GDT: 2018 Free Agency: Jay Beagle 4 x 3M, Antoine Roussel 4 x 3.25M, both w/ limited NTCs

[krutovsdonut]

gaudette is going to start in the ahl if they sign one of these centres. they will want to develop him as a centre and give him minutes.

the defence logjam plus maybe juolevi/ hughes means we likely carry 8 d, so only 1 extra forward.

if things go like last year what they are doing makes sense and it will shake out in the wash but
what will be interesting is if the canucks overload expecting injuries and then get none. it is not good to trade guys you just signed as a ufa. it discourages future ufas.

 

[iceburg]

Eriksson $6.0
Sutter $4.375
Gudbranson $4.0
Gagner $3.15
Roussel $3.0*
Del Zotto $3.0
Beagle $2.5*
Nilsson $2.5
---
That's nearly $30 million on waiver wire fodder.

A little perspective...
The amount overpaid to players not named Eriksson barely adds up to Eriksson's contract.
All are NHL players (not waiver wire fodder) and it's certainly arguable that the following numbers are reasonable:
Sutter $3.5
Gudbranson $2.5
Gagner $2.275
Roussel $2.0*
Del Zotto $2.5
Beagle $2.0*
Nilsson $1.75

I'll save you the math. The difference adds up to $6M. Eriksson's contract and about 7.5% of the salary cap. Yes, the others are overpaid. But they are not waiver wire fodder and their contracts don't compare to the disaster that is Eriksson's contract. And I actually like Eriksson as a player deployed correctly and at the right price.

 

[Nuckles]

A little perspective...
The amount overpaid to players not named Eriksson barely adds up to Eriksson's contract.
All are NHL players (not waiver wire fodder) and it's certainly arguable that the following numbers are reasonable:
Sutter $3.5
Gudbranson $2.5
Gagner $2.275
Roussel $2.0*
Del Zotto $2.5
Beagle $2.0*
Nilsson $1.75

I'll save you the math. The difference adds up to $6M. Eriksson's contract and about 7.5% of the salary cap. Yes, the others are overpaid. But they are not waiver wire fodder and their contracts don't compare to the disaster that is Eriksson's contract. And I actually like Eriksson as a player deployed correctly and at the right price.

The only one that's decent is Sutter. Everyone else on that list could be replaced by players making the league minimum (or prospects) and there would be no difference. It's much more than $6M, and that's excluding Eriksson.

 

[Nick Lang]

I don't understand how we will fit Roussel/Beagle in this lineup. I thought this year was supposed to be an transition year, and we are giving bottom 6 players 3+ years term?

By signing these bottom 6 players all you are doing is pushing young guys out of the lineup. Hows that going to help us long term? We are a team that needs to develop NHL players, by keeping our young guys out of the lineup, you aren't developing any of them. Also, what if Lind surprises in training camp? What if Gadjovich? Imagine how much money you'll have to put in the press box, imagine how embarrassing that would look onto the GM. Of course, what they'll do is they'll just sit the kids and hurt their development just to play 30+ year old bottom 6 players on long term contracts. Signing Beagle and Roussel to long term contracts is just counter productive to the goal of actually developing players.

At the end of the day you still need those types of guys to play those roles. Ideally you don't want Dahlen, Petterson, Lind, Goldobin, or even Leipsic playing in your bottom six. Expecting to just throw all these kids in your bottom six and expecting them to be filling roles in three years is completely unrealistic.

 

[iceburg]

The only one that's decent is Sutter. Everyone else on that list could be replaced by players making the league minimum (or prospects) and there would be no difference. It's much more than $6M, and that's excluding Eriksson.

And this is the other side of the argument. Kinda disagree but I'm not so enamoured with any of these players that I'm going to put up a big argument. All fill NHL spots and are NHL players (and take cap space) but none are going to be huge difference makers. NHL rosters are full of guys like this - NHL caliber players, some who once were highly touted (Gudbranson) but have settled into being bottom tier players. And there is something to having a veteran presence, though I think it gets overblown. You can't just have a roster of all rookies. Would be fun to watch but it wouldn't be good long term.

 

[Pavel96]

And this is the other side of the argument. Kinda disagree but I'm not so enamoured with any of these players that I'm going to put up a big argument. All fill NHL spots and are NHL players (and take cap space) but none are going to be huge difference makers. NHL rosters are full of guys like this - NHL caliber players, some who once were highly touted (Gudbranson) but have settled into being bottom tier players. And there is something to having a veteran presence (though I think it gets overblown). You can't just have a roster of all rookies. Would be fun to watch but it wouldn't be good long term.

