GDT: 2019-20 GM#50 LA Kings vs Philadelphia Flyers @4:00pm 1/18/20

[HookKing]

I was asking what your "LOL" meant.

Anyways, I think we got lost. My gripe with Forbort is his lack of puck moving ability combined with him being deployed on the top pairing. I believe it affects the teams ability to produce offensively and the number back that notion up. I think he is a decent defensive defenseman with a long reach that can provide value on the bottom pair and playing PK minutes. He makes noticeable errors in his current deployment that cause people, including myself, to make comments in the gameday threads.

I don't disagree that puck-moving has been his weakness. That said, the worst advice he ever got was "just get the puck to Drew". So far this year, his puck-moving is just fine.

 

[kingsholygrail]

It's a good thing I was in Santa Monica getting wasted instead of watching this game.

 

[bob77]

That is the teams shooting percentage when he is on the ice, not his personal shooting percentage. That number being so low is a concern because he plays with players who are expected to produce and he is dragging them down.

So what you are saying is the reason our F in general are so bad is because of a Forbort? Trade him to a Toronto and a guy like Matthews will just be glad he has a D that can play, well, some D a little bit.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

I don’t see any sort of direction or plan for this franchise. Just collect prospects and draft picks? Great then what? Far as I can tell the Kings don’t know what to do with talent.

They don’t know what to do, and we can add Tmac to the list of coaches that sound clueless and are irrelevant to the players.

 

[Butch 19]

I don’t see any sort of direction or plan for this franchise. Just collect prospects and draft picks? Great then what? Far as I can tell the Kings don’t know what to do with talent.

They don’t know what to do, and we can add Tmac to the list of coaches that sound clueless and are irrelevant to the players.

Someone needs to learn how to score goals.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Q&A translation from post game interview: (this was actually a real topic, post game - Luff getting 3 shots. lol )

McLellan, on Matt Luff registering three shots in returning to the lineup. 'McLellan' are his real responses and I translated them.

McLellan: Yeah, not an easy task for him, being out for a little while, but to go back in, his job is to stay in now.
Translation: Yeah, it’s not easy for Matt, as he’s overwhelmed at this level. Sitting out until others failed too and then we can try him again. It’s his job to not fail again and stay in
McLellan: And it’s not to go in and out all the time. Keep some of these guys that didn’t play tonight out of the lineup. That’s how it’s going to be moving forward, and compete for your position.
Translation: Most of these young players on our team are failures and we keep rotating them, to see if one steps up, excels and takes a position.
McLellan: As far as Luffer goes, he does have his shot, and I’ve heard about his shot, and he got a couple of them off tonight. Some of those shots are going to have to in at some point, as well.
Translation: Luff can shoot the puck at an NHL level...but cannot score a goal at this level. He did have 3 shots, which is sad that this is a talking point here.

 

[KINGS17]

This team just sucks and it isn't going to get better until it has some new leadership in the room.

 

[verbalkint47]

I don’t see any sort of direction or plan for this franchise. Just collect prospects and draft picks? Great then what? Far as I can tell the Kings don’t know what to do with talent.

They don’t know what to do, and we can add Tmac to the list of coaches that sound clueless and are irrelevant to the players.

This is a fair point that has been brought up. Going off his drafts, Blake is targetting faster, more skilled players. Most are average sized or on the small side.

Looking at our potential future center depth however:
Villardi - 70+ point top line center
Turcotte - Bergeron/Richard's lite
Kopitar - at 35, a higher scoring Handzus

That looks like Lombardi's vision of center depth, not sure how it works in an up tempo, offensive system.

Not saying it couldn't work, but it will be interesting to see how Blake puts this roster together after moving out all the deadwood.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don’t see any sort of direction or plan for this franchise. Just collect prospects and draft picks? Great then what? Far as I can tell the Kings don’t know what to do with talent.

They don’t know what to do, and we can add Tmac to the list of coaches that sound clueless and are irrelevant to the players.

