Prospect Info: 2018/19 Marlies & Prospects Thread Part VI

[Mr Hockey]

The Leafs will lose Gordeev/McGregor rights and they will go back into the draft this summer if the Leafs don't offer them an ELC, I believe.

 

[horner]

If the Leafs fell that he won't be good enough to play d.
With his speed and size , he might be better playing forward.
You would hate to give up on his size.

He has played as a forward before.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

Honestly Prince Albert looked gassed.

They had to knock off the 5th, 3rd, and 2nd best teams in the WHL in consecutive rounds including a game 7 in the finals.

Then they had to turn around and fly across the country in 2 and a half days and get right back to playing against teams they really couldn't keep that rush going against.

Prince Albert is a big team and they looked slow against the other teams.

I like what I see from Gordeev

Scott can’t win every series. Look at the goals against most he has no chance on

 

[SprDaVE]

The Leafs will lose Gordeev/McGregor rights and they will go back into the draft this summer if the Leafs don't offer them an ELC, I believe.

You are correct.

McGregor was on an ATO with the Marlies, looked okay in his a few games but then was released from that ATO. I wouldn't expect an ELC for him but I would say that there's a chance they will sign him to an AHL contract if he doesn't get drafted or signed to an ELC by someone else.

As for Gordeev, I would be surprised if he earned an ELC as well. I like the tools he has but the toolbox seems to be completely missing.

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

In my viewings I wasn't impressed with Gordeev at all. I'd be surprised if he got an ELC but you never know.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I wish Durzi was still I Leaf so I could see how different the conversation about him by non-Leaf fans would be on the main board.

 

[nuck]

Honestly Prince Albert looked gassed.

They had to knock off the 5th, 3rd, and 2nd best teams in the WHL in consecutive rounds including a game 7 in the finals.

Then they had to turn around and fly across the country in 2 and a half days and get right back to playing against teams they really couldn't keep that rush going against.

They were talking on the Edmonton TSN about how poorly the WHL clubs have done in the MC. Something like 13 straight losses to the WHL champions. A possible theory is there just aren't enough players to feed 22 teams. The US states aren't producing enough high end Juniors in the west to make up for the 3 million greater population Ontario has over the western Provinces, plus more Atlantic Province athletes stay east and there are two fewer teams to feed. If the WHL contracted by even 2 teams the level of play would go up right across the board. You can't discount the travel but this happens even when the MC is in the west.

 

[Knies iT]

I think he follows in the footsteps of Middleton, Mattinen and Desrocher as big guys who were trimmed from the herd. Good prospects, but not ELC ready talent. Middleton got an AHL deal and Mattinen will probably get an AHL deal this summer after a great overage season. Desrocher went to a Canadian University. Gordeev on an ELC in the AHL for 3 full years doesn't seem worth the contract spot. I don't think he has NHL upside. They have until the 1st to sign him.

McGregor is the most productive forward from the unsigned crop of draft picks league wide this season, Gordeev isn't close. He also was prominent in the coaches poll, alternate captain for two years, captain this year and improved a great deal this season. I am more confident he will at least be a solid AHL contributer and maintain positive value to other NHL teams. He is a center and the Marlies only have Brooks and Engvall at center there with them potentially departing to the Leafs soon. He's better defensively than he is offensively. I think it makes more sense to sign him than not too. But, time is not on his side and he was released from his ATO.

I'm only getting my first real look at Gordeev during Guelph's run so maybe i'm missing something, but having seen Middleton in the AHL I can confidently say they're not close talent wise; Fedor's a better skater and more skilled across the board. Also was not impressed with McGregor at all during his short stint with the Marlies, he's a vanilla player with no pro attributes whatsoever.

Out of curiosity, why don't you see NHL upside with Gordeev? He has comparable numbers to Carlo in the CHL and better numbers than past guys like Cernak and Edmundson, who are of similar playing style. He's put up .5PPG this year, which is a decent bottom line barometer for an NHL future. Guys like Logan Stanley and Kevin Bahl went in the late 1st-2nd round with similar point production. Pretty sure Gordeev's NHLe is comparable to Manson and Mayfield in college also, but its difficult to compare cross-league.

