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OT: 2018 Football Thread: Camp is (almost) here!!!!!

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Hunter Gathers said:
I've asked multiple times for the individual metrics and/or stats that would put Manning above Rivers or Roethlisberger for their respective careers. You and others asked have just dodged the question about 10 times, now.

You need to research how the AP works. You're woefully uninformed. I'm not going to hold your hand and walk you through how the national sports media works since I have neither the time nor the patience. Why do you think the NFL records the AP votes for All Pro designation? It's not due to some herd effect or because these folks aren't experts. Perhaps your own country sucks for sports media and you're just projecting your own garbage onto the AP. I have no clue. Whatever it is, it is really quite cringeworthy. You clearly know nothing about how the AP functions and how important it is to the league (and sports in general).

The fact that you need to resort to cherrypicking someone you disagree with (like Bayless) speaks to your complete lack of knowledge. That's the argument of someone ignorant about sample size, the AP in general, and the fact that the AP doesn't even disclose voters.

You can feel free to have the last word. I'm sure you'll post something equally cringeworthy as you have for the last 25-30 posts. Some woefully uninformed quip about the AP or some more misunderstandings about year-end voting. Yeesh.
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I never said Manning has a better career than Rivers and Roehtlisberger, I said that they had a pretty similar career and I've said millions times that his individual stats are a little worse than the other 2 because he played 10 year in a system that didn't do him any favors on an individual base.
And yes, Im' saying that the sports journalists sucks in USA, members of the AP or not. Those are the guys the thought Peyton Manning sucked hard against Tom Brady, and he has a better record against Brady in the playoffs, those are the guys that think Toews is better than Malkin and etc.
Now that you had your pseudo shot against my country, I will use the opportunity to say that your country has a whole network, Fox News, who is know for spreading out another level of stupids thoughts, oh, they also helped electing a bafoon for a president.
I'm shocked by the quality of your media.
 
nyr2k2 said:
He's Jewish (by birth), he's an atheist, and he's pretty outspoken in his political views which don't align with most of the rich owners and many of the front office-types. A lot of people will dislike him for those things.
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Jewish aspect doesn't have much to do with it. Decent number of Jewish NFLers/Owners (Al Davis and Lyle Alzado come instantly to mind).

Politics is the big factor. Most athletes are conservative, most musicians/actors are liberals. If they go the opposite, it's news.
 
Fvital92 said:
I never said Manning has a better career than Rivers and Roehtlisberger, I said that they had a pretty similar career and I've said millions times that his individual stats are a little worse than the other 2 because he played 10 year in a system that didn't do him any favors on an individual base.
And yes, Im' saying that the sports journalists sucks in USA, members of the AP or not. Those are the guys the thought Peyton Manning sucked hard against Tom Brady, and he has a better record against Brady in the playoffs, those are the guys that think Toews is better than Malkin and etc.
Now that you had your pseudo shot against my country, I will use the opportunity to say that your country has a whole network, Fox News, who is know for spreading out another level of stupids thoughts, oh, they also helped electing a bafoon for a president.
I'm shocked by the quality of your media.
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Lol. :laugh:
 
White Plains Batman said:
Jewish aspect doesn't have much to do with it. Decent number of Jewish NFLers/Owners (Al Davis and Lyle Alzado come instantly to mind).

Politics is the big factor. Most athletes are conservative, most musicians/actors are liberals. If they go the opposite, it's news.
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Yeah, that's fair. I mainly just meant that he's different in more than a few ways from your average NFL player, and there are plenty of people who may take issue with him for any of those things (but yeah, less the Jewish thing).
 
Hunter Gathers said:
Now I do think that Manning is a step above Flacco for sure, but he's much closer to Flacco than he is Big Ben.
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I'm okay with that.

I just find the Eli defenders to be quite the hypocrites. He played 8 fantastic games in his career in the playoffs. He strung 4 of them together each time.

