2018 NHL Entry Draft Thread (Less then 24 Hours Edition)

[Favster]

Actually I've seen more players become competent skaters rather than players with bad shots ever get better shots.

I don't think that his shot is that bad but yes, it is possible. All I'm saying is anything can be improved if they put the work in so we shouldn't nitpick, that's all. Personally, I would much rather pick a player with elite skating and an average shot than an elite shot with average skating at 3 but hey, that's just my opinion.

 

[WinterLion]

When you pick at 3, you don't pick someone who you think has flaws that might hold them back if not fixed right. The rest of the draft is full of those guys.

 

[Habs Halifax]

When you pick at 3, you don't pick someone who you think has flaws that might hold them back if not fixed right. The rest of the draft is full of those guys.

Winning the draft lottery and the 3rd pick might hurt us vs the large % of us getting the 5th or 6th pick. We end up taking Zadina and he becomes a very good top 6 winger like Galchenyuk but we pass on Kotkaniemi who becomes a Kopitar type.

Lets say we ended up with the 5th or 6th pick... do we have any problem with taking Kotkaniemi then? I fear the hindsight expert evaluation on what we should of done in about 3 years from now

 

[WinterLion]

Winning the draft lottery and the 3rd pick might hurt us vs the large % of us getting the 5th or 6th pick. We end up taking Zadina and he becomes a very good top 6 winger like Galchenyuk but we pass on Kotkaniemi who becomes a Kopitar type.

Lets say we ended up with the 5th or 6th pick... do we have any problem with taking Kotkaniemi then? I fear the hindsight expert evaluation on what we should of done in about 3 years from now

Personally, I'm taking Kotkienemi at 3. I'm not worried about his skating and I think he has just as much upside as Zadina and maybe more because he is so young and seems to be just in the middle of a steep development curve.

I will trust Timmins though. There is a bunch of stuff we can't know as fans that he will have access to. For example, will he fill out or will he stay a bean pole? Is he a level headed hard working kid? Will his parents/agents support the type of development path that you think is best. Those questions are pretty important and we can't know that stuff with all these kids... but you better believe Timmins will have a much better idea.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Personally, I'm taking Kotkienemi at 3. I'm not worried about his skating and I think he has just as much upside as Zadina and maybe more because he is so young and seems to be just in the middle of a steep development curve.

I will trust Timmins though. There is a bunch of stuff we can't know as fans that he will have access to. For example, will he fill out or will he stay a bean pole? Is he a level headed hard working kid? Will his parents/agents support the type of development path that you think is best. Those questions are pretty important and we can't know that stuff with all these kids... but you better believe Timmins will have a much better idea.

Agreed. I trust Timmins as well. He has done well with our top 10 picks. But I tell yeah... it's a bold move taking Kotkaniemi with the 3rd pick! It will raise eyebrows for sure.

If I was able to pull it off... I much rather trade Patch for a top 15 pick and then draft Zadina. With the 15th pick, I take whoever is left from Kotkaniemi, Veleno, Hayton, or Kupari. Pretty sure one of them is available with the 15th pick. Zadina and one of those centers would be a good start to the draft.

Now, lets say we draft Kotkaniemi with the 3rd pick and we are still able to trade Patch for a top 15 pick. Who do we take then? I'm not too sure. Doubt a guy like Smith would slip to 15th. Any other LD available at that point?

 

[Mrb1p]

Agreed. I trust Timmins as well. He has done well with our top 10 picks. But I tell yeah... it's a bold move taking Kotkaniemi with the 3rd pick! It will raise eyebrows for sure.

If I was able to pull it off... I much rather trade Patch for a top 15 pick and then draft Zadina. With the 15th pick, I take whoever is left from Kotkaniemi, Veleno, Hayton, or Kupari. Pretty sure one of them is available with the 15th pick. Zadina and one of those centers would be a good start to the draft.

Now, lets say we draft Kotkaniemi with the 3rd pick and we are still able to trade Patch for a top 15 pick. Who do we take then? I'm not too sure. Doubt a guy like Smith would slip to 15th. Any other LD available at that point?

The problem is that Paciorett+Kotkaniemi is better than any combination of 3+15 and were not even sure they want Patches. Grab Kotkaniemi or Boqvist this year, go for another pick next year instead.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The problem is that Paciorett+Kotkaniemi is better than any combination of 3+15 and were not even sure they want Patches. Grab Kotkaniemi or Boqvist this year, go for another pick next year instead.

I rather take Dobson over Boqvist. And I'm not sure about Kotkaniemi.

Question to those who know both Lavoie (Mooseheads) and Kotkaniemi... Are the similar talent and have similar skating? Lavoie missed this next draft by 5 days ish. I actually like Lavoie more than Zadina so if Kotkaniemi is similar to Lavoie, I take him 3rd overall for sure

 

[NotProkofievian]

Personally, I'm taking Kotkienemi at 3. I'm not worried about his skating and I think he has just as much upside as Zadina and maybe more because he is so young and seems to be just in the middle of a steep development curve.