I think its hard to evaluate guys like Gordeev purely based on point production. Most of the guys i've named have gone on to carve out key roles as shutdown specialists despite lack lustre junior production, and it looks as if that breed of large, mobile defensemen is resurrecting in the new league. May not mean much because people have soured on Rasanen, but having just seen him with the Marlies too, Gordeev is faster in every direction and makes a quicker first pass under pressure. Watching Gordeev, I absolutely see NHL potential outside of his offensive game.

I think Gordeev will get an ELC and it will surprise some people.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I wish Durzi was still I Leaf so I could see how different the conversation about him by non-Leaf fans would be on the main board.

I still find it funny that he's half a year older than Liljegren playing juniors while Liljegren is dominating in his second year pro and people want to say "herp derp Kings chose Durzi, Liljegren is a bust".

 

[LeafChief]

I still find it funny that he's half a year older than Liljegren playing juniors while Liljegren is dominating in his second year pro and people want to say "herp derp Kings chose Durzi, Liljegren is a bust".

Some of our own 'fans' want to believe this.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

They were talking on the Edmonton TSN about how poorly the WHL clubs have done in the MC. Something like 13 straight losses to the WHL champions. A possible theory is there just aren't enough players to feed 22 teams. The US states aren't producing enough high end Juniors in the west to make up for the 3 million greater population Ontario has over the western Provinces, plus more Atlantic Province athletes stay east and there are two fewer teams to feed. If the WHL contracted by even 2 teams the level of play would go up right across the board. You can't discount the travel but this happens even when the MC is in the west.

WHL teams also haven't loaded up at the deadline like most teams do in the OHL and QMJHL these days either. Guelph basically added half a team at the deadline with Durzi,Suzuki, Entwistle, Gordeev, Phillips etc.. and all the Raiders did was add Hannoun at their deadline.

 

[Magic Man]

You are correct.

McGregor was on an ATO with the Marlies, looked okay in his a few games but then was released from that ATO. I wouldn't expect an ELC for him but I would say that there's a chance they will sign him to an AHL contract if he doesn't get drafted or signed to an ELC by someone else.

As for Gordeev, I would be surprised if he earned an ELC as well. I like the tools he has but the toolbox seems to be completely missing.

If I was McGregor I'd go back to junior for my overage season instead of leaving for pro early. McGregor would wear the C again and push for more success one last time. He is bound to improve next season and he probably won't reduce his chances at an AHL deal. If there is no ELC or redraft this summer, try again next off-season for an ELC and if not take the AHL deal. If his pro career is a short one, that final season in junior accomplishing new feats will be a memorable one and it extends his career a year.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

They were talking on the Edmonton TSN about how poorly the WHL clubs have done in the MC. Something like 13 straight losses to the WHL champions. A possible theory is there just aren't enough players to feed 22 teams. The US states aren't producing enough high end Juniors in the west to make up for the 3 million greater population Ontario has over the western Provinces, plus more Atlantic Province athletes stay east and there are two fewer teams to feed. If the WHL contracted by even 2 teams the level of play would go up right across the board. You can't discount the travel but this happens even when the MC is in the west.

I think there is more WHL talent than QMJHL talent, at least depth-wise. Even with two fewer teams, a lot of QMJHL teams need Ontario born players to fill out their roster depth, and over half of the QMJHL are guys who are 2nd year eligible (including some who are drafted quite early). WHL teams aren't getting anyone from OHL teams, and they don't draft OA's. Plus they have a lot more guys who are good enough to go to the NCAA, and in some cases not even enough spots to give guys who are good enough to go this route.

I don't think it is really that abnormal. The past 15 years, 5/15 were from the QMJHL, 4/15 were from the WHL and 6/15 were from the OHL. 5/15 were the hosts. In terms of runner-ups, 6/15 were from the WHL, 5/15 were from the OHL, 4/15 were from the QMJHL. I'd say that is pretty even. WHL teams have made the finals quite often in recent years, but just haven't won.

Personally, I think the problem with Prince Albert is that they were an overachieving team which had a ton of depth who were consistently hitting on all cylinders, but in terms of high end talent, they were by far the worst. Scott was easily their best player all year and carried them to their success. We have a lot to be excited about with him. Compared to the other teams though, Prince Albert lacked the high end talent to really compete.