Usually I fight this a bit but lately, I've been thinking a lot. There's a lot to be critical of in this org at the moment, I thought the 10-20 point tax of players coming/going would have softened with Sutter leaving but apparently not.

We churn out "just an NHLer" players at a greater rate than any franchise. That's a tribute to drafting (especially in times of success/purged assets) and development to some degree. However--I question the ability of the guys who are the definition of "just an NHLer" in Craig Johnson, and guys who were good NHLers but you wouldn't consider "high skill" in Stoll, Murray, and Odie--I don't think they have a clue what to do with guys like JAD, Vilardi, Clague. They can teach them two-way play and defense so they're good next level players--who do we have that can take them to the next level? It's arguable the same fate befell guys like Toffoli, Kempe, even Kopitar and Doughty to a degree. They got Kopitar and Doughty to be the best two-way players in the world and play 'winning hockey' but it's arguable they never approached their offensive potential (Kopitar did for one season imo). Not that the last part is truly a complaint, but what happens if we land Lafreniere? I don't care to turn him or Kaliyev into a Selke winner, I want this guy scoring a f***load of points. We don't need 4 third lines.

I've always had questions about our medical staff, that's nothing new. Strength and conditioning, too. This team has looked tired like no one else on the back end of a back-to-back from 2010 on, doesn't matter the coach or style. But it's been even worse since our other dude left after the 2nd Cup.

There's no outright vision. I agree with that. And I'm not sure what the hell style we're playing anymore, frankly. We were a high octane aggressive loose team at the beginning of the year, now we're a tight passive defensive team that can't defend, score, or possess the puck? What are we doing here? I think the whole staff needs a makeover again to align a vision with drafting and development because if we're going to play 1-1-3 counterpunch hockey we need guys that can actually score on their few chances. And I'm not sure I want to watch that garbage anyway.

I'm not trying to overreact to a roadie vs. some great teams in the midst of a lost season when half the team was clearly sick as shit anyway, but those questions have been bugging me for a bit now, because for the first time in a long time, I'm not sure 'whats next?'

From the outside looking in,
The good--goalie coaching, 'average' player development, drafting
The bad--skill player development, gap in culture, minor league team getting obliterated nightly, lack of vision, Luc being involved in anything but feel-good community shit, Luc's colorblindness, our medical staff full of quacks, our strength and conditioning staff
The undecided--TMac, but this could be a problem of my other current undecided, Blake. If I don't hear by this offseason what the purpose/vision is at this point, I'll be firmly on the "Yeah, this guy isn't doing anything but taking the central scouting bureau guide and picking the highest available dude with picks he's acquiring by sucking and tearing the roster apart."

 

[DoktorJeep]

Thank you, since the removal of the AHL team from the east coast to Ontario, we’ve seen the organization become staffed by players who won nothing while they were here and have no resume to speak of outside of being friends of BLuc.

All the players and management living in the South Bay bubble is turning into a negative instead of an advantage. Two of our amateur scouts are Matt Greene and Kopitars dad. You have to wonder who even gets interviewed for these jobs?

 

[crassbonanza]

So what you are saying is the reason our F in general are so bad is because of a Forbort? Trade him to a Toronto and a guy like Matthews will just be glad he has a D that can play, well, some D a little bit.

Among all regular defensemen, the Kings constantly have the lowest shooting percentage when he is on the ice. I do imagine some of that is due to him.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

This team just sucks and it isn't going to get better until it has some new leadership in the room.

This is true. Kopitar is never going to step up and push others, or inspire others to propel. Brown may have been quiet too, but once Richards, Williams, Greene and Mitchell were in the room,
that was a core of leaders. I don't see them being able to sign / acquire 4+ players like that anytime soon, to establish that....and would be hard to do that and have others basically
take over the room....with Brown, it may have been more like he was part of the group and the culture became a den of leaders...

