Prospect Info: 2018/19 Marlies & Prospects Thread Part V

[LeafChief]

I like that we have both Liljegren and Sandin.

Not sure why we're arguing between the two of them. We literally have both.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I like that we have both Liljegren and Sandin.

Not sure why we're arguing between the two of them. We literally have both.

People have weird hate for our own guys for some reason.

Liljegren is the better all-round player, Sandin is the better offensive player. Both are logging top pair minutes in the AHL as teenagers.

They'll both probably be top 4 players for us, let's just enjoy them.

 

[BertCorbeau]

People have weird hate for our own guys for some reason.

Liljegren is the better all-round player, Sandin is the better offensive player. Both are logging top pair minutes in the AHL as teenagers.

They'll both probably be top 4 players for us, let's just enjoy them.

Exactly and the Leafs don't exactly need an offensive d-man anyway. Lily's point totals shouldn't matter that much so long as he's solid in his own end and can move the puck through the neutral zone using his skill/skating on breakouts or in transition.

That will be extremely valuable

 

[deletethis]

Learn to read properly, and stop cherrypicking clips to support a narrative.

Your reaction was way over the top. You need to get over this impulse to attack. Even if it's some outrageous opinion or some passive aggressive comment, it's still just words. Do you think I'm going to make less comments as a result of your behaviour? I'll say whatever I want to say.

 

[deletethis]

It was a big leap of faith dressing both Hollowell and Duszak in Game 2. It's fair to say that Rochester carried the play on home ice with no results.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

It was a big leap of faith dressing both Hollowell and Duszak in Game 2. It's fair to say that Rochester carried the play on home ice with no results.

Kind of weird that we dressed 5 RHD in that game, but Sandin and Borgman really are the only decent LD options at this point.

 

[LeafChief]

Can anyone comment on how Hollowell looked?

 

[stickty111]

Can anyone comment on how Hollowell looked?

This tweet probably explains it.

Duszak was also good.

 

[aingefan]

This tweet probably explains it.

Duszak was also good.

Pretty excellent to see both guys getting playoff burn.
SeaofBlue commented some doubt they’d get much action, given the veteran depth on the right side. Made sense. Kudos to coach Keefe.
Seeing Krug’s impact in these playoffs has to be a benchmark for both these guys.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Pretty excellent to see both guys getting playoff burn.
SeaofBlue commented some doubt they’d get much action, given the veteran depth on the right side. Made sense. Kudos to coach Keefe.
Seeing Krug’s impact in these playoffs has to be a benchmark for both these guys.

Well I did not expect Keefe to put Hollowell on his off-side (especially in his first pro game, which is an important playoff game)and Duszak as the 7th defenseman. I thought if he put anyone on their off side, it would have been Subban, since that is what he did all of this year. He also rarely, if ever, put 7D in a game. Good on him for being creative and ballsy. Conrad and Rubins are solid guys, but if you can figure out a way to get better guys in there, by all means.

Also, TBH, I haven't been overly impressed with Krug in these playoffs. Obviously he's doing some stuff offensively, but I think we have the beat on most of Boston's defenders.

 

[stickty111]

Here are the playoff series for our prospects, and their stats in the series and entire playoffs.
Updated Saturday April 20th

Games today
Game 3: Guelph wins 5-2
Saginaw leads 2-1
Gordeev 1 assist


Liiga
Finals: Karpat(2) vs HPK(5)
Karpat leads 1-0
Jesper Lindgren
Series:
GP 1 Goals Assists Points
Playoffs:
GP 12 Goals 1 Assists 2 Points 3
Regular season:
GP: 45 Goals: 2 Assists: 17 Points: 19

OHL
2nd round: Saginaw(1) vs Guelph(4)
Saginaw leads 2-1
Fedor Gordeev
Series:
GP 3 Goals Assists 1 Points 1
Playoffs:
GP 14 Goals 1 Assists 1 Points 2
Regular season:
GP: 63 Goals: 7 Assists: 25 Points: 32

WHL
3rd round: Prince Albert(1) vs Edmonton(1)
Series tied 1-1
Ian Scott
Series:
GP 2 SV% .929 GAA 1.92 SO 1
Playoffs:
GP 12 SV% .928 GAA 1.79 SO 2
Regular season:
GP: 49 SV%: .932 GAA: 1.83 SO: 8

3rd round: Vancouver(1) vs Spokane(2)
Vancouver leads 2-0
Filip Kral
Series:
GP 2 Goals Assists Points
Playoffs:
GP 12 Goals Assists 2 Points 2
Regular season:
GP: 47 Goals: 10 Assists: 26 Points: 36

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

What a year for Scott so far...

Regular season: 5th lowest GAA ever, 4th highest SV% ever.

Playoff Pace: 4th lowest GAA ever, 10th highest SV% ever for goalies with at least 10 games played.

 

[Randy Randerson]

What a year for Scott so far...

