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OT: 2018 Football Thread: Camp is (almost) here!!!!!

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I've heard through reports that the previous offensive coordinator completely ignored Hack and that Hack was given very little coaching. If you have a 2nd invested in this kid and you tradedup to get him, then how could you let your coaching staff be that inept if you're the GM?

Kid doesn't work to improve, kid's got an attitude, fine. But if it's true the coaches literally ignored him then that gives me even less confidence in Mac and Bowles. I bet you everyone from Kraft to Belichick to the hot dog vendor is aware of what is going on in NE. I'm confident Jimmy G wasn't "ignored completely"

Hope this was just a symptom of misplaced trust and a lesson learned (by Bowles and Mac who didn't keep tabs on the assistants as much as they should have)...or a false report maybe even released by hack to make public excuses anonymously
 
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I have a really hard time believing they just ignored him. If they were just going to ignore him, they wouldn't have kept him around, sitting idly by making the organization look foolish for ever choosing him. It just doesn't make sense. Why keep him on the team if you've decided he's not worth a roster spot (which is what you're saying if you decide to stop coaching a guy)? Even terribly-run teams don't keep guys on the roster just for shits and giggles.

Who else other than Hack himself said that he was ignored by the coaching staff?
 
nyr2k2 said:
I have a really hard time believing they just ignored him. If they were just going to ignore him, they wouldn't have kept him around, sitting idly by making the organization look foolish for ever choosing him. It just doesn't make sense. Why keep him on the team if you've decided he's not worth a roster spot (which is what you're saying if you decide to stop coaching a guy)? Even terribly-run teams don't keep guys on the roster just for ****s and giggles.

Who else other than Hack himself said that he was ignored by the coaching staff?
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Yup. That's why i said

"Hope this was just a symptom of misplaced trust and a lesson learned (by Bowles and Mac who didn't keep tabs on the assistants as much as they should have)...or a false report maybe even released by hack to make public excuses anonymously."

We've seen Rex reportedly ignore offense completely and reports came out that bowles did the same thing. I wish it was a lot more improbable then it is based on recent history.

I have no clue who said what that's why i said that false report bit. My version of saying "I take it with a grain of salt"

https://nypost.com/2018/01/01/hackenberg-sitting-to-end-a-joke-and-jets-and-bowles-are-clowns/

You can find a lot of articles in this vein. Too many.

Of course there's a lot of editorializing in there but several quotes and facts don't paint a good picture. I try to assume a lot of quotes are fibs to lighten the truth...example: despite watching him in practice everyday for two years "We don't know if he can play or not" instead of "He hasn't improved much and still sucks complete ass"
 
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shinchanuuhh said:
I thought for sure one of Rosen or Mayfield would be there at 6 (which happened). They had to have been going to for one of those two. Which is why I HAAAAATED that trade.

But I think they lucked into the perfect pick for them (making it worth it by accident) thanks to Cleveland having what might go down as the worst draft botch of all time. That's heavy to say considering guys like Russell and Leaf. But I say that bc I am combining who they passed over at 1 and who they passed over at 4 with the fact they turned down that Jets trade
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Cleveland did light years better than Buffalo.

Allen will be a backup in 3 years and Mayfield will be a legit NFL QB, and perhaps more.
 
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chosen said:
Cleveland did light years better than Buffalo.

Allen will be a backup in 3 years and Mayfield will be a legit NFL QB, and perhaps more.
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I tend to agree.

Not to mention, they could have just kept their pick last year and taken Mahomes or Watson. But I’m glad they didn’t. :D
 
chosen said:
Cleveland did light years better than Buffalo.

Allen will be a backup in 3 years and Mayfield will be a legit NFL QB, and perhaps more.
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Months ago I was joking Buffalo would be the team stupid enough to trade up to get Allen. I never imagined that the reality would paint them as even more idiotic bc Rosen was still on the board
 
Hunter Gathers said:
I'd take Allen over Rosen. Buffalo did very well.
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I agree it's possible that Allen will end up being better. I just really doubt it. I also think Buffalo was the only team left that would take Allen over Rosen. meaning they could've waited longer and traded less value and still got their guy. Again, totally not anything I can say with evidence but that's my thoughts after looking at the talents and thinking about the teams.
 