I read Gretzky's book way back in the day and recall how all the young players on Edmonton grew together and when they finally made it to the finals and lost to the Isles...they learned
how to win...but Wayne talked about how they saw the Isles have something special and how they sacrificed and were all bruised and playing through injuries..the character and toughness
it took to win. After that, the Oilers took it to the next level and Messier became the leader. I really think what will need to take place here, is all of these young players the Kings have drafted that have character and leadership abilities, will have to emerge and
become the leaders. Not easy. But possible. It can only really happen, as they take over the play and performance on the ice.

Vilardi has some character and toughness to come through what he has....and has high expectations. Turcotte is driven and hard on himself. He's already cementing relationships with
Bjornfot and Kaliyev. Mikey Anderson is a leader. So is JAD, Akil Thomas, Petersen, Dudas and others.

It is what it is and a process. Need a culture of leaders and hungry players that will work and sacrifice. This will not happen in the current room with Kopi and Doughty, who do not have the DNA
that Greene, Mitchell, Richards and Williams had. Does not make them incapable players to play on a Cup winning team? No, they are highly capable..but they will not be leaders at this point to take them there.
Not enough talent here anyway, to even make the playoffs! YET.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Hope the boys have fun in Cabo because there is still a good chance for a decent number of bodies to get shipped out by the TDL. Todd is doing a good job at acting pissed off about the crappy team play. But he’s doing his part shoving Forbort and Martinez out there for around 20 minutes a game to showcase them.

Maybe it’s the 73 degree weather baking my brain, but if we can get two solid bottom six type prospects and 2 third round picks out of trading Forbort and Martinez, I’d be ecstatic.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Hope the boys have fun in Cabo because there is still a good chance for a decent number of bodies to get shipped out by the TDL. Todd is doing a good job at acting pissed off about the crappy team play. But he’s doing his part shoving Forbort and Martinez out there for around 20 minutes a game to showcase them.

Maybe it’s the 73 degree weather baking my brain, but if we can get two solid bottom six type prospects and 2 third round picks out of trading Forbort and Martinez, I’d be ecstatic.

I agree....I actually believe a GREAT THING would be to shake this up, BIGTIME...and deal a Doughty or Quick. This team needs a big dose of reality right now.
Maybe Drew could be talked into waiving NMC to go to Toronto or somewhere. Get Sandin, Kapenen , Kerfoot, and #1 2020 and #1 2021.
(would take at least 10 mil cap coming back. Kerfoot does not excite me, but need salary coming back)

Instead of arguing if this is even possible or even good...the point is, it's time to do something MORE than deal Martinez, Hutton or even Toffoli.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The team really has grown stale with the holdovers from the past playing like they don’t give a crap. Tom Brady, they are not. No wonder Kovalchuk couldn’t adapt here, he plays with too much passion. Look at how a 34-year-old Ovechkin continues to perform at a high level. Then you look at the emotionless Kings who look disinterested most nights.

I’m indifferent with what they do with the relics of the past. They provided us with memories we’ll never forget, but it’s time to move on from some of these sand baggers who are dragging the team down.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

The team really has grown stale with the holdovers from the past playing like they don’t give a crap. Tom Brady, they are not. No wonder Kovalchuk couldn’t adapt here, he plays with too much passion. Look at how a 34-year-old Ovechkin continues to perform at a high level. Then you look at the emotionless Kings who look disinterested most nights.

I’m indifferent with what they do with the relics of the past. They provided us with memories we’ll never forget, but it’s time to move on from some of these sand baggers who are dragging the team down.

The team was playing better and with more passion when Brown, Lewis, and Forbort were out injured or sick. Let the youth play.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I agree....I actually believe a GREAT THING would be to shake this up, BIGTIME...and deal a Doughty or Quick. This team needs a big dose of reality right now.
Maybe Drew could be talked into waiving NMC to go to Toronto or somewhere. Get Sandin, Kapenen , Kerfoot, and #1 2020 and #1 2021.
(would take at least 10 mil cap coming back. Kerfoot does not excite me, but need salary coming back)

Instead of arguing if this is even possible or even good...the point is, it's time to do something MORE than deal Martinez, Hutton or even Toffoli.