Beyond that, he's been pretty average. He's thrown his fair share of near 30TD seasons, but also lead the league in INTs multiple times.

He's an above average QB. That's it. Nothing to scoff at. He has longevity on his side, and health. Never sitting games out and always playing. It's a testament to his ability and resolve to always be out there, when the position has become as injury prone as any other.
 
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mrjimmyg89 said:
I'm okay with that.

I just find the Eli defenders to be quite the hypocrites. He played 8 fantastic games in his career in the playoffs. He strung 4 of them together each time.

Beyond that, he's been pretty average. He's thrown his fair share of near 30TD seasons, but also lead the league in INTs multiple times.

He's an above average QB. That's it. Nothing to scoff at. He has longevity on his side, and health. Never sitting games out and always playing. It's a testament to his ability and resolve to always be out there, when the position has become as injury prone as any other.
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Right! I don't understand why these people find this to be an insult. It's not! Saying the guy is average or above average, with his longevity, for as long as he's been around is simply not an insult. Either there is a serious language barrier or people are just purposely trying to make him into something he's not.
 
White Plains Batman said:
Jewish aspect doesn't have much to do with it. Decent number of Jewish NFLers/Owners (Al Davis and Lyle Alzado come instantly to mind).

Politics is the big factor. Most athletes are conservative, most musicians/actors are liberals. If they go the opposite, it's news.
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Most athletes are not conservative. If they were, ADA wouldn't have almost caused our board to have a civil war.

I also don't believe it is really political. At the end of the day, owners want to win and they don't care about political beliefs. They care about potential distractions. I mean, look at Josh Allen. 6 year old tweets were the main story of draft day. ESPN chose to make this their main focus. They took attention away from some great young men in order to create a big situation out of virtually nothing.

Rocco Grimaldi is no different. He didn't fall because of his beliefs. He fells because owners didn't want to draft a potential distraction. In all three instances, I can't say I blame them.
 
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Gardner McKay said:
Most athletes are not conservative. If they were, ADA wouldn't have almost caused our board to have a civil war.

I also don't believe it is really political. At the end of the day, owners want to win and they don't care about political beliefs. They care about potential distractions. I mean, look at Josh Allen. 6 year old tweets were the main story of draft day. ESPN chose to make this their main focus. They took attention away from some great young men in order to create a big situation out of virtually nothing.

Rocco Grimaldi is no different. He didn't fall because of his beliefs. He fells because owners didn't want to draft a potential distraction. In all three instances, I can't say I blame them.
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Most athletes are conservative. A lot are farmboys from the Bible Belt. Some of the NBA may be an exception but even Michael Jordan is Conservative. Money and taxes bro.
 
White Plains Batman said:
Most athletes are conservative. A lot are farmboys from the Bible Belt. Some of the NBA may be an exception but even Michael Jordan is Conservative. Money and taxes bro.
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Without getting into a political discussion because that is no way my intent (nor something we should be engaging in), I can assure you this is patently false. If we can keep it academic, I think there is a fair discussion to be had here though. Most NFL and NBA players are NOT conservative. African Americans have always been overwhelmingly liberal, near 70% of the NFL is African American and so is 75% of the NBA (the numbers vary slightly depending on where you look but seem to be generally in line). Majority of NHL'ers are Canadian and if you are using the US scale of conservative/liberal, even most "conservative" Canadians fall left of center in the United States. Additionally, the money and taxes mantra hasn't been applicable in sports, business etc. for 15+ years.

I think the farmboys from the Bible Belt stereotype woefully incorrect. It applies to one sport and specifically, one cluster of teams for one sport. If you were to say that NFL'ers from the SEC were more likely to be conservative, that is a fair premise. But the NFL as a whole as well as the rest of the major sports, vastly liberal as compared to being conservative (I'm not saying one or the other is right/wrong). Now NASCAR on the other hand... no question there :laugh:

All this to say... most owners don't care about politics and Rosen isn't going against the grain. They care about distractions. Rosen, Allen and Grimaldi (three examples discussed here), Rosen being liberal, Allen being ? and Grimaldi being conservative. All three are distractions. Their politics didn't and shouldn't matter. Their actions and inability to keep their mouth shut about their beliefs are what matters. That is what owners care about.

