Prospect Info: 2018 NHL Draft / Pick #28 - Nils Lundkvist (D)

[darko]

My big issue with fox is his skating. People are kinda skirting it as if it's nothing because of his brilliance with the puck on his stick...but it's a concern for me.

Absolutely his skating is a concern.

 

[darko]

They really aren’t brotha

Nils plays against men. Miller plays against boys.

 

[nyr2k2]

Nils plays against men. Miller plays against boys.

The average NCAA player is around 22. They're not experienced professional players, but they're not 16/17/18-year-old kids in junior hockey. In terms of height/weight, not much difference if any between B10 and SHL or Allsvenskan.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The average NCAA player is around 22. They're not experienced professional players, but they're not 16/17/18-year-old kids in junior hockey. In terms of height/weight, not much difference if any between B10 and SHL or Allsvenskan.

How many of those B10 players will actually go on to play professionally in a top-3 league in the world though? It's not just about age

 

[nyr2k2]

How many of those B10 players will actually go on to play professionally in a top-3 league in the world though? It's not just about age

That's why I said they're "not experienced professional players." But the men or boys argument is almost always about physical development. The guys in big-time NCAA hockey are not "boys" by any stretch. If the intent is to talk about the sophistication of the players around you, it would be better stated as playing in a top professional league vs amateur hockey.

Beyond that, the playing professional hockey vs playing college hockey does not really make for much of an argument when presented by itself.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

That's why I said they're "not experienced professional players." But the men or boys argument is almost always about physical development. The guys in big-time NCAA hockey are not "boys" by any stretch. If the intent is to talk about the sophistication of the players around you, it would be better stated as playing in a top professional league vs amateur hockey.

Beyond that, the playing professional hockey vs playing college hockey does not really make for much of an argument when presented by itself.

Let's just refer to it as quality of opposition then. Not men vs boys.

 

[nyr2k2]

Let's just refer to it as quality of opposition then. Not men vs boys.

Sure, that's a better characterization. I still think that by itself, it doesn't tell you much about either player. Particularly when discussing European prospects and North American prospects, given that the former don't exactly have many options other than to enter the professional sphere, whereas the NA guys can do any number of things before turning pro.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Sure, that's a better characterization. I still think that by itself, it doesn't tell you much about either player. Particularly when discussing European prospects and North American prospects, given that the former don't exactly have many options other than to enter the professional sphere, whereas the NA guys can do any number of things before turning pro.

Yeah. They have different paths. But it's important, and sometimes lost on some, that EU prospects do play professional hockey and that the difference in points is not a red flag. I had this same debate this weekend with someone.

You can't just compare NCAA to SHL. And it's a moot point. Some value pro experience, some don't. I personally think what Lundkvist has shown in the SHL as an 18 year old is great. Something that doesn't happen often. Is this a guarantee for succcess? No, not at all. Neither is Miller's performance in the NCAA.

Both players have a great skillset though. They can both go north-south skating past an entire team regularly, and defensively they are also really good. But both are still teenagers. It's too soon to tell what will happen. I personally think Lundkvist is a bit further ahead in his development overall, while Miller is better offensively.

Lundkvist is already trusted to defend a lead in the SHL. Played 18-20 minutes to end the season and is projected to move up to the top pair, replacing Sellgren.

Miller has done everything you could have asked. You could argue for some players, it's holding them back, not having a better option than junior/college hockey.

 

[eco's bones]

How many of those B10 players will actually go on to play professionally in a top-3 league in the world though? It's not just about age

I don't know. But looking at the personnel of last year's Frolunda team that won the SHL championship most of them would not make good NHL players. Their top 10 scorers--1. Ryan Lasch was a former AHL/ECHL guy, 2. Simon Hjalmarrson a STL. 2nd rounder in 2007 who never played in North American, 3. Joel Lundqvist who is 37 like his twin brother and was more an AHL player than an NHL player, 4. Patrik Carlsson, 5. Pathrik Westerholm--a former 6th rounder by Vancouver, 6. Samuel Fagemo--just drafted in the 2nd round and I would think will be an NHL player, 7. Chay Genoway-8. Max Friberg-9. Rhett Rakhshani--all former AHL guys and 10. Ponthus Westerholm. Jordan Sigalet and Brandon Gormely also on the team both AHL guys. The goalie Johan Gustafsson another AHL guy.