Doughty's not even in the discussion as a top defender this season. What makes you think Toronto would do this? Because he's a homeboy?

 

[DoktorJeep]

I agree....I actually believe a GREAT THING would be to shake this up, BIGTIME...and deal a Doughty or Quick. This team needs a big dose of reality right now.
Maybe Drew could be talked into waiving NMC to go to Toronto or somewhere. Get Sandin, Kapenen , Kerfoot, and #1 2020 and #1 2021.
(would take at least 10 mil cap coming back. Kerfoot does not excite me, but need salary coming back)

Instead of arguing if this is even possible or even good...the point is, it's time to do something MORE than deal Martinez, Hutton or even Toffoli.

If sending a serious message is on management’s radar then the only feasible option may be Dustin Brown. He only has a 7 team no trade list, and signed for 2 more seasons after this one. His cap hit is $5.8m each year, but next season he is paid only $4m in salary.

It would be tough given his history, but they’ve already put Kopitar and Doughty on the untouchables list, so you’d have to listen to offers. And I think Brown has some value given his solid recent performance. I bet he’d be happier with a team looking to make a playoff run versus playing out the string as Jeff Carters line mate.

I could see teams like Pittsburgh or Toronto wanting a guy like Brown. He can still keep up and likes to play an offensive game, but still may have a bit to give when it comes to being a pest.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Usually I fight this a bit but lately, I've been thinking a lot. There's a lot to be critical of in this org at the moment, I thought the 10-20 point tax of players coming/going would have softened with Sutter leaving but apparently not.

We churn out "just an NHLer" players at a greater rate than any franchise. That's a tribute to drafting (especially in times of success/purged assets) and development to some degree. However--I question the ability of the guys who are the definition of "just an NHLer" in Craig Johnson, and guys who were good NHLers but you wouldn't consider "high skill" in Stoll, Murray, and Odie--I don't think they have a clue what to do with guys like JAD, Vilardi, Clague. They can teach them two-way play and defense so they're good next level players--who do we have that can take them to the next level? It's arguable the same fate befell guys like Toffoli, Kempe, even Kopitar and Doughty to a degree. They got Kopitar and Doughty to be the best two-way players in the world and play 'winning hockey' but it's arguable they never approached their offensive potential (Kopitar did for one season imo). Not that the last part is truly a complaint, but what happens if we land Lafreniere? I don't care to turn him or Kaliyev into a Selke winner, I want this guy scoring a ****load of points. We don't need 4 third lines.

I've always had questions about our medical staff, that's nothing new. Strength and conditioning, too. This team has looked tired like no one else on the back end of a back-to-back from 2010 on, doesn't matter the coach or style. But it's been even worse since our other dude left after the 2nd Cup.

There's no outright vision. I agree with that. And I'm not sure what the hell style we're playing anymore, frankly. We were a high octane aggressive loose team at the beginning of the year, now we're a tight passive defensive team that can't defend, score, or possess the puck? What are we doing here? I think the whole staff needs a makeover again to align a vision with drafting and development because if we're going to play 1-1-3 counterpunch hockey we need guys that can actually score on their few chances. And I'm not sure I want to watch that garbage anyway.

I'm not trying to overreact to a roadie vs. some great teams in the midst of a lost season when half the team was clearly sick as **** anyway, but those questions have been bugging me for a bit now, because for the first time in a long time, I'm not sure 'whats next?'

From the outside looking in,
The good--goalie coaching, 'average' player development, drafting
The bad--skill player development, gap in culture, minor league team getting obliterated nightly, lack of vision, Luc being involved in anything but feel-good community ****, Luc's colorblindness, our medical staff full of quacks, our strength and conditioning staff
The undecided--TMac, but this could be a problem of my other current undecided, Blake. If I don't hear by this offseason what the purpose/vision is at this point, I'll be firmly on the "Yeah, this guy isn't doing anything but taking the central scouting bureau guide and picking the highest available dude with picks he's acquiring by sucking and tearing the roster apart."