Regular season: 5th lowest GAA ever, 4th highest SV% ever.

Playoff Pace: 4th lowest GAA ever, 10th highest SV% ever for goalies with at least 10 games played.

is that in the WHL or CHL?

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

is that in the WHL or CHL?

WHL only.

It's hard to compare the 3 leagues, you would have to find a way to adjust everything to a mean for each year and then compare year to year for all three.

 

[4thline]

There will be D out of the 8 2017 drafted D who played 20+ games in AHL who do not make the NHL as regulars or who play 6/7. There always are. Saying that there is a likelihood that the least productive of the 8 will be a 6/7 is not reactionary, it is something that everyone here would recognize as likely if he were not a Leafs prospects.

It isn't grading a prospect against the bluechip curve to say that he was 8th among 8 D from his draft class in PPG in the AHL this season. 3 of those players were taken in the 3 spots ahead of him and the rest after him by as many of 70 picks. That is grading him against his peers - peers who every poster on here at the beginning of the season would have said Liljegren would blow them away numbers-wise (with the except of Brannstrom). And if Liljegren had put up, say double the PPG that he did, the same people who are saying his PPG don't matter would be claiming it is the most important thing.

We are not talking about a player who played high school and then went to the NCAA who should be expected to have a lot of development ahead of him. We are talking about a player who has two years in the SHL and two years in the AHL under his belt. Carrick had played 34 games in the NHL by the time he was Liljegren's age. Carrick remains a 6/7 D.​

No, we're talking about a former riverboat gambler that used to exploit lower competition with pure skill and athletic ability that was expected to have a lot of development infront of them.

Using all 8 D is an error. There is a big difference in playing in the A at U20 vs. U21. Statistically Liljegren still tracks well, comparing similarly over two years to Voynov (a top 4 d) and this year to Suter and Burns (top pair d) as well as a bunch of nobodies. There's bust potential. That's not the same as "likely nothing more than a 6/7.

He's slowed down. Brannstrom has distanced himself, Joker and Vaak have caught up/.passed. He's looking less and less like a Shattenkirk/ Carlson and more like a Daley/Gardiner hybrid. But he still projects as a top 4 D.

Writing off a guy that's playing like he is in the AHL at his age (that still tracks well relative to past cohorts) because a couple of other guys are exceeding expectations is definitely reactionary.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Carrick had played 34 games in the NHL by the time he was Liljegren's age. Carrick remains a 6/7 D.

Carrick also should not have been playing those games. He was terrible.

We could have put Liljegren in the NHL last year if we wanted and he probably could have done as well as Carrick did in those 34 games. Anybody can play in the NHL, but it doesn't mean they are ready for the NHL. We decided to value Liljegren's progression rather than being stupid and rushing a guy who was clearly not ready, like Washington did with Carrick. The next year Carrick spent the entire time in the AHL. The year after, he played in 3 NHL games before coming to the Leafs, who then played him in 16 more games (mostly because we played any half decent looking prospect and had pretty much no one else to play RD).

I'm not going to comment on the rest of your post, but I'm just going to say that referencing Carrick as a "comparable" is not helping your case. By that logic, Brannstrom also sucks because he has only played 2 NHL games by his D+2 year (vs. Carrick's 34) and has not put up amazing production (32 points in 50 games) for a guy who is far more offensive-minded defenseman than Liljegren (or Carrick for that matter). I would also say that if we treated Liljegren like an offensive-defenseman rather than developing him into someone who is useful to the Leafs going forward (i.e. someone who can handle more than just cushy offensive minutes and PP time), his production and surface numbers would probably look a lot better than they do right now. We decided to give him a real challenge, which many other teams do not do with prospects his age in the AHL, and he's handled it well. If other teams did the same thing we did with Liljegren, I bet the gap wouldn't look as large as it does right now.

 

[stickty111]

No, we're talking about a former riverboat gambler that used to exploit lower competition with pure skill and athletic ability that was expected to have a lot of development infront of them.

Using all 8 D is an error. There is a big difference in playing in the A at U20 vs. U21. Statistically Liljegren still tracks well, comparing similarly over two years to Voynov (a top 4 d) and this year to Suter and Burns (top pair d) as well as a bunch of nobodies. There's bust potential. That's not the same as "likely nothing more than a 6/7.

He's slowed down. Brannstrom has distanced himself, Joker and Vaak have caught up/.passed. He's looking less and less like a Shattenkirk/ Carlson and more like a Daley/Gardiner hybrid. But he still projects as a top 4 D.

Writing off a guy that's playing like he is in the AHL at his age (that still tracks well relative to past cohorts) because a couple of other guys are exceeding expectations is definitely reactionary.

Carrick also should not have been playing those games. He was terrible.