 

[hullsy47]

I wish Durzi was still I Leaf so I could see how different the conversation about him by non-Leaf fans would be on the main board.

I donna I assuming I mean comparing him to liligren
Lilly is better right now

 

[MyBudJT]

As for Gordeev, I would be surprised if he earned an ELC as well. I like the tools he has but the toolbox seems to be completely missing.

Just wondering what you're basing this on. How many games have you watched Gordeev play?

 

[SprDaVE]

Just wondering what you're basing this on. How many games have you watched Gordeev play?

Since drafted? At least 6 times live and a bunch of other times on TV.

Why does it matter anyway?

 

[MyBudJT]

Since drafted? At least 6 times live and a bunch of other times on TV.

Why does it matter anyway?

Because a large contingent of people here judge prospects based on their stats, and don't watch them play. I don't know how anyone can suggest he doesn't have the toolbox if they just look at the stats. If they have watched him play a decent sample of games, then I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[SprDaVE]

Because a large contingent of people here judge prospects based on their stats, and don't watch them play. I don't know how anyone can suggest he doesn't have the toolbox if they just look at the stats. If they have watched him play a decent sample of games, then I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.

In this case, I'd say it's fair to say his stats line matches the missing toolbox.

I'd sign him but I can understand the Leafs likely feel very different about that.

 

[horner]

Because a large contingent of people here judge prospects based on their stats, and don't watch them play. I don't know how anyone can suggest he doesn't have the toolbox if they just look at the stats. If they have watched him play a decent sample of games, then I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.

With that size, skating and age you have him in your system for a couple of yrs.

 

[deletethis]

Go no further than the St. Louis Blues and Boston Bruins to find a few large NHL defensemen who produced at 19/20 in the CHL comparably to Gordeev: Bortuzzo, Edmundson, Chara, Carlo. So there's no reason to eliminate the player on paper.

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

Go no further than the St. Louis Blues and Boston Bruins to find a few large NHL defensemen who produced at 19/20 in the CHL comparably to Gordeev: Bortuzzo, Edmundson, Chara, Carlo. So there's no reason to eliminate the player on paper.

This is just my own personal opinion but every time I've had viewings of Gordeev live I've come away underwhelmed. I don't find him assertive defensively despite his size, I don't find his skating which generally draws a lot of praise to be nearly as good as people seem to perceive and his puck skills/coordination and passing/puck movement I find lacking. I don't think he'll get an ELC but I wouldn't be surprised if he does just to keep him in the organization and give him more time as he is a type of player that we lack in the organization in general.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Gordeev is a great skater for a big man, but he's also kind of all over the place. It can make him look great at times but more often than not he's in really bad position.

He doesn't play a smart game at all and relies on his size for a lot of things. If we feel we could get that straightened out then he's a no brainer for an ELC. If we feel he can't then back to the draft you go.

 

[ManosArriba]

It would be a mistake letting Macgregor go, he looked solid at the pro level with no adjustment time (didnt practice with team before getting thrown in the line up). He has a good two way game, not flashy but solid, exactly what we need in the pipeline with our lack of center depth. I believe he has NHL upside.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It would be a mistake letting Macgregor go, he looked solid at the pro level with no adjustment time (didnt practice with team before getting thrown in the line up). He has a good two way game, not flashy but solid, exactly what we need in the pipeline with our lack of center depth. I believe he has NHL upside.

I'd sign McGregor before Gordeev. I'm on the fence with Gordeev in terms of an ELC, but I'd give McGregor one. I'd obviously try AHL deals first though, but neither would be bad on ELC's. We are talking about guys who are going to rotate in on the 4th line (with Conrad) or 3rd pairing (although maybe not often) so we can afford to take our time with them. Plus we aren't desperate for contract spots or anything.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I haven't heard anything on Gordeev.

Take it with a grain of salt but heard they're leaning towards no ELC for Ryan McGregor. I am going to paraphrase the next little bit but they feel they can sign 4th line centres or ahl centres pretty cheap and don't think much of his upside.

I think they should sign him because guys on AHL deals can't come up etc. A *good* 4th line centre does have some value.