If I am an NFL owner and I am looking at guys like Tim Tebow & Colin Kaepernick... I don't want either distraction on my team and that is what both are.

I still think he (Rosen) is going to be a heck of a QB. I would have been very happy if the Jets picked him. But, when you have other guys with comparable talent, it can tip the scale. Then again the Browns took Mayfield who had tons of questions so who the hell knows. :laugh:
 
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Gardner McKay said:
Without getting into a political discussion because that is no way my intent (nor something we should be engaging in), I can assure you this is patently false. If we can keep it academic, I think there is a fair discussion to be had here though. Most NFL and NBA players are NOT conservative. African Americans have always been overwhelmingly liberal, near 70% of the NFL is African American and so is 75% of the NBA (the numbers vary slightly depending on where you look but seem to be generally in line). Majority of NHL'ers are Canadian and if you are using the US scale of conservative/liberal, even most "conservative" Canadians fall left of center in the United States. Additionally, the money and taxes mantra hasn't been applicable in sports, business etc. for 15+ years.

I think the farmboys from the Bible Belt stereotype woefully incorrect. It applies to one sport and specifically, one cluster of teams for one sport. If you were to say that NFL'ers from the SEC were more likely to be conservative, that is a fair premise. But the NFL as a whole as well as the rest of the major sports, vastly liberal as compared to being conservative (I'm not saying one or the other is right/wrong). Now NASCAR on the other hand... no question there :laugh:

All this to say... most owners don't care about politics and Rosen isn't going against the grain. They care about distractions. Rosen, Allen and Grimaldi (three examples discussed here), Rosen being liberal, Allen being ? and Grimaldi being conservative. All three are distractions. Their politics didn't and shouldn't matter. Their actions and inability to keep their mouth shut about their beliefs are what matters. That is what owners care about.

If I am an NFL owner and I am looking at guys like Tim Tebow & Colin Kaepernick... I don't want either distraction on my team and that is what both are.

I still think he (Rosen) is going to be a heck of a QB. I would have been very happy if the Jets picked him. But, when you have other guys with comparable talent, it can tip the scale. Then again the Browns took Mayfield who had tons of questions so who the hell knows. :laugh:
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Yeah, I wasn't trying to make it political. No worries dude. I'd say most MLB and NHL players are conservative, NBA is probably like 70/30, and NFL no idea. I'm only talking about star players like Peyton Manning or Phil Simms. I don't know about any OLine or you backup secondary, that's a survey. As far as NHL goes, I know for a fact some current Rangers used to go to young Republican meetings as was reported here years ago, and also with sports commentators: I follow several guys who cover the Rangers and I've seen them like Trump or Fox News tweets (won't name names unless mods need me to) and also WFAN in NY, Mistah Numbah One who just came back today, used to tick me off talking either horse racing or Trump. I don't care if he's friends with Chris Christie or a Trump supporter, but his show is about sports and the NY heartbeat of sports, not his personal politics.
 