4 M x 3 for a bottom tier player (perpetually injured) that had to have season ending surgery before the ink was dry on his contract? NHL rosters are full of contracts like that?

 

[MrBojangles]

At the end of the day you still need those types of guys to play those roles. Ideally you don't want Dahlen, Petterson, Lind, Goldobin, or even Leipsic playing in your bottom six. Expecting to just throw all these kids in your bottom six and expecting them to be filling roles in three years is completely unrealistic.

Hasn’t the “bottom 6” narrative died

You don’t have to play unskilled grinders in your bottom 6 anymore

Third lines around the league are all skilled lines pretty much

 

[FOurteenS inCisOr]

I’ve grown to dislike Edler because I feel like he is happy enough to collect his paycheque and give the minimum amount each game..... he was capable of so much more and just seems to not be willing to play to that level

Or...the player you see is the player you get with Edler—which is still a very capable 2/3 NHL defenseman—and people were foolish to anoint him the “next Lidstrom” when he was younger.

I wonder who the next waive of players that fans will “grow to dislike” for not meeting unreasonable expectations will be.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

God, I really hope Tavares doesn't sign with the f***ing Leafs.

 

[iceburg]

4 M x 3 for a bottom tier player (perpetually injured) that had to have season ending surgery before the ink was dry on his contract? NHL rosters are full of contracts like that?

I had Gudbranson at $2.5M if you read the previous post. He is overpaid by at least $1.5M

 

[passive voice]

...
The game is mostly mental and you only get confidence after you know for a fact that you could do something and the guy like Jay Beagle has done that something almost 500 times at something is playing NHL game...

I doubt rookies look around the room and go "well if that dipshit has played this long I'll be fine" BUT even if they do:
-Eriksson 838 GP
-Gagner 770 GP
-Edler 758 GP
-Sutter 657 GP
-Del Zotto 566 GP

Plenty of scrubs to mentor guys.

 

[Pavel96]

I had Gudbranson at $2.5 if you read the post.

Ah, we were talking about the make believe numbers. So in make believe land, is Guddy at 2.5 x 3? Because that's still a bad contract.

 

[iceburg]

Ah, we were talking about the make believe numbers. So in make believe land, is Guddy at 2.5 x 3? Because that's still a bad contract.

That most of the 30 other teams would pay.

 

[Pavel96]

That most of the 30 other teams would pay.

If the other teams are living in make believe land, where they can magically change what they are paying him- sure.

 

[Pavel96]

I doubt rookies look around the room and go "well if that dip**** has played this long I'll be fine" BUT even if they do:
-Eriksson 838 GP
-Gagner 770 GP
-Edler 758 GP
-Del Zotto 566 GP

Plenty of scrubs to mentor guys.

Do overpaid scrubs count as 'scrubs to mentor guys'?

 

[The Drop]

gaudette is going to start in the ahl if they sign one of these centres. they will want to develop him as a centre and give him minutes.

the defence logjam plus maybe juolevi/ hughes means we likely carry 8 d, so only 1 extra forward.

if things go like last year what they are doing makes sense and it will shake out in the wash but
what will be interesting is if the canucks overload expecting injuries and then get none. it is not good to trade guys you just signed as a ufa. it discourages future ufas.

I dont think Gaudette did anything that proved he belongs in the NHL in his short stint. They're prob trying to get insurance here in case he doesn't make it.

The contracts being dished out however seem ridiculous

 

[iceburg]

If the other teams are living in make believe land, where they can magically change what they are paying him- sure.

I think you may have missed the point of my original post. They are overpaid but the $$ don't make a huge difference in the larger scheme of things, except for Eriksson's contract.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

I dont think Gaudette did anything that proved he belongs in the NHL in his short stint. They're prob trying to get insurance here in case he doesn't make it.

The contracts being dished out however seem ridiculous

Agreed on this - however, if he has a strong summer and a great camp, I'd hate for him to be sent down purely because we signed too many veterans.

 

[The Drop]

I think you may have missed the point of my original post. They are overpaid but the $$ don't make a huge difference in the larger scheme of things, except for Eriksson's contract.

They DO make a difference in the larger scheme. You end up having people who re-sign wanting more money and becoming overpaid because "Pylon A" was making more money than them and producing much less. When guys like Peterson and Boeser are up for huge contracts, these "dont make a difference" deals are whats going to push the canucks against the cap and not be able to ice a good team.

 

[iceburg]

They DO make a difference in the larger scheme. You end up having people who re-sign wanting more money and becoming overpaid because "Pylon A" was making more money than them and producing much less. When guys like Peterson and Boeser are up for huge contracts, these "dont make a difference" deals are whats going to push the canucks against the cap and not be able to ice a good team.