I will trust Timmins though. There is a bunch of stuff we can't know as fans that he will have access to. For example, will he fill out or will he stay a bean pole? Is he a level headed hard working kid? Will his parents/agents support the type of development path that you think is best. Those questions are pretty important and we can't know that stuff with all these kids... but you better believe Timmins will have a much better idea.

I'm not sure how much information the interviews actually give, since all of the top prospects (at least the north american ones) have been coached to interview well. However, if it came to the habs' attention that Kotkaniemi didn't have an honest view of his abilities, or that he wasn't actually using his off-season to improve his skating, then that would drastically affect my ranking of him.

About Hughes, I think @The Great Schlemko has it right: one-on-one defensively, Hughes is competent. It's just that sometimes he's not there to be competent defensively. Like, once a game at least.

 

[WinterLion]

Agreed. I trust Timmins as well. He has done well with our top 10 picks. But I tell yeah... it's a bold move taking Kotkaniemi with the 3rd pick! It will raise eyebrows for sure.

If I was able to pull it off... I much rather trade Patch for a top 15 pick and then draft Zadina. With the 15th pick, I take whoever is left from Kotkaniemi, Veleno, Hayton, or Kupari. Pretty sure one of them is available with the 15th pick. Zadina and one of those centers would be a good start to the draft.

Now, lets say we draft Kotkaniemi with the 3rd pick and we are still able to trade Patch for a top 15 pick. Who do we take then? I'm not too sure. Doubt a guy like Smith would slip to 15th. Any other LD available at that point?

I don't like Smith much. It's bold if you think Zadina is in another tier, but not if you don't.

Getting an extra pick would be great, but then you need to see who is there.

 

[The Great Weal]

I'm not sure how much information the interviews actually give, since all of the top prospects (at least the north american ones) have been coached to interview well. However, if it came to the habs' attention that Kotkaniemi didn't have an honest view of his abilities, or that he wasn't actually using his off-season to improve his skating, then that would drastically affect my ranking of him.

About Hughes, I think @The Great Schlemko has it right: one-on-one defensively, Hughes is competent. It's just that sometimes he's not there to be competent defensively. Like, once a game at least.

It happens more than once a game tbh. The reason why I'm so high on him is because I believe that he has improved dramatically since the beginning of the season. The question many have is whether or not he will still be effective if he does position himself better. For me, the answer is yes. However, it still doesn't guaranteed that he consistently and effectively makes this transition, especially in the NHL.

 

[WinterLion]

I'm not sure how much information the interviews actually give, since all of the top prospects (at least the north american ones) have been coached to interview well. However, if it came to the habs' attention that Kotkaniemi didn't have an honest view of his abilities, or that he wasn't actually using his off-season to improve his skating, then that would drastically affect my ranking of him.

About Hughes, I think @The Great Schlemko has it right: one-on-one defensively, Hughes is competent. It's just that sometimes he's not there to be competent defensively. Like, once a game at least.

I'm not talking about interviews. Timmins will do his homework. He'll have spoken to these kids and probably visited them at home. He'll know their medical history and family life and bloodlines... etc... Don't forget that Timmins & staff will have a much smaller list than all of us. They will have already focused in on guys are started getting to really know them a long time ago. That's why trading down is always a great option for fans, but teams are not as into because they will have guys they don't want even in the top 10.

 

[sandviper]

I rather take Dobson over Boqvist. And I'm not sure about Kotkaniemi.

Question to those who know both Lavoie (Mooseheads) and Kotkaniemi... Are the similar talent and have similar skating? Lavoie missed this next draft by 5 days ish. I actually like Lavoie more than Zadina so if Kotkaniemi is similar to Lavoie, I take him 3rd overall for sure

I am very high on Lavoie. Big kid with a scoring touch. Watch any Zadina highlights and Lavoie is right there. I think he’s actually a very good skater, with good speed also.

Obviously, at this time, Kotkaniemi is a little further developed despite Lavoie being a little older in his pre-Draft year. He has some work to do on his 200-foot game and I found he tends to make some poor decisions at times but believe this has more to do with his current development rather than ability. Also, Kotkaniemi plays in a men’s league, so his level of competition is higher.

I can’t really compare the skating as I never considered Kotkaniemi weak here... just maybe a little awkward. I don’t see skating as a difference maker between the two.

That said, if we’re set on a center, just take Kotkaniemi because I guarantee 100000% he’ll be there for us at #3 if we want him. Personally, I wouldn’t, but he’s a good prospect.