I don’t think one could articulate the issue any better than your post.

I’d also blame AEG for replacing DL with amateurs and allowing this culture rot to fester. Check out the Management and player development staff, it is full of ex-kings from a not so good era.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Thank you, since the removal of the AHL team from the east coast to Ontario, we’ve seen the organization become staffed by players who won nothing while they were here and have no resume to speak of outside of being friends of BLuc.

All the players and management living in the South Bay bubble is turning into a negative instead of an advantage. Two of our amateur scouts are Matt Greene and Kopitars dad. You have to wonder who even gets interviewed for these jobs?

Please tell me your joking?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don’t think one could articulate the issue any better than your post.

I’d also blame AEG for replacing DL with amateurs and allowing this culture rot to fester. Check out the Management and player development staff, it is full of ex-kings from a not so good era.

Are you unaware of who brought on the culture rot you speak of? It’s the man you still pine for. Another relic of the past some can’t let go of.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Please tell me your joking?

Looks like they are pro scouts, but it still reeks of nepotism at best or at worst, the inmates are running the asylum.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Are you unaware of who brought on the culture rot you speak of? It’s the man you still pine for. Another relic of the past some can’t let go of.

The man you speak of changed the Kings culture and it was only undone by the players he believed in because they wanted a softer playing style.

DL wasn’t going to fire Sutter and AEG sides with the players and elevates amateurs to run the franchise back into the ditch where it’ll remain for the foreseeable future.

 

[KINGS17]

This is true. Kopitar is never going to step up and push others, or inspire others to propel. Brown may have been quiet too, but once Richards, Williams, Greene and Mitchell were in the room,
that was a core of leaders. I don't see them being able to sign / acquire 4+ players like that anytime soon, to establish that....and would be hard to do that and have others basically
take over the room....with Brown, it may have been more like he was part of the group and the culture became a den of leaders...

I read Gretzky's book way back in the day and recall how all the young players on Edmonton grew together and when they finally made it to the finals and lost to the Isles...they learned
how to win...but Wayne talked about how they saw the Isles have something special and how they sacrificed and were all bruised and playing through injuries..the character and toughness
it took to win. After that, the Oilers took it to the next level and Messier became the leader. I really think what will need to take place here, is all of these young players the Kings have drafted that have character and leadership abilities, will have to emerge and
become the leaders. Not easy. But possible. It can only really happen, as they take over the play and performance on the ice.

Vilardi has some character and toughness to come through what he has....and has high expectations. Turcotte is driven and hard on himself. He's already cementing relationships with
Bjornfot and Kaliyev. Mikey Anderson is a leader. So is JAD, Akil Thomas, Petersen, Dudas and others.

It is what it is and a process. Need a culture of leaders and hungry players that will work and sacrifice. This will not happen in the current room with Kopi and Doughty, who do not have the DNA
that Greene, Mitchell, Richards and Williams had. Does not make them incapable players to play on a Cup winning team? No, they are highly capable..but they will not be leaders at this point to take them there.
Not enough talent here anyway, to even make the playoffs! YET.

I had a feeling this is what was going to happen. There were plenty of signs. Every time Dean would make a comment about Doughty, Kopitar, and Brown taking it to the next level it didn't happen.

 

[KINGS17]

I agree....I actually believe a GREAT THING would be to shake this up, BIGTIME...and deal a Doughty or Quick. This team needs a big dose of reality right now.
Maybe Drew could be talked into waiving NMC to go to Toronto or somewhere. Get Sandin, Kapenen , Kerfoot, and #1 2020 and #1 2021.
(would take at least 10 mil cap coming back. Kerfoot does not excite me, but need salary coming back)

Instead of arguing if this is even possible or even good...the point is, it's time to do something MORE than deal Martinez, Hutton or even Toffoli.

It was time more than two years ago.