Some of the better college programs will put 5/6 guys in the NHL even if the average age of the team is 21/22.

 

[nyr2k2]

Miller has done everything you could have asked. You could argue for some players, it's holding them back, not having a better option than junior/college hockey.

There's always a balance. You could also make the argument that it's a benefit to players in North American that they have choices. They can choose the path that they think is best for their development, whether it be playing Major Junior, NCAA, doing a year in Junior A then going to college, turning pro ASAP, etc. Players don't always make the best choices, but I think for your more talented prospects, who work with their people and the NHL teams affiliated with them, it's a real benefit to having a lot of choices for career development.

EDIT: Not saying the European system is bad. The systems are just so different. I was reading about a young Italian football starlet who tried out for Milan's academy at 8. He goes to Piacenza and later Brescia. But the fact that he would be tied in some manner to a professional team beginning at 8, that would seem crazy to your average NA sports fan. I find it all really interesting, how the different development programs are handled across sports, across continents and individual countries. Could you imagine, if we could sign players at 15 and then develop them in a Rangers academy? Could be awesome. A Rangers U18 and U20 squad playing together all year, getting ready for promotion to the big club.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I don't know. But looking at the personnel of last year's Frolunda team that won the SHL championship most of them would not make good NHL players. Their top 10 scorers--1. Ryan Lasch was a former AHL/ECHL guy, 2. Simon Hjalmarrson a STL. 2nd rounder in 2007 who never played in North American, 3. Joel Lundqvist who is 37 like his twin brother and was more an AHL player than an NHL player, 4. Patrik Carlsson, 5. Pathrik Westerholm--a former 6th rounder by Vancouver, 6. Samuel Fagemo--just drafted in the 2nd round and I would think will be an NHL player, 7. Chay Genoway-8. Max Friberg-9. Rhett Rakhshani--all former AHL guys and 10. Ponthus Westerholm. Jordan Sigalet and Brandon Gormely also on the team both AHL guys. The goalie Johan Gustafsson another AHL guy.

Some of the better college programs will put 5/6 guys in the NHL even if the average age of the team is 21/22.

While this is all true, I am willing to bet that any SHL team is better than any NCAA team at this very moment. Because those future NHL players currently in the NCAA aren't NHL ready yet and would, in my opinion, struggle against SHL/Liiga/AHL teams. That's my entire point. In 2019, the average SHL player is better than the average NCAA player

 

[Inferno]

I don't know. But looking at the personnel of last year's Frolunda team that won the SHL championship most of them would not make good NHL players. Their top 10 scorers--1. Ryan Lasch was a former AHL/ECHL guy, 2. Simon Hjalmarrson a STL. 2nd rounder in 2007 who never played in North American, 3. Joel Lundqvist who is 37 like his twin brother and was more an AHL player than an NHL player, 4. Patrik Carlsson, 5. Pathrik Westerholm--a former 6th rounder by Vancouver, 6. Samuel Fagemo--just drafted in the 2nd round and I would think will be an NHL player, 7. Chay Genoway-8. Max Friberg-9. Rhett Rakhshani--all former AHL guys and 10. Ponthus Westerholm. Jordan Sigalet and Brandon Gormely also on the team both AHL guys. The goalie Johan Gustafsson another AHL guy.

Some of the better college programs will put 5/6 guys in the NHL even if the average age of the team is 21/22.

All this is true...but you have to ask yourself...what's better...playing with and against guys who have already played professional North American hockey...or playing with and against guys who may someday play professional North American hockey.

The shl guys have been there and learned that game and are theoretically more advanced in their game having gone through all that.

Hard to say.

 

[nyr2k2]

While this is all true, I am willing to bet that any SHL team is better than any NCAA team at this very moment. Because those future NHL players currently in the NCAA aren't NHL ready yet and would, in my opinion, struggle against SHL/Liiga/AHL teams. That's my entire point. In 2019, the average SHL player is better than the average NCAA player

Well I think that's just it, obviously the professional leagues are "better" than Junior or NCAA hockey. But for me, that's just context to a player's performance, it doesn't make one guy better than the other. It just helps contextualize their performances. And I don't necessarily buy the "readiness" argument, because the game they play in the KHL, SHL, Liiga, and even the AHL is not the game that's played in the NHL. So while the experience of playing professionally outside the NHL is without a doubt a good thing, I don't believe that it's that big of a deal--because the experience in non-NHL leagues doesn't necessarily translate to the NHL, as we've seen literally countless times.

