goals on average. They still can't score with or without Pearson, but if he was still here, Kempe might still be a C, which would piss everyone off, but maybe Pearson would've still been Pearson. Toffoli, he sucks, but he's much closer in per game production to what seems to be his normal non-Lucic year than whatever was going on last year.

Always a long list of what if's though.

 

[KingsHockey24]

If you're a big fan, you get to add a Habs jersey to your Kovy collection now joining the Thrashers, Devils, and Kings. Beyond that, not much of an opinion. His better days are long behind him and beating him in the Stanley Cup(injury or no) was his swan song. It's kinda like Iginla, if Iginla didn't have such an infectious positive attitude on the team. Stopped in on the Kings to show us all he was great once, then shuffled off quietly without much of an impact. Just makes those Kings roster quizes even harder.

I've got a Devils Stanley Cup Finals Kovalchuk jersey and I'll probably pick up an LA Kovy.

I was blessed that my two favorite non LA Kings (Mike Richards and Ilya Kovalchuk) was able to play for us.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I've got a Devils Stanley Cup Finals Kovalchuk jersey and I'll probably pick up an LA Kovy.

I was blessed that my two favorite non LA Kings (Mike Richards and Ilya Kovalchuk) was able to play for us.

I honestly loved watching those thrashers teams for their high octane high end. Kovalchuk, Hossa, Savard, Heatley. So much fun. I'm with you on Kovy being a favorite.

And then Garnet Exelby killing everyone too.

 

[Sol]

If anything Pearson adapted his game. He used to be a very fast skater and he still tried to play like one even when he lost like 5 steps after his leg break.

This isn't about the Kings wrongfully dumping Pearson, this is about Pearson adapting.

What if discussions are pointless.

 

[lumbergh]

If anything Pearson adapted his game. He used to be a very fast skater and he still tried to play like one even when he lost like 5 steps after his leg break.

This isn't about the Kings wrongfully dumping Pearson, this is about Pearson adapting.

What if discussions are pointless.

What if that's what this entire board is for?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

If anything Pearson adapted his game. He used to be a very fast skater and he still tried to play like one even when he lost like 5 steps after his leg break.

This isn't about the Kings wrongfully dumping Pearson, this is about Pearson adapting.

What if discussions are pointless.

And sometimes, that's what it takes.

I appreciate Pearson and I believe he would have eventually figured it out here too, but like Toffoli, his age just doesn't really fit the group, and he's not 'good enough' to be a leadership guy, so why have him? But sometimes, you have a Brian Boyle situation, where a guy is just stuck in the mud and being traded is a career wake-up call. Not sure which one Pearson is, but I'd like to think it's the first, but he's a good dude with history here, so I'm rooting for him, even if it's elsewhere.

 

[SlimCharles]

You know what's funny, Pearson's revival can still benefit the Kings somewhat. Maybe some GM's will assume Toffoli needs that change and can get back to 25-30 goals with their team.

 

[Statto]

Firing Stevens and trading Pearson for scraps were major panic moves.

There was very little disagreement with either move at the and it was mostly supported.

The team had clearly quit on Stevens and he had to go. I liked Stevens but there was actually a case for him losing his job based on the attitude the team was showing in preseason alone. When that carried over into the regular season Blake had no choice and apart from Stevens being likeable there was little valid argument for keeping him.

Trading Pearson was also a widely supported move and even with hindsight was the correct decision. His performances even immediately after the trade showed he was a player at a crossroads in his career. Without being traded there is no way he rebounds like he has, and at the time Blake got fair value which reflects how bad his play had gotten (1a in 17gp). He wasn’t worth more than scraps. The timing of the move can be criticised but I presume it was in part done to try and shake things up. You can see the thinking in that although it’s a 50/50 ploy at best. It didn’t work but that’s a much deeper issue that we’ve debated to death. Remember Pearson’s play at the time was getting worse if anything, so it was hard to see his value going up.

Credit to Pearson for doing what he had to do so he could find his game again, but without us moving him it doesn’t happen.

 

[Statto]

Any rebuild is going to have moves and decisions that we can debate to death. There’s always going to be an argument for every single trade being done for a better return. So you can only assess Blakes tenure fairly by looking at the big picture and so far it looks ok. Nobody can claim success as we have no idea how any of the prospects will pan out. Equally nobody can fairly claim failure for exactly the same reason, not at this stage.

The only fair assessment can be based on if Blake has us in a position where the potential is there for the team to be a contender again in several years time. Plenty of GM’s fail to do even that. At the moment though, that potential exists and it’s not big leap to think we’ll be at the sharp end of things again in 4-5 years time. So right now Blake’s on track with regards to the big picture.

He will have plenty of opportunity screw things up and no matter how well he does, he will still make the odd mistake. However as long as the big picture continues to look good I’ll be happy.

 

[Statto]

What's everyone's feelings on Kovy?

Personally I'll be rooting for him to play well in Montreal. I felt he never really got a great opportunity here.

He played probably what, 10 games with Kopi? And was mostly stuck on the 2nd PP unit that would go 30-35 seconds out there.

It's unfortunate it didn't work out for him here; one of my all-time favs.

I hope he does well. He was a good pro here, but not a good fit so I have nothing against him.

 

[KingsFan7824]

The team had clearly quit on Stevens and he had to go. I liked Stevens but there was actually a case for him losing his job based on the attitude the team was showing in preseason alone. When that carried over into the regular season Blake had no choice and apart from Stevens being likeable there was little valid argument for keeping him.

Last night's lack of effort aside, I don't know if they quit on Stevens anymore. I can't get the with/without Kovalchuk record out of my head. They were 7-7-4 with WD as the coach when Kovalchuk didn't play. By no means is that a good record, but the players didn't respect WD, and were still .500 when one specific guy didn't play, in an otherwise atrocious season. Only 18 out of 82 games, but so far it's the same this year too.

We'll never know, but if Kovalchuk isn't signed, is Stevens still the coach today? The team wasn't all that different from the one that finished 17-18 on the day he was fired, other than 1 guy. While they got torched by Vegas, they didn't quit in the series. An argument can be made that the players lost all confidence in Stevens after that series, and couldn't play for him again. That's the one I've gone with when last year started. Since benching Kovalchuk this year, without Muzzin, with a handful of younger guys sprinkled around, they're 6th in GA again. They finished 1st overall 17-18. Again, maybe they respect TM, but if that's the case, where was that respect in the first 17 games of the year, when they were worse than they currently are, and were fighting for 31st in GA with Detroit? Maybe it took exactly that long for system to kick in, for the younger guys to feel more comfortable, etc. Maybe after 17 games, the players finally knew their season and reputation was on the line, so they started trying harder then.

I'm no longer sold that Stevens isn't still here today if Kovalchuk isn't brought in. Even if they just keep the same team that ended the 17-18 season.

125 games since Oct 18-19:

29-46-6 with Kovalchuk (65 points per 82 games)
193 GF (2.38)
271 GA (3.35)

19-18-7 without Kovalchuk (84 points per 82 games)
116 GF (2.64)
123 GA (2.80)

Smaller sample size without him. Get an even better picture when this season is over. Maybe things get closer.