We could have put Liljegren in the NHL last year if we wanted and he probably could have done as well as Carrick did in those 34 games. Anybody can play in the NHL, but it doesn't mean they are ready for the NHL. We decided to value Liljegren's progression rather than being stupid and rushing a guy who was clearly not ready, like Washington did with Carrick. The next year Carrick spent the entire time in the AHL. The year after, he played in 3 NHL games before coming to the Leafs, who then played him in 16 more games (mostly because we played any half decent looking prospect and had pretty much no one else to play RD).

I'm not going to comment on the rest of your post, but I'm just going to say that referencing Carrick as a "comparable" is not helping your case. By that logic, Brannstrom also sucks because he has only played 2 NHL games by his D+2 year (vs. Carrick's 34) and has not put up amazing production (32 points in 50 games) for a guy who is far more offensive-minded defenseman than Liljegren (or Carrick for that matter). I would also say that if we treated Liljegren like an offensive-defenseman rather than developing him into someone who is useful to the Leafs going forward (i.e. someone who can handle more than just cushy offensive minutes and PP time), his production and surface numbers would probably look a lot better than they do right now. We decided to give him a real challenge, which many other teams do not do with prospects his age in the AHL, and he's handled it well. If other teams did the same thing we did with Liljegren, I bet the gap wouldn't look as large as it does right now.

Quoted for truth. Some people just don't understand development.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Carrick also should not have been playing those games. He was terrible.

We could have put Liljegren in the NHL last year if we wanted and he probably could have done as well as Carrick did in those 34 games. Anybody can play in the NHL, but it doesn't mean they are ready for the NHL. We decided to value Liljegren's progression rather than being stupid and rushing a guy who was clearly not ready, like Washington did with Carrick. The next year Carrick spent the entire time in the AHL. The year after, he played in 3 NHL games before coming to the Leafs, who then played him in 16 more games (mostly because we played any half decent looking prospect and had pretty much no one else to play RD).

I'm not going to comment on the rest of your post, but I'm just going to say that referencing Carrick as a "comparable" is not helping your case. By that logic, Brannstrom also sucks because he has only played 2 NHL games by his D+2 year (vs. Carrick's 34) and has not put up amazing production (32 points in 50 games) for a guy who is far more offensive-minded defenseman than Liljegren (or Carrick for that matter). I would also say that if we treated Liljegren like an offensive-defenseman rather than developing him into someone who is useful to the Leafs going forward (i.e. someone who can handle more than just cushy offensive minutes and PP time), his production and surface numbers would probably look a lot better than they do right now. We decided to give him a real challenge, which many other teams do not do with prospects his age in the AHL, and he's handled it well. If other teams did the same thing we did with Liljegren, I bet the gap wouldn't look as large as it does right now.

Quoted for truth. Some people just don't understand development.

Have a couple likes. Love how they've developed Lilly and Sandin, and Dermott and Rosen for that matter.

 

[FreeBird]

Kind of weird that we dressed 5 RHD in that game, but Sandin and Borgman really are the only decent LD options at this point.

Pesce is playing the LS even though he's a Right Shot.

 

[OHLFan90]

Brazeau wins the O/A player of the year award for the OHL!

Brazeau Wins Overage Player Of The Year - The OHL Collective

 

[Macallan18]

I like that we have both Liljegren and Sandin.

Not sure why we're arguing between the two of them. We literally have both.

Because we can’t argue Bozek vs Kadri anymore?

 

[ManosArriba]

Growlers game for anyone wanting to watch before the Leaf game comes on.

 

[Fogelhund]

So, which of the Leafs can be sent down to the Marlies now?

 

[Faltorvo]

I don't think he is good enough. Would be a perfect 4th liner who can step up, but we would be in trouble if he had to replace Kadri as a 3C. He may be able to be a passable 4th line winger though, so if the Leafs don't deem Bracco ready, they could replace a Kadri by moving Nylander into the 3C spot and have Aaltonen and Moore compete to replace Nylander's wing spot in the top 9 (with the other on the 4th line). For that matter, they could have Carcone, Korshkov, Timashov, Petan, etc. compete for it too, but I would think two of Bracco, Aaltonen or Moore would probably win. The Leafs will probably also sign a couple of grittier players (i.e. Brouwer, DSP, Acciari, Carpenter, maybe McGinn, etc.) to enter the mix. Simmonds is an option too if he comes cheap enough. Some of those guys won't be good enough to make the team, but the Marlies will have room for their veteran leadership abilities and their toughness too.

The only thing about Aaltonen is that he is going to need a strong guarantee and likely an out-clause that'll allow him to go back to Vityaz if he doesn't make the roster. He's not going to stay in the AHL.

Aalton is a dead issue and we both know it, we don't need anymore "small skill" we need guys so desperate to stay or get into the bigs that they will eat glass to get there

we have too many players that think WAAAAAYYYYY to high of themselves.

this will be the second season in a row where we will have to "thin" our roster due to individual salary demands and we still have not won a single PO series.

 

[aingefan]

So, which of the Leafs can be sent down to the Marlies now?

Gotta be Marincin and Rosen.

Not sure if TMoore can go.