2018 NHL Entry Draft Thread (Less then 24 Hours Edition)

[Habs Halifax]

Q: is Kotkaniemi the real want and need for Montreal in this draft?

Lots of talk about him but doubt we take him at 3rd.

 

[WinterLion]

Rangers want Zadina more than Jesperi. It’s not unreasonable they make good trading partners. Jesperi will be there at 9.

I definitely WOULD NOT count on Kotkienemi being around at 9. It's possible, but also very possible he is gone.

 

[WinterLion]

Almost done with my last Habs mock of the year, haul so far:

(1)3: Filip Zadina
(2)35: Alexander Alexeyev
(2)38: Jonny Tychonick
(2)56: Jonathan Gruden
(2)59: Allan McShane
(3)66: Jan Jeník
(4)97: Filip Kral
(4)102: Danila Zhuravlyov
(4)120:
(5)128:

Nice. I really like McShane and Tychonick. I'm not sure who else was on board, but getting both those guys in the 2nd would be good value I think.

 

[Habs76]

Those kind of players like Veleno generally make good captains. Don't ooze talent but good offensively for 1.5 pts per game, good defensively, good on face-offs, can play on PK and PP. They usually get like that not on skill but passion

We have 0 evidence of Veleno being a good leader.

 

[le_sean]

I agree. There's still a real chance he doesn't cut it as a center in the NHL. Galchenyuk was seen as the best center in his draft year too and we know what happened there.

Regardless, id love to get Kotkaniemi. I think he's going to be a hell of a player.

I don’t think it’s fair to compare Kotkaniemi and Galchenyuk. I understand your point, but they are not comparable in two way play and puck protection. Plus we didn’t have the advantage of seeing Galchenyuk his draft year. Maybe under more scrutiny it would have been obvious he was not a long-term solution at centre. I think it’s obvious Kotkaniemi is.

 

[le_sean]

Those kind of players like Veleno generally make good captains. Don't ooze talent but good offensively for 1.5 pts per game, good defensively, good on face-offs, can play on PK and PP. They usually get like that not on skill but passion

Good on faceoffs? In 10 playoff games he was over 50% 3 times. His playoff totals were 42%, and in the last series against Victoriaville, when he needed to step up, he was 31.5%.

Have you seen him on the PP? He holds on to the puck and circles the offensive zone two times and makes simple passes. It’s like he still think he’s playing in midget.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Good on faceoffs? In 10 playoff games he was over 50% 3 times. His playoff totals were 42%, and in the last series against Victoriaville, when he needed to step up, he was 31.5%.

Have you seen him on the PP? He holds on to the puck and circles the offensive zone two times and makes simple passes. It’s like he still think he’s playing in midget.

He's the next Lars Eller only with better skating and less physical strength. Worse shot but a bit better playmaking.

 

[le_sean]

He's the next Lars Eller only with better skating and less physical strength. Worse shot but a bit better playmaking.

I say Andrew Cogliano. Fans will like him, he’ll have his uses, but he won’t merit his high selection and tops out as a 3rd liner that is a good PKer.

 

[Mrb1p]

I say Andrew Cogliano. Fans will like him, he’ll have his uses, but he won’t merit his high selection and tops out as a 3rd liner that is a good PKer.

Looking back at the 2007 draft, Eller ranks around exactly where he ranked in the draft, so I'm not sure about that. If you get a Eller around 15, you're most likely getting good value.

 

[HuGort]

That ma

Good on faceoffs? In 10 playoff games he was over 50% 3 times. His playoff totals were 42%, and in the last series against Victoriaville, when he needed to step up, he was 31.5%.

Have you seen him on the PP? He holds on to the puck and circles the offensive zone two times and makes simple passes. It’s like he still think he’s playing in midget.

That makes it sound like Veleno is totally do-not-draft. He scored at 1.5 pace after trade to D. Roughly the same rate as Zadina. Who is consider dynamic offensively. I realize Veleno is a playmaker not a goal scorer. But to rip him like that sounds not accurate.

 

[le_sean]

That ma

That makes it sound like Veleno is totally do-not-draft. He scored at 1.5 pace after trade to D. Roughly the same rate as Zadina. Who is consider dynamic offensively. I realize Veleno is a playmaker not a goal scorer. But to rip him like that sounds not accurate.

He’s an average player. That’s what scouting is. I don’t see a good offensive player for the NHL. He lacks any great ability other than his skating, which makes him sound like a 3rd liner.

Funny Zadina basically scored as many goals as a rookie in his first season in NA as Veleno did in three full Q seasons. They are not comparable.

 

[yianik]

Looking back at the 2007 draft, Eller ranks around exactly where he ranked in the draft, so I'm not sure about that. If you get a Eller around 15, you're most likely getting good value.

You don't pick a guy at 15 hoping or expecting him to be a 3rd liner. You want 2C upside at the least.

 

[Habs76]

You don't pick a guy at 15 hoping or expecting him to be a 3rd liner. You want 2C upside at the least.

Eller had 2C upside, he just didn't reach it. Which is OK, as he was still a successful NHLer.

 

[yianik]

Eller had 2C upside, he just didn't reach it. Which is OK, as he was still a successful NHLer.

Could be wrong, but I understood from the poster I was replying to that 3C upside at 15 was good value. Which in my view it is not. I say this as an Eller supporter who was in the minority when he was traded away.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Velenos drummondville production is a mirage.

Watch his u-18s and watch his SJ tape. It's the same. He's simply flawed.

 

[Janne Niinimaa]

For the most part, the 15th-20th best player from a draft ends up being a good 3rd line centre. Obviously you're hoping that the guy you take ends up being better, but walking out with a good 3rd line centre isnt a bad result. Its just not what this team needs.

 

[yianik]

I think if TT thinks Svech is a tier above Zadina then we try to trade picks with the Canes.

If TT thinks Zadina is a tier above everybody else and is elite, we take him, unless TT strongly believes Kotkaniemi has real good 1C potential, in which case we take Kotkaniemi.

If TT really thinks Tkachuk is our guy at 3 I think somebody in the organization needs to beat him with a stick, put a bag over his head and tie him up in the woods somewhere until after the draft, all the while he rewrites the list.

 

[Mrb1p]

You don't pick a guy at 15 hoping or expecting him to be a 3rd liner. You want 2C upside at the least.

It's not just about upside though, Eller is the 15th or so best player in his draft, and if Veleno is that, it's a fine pick.

 

[yianik]

It's not just about upside though, Eller is the 15th or so best player in his draft, and if Veleno is that, it's a fine pick.

Well if you actually get the 15th best player when you drafted 15th I have to agree you got your picks worth.

 

[Fozz]

I don’t think it’s fair to compare Kotkaniemi and Galchenyuk. I understand your point, but they are not comparable in two way play and puck protection. Plus we didn’t have the advantage of seeing Galchenyuk his draft year. Maybe under more scrutiny it would have been obvious he was not a long-term solution at centre. I think it’s obvious Kotkaniemi is.

Makes me wonder if they didn't have Forsberg rated higher but drafted Galcheyuk in the hope of filling the center need. Makes me wonder if they'll make the same mistake this year.

 

[yianik]

Makes me wonder if they didn't have Forsberg rated higher but drafted Galcheyuk in the hope of filling the center need. Makes me wonder if they'll make the same mistake this year.

The mistake was not being able to say after 6 years that they really tried everything to make him a centre.

Think about it. After one season with CJ most everybody agrees Chucky has really improved his overall game. Think what might, I say might have happened if they had sent him back to junior to work on his defensive game and for damn sure if they hadn't have put him into the hands of a " its not my job to develop players " coach like MT.

 

[Fozz]

The mistake was not being able to say after 6 years that they really tried everything to make him a centre.

Think about it. After one season with CJ most everybody agrees Chucky has really improved his overall game. Think what might, I say might have happened if they had sent him back to junior to work on his defensive game and for damn sure if they hadn't have put him into the hands of a " its not my job to develop players " coach like MT.

That's a lot of ifs. What if he had put in the work and commitment to excel? The biggest responsibility for a player's development falls on the player himself.

 

[Noble]

I don’t think it’s fair to compare Kotkaniemi and Galchenyuk. I understand your point, but they are not comparable in two way play and puck protection. Plus we didn’t have the advantage of seeing Galchenyuk his draft year. Maybe under more scrutiny it would have been obvious he was not a long-term solution at centre. I think it’s obvious Kotkaniemi is.

Yep, you're right. Those two players definetly aren't very comparable at all. I was just saying that the best center on draft day doesn't always translate to a center in the NHL.

I will admit that I didn't watch Kotkaniemi before he really started rising. I really liked what I saw from the few games I was able to check out. From what I saw, he definetly has the tools to become a good center in the league. Im sure someone who watched him more intensively would have a better analysis on his strengths/weaknesses regarding playing in the center of the ice.

I believe @WeThreeKings expressed some concern regarding how his game as a center could translate to the NHL a month or so ago. Maybe he could shed some more light on that.

Then again, maybe my memory is failing me and he was talking about a completely different player . Both are just as likely to be honest.

 

[HuGort]

He’s an average player. That’s what scouting is. I don’t see a good offensive player for the NHL. He lacks any great ability other than his skating, which makes him sound like a 3rd liner.

Funny Zadina basically scored as many goals as a rookie in his first season in NA as Veleno did in three full Q seasons. They are not comparable.

Zadina is better player. But 1.5 ppg as 18 year old. Shows decent offensive vision.

 

[le_sean]

Yep, you're right. Those two players definetly aren't very comparable at all. I was just saying that the best center on draft day doesn't always translate to a center in the NHL.

I will admit that I didn't watch Kotkaniemi before he really started rising. I really liked what I saw from the few games I was able to check out. From what I saw, he definetly has the tools to become a good center in the league. Im sure someone who watched him more intensively would have a better analysis on his strengths/weaknesses regarding playing in the center of the ice.

I believe @WeThreeKings expressed some concern regarding how his game as a center could translate to the NHL a month or so ago. Maybe he could shed some more light on that.

Then again, maybe my memory is failing me and he was talking about a completely different player . Both are just as likely to be honest.

I have more faith in Claude Julien turning a young player into a dependable centre than I do Therrien. I think that's a big factor. If they just let him play centre from the start and let him make mistakes, show him tape and fix his issues, that could go a long way.