 

[Kovalev27]

Nils plays against men. Miller plays against boys.

Big difference between ncaa and boys like in junior hockey. KAndre plays against plenty of men and is dominating. Nils isn’t dominating the SHL.

I mean Miller is being talked about as a favorite for the Hobey Baker as a sophomore. He’s considered by many as one of the best prospects in hockey. Nils is not even remotely close to that level of player. Sorry like him but he does not have first pair upside. Miller could be a franchise dman.

 

[AB13]

Big difference between ncaa and boys like in junior hockey. KAndre plays against plenty of men and is dominating. Nils isn’t dominating the SHL.

I mean Miller is being talked about as a favorite for the Hobey Baker as a sophomore. He’s considered by many as one of the best prospects in hockey. Nils is not even remotely close to that level of player. Sorry like him but he does not have first pair upside. Miller could be a franchise dman.

The SHL is still the third best league in the world so being a regular there all season as an 18 year old and putting up good numbers is very impressive. Miller has been great in the NCAA but dominant is an overexagerration. He is not far ahead of Nils at the moment. Lundqvist plays a much more solid and mature game with less mistakes.

 

[eco's bones]

While this is all true, I am willing to bet that any SHL team is better than any NCAA team at this very moment. Because those future NHL players currently in the NCAA aren't NHL ready yet and would, in my opinion, struggle against SHL/Liiga/AHL teams. That's my entire point. In 2019, the average SHL player is better than the average NCAA player

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that though there are NCAA teams that are able to stack themselves with NHL talent. The SHL and KHL aren't development leagues or at least not anything like the CHL. For college players--they are development leagues too but a lot of players know they're not going to be pros--the benefit for them is either the scholarship or in the case of the Ivy League schools a prestigious education. The bulk of SHL/KHL players are European pros and a good many of them are real vets. There are also a number of players who've played in the NHL and for some reason or other weren't able to stick and quite a number as well of guys pretty much stuck at the AHL level--the European leagues also tend to work on skill and skating development more and have more practice time for their players.

But anyway I'm not a fan of this theory of leagues that gets thrown out here every once in a while particularly by one poster. I think there are good players coming from everywhere. People take different avenues to get to where they get in life--it's the same for hockey players--so if Reunanen had to work out some issues in Mestis his career being over because he's playing in a Finnish beer league is a ridiculous assumption. It's just simply part of his journey. I'm also not a fan of the idea of just drafting North Americans or just drafting Europeans. There should be reasons why you pick the guys you do apart from where they were born or learned to play. I'm happy with how our latest drafts have gone and I think we have great prospects coming from a variety of leagues and countries. It's a good mix to me. I also think an NHL team cannot survive just on offensive creativity alone--you need grinders and guys with grit--some guys who are very responsible defensively. There are also guys who make it not necessarily because they've got tons of talent but out of force of will. They bring character to a team.

 

[darko]

Big difference between ncaa and boys like in junior hockey. KAndre plays against plenty of men and is dominating. Nils isn’t dominating the SHL.

I mean Miller is being talked about as a favorite for the Hobey Baker as a sophomore. He’s considered by many as one of the best prospects in hockey. Nils is not even remotely close to that level of player. Sorry like him but he does not have first pair upside. Miller could be a franchise dman.

Nils is dominating. Compare his stats to guys like EK and co at the same age and he comes out looking very good.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Nils is dominating. Compare his stats to guys like EK and co at the same age and he comes out looking very good.

If you also ignore the nobodies ahead of him on that list, sure

 

[nyr2k2]

Miller was dominating both sides of the puck in his games, as well. He was a physical force, and more importantly, made few mistakes and looked incredibly mature given the recent switch from forward and the belief that he was a raw prospect. He looked like a polished prospect who could take over games, which is very rare for a true freshman. The fact that he likely would have led his his team in points from the back end at 18 is an enormous feat.