Hunter Gathers said:
I'd take Allen over Rosen. Buffalo did very well.
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Totally disagree. I think Allen has bust written all over him. Very comparable to Kyle Boller IMO.

The only concern I have with Rosen is his health, which is a completely fair red flag, but if in 5 years he wound up becoming the best QB in this draft I wouldn't be surprised in the least bit.
 
LionsHeart said:
Totally disagree. I think Allen has bust written all over him. Very comparable to Kyle Boller IMO.

The only concern I have with Rosen is his health, which is a completely fair red flag, but if in 5 years he wound up becoming the best QB in this draft I wouldn't be surprised in the least bit.
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The great thing about where Rosen went is Arizona didn't have to give up the farm to get him. He basically fell into their laps. If he doesn't work out he didn't set the franchise back that much. If he becomes the best QB in the draft (or even one of the better ones) people will be asking how he went so late. Gotta love the pick if you're the Cards.
 
I agree with the poster above. Even as a Jets fan who is now a Darnold homer, I fully expect Rosen to be the best QB from this draft assuming good health.
 
LionsHeart said:
Totally disagree. I think Allen has bust written all over him. Very comparable to Kyle Boller IMO.

The only concern I have with Rosen is his health, which is a completely fair red flag, but if in 5 years he wound up becoming the best QB in this draft I wouldn't be surprised in the least bit.
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Allen’s ceiling is on a completely different level than Rosen’s. Rosen is a safe bet to be a good starter. Allen has superstar potential.

You can disagree all you want, but Allen went above Rosen for a reason. His upside is quite a bit higher than Rosen’s. His floor is lower for sure.
 
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shinchanuuhh said:
I agree it's possible that Allen will end up being better. I just really doubt it. I also think Buffalo was the only team left that would take Allen over Rosen. meaning they could've waited longer and traded less value and still got their guy. Again, totally not anything I can say with evidence but that's my thoughts after looking at the talents and thinking about the teams.
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To me, Allen’s form improvements from the end of his year to the Senior Bowl to his Pro Day was nothing short of incredible. You don’t find refinement in a player like that in a short amount of time . . . well . . . ever. We can talk about how a Pro Day is meaningless, but it’s not when your evaluating how a guy throws off his feet.

Allen’s trick was always whether he could get his accuracy more in line and his entire throwing motion was hindered by how he placed his feet. He apparently went into the offseason knowing this and made it his life’s work at the time to fix.

That he showed he could fix it was massive.

He’s a polarizing player, no doubt. But little things like that go really far with evaluating a guy.
 
Hunter Gathers said:
To me, Allen’s form improvements from the end of his year to the Senior Bowl to his Pro Day was nothing short of incredible. You don’t find refinement in a player like that in a short amount of time . . . well . . . ever. We can talk about how a Pro Day is meaningless, but it’s not when your evaluating how a guy throws off his feet.

Allen’s trick was always whether he could get his accuracy more in line and his entire throwing motion was hindered by how he placed his feet. He apparently went into the offseason knowing this and made it his life’s work at the time to fix.

That he showed he could fix it was massive.

He’s a polarizing player, no doubt. But little things like that go really far with evaluating a guy.
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Inaccurate QBs seldom become good QBs. Let's see him do it under pressure. That said, his Pro Day was masterful. His arm is a thing of beauty.
 
nyrage said:
Inaccurate QBs seldom become good QBs. Let's see him do it under pressure. That said, his Pro Day was masterful. His arm is a thing of beauty.
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I didn’t disagree. However, completely reworking your throwing in the matter people think you need to do also seldom happens. I’d say it’s even more seldom to see something like that reworked so quickly.
 
We all just had a back and forth where we all disagreed but did so without making blatantly dishonest points. Some of us even used EVIDENCE to back up our ideas or admitted if we lacked it. Amazing. Frame this convo on the wall HF. There are times I thought "Man Allen could be a pro bowler easy" and others I thought "He will simply fail to develop and end up being a part of some miserably under performing offenses before becoming a career backup"
 
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