The unknown is where we’ll be next year, Far too early to predict, but I think Lavoie will be ranked similarly to Kotkaniemi next year. There are superior center, let alone forward, prospects at this time, but can change for sure. So, if center is something we want to focus on, we’d be better off doing that now rather than “hoping” we have a bottom-15 finish next year which I think we will anyways.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I am very high on Lavoie. Big kid with a scoring touch. Watch any Zadina highlights and Lavoie is right there. I think he’s actually a very good skater, with good speed also.

Obviously, at this time, Kotkaniemi is a little further developed despite Lavoie being a little older in his pre-Draft year. He has some work to do on his 200-foot game and I found he tends to make some poor decisions at times but believe this has more to do with his current development rather than ability. Also, Kotkaniemi plays in a men’s league, so his level of competition is higher.

I can’t really compare the skating as I never considered Kotkaniemi weak here... just maybe a little awkward. I don’t see skating as a difference maker between the two.

That said, if we’re set on a center, just take Kotkaniemi because I guarantee 100000% he’ll be there for us at #3 if we want him. Personally, I wouldn’t, but he’s a good prospect.

The unknown is where we’ll be next year, Far too early to predict, but I think Lavoie will be ranked similarly to Kotkaniemi next year. There are superior center, let alone forward, prospects at this time, but can change for sure. So, if center is something we want to focus on, we’d be better off doing that now rather than “hoping” we have a bottom-15 finish next year which I think we will anyways.

Big decision... If Lavoie was in this draft... who do you prefer. Lavoie or Kotkaniemi? Kotkaniemi is 3 months older

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't like Smith much. It's bold if you think Zadina is in another tier, but not if you don't.

Getting an extra pick would be great, but then you need to see who is there.

I think it's a bold move cause most rankings have Kotkaniemi 10th - 15th range. McKenzie's latest rankings have Kotkaniemi at 10th I believe. It's not quite the same as the Blue Jackets drafting PLD as he was a top 5 pick in most rankings.

 

[Frank JT]

Personally, I'm taking Kotkienemi at 3. I'm not worried about his skating and I think he has just as much upside as Zadina and maybe more because he is so young and seems to be just in the middle of a steep development curve.

I will trust Timmins though. There is a bunch of stuff we can't know as fans that he will have access to. For example, will he fill out or will he stay a bean pole? Is he a level headed hard working kid? Will his parents/agents support the type of development path that you think is best. Those questions are pretty important and we can't know that stuff with all these kids... but you better believe Timmins will have a much better idea.

I trust Timmins and his team. But I don't trust Bergevin. For me, that's the potential problem.

 

[WinterLion]

I think it's a bold move cause most rankings have Kotkaniemi 10th - 15th range. McKenzie's latest rankings have Kotkaniemi at 10th I believe. It's not quite the same as the Blue Jackets drafting PLD as he was a top 5 pick in most rankings.

It's bold because it would mean you would have to pass on a couple of guys that are really sure things...

Can't wait until the actual real list comes out on the 22nd!

 

[NotProkofievian]

I think it's a bold move cause most rankings have Kotkaniemi 10th - 15th range. McKenzie's latest rankings have Kotkaniemi at 10th I believe. It's not quite the same as the Blue Jackets drafting PLD as he was a top 5 pick in most rankings.

I'm not sure why it's so bold, just because it's unpopular. I mean, if you're right, you're right. Drafting a bust doesn't feel any better just because he was consensus ranked highly. Neither does passing on a guy who would solve the franchise defining issue of our team just because he's ranked a little lower.

I'm going to shit on several people's heads no matter what if Jesperi becomes a 1C lol.

 

[Habs Icing]

Whos the last player to improve his shot in the last century... Ill wait.

Pk comes to mind.

 

[MC94]

Winning the draft lottery and the 3rd pick might hurt us vs the large % of us getting the 5th or 6th pick. We end up taking Zadina and he becomes a very good top 6 winger like Galchenyuk but we pass on Kotkaniemi who becomes a Kopitar type.

Lets say we ended up with the 5th or 6th pick... do we have any problem with taking Kotkaniemi then? I fear the hindsight expert evaluation on what we should of done in about 3 years from now

I remember the 2012 draft reading people saying galchenyuk was the next kopitar the best player in the draft could go 22oa just pick bpa thats all you can do and hope for the best bpa is zadina get a center when we shit the bed next year also lol

 

[montreal]

That seems to be the problem with this draft, at 1 or 2 you know you are very likely getting a home run without having to work hard. But from 3 to 12 or so there's no telling who is going to get the better player. Whoever we pick, there's going to be so much heat/discussion/hate as there is every year outside of '12 but this year seems so much more up in the air, so many factors/variables to look at. For me as long as we don't pick Tkachuk at 3 I'll be happy.

