WC: 2017 Team Finland

[FiLe]

I still don't get it how team filled with KHL/NHL players can't produce even against countries that are normally beaten by five goals.

I don't know where you've been the last decade, but unless you've got a roster with a pooton of NHLers, winning any country with five or more is more of a luxury these days.

These days the tier 2 countries are almost as good defensively as the Big Six ones, so the scores are close more often than not. It's the lack of offense they still lack somewhat that usually does them in. But not by blowouts.

 

[Binister]

I don't know where you've been the last decade, but unless you've got a roster with a pooton of NHLers, winning any country with five or more is more of a luxury these days.

These days the tier 2 countries are almost as good defensively as the Big Six ones, so the scores are close more often than not. It's the lack of offense they still lack somewhat that usually does them in. But not by blowouts.

Well that's how it is even in the NHL, any team can win in a given night. But still the roster is built in a wrong way, there ain't no hungry prospects this year to make themselves look good for NHL scouts. The team is more like tasteless with mixture of seasoned Skoda Cup veterans and few good players.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

I seriously think Finland should start bring more younger players to men's national team.
Finland's men's national teams generation change is coming in any case so would not it be better begin to invest in the future of Finland's men's national team.

It's really frustrating to watch those same old farts who gets slower and older year by year.
If Finnish hockey association decides fire Marjamäki very well then.

But who'll replace him there's no potential head coach candidates available.
Jussi Ahokas and Karri Kivi has chance to coach men's national team near future. But not before season 2018-2019.

 

[StiffSquid]

Is this only me but does any agree of that Finland should start bring more younger players to men's national team.
Finland's men's national teams rebuild is coming anyway and nothing won't stop that.

It's really frustrating to watch those same old farts who gets slower and older year by year.
If Finnish hockey association decides fire Marjamäki very well then.

But who'll replace him there's no potential head coach candidates available.
Jussi Ahokas and Karri Kivi has chance to coach men's national team near future. But not before season 2018-2019.

I'm ready for the assignment. You can be the goalie coach. FiLe will master out the power play units. Few other posters can be cheerleaders. Instant Success.

 

[FiLe]

But still the roster is built in a wrong way, there ain't no hungry prospects this year to make themselves look good for NHL scouts.

I don't necessarily disagree with the general idea, but do you have any suggestions on names who might have fit this description?

 

[illone84]

Honestly, I think Finland's chances against USA are pretty decent.
I mean, I'm not expecting Finland to walk away with a decisive win, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if Finland gets to the semi-final.

On the other hand, Le Suisse could give Sweden all sorts of problems, so who knows!

 

[StiffSquid]

So the team lost to Czechs , France and Canada. They barely won against Belarus , Norway and Switzerland. Slovenia game was a bit more easy.

Win against US and the team has redeemed itself. Lose , and Marjis should get fired. Probably won't but he should. With no NHL players Finland should have a good chance to take that gold next year. Hopefully Marjis and co will deliver.

The only ones battling for that gold medal SHOULD be Russia Sweden Finland and Czechs

 

[Loffer]

Yeah, speaking about the realities, the one real reality is the one he has made himself by dispelling the high profile players from his reach. And that turns the reality in which he is trying to operate quite an impasse, not optimal situation, to say the least.

A wild guess, sudden hunch: You might also identify with mr. Berry Hill that strongly due to a simple or superficial resemblance with his coaching personality, meticulous approach, analytic tendencies, down tuned temperament etc. No offense. On the contrary just a general observation about biases of judgment we all have.

 

[rduck1]

If the fans were in charge, we'd have new coaches every two weeks... People get too emotionally invested and look for scapegoats when things don't go the way they want. It's honestly surprising to me that some people are even willing to accept the post, when surely they have better paying offers under more reasonable conditions available.

 

[Ippenator]

So the team lost to Czechs , France and Canada. They barely won against Belarus , Norway and Switzerland. Slovenia game was a bit more easy.

Win against US and the team has redeemed itself. Lose , and Marjis should get fired. Probably won't but he should. With no NHL players Finland should have a good chance to take that gold next year. Hopefully Marjis and co will deliver.

The only ones battling for that gold medal SHOULD be Russia Sweden Finland and Czechs

I can absolutely guarantee that as long as Marjamäki is the coach for our national team, we will have absolutely zero chances of fighting for the olympic gold. With or without NHL players. Another completely wasted year for the Finnish national team, if Mr. Käkkäri will seriously get to continue even one more year.

 

[Ippenator]

If the fans were in charge, we'd have new coaches every two weeks... People get too emotionally invested and look for scapegoats when things don't go the way they want. It's honestly surprising to me that some people are even willing to accept the post, when surely they have better paying offers under more reasonable conditions available.

It's called ambition or even love for your country over pure greed. You know not every single human being is full of greed, even in the present world...

 

[FiLe]

And in that we need to remember what kind of pieces were available to Marjamäki...

This argument won't turn some heads, because they think it's his own fault. Every player who declined for some reason that isn't easily discernible, it was really because they can't stand Marjamäki. It's naturally guesswork rather than hard fact, but apparently staunch enough belief can make the former as good as the latter.

But even if it *is* true, this is actually another thing where very few coaches are completely hopeless. A coach can make amends as long as the disagreements are over coaching philosophy and not incompatible personalities.

And, furthermore, even if it is the latter, even that shouldn't be a huge issue. Because pro players if any should be used to dealing with bench bosses they don't come along with. They've all had those over their careers. Most more than one.

 

[Lataba76]

I don t know how this finnish team could beat US? It s still impossible! I hope US isn t merciless and they have a hug for Finns . I m satisfied if the Finns loss 0:3 or 1:4. This is a good result !

 

[StiffSquid]

If the fans were in charge, we'd have new coaches every two weeks... People get too emotionally invested and look for scapegoats when things don't go the way they want. It's honestly surprising to me that some people are even willing to accept the post, when surely they have better paying offers under more reasonable conditions available.

Yeah probably not the best job on Earth LOL. On the other hand if you're not emotionally invested in the hockey then why are you watching it? I don't love watching ugly ass dudes skating around the rink , trying to analyze all their moves and mistakes. I love to watch hockey because of the feeling I get when my team wins. And damn I hate it when my team loses. All emotion LOL

 

[FiLe]

I can absolutely guarantee that as long as Marjamäki is the coach for our national team, we will have absolutely zero chances of fighting for the olympic gold.

Because there really is zero chance that Marjamäki will learn anything from this experience, this season as a whole, and make some amends?

That's one pretty gosh darn narrow minded stance, sorry for saying.

 

[Ippenator]

This argument won't turn some heads, because they think it's his own fault. Every player who declined for some reason that isn't easily discernible, it was really because they can't stand Marjamäki. It's naturally guesswork rather than hard fact, but apparently staunch enough belief can make the former as good as the latter.

But even if it *is* true, this is actually another thing where very few coaches are completely hopeless. A coach can make amends as long as the disagreements are over coaching philosophy and not incompatible personalities.

And, furthermore, even if it is the latter, even that shouldn't be a huge issue. Because pro players if any should be used to dealing with bench bosses they don't come along with. They've all had those over their careers. Most more than one.

Here you sound like more on to something. But one thing is also that there has been some rumours going on of him having certain personality "trait/traits" (I'm not going to use the labelling name, as it is too often used by people as somekind of a sentence when it is mentioned) that make it just impossible for some people to really learn from these mistakes, as to this "trait" it is usually so that the person with it never makes mistakes, so why learn anything? This trait is officially a personality disorder and honestly I find it wrong to label people as having them, because it would in reality take a very qualified psychiatrist to even recognise it for sure.

I DO NOT claim that Mr. Käkkäri has this "trait", but it is still always worrying if even speculations like this start happening on anyone. Even if the speculation of the "trait" is not valid, the people who get speculated like this can usually be described as a-holes anyway. And that is not a very strong foundation for a national team's coach in the first place.

 

[sooni]

So you don`t knoe even Marjamäki and you are saying that he is Narsist. Dude that is really messed up. Every time when coach are building team in Finland he should take best players which are available. How many players do you see in this tournament from last years tournament, playing world cup and 82games nhl season??? Wake up.

 

[QnebO]

I'm ready for the assignment. You can be the goalie coach. FiLe will master out the power play units. Few other posters can be cheerleaders. Instant Success.

I need to be the emotional coach. I will rage at locker room if our period was bad, like throw the trash can to wall, throw the sticks and shoot to the roof with shotgun, tell them next play is to run their goalie and start a line brawl if we're losing with many goals, inspiring this team to play with full heart.

 

[Binister]

I don't necessarily disagree with the general idea, but do you have any suggestions on names who might have fit this description?

I know it's a long shot but here's what I was thinking to remvoe or add Finland's roster.

Goalies:

The goalies this year weren't elite. The biggest reason might be that Finland's regular number one Pekka Rinne is having a shot of his life with Preds. Then the others never want to come to the tournament, Rask and Lehtonen from the top category and I understand them completely. They don't owe anything to Finland, have showed how good they are and play a lot of games for their team. But what I would've wanted to see is what they did with Juuse Saros few times. I mean Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen played a solid season! Why not let him go with Finland? Surely Korpisalo would've been a completely different story last season when Bobrovsky was having an off season and Korpi stepped up his game and became almost Blue Jackets' number one goalie.

Defence

Haven't been Finland's strong point since Timonen, Numminen and last generations defenders retired. But Finland have their core on Ristolainen, Määttä and Vatanen. Two of them are playing for the Stanley and Ristolainen hasn't represented Finland at the World Championships since he was dropped of the team before the tournament. I understand him also, he is Sabres' number one defender and with Eichel their spine. He played 26:28 TOI average last season in 79 games. Julius Honka was a good pick, he is there just to clinch the spot at the Stars' roster and you can see why. But why not add more youth to the team? Urho Vaakanainen and Miro Heiskanen are a first round prospects this years draft, what could be better than showcase themselves at the men's tournament? Also Olli Juolevi continued where he left off with the Knights, the guy can roll the powerplay and look at where Finland suck this tournament... yep.

Forwards

The lack of scoring is an issue for Finland once again. They scored one goal at the World Cup and right now even in Skoda Cup they have the same issue. Yes they scored twice against Canada yesterday but they lost to a team who weren't even playing 100% and they have players who can score goals. Aho scored 24 and Rantanen won his team's goal scoring title with 20 goals. But still powerplay looks horrible and some skill and willingness is required. Kristian Vesalainen is a very promising goal scorer with Eeli Tolvanen both looking to be first round picks. The Skoda Cup veterans would've been very nice target to be replaced. And why not throw the winning rookie scorer Teemu Turunen there?

I mean many teams have done this now for years. Team USA does this all the time by sending college players and prospects. I think that this tournament is ideal for that, the scouts are there but they aren't looking for seasoned players whose NHL train went 10 years ago.

 

[QnebO]

Vesalainen would be useless here. He is not on that elite level as a prospect, he could barely be 2nd rounder or late 1st round, not ready yet.

On others, not commenting on any direction. Juolevi probably would outdo some defender in this team...

 

[sooni]

I need to be the emotional coach. I will rage at locker room if our period was bad, like throw the trash can to wall, throw the sticks and shoot to the roof with shotgun, tell them next play is to run their goalie and start a line brawl if we're losing with many goals, inspiring this team to play with full heart.

and after 7 games, at group stage our players are so tired that they can barely walk for the first QF match. Well who cares if we get medals, we just need to look good.

HELWild

It is not realistic to jump from the juniors to men´s world championship asap. Well there have been couple players which have done it. Laine and Matthews... but they did already prove at men´s league that they really can produce there and most likely both have change to become generational players.

 

[QnebO]

and after 7 games, at group stage our players are so tired that they can barely walk for the first QF match. Well who cares if we get medals, we just need to look good.

We were just putting [MOD] this coach discussion. But it has slight point. This team has been too emotionless.

 

[FiLe]

I mean Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen played a solid season!

Yeah, he did... in Jr.A. Did you really just suggest that a 17-year-old goalie who's got zero men's games on his belt, some consistency problems even on U18 level should suddenly become the starter in men's WHC?

Dude, that's... I... I mean... I don't even... let's just say that's not going to happen. Like never.

-Besides, Korpisalo is young too, doubly so for a goalie, and he's got plenty to prove, given he's not an NHL starter yet and is in fact in a race for the backup spot in the Blue Jackets' organization with Anton Forsberg. So he certainly had the motivation to show up and play lights out