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White Plains Batman said:
Yeah, I wasn't trying to make it political. No worries dude. I'd say most MLB and NHL players are conservative, NBA is probably like 70/30, and NFL no idea. I'm only talking about star players like Peyton Manning or Phil Simms. I don't know about any OLine or you backup secondary, that's a survey. As far as NHL goes, I know for a fact some current Rangers used to go to young Republican meetings as was reported here years ago, and also with sports commentators: I follow several guys who cover the Rangers and I've seen them like Trump or Fox News tweets (won't name names unless mods need me to) and also WFAN in NY, Mistah Numbah One who just came back today, used to tick me off talking either horse racing or Trump. I don't care if he's friends with Chris Christie or a Trump supporter, but his show is about sports and the NY heartbeat of sports, not his personal politics.
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Oh yeah I know you weren't. I just wanted to let you know where I was headed with my post ;)

Regarding the bold.. troof.
 
silverfish said:
https://nypost.com/2018/05/01/baker...witter&utm_medium=SocialFlow&sr_share=twitter

I don't think I buy this. I mean, I buy that the Pats would've tried, but I don't buy that the Giants would give up the pick. Mostly because NE's first choice in the 1st round was pick 23. And we know how much Gettleman wanted Saquon.
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It would’ve taken something like 4 first round picks or more. Picks that late are not all that valuable in a trade. I can’t even imagine any real offer.
 
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So I have seen a wide array of ratings for the Jets draft. I know most folks here are Giants fans but how would people rate the Jets draft?

Putting aside my trauma from the last time we drafted a USC QB, Darnold does look damn good. I think a B+/A- is in order? Shepard seems like a really good pick.
 
Some very good news for the off-season is that Flowers just hired Drew Rosenhaus.

I have to think Drew, who works off commission and has a good relationship with the Giants, reached out to him with all of his troubles his offseason.

Very interesting. Drew only makes money if Flowers improves. He’s not doing charity work, so I don’t see a negative with this news.
 
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Gardner McKay said:
So I have seen a wide array of ratings for the Jets draft. I know most folks here are Giants fans but how would people rate the Jets draft?

Putting aside my trauma from the last time we drafted a USC QB, Darnold does look damn good. I think a B+/A- is in order? Shepard seems like a really good pick.
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Bleacher Report: A-
CBS Sports: C+ (Pete Prisco isn't "sold" on Darnold)
NFL.com: B
SB Nation: B
Sports Illustrated: B+
Sporting News: C
Walter Football: B-
USA Today: A-
PFF: Elite (their top grade)
Yahoo Sports: C+
RotoWorld: A-

I discount the CBS Sports grade because Pete Prisco is a dumbass. The rest are fine, though obviously not all are coming from people with any real background in the NFL. With that said, I definitely think it's a B/B+ draft. If you love Darnold it becomes A- territory.
 
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nyr2k2 said:
Bleacher Report: A-
CBS Sports: C+ (Pete Prisco isn't "sold" on Darnold)
NFL.com: B
SB Nation: B
Sports Illustrated: B+
Sporting News: C
Walter Football: B-
USA Today: A-
PFF: Elite (their top grade)
Yahoo Sports: C+
RotoWorld: A-

I discount the CBS Sports grade because Pete Prisco is a dumbass. The rest are fine, though obviously not all are coming from people with any real background in the NFL. With that said, I definitely think it's a B/B+ draft. If you love Darnold it becomes A- territory.
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Play it like the Olympics. Remove the highest and the lowest ;)
 
Hunter Gathers said:
Some very good news for the off-season is that Flowers just hired Drew Rosenhaus.

I have to think Drew, who works off commission and has a good relationship with the Giants, reached out to him with all of his troubles his offseason.

Very interesting. Drew only makes money if Flowers improves. He’s not doing charity work, so I don’t see a negative with this news.
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also, worst comes to worst, we just cut his ass.
 
I don't know how this fell under my radar but I just realized Weston Richburg is a 49er. Lame.

Solder - Hernandez - Jones - Jerry - Flowers

I mean... it's better than it has been?
 
silverfish said:
I don't know how this fell under my radar but I just realized Weston Richburg is a 49er. Lame.

Solder - Hernandez - Jones - Jerry - Flowers

I mean... it's better than it has been?
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Much better. Jones was better than Richburg last season, so I'm not sad that we lost him in free agençy. BTW I think Jerry will be on the bench, we signed a G from Jacksonville.
 
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