Speculation: 2019-20 Expected Blackhawks Roster Part 4 - To Eberle or Not to Eberle - that is the question..

[RememberTheRoar]

I don’t disagree with that. Which is also exactly why it’s not realistic. He’s not going to come here as a 3C, but I also don’t see Strome as a 3C.

Strome would play RW in that scenario, I’d think

Duchene would add speed, defensive responsibility, faceoff ability, and a veteran presence to that line. He could take a really dangerous second line to the next level.

Do you matchup on Toews/Kane, or do you matchup on DeBrincat-Duchene-Strome?

One is going to burn you.

 

[RayP]

Strome would play RW in that scenario, I’d think

Duchene would add speed, defensive responsibility, faceoff ability, and a veteran presence to that line. He could take a really dangerous second line to the next level.

Do you matchup on Toews/Kane, or do you matchup on DeBrincat-Duchene-Strome?

One is going to burn you.

Damn.... that sounds awesome.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Strome would play RW in that scenario, I’d think

Duchene would add speed, defensive responsibility, faceoff ability, and a veteran presence to that line. He could take a really dangerous second line to the next level.

Do you matchup on Toews/Kane, or do you matchup on DeBrincat-Duchene-Strome?

One is going to burn you.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Hahaha, I’m sorry

He’s at least still on the second line with DeBrincat in this scenario

 

[JaegerDice]

I feel like it's more likely they would roll their natural centers 1-through-3 and you'd get Toews-Duchene-Strome.

ie:

Saad-Toews
Duchene-Kane
Debrincat-Strome
?-Kampf

Or maybe

Toews-Kane
Saad-Duchene
Debrincat-Strome
?-Kampf


I have my doubts Duchene would sign here though.

He went through a rebuild in Colorado. He went through what was supposed to be a rebuild but turned into a tear-down in Ottawa. Is he patient enough to go through another rebuild (or at least retool), or does he just want to join a team ready to win now?

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I feel like it's more likely they would roll their natural centers 1-through-3 and you'd get Toews-Duchene-Strome.

ie:

Saad-Toews
Duchene-Kane
Debrincat-Strome
?-Kampf

Or maybe

Toews-Kane
Saad-Duchene
Debrincat-Strome
?-Kampf

Who do you play next to Saad-Toews there? Or do you not worry much about it and just be happy with 45-50 from Saad and 60ish from Toews while handling hard matchups?

 

[JaegerDice]

Who do you play next to Saad-Toews there? Or do you not worry much about it and just be happy with 45-50 from Saad and 60ish from Toews while handling hard matchups?

That's what I would do personally.

We can all cheer Toews 'career best' offensive output... the fact is, his previous high of 76 points had him at 12th in the league at the time. His new high of 81 points has him at 27th in the league. His actual impact on the game hasn't increased by way of his production, simply because the league as a whole is scoring more. He was actually more impactful scoring 66 points, dominating play and turning opposition top lines into mulch than he was scoring 81 points and basically trading chances every shift.

I'd tell Saad and Toews, 'your job is to keep the puck in the other guys end for the entire shift, wear them down, and win the goal differential battle. If that means you only score one goal, fine, just make sure the other guys don't score at all against you on most nights'. That's obviously easier said than done given the defense (and possibly goaltending behind them), but that's the mindset I'd want them in. Let the other lines handle the soft underbelly you provide. Just take the other teams best pieces off the board.

As far as who to play with them. That's tough. As far as FAs, it would depend on price and term, but I'd take a Zuccarello up there. Adds a scoring touch, but an underrated possession player as well. He's 31 though, so I wouldn't be comfortable giving him much term.

Edit: This is where I reiterate my sadness and frustration that didn't get a crack at Mark Stone. Cause he would literally be perfect.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

That's what I would do personally.

We can all cheer Toews 'career best' offensive output... the fact is, his previous high of 76 points had him at 12th in the league at the time. His new high of 81 points has him at 27th in the league. His actual impact on the game hasn't increased by way of his production, simply because the league as a whole is scoring more. He was actually more impactful scoring 66 points, dominating play and turning opposition top lines into mulch than he was scoring 81 points and basically trading chances every shift.

I'd tell Saad and Toews, 'your job is to keep the puck in the other guys end for the entire shift, wear them down, and win the goal differential battle. If that means you only score one goal, fine, just make sure the other guys don't score at all against you on most nights'. That's obviously easier said than done given the defense (and possibly goaltending behind them), but that's the mindset I'd want them in. Let the other lines handle the soft underbelly you provide. Just take the other teams best pieces off the board.