Disagree. The reality is that there are overpaid players on every team. Whether this was a miscalculation of value upfront or an unexpected drop off in play, it happens all the time and should be expected to some degree. Sure, in a perfect world every contract would be exactly reflecting the value that the player brings to the team. But, do I need to point out that we're far from being in a perfect world? What can be heavily criticized are those contracts that are so far from the realm of explanation that they should have never been negotiated in the first place. That is typically reserved for contracts for players like Louis Eriksson, Seabrook, Okposo, and Lucic.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

I agree Sutter and Eriksonn aren't waiver wire players (no one would take Eriksonns contract anyways lol) but the post I replied to referenced- 'every team has a couple of guys like this, every team has poor contracts and UFA's are overpaid'. In the NHL they get 18 skaters on a team? to have 7/18 and 1/2 goalies on a list like that is pretty brutal/telling as to why this team has been so horrendous. Let's not make excuses and compare the Canucks performance to every team in the league - they really have been at the bottom and in a class with the worst 5 teams consistently in the last 4 years.

The Canucks do have a bottom heavy team but the make up of that 3rd-4th lineup isn’t all that dire, it’s the complete lack of a 2nd line and a top Pairing defense that makes us a bottom 5 team for 4 years

The Sutters, Gaunces, Gagners leave a bit to be desired but what we should be gripping over is missing the top end guys

 

[Pavel96]

I think you may have missed the point of my original post. They are overpaid but the $$ don't make a huge difference in the larger scheme of things, except for Eriksson's contract.

I didn't miss the point. It's just a stretch to make up fake numbers and then guarantee the rest of the NHL would even be in on them. I think you are over valuing this player, like the Canucks did when they traded for him (as he is now worth pennies on the dollar). It does make a huge difference when half of your contracts are bad ones. It only doesn't because the team is generally horrible, so it's not like you can point to any one or two contracts and say "they need to get out from under this to have a chance at the cup".

The brutal contracts and selection of players does make a huge difference, because even if boeser and petterson become 'elite' if the rest of the team (save 1 or 2 players) assembled around them is overpaid garbage they will not compete with the elite teams int he NHL (as linden promised) for a long time to come. And when the team starts to become average, and not get these high draft picks every year and they are hemorrhaging more assets to become more competitive (all the while targeting poor players and signing them to huge deals) what will happen then? Why do they have to suck at this stuff now, just because they have a lot of cap space?

 

[Pavel96]

Disagree. The reality is that there are overpaid players on every team. Whether this was a miscalculation of value upfront or an unexpected drop off in play, it happens all the time and should be expected to some degree. Sure, in a perfect world every contract would be exactly reflecting the value that the player brings to the team. But, do I need to point out that we're far from being in a perfect world? What can be heavily criticized are those contracts that are so far from the realm of explanation that they should have never been negotiated in the first place. That is typically reserved for contracts for players like Louis Eriksson, Seabrook, Okposo, and Lucic.

Lol, Canucks, blackhawks, sabres, and edmonton - all great teams in the NHL last season the I'm sure washington/winnipeg/nashville aspire to be like. Why isn't washington making sure they retain beagle and joining the canucks in the bidding war?

 

[Pavel96]

The Canucks do have a bottom heavy team but the make up of that 3rd-4th lineup isn’t all that dire, it’s the complete lack of a 2nd line and a top Pairing defense that makes us a bottom 5 team for 4 years

The Sutters, Gaunces, Gagners leave a bit to be desired but what we should be gripping over is missing the top end guys

To me it's the total package. Hitting on some low end guys is also key to "competing with the elite teams in the NHL for a long time". I agree the Eriksonn contract hurts the canucks more than two or more of those other contracts combined but pain is pain. Someone on here years ago posted how Benning could destroy this team with "a death by a thousand cuts" and it seemed to resonate.

 

[krutovsdonut]

I dont think Gaudette did anything that proved he belongs in the NHL in his short stint. They're prob trying to get insurance here in case he doesn't make it.

The contracts being dished out however seem ridiculous

they definitely have to get some insurance. it's a huge stretch to think the various kids will all be ready and can carry a full load all season. they have to be sheltered and spelled off and eased into pressure situations. plus if the wheels fall off badly they need to send those guys down to utica to protect them from tire fire smoke inhalation.

last year i hated the vanek signing strictly on the vet numbers crowding out prospects. it turned out to be a silly concern.

as for contracts, i think we always underestimate market value just because all the numbers seem insane. it does seem ridiculous for a fourth liner to get over $2 million a year, but brad richardson got that for 3 years from az three years ago. proven competent reliable role players get paid.