But, as I've said a few times , what separates him from Fox or Lundkvist or Rykov or anyone else, is that he profiles as an exceptional player--but he ALSO profiles as a f***ing behemoth out there, which the other guys don't. That's what gives him a clear edge. He can skate, he can defend, he can join the rush or create a rush on his own, and he can manhandle the opposition (and not just boys, but guys that are 23, 24 playing NCAA hockey). His physical profile just puts him on a totally different level, even if his other skills are similar to the other guys.

Zdeno Chara was a phenomenal player. He had so many skills, but he also could rag-doll the f*** out of the opposition, which set him apart from many of his peers who also played a great two-way game. The same for guys like prime Lindros and Ovechkin--if they were 6'1", 205, they'd still be great. But instead they're f***ing wrecking balls on skates at 6'4" and 230+. Miller probably ends up 6'6" and 230, and impossible to move off the puck--and absolutely blowing away opposing forwards.

 

[Levitate]

Yeah...what makes Miller intriguing is that size combined with fantastic athletic ability, work ethic, and smarts. He had/has a lot of work to do learning the position and improving aspects of his game and he didn't just rely on his physical tools, he worked hard to improve the technical side of his game and become a more complete player.
Size without those other things is useless, but combined with those things is why teams still keep trying to draft for size at times because when it all comes together it's an incredible package in the NHL

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Hope some news comes out on Nils, didn’t look good

 

[Cag29]

Miller was dominating both sides of the puck in his games, as well. He was a physical force, and more importantly, made few mistakes and looked incredibly mature given the recent switch from forward and the belief that he was a raw prospect. He looked like a polished prospect who could take over games, which is very rare for a true freshman. The fact that he likely would have led his his team in points from the back end at 18 is an enormous feat.

But, as I've said a few times , what separates him from Fox or Lundkvist or Rykov or anyone else, is that he profiles as an exceptional player--but he ALSO profiles as a ****ing behemoth out there, which the other guys don't. That's what gives him a clear edge. He can skate, he can defend, he can join the rush or create a rush on his own, and he can manhandle the opposition (and not just boys, but guys that are 23, 24 playing NCAA hockey). His physical profile just puts him on a totally different level, even if his other skills are similar to the other guys.

Zdeno Chara was a phenomenal player. He had so many skills, but he also could rag-doll the **** out of the opposition, which set him apart from many of his peers who also played a great two-way game. The same for guys like prime Lindros and Ovechkin--if they were 6'1", 205, they'd still be great. But instead they're ****ing wrecking balls on skates at 6'4" and 230+. Miller probably ends up 6'6" and 230, and impossible to move off the puck--and absolutely blowing away opposing forwards.

Let’s be thankful that both Millervand Lundqvist are Rangers!!!

 

[Miamipuck]

There's always a balance. You could also make the argument that it's a benefit to players in North American that they have choices. They can choose the path that they think is best for their development, whether it be playing Major Junior, NCAA, doing a year in Junior A then going to college, turning pro ASAP, etc. Players don't always make the best choices, but I think for your more talented prospects, who work with their people and the NHL teams affiliated with them, it's a real benefit to having a lot of choices for career development.

EDIT: Not saying the European system is bad. The systems are just so different. I was reading about a young Italian football starlet who tried out for Milan's academy at 8. He goes to Piacenza and later Brescia. But the fact that he would be tied in some manner to a professional team beginning at 8, that would seem crazy to your average NA sports fan. I find it all really interesting, how the different development programs are handled across sports, across continents and individual countries. Could you imagine, if we could sign players at 15 and then develop them in a Rangers academy? Could be awesome. A Rangers U18 and U20 squad playing together all year, getting ready for promotion to the big club.

The NHL used to do this before the entry draft, that's part of the reason the Rangers didn't win crap from WW2 until 1994. Not to ruin everyone's narrative why the Rangers were garbage all those years. It wasn't until the late 60's where they were even competitive.

That's why Montreal won a zillion Stanley Cups. It's not difficult being gifted a French super star or two every year.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

“(We) had received news that the MRI showed no serious injury,” Lulea PR went on to say. “(We) do not expect him on the ice next week, but the week after that.”
Lundkvist, 19, has been deemed unavailable for the remainder of the World Junior Summer Showcase following an apparent ankle injury last Sunday.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Time to exhale.