As far as who to play with them. That's tough. As far as FAs, it would depend on price and term, but I'd take a Zuccarello up there. Adds a scoring touch, but an underrated possession player as well. He's 31 though, so I wouldn't be comfortable giving him much term.

Edit: This is where I reiterate my sadness and frustration that didn't get a crack at Mark Stone. Cause he would literally be perfect.

Is there data to show that Toews was less effective/impactful in this type of straight scoring role as opposed to the shutdown role he has previously played?

Also, could DeBrincat be that guy who goes up with Toews and Saad as he is still young enough that you can develop his defensive willingness?

He already seems like he’s willing to go to dirty areas and work hard.

 

[JaegerDice]

Is there data to show that Toews was less effective/impactful in this type of straight scoring role as opposed to the shutdown role he has previously played?

Also, could DeBrincat be that guy who goes up with Toews and Saad as he is still young enough that you can develop his defensive willingness?

He already seems like he’s willing to go to dirty areas and work hard.

Well this season, despite being a 'career year' was his:

Worst year for CF%
3rd worst year for Rel.CF%

3rd worst year for GF%
4th worst year for Rel.GF%

Worst year for xGF%
2nd worst for Rel.xGF%

Some of that can be attributed to teammate quality, but a lot of it (particularly the relative numbers) simply comes down to the fact that he's trading chances versus dominating the puck. As far as whether the team is better off with him playing that way, that's a philosophical argument.

Personally speaking, I don't think Toews' offensive upside is high enough to warrant deploying him or playing him that way. Best case scenario, if you played him in the easiest matchups and the easiest zone starts, he's still never challenging for an art ross. Which is fine, that's not his skillset and point production is not the only way for a forward to have cumulative impact on the game (despite what the masses on the hfboards main board may tell you). Likewise, no matter how hard Kane tries, he's never going to be a Selke contender, even in his BEST defensive year.

I think you get the most impact out of Toews by leaning into his strengths, not trying to milk offense out of a guy who will probably top out around 80 points in a best-case scenario, especially when that scenario involves a high likelihood of being on the ice for 80 on-ice goals the otherway. Likewise, I don't think you get the most out of Kane by asking him to sacrifice offense in the name of defense, because his defensive impact will never account for the potential offense he could give you if you deployed him in an offense-first mindset.

 

[featherhawk]

Of coarse stone would have been nice cause he would replicate hossa so Saad-toews-stone would have been ideal. Alas that was not in the cards.

If Saad plays with toews they should be a possession line. If saad is the key cog on the third line which can score that means that we get a C through FA or trade, if not Saad won’t be able to carry the likes of anisimov and Kahun on a scoring third line unless a youngster surprises and can be that guy

So we either need a c to play with Kane or Saad

Saad toews ????
Kubalik FA Kane
Cat-strome????
Kahun Kampf ?????

Kubalik Toews Kane
Cat- strome?????
Saad FA ????
Kahun kampf ????

?????= kurashev, sikura, cagguila, hayden, perlini, highmore, entwhistle etc

And if Saad toews is a possession line you could likely move Kahun with them if wanted although I liked sikura with toews and he could add more offense than Kahun

 

[JLarucci23]

Duchence at 6.9??? Absof***inlutely please!!!

 

[Son of Petter]

Where is Kubalik going to slot in next year?

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

What about targeting Erik Haula?

1 yr left at 2.75M coming off knee injury. Started skating recently and should be ready to go for camp

Vegas is in cap crunch and he was shifted from his natural position (C) to RW to accommodate Stastny and with Stone , Gusev and other acquisitions he really is lost in depth for Vegas at this point

Could be good fit to center Saad on 3rd line and if it doesn't work out he only has a yr left on deal

 

[dk2k]

Where is Kubalik going to slot in next year?

He's probably not.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Where is Kubalik going to slot in next year?

His skillset fits that of a top 9 player. I could see him pretty much anywhere in the lineup and I guarantee he'll move around a bit until they figure out what sticks.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

What about targeting Erik Haula?

1 yr left at 2.75M coming off knee injury. Started skating recently and should be ready to go for camp

Vegas is in cap crunch and he was shifted from his natural position (C) to RW to accommodate Stastny and with Stone , Gusev and other acquisitions he really is lost in depth for Vegas at this point

Could be good fit to center Saad on 3rd line and if it doesn't work out he only has a yr left on deal

I thought about him as a potentially perfect 3C for this team as well. He’d add more speed and potentially more offense to that third line.

If you spread out the lineup, maybe he’s also a good center for Kane with Caggiula doing the dirty work on the LW.

While we're trying to poach guys from Vegas, what would it take to get Alex Tuch?

In Vegas he's now a third liner, in Chicago he'd play next to Toews, regardless of how you setup the lineup. I'd be willing to give up something significant for Tuch. 22 years old, huge body, fantastic contract, 60 point pace this year (almost all his points were 5v5), and a takeaway machine. He's like a young Mark Stone.

I'd put Tuch near the top of my wishlist, but it would obviously be very difficult to pry him away. I'd imagine the conversation for Vegas would need to start with Gustafsson and Chicago would need to keep adding.

 

[migi]

Kubalik was very good tonight against Russia. He has so much speed with the puck, elite, I mean elite shot and he plays with purpose. Very north-south type of player.

I'll slot him with Kane as of today.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Kubalik was very good tonight against Russia. He has so much speed with the puck, elite, I mean elite shot and he plays with purpose. Very north-south type of player.

I'll slot him with Kane as of today.

Kubalik-Toews-Kane, or do you mean separate from Toews?

 

[featherhawk]

Kubalik was very good tonight against Russia. He has so much speed with the puck, elite, I mean elite shot and he plays with purpose. Very north-south type of player.

I'll slot him with Kane as of today.

make no mistake about it Kubalik will be on the roster next year, I have had him pegged for Kanes Left winger for some time.

only question is who is Centering them....I don't want it to be toews as I want Toews to be a possession shut down line with Saad and ????

My ideal lineup is.

Saad-toews-?????
Kubalik-FA Center-Kane
Debrincat-Strome-?????
Kahun-Kampf-?????

We know Cagguilla will fill in one of the ?????? spots and I want kurashev to fill another but I don't know if he will be ready, other candidates include; hayden, perlini, sikura, highmore, perhaps another FA and don't get caught sleeping on Entwhistle, he could make this club.

 

[migi]

Kubalik-Toews-Kane, or do you mean separate from Toews?

Depends a lot if they go after some UFA winger. If they do, I’ll slot him next to Kane and the new winger next to Toews.

 

[clydesdale line]

Kubalik is going to surprise alot of people next year. Kid is the goods.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I know a lot of people are pretty against a DeBrincat-Strome-Kane line because of the defensive liability it looks to be, but how much different is it from Columbus' Panarin-PLC-Atkinson line?

Torts rode that line for much of the season and sheltered the absolute hell out of them, about an 85% offensive zone faceoff rate at 5v5.

When Torts needs to shuffle things around, he'll move Atkinson off that line.

I know some would like to see Colliton go back to using Toews' line as more of a matchup line against top competition. If that happens, wouldn't it be easier to shelter one line than have to shelter a Kane line AND a DeBrincat line?

Saad-Toews-Caggiula
DeBrincat-Strome-Kane
Kubalik-Anisimov-Kahun

 

[Kevin Musto]

I know a lot of people are pretty against a DeBrincat-Strome-Kane line because of the defensive liability it looks to be, but how much different is it from Columbus' Panarin-PLC-Atkinson line?

Torts rode that line for much of the season and sheltered the absolute hell out of them, about an 85% offensive zone faceoff rate at 5v5.

When Torts needs to shuffle things around, he'll move Atkinson off that line.

I know some would like to see Colliton go back to using Toews' line as more of a matchup line against top competition. If that happens, wouldn't it be easier to shelter one line than have to shelter a Kane line AND a DeBrincat line?

Saad-Toews-Caggiula
DeBrincat-Strome-Kane
Kubalik-Anisimov-Kahun

In that scenario I'd try Kubalik-Toews-Kahun. I like when Toews plays with skilled guys on his wings. Give Saad his own line on the 3rd. Ideally it's a shutdown bumslayer line.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

In that scenario I'd try Kubalik-Toews-Kahun. I like when Toews plays with skilled guys on his wings. Give Saad his own line on the 3rd. Ideally it's a shutdown bumslayer line.

I wouldn't mind that either.

What do you think of a DeBrincat-Strome-Kane line used the same way as the Panarin-PLD-Atkinson line?

 

[featherhawk]

I know a lot of people are pretty against a DeBrincat-Strome-Kane line because of the defensive liability it looks to be, but how much different is it from Columbus' Panarin-PLC-Atkinson line?

Torts rode that line for much of the season and sheltered the absolute hell out of them, about an 85% offensive zone faceoff rate at 5v5.

When Torts needs to shuffle things around, he'll move Atkinson off that line.

I know some would like to see Colliton go back to using Toews' line as more of a matchup line against top competition. If that happens, wouldn't it be easier to shelter one line than have to shelter a Kane line AND a DeBrincat line?

Saad-Toews-Caggiula
DeBrincat-Strome-Kane
Kubalik-Anisimov-Kahun

that 3rd line is terrible, not a fan of cat-strome-kane all on the same line.