 

[sandviper]

Big decision... If Lavoie was in this draft... who do you prefer. Lavoie or Kotkaniemi? Kotkaniemi is 3 months older

Tough one as right now, I think Kotkaniemi is the better player. However, Lavoie I think will be the better player. I think given his frame, when he fills out, I feel he will be a more effective player assuming his skills progress at a similar rate.

He's more raw to me that Kotkaniemi, thus more of a project though when I say project, I do not mean like McCarron. I just mean Kotkaniemi is further along. The age difference is only 3 months like you said, but Kotkaniemi has played in not just an adult league for a full year, but a harder league to score in.

Anyhow, there isn't a massive gulf between them and end of the day, Lavoie can't be drafted until next year. For all we know, he'll badly regress over next season, but I don't think he will. But to straight up answer the question, I'm leaning towards Lavoie.

 

[The Great Weal]

There is little to no difference between 3-8 for me. I would definitely trade down to 9 for the Rangers because I'm positive Tkachuk will go before that pick and one of those players will drop to us.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Tough one as right now, I think Kotkaniemi is the better player. However, Lavoie I think will be the better player. I think given his frame, when he fills out, I feel he will be a more effective player assuming his skills progress at a similar rate.

He's more raw to me that Kotkaniemi, thus more of a project though when I say project, I do not mean like McCarron. I just mean Kotkaniemi is further along. The age difference is only 3 months like you said, but Kotkaniemi has played in not just an adult league for a full year, but a harder league to score in.

Anyhow, there isn't a massive gulf between them and end of the day, Lavoie can't be drafted until next year. For all we know, he'll badly regress over next season, but I don't think he will. But to straight up answer the question, I'm leaning towards Lavoie.

I would pick Lavoie but only because I know a lot about him. But that's why I was asking how he compares to Kotkaniemi. If their potential is close, I draft Kotkaniemi without a doubt.

As far as Lovoie next year, I don't see him stalling in development as the Mooseheads will be surrounding him with a memorial cup team. He will have every opportunity to excel based on his talent and the talent he will be playing with. Very curious to see the moves they make this off season.

 

[jaffy27]

Personally, I'm taking Kotkienemi at 3. I'm not worried about his skating and I think he has just as much upside as Zadina and maybe more because he is so young and seems to be just in the middle of a steep development curve.

I will trust Timmins though. There is a bunch of stuff we can't know as fans that he will have access to. For example, will he fill out or will he stay a bean pole? Is he a level headed hard working kid? Will his parents/agents support the type of development path that you think is best. Those questions are pretty important and we can't know that stuff with all these kids... but you better believe Timmins will have a much better idea.

I still take Zadina at 3 and try to work out a deal with the Islanders for Pacioretty.

Aquiring Max would probably be a good incentive for Tavares to stick around, at least this is how I would sell it to the Islanders.

I'm aiming for both of their 1st round picks.......you may have to sweeten the pot a bit but with the 11th and 12th picks, one can do a major overhaul to the prospect pool.

So you pick Zadina with the 3rd overall

Trade Pacioretty and Ikonen for the 11th and 12th pick

Then trade the 11th pick and Chicago's 2nd to move up a few spots (Chicago).....and select Kotkamiemi (assuming he's there, if not, you still do it and select either Wahlstrom or Dobson)

With the 12th pick, You select Kravtsov

So far, you have yourself 3 solid prospects in Zadina, Kotkaniemi and Kravtsov.

You then trade your own second and the Leafs second to move back in the first and select a player you've been targeting.....Kaut/Alexeyev/McIsaac

Unlikely to happen but it's a plan of multiple plans I'd have in mind and try to execute.

Prospect haul...

Zadina
Kotkaniemi
Kravtsov
Kaut

Poelhing
Scherbak
Alain

That's a nice group of forward prospects to have.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I remember the 2012 draft reading people saying galchenyuk was the next kopitar the best player in the draft could go 22oa just pick bpa thats all you can do and hope for the best bpa is zadina get a center when we **** the bed next year also lol

I get heat for this but BPA is not clear with me. It's anybodies guess from picks 3-12 and anybody (even the good scouts) can be wrong. You can't predict the future development on these kids and their commitment level. We are talking about a steep learning curve for 17/18 year old kids. Some will disappoint no matter how high we are on him. At the time, did the Blue Jacket draft BPA with the 3rd pick in the 2016 draft? That is a debate and they went after position of need cause they felt the BPA was very questionable between the 3-10 range picks.

Even with the Habs scouting team... you are going to get different answers on who the BPA is at the 3rd pick. Maybe one of them ends up right.

I have not seen too much sample size with Kotkaniemi but if he is similar to Lavoie, I draft Kotkaniemi in a heart beat with the 3rd pick. We are not getting a impact center unless we draft one! There are options with our 2nd round picks but they are more top 2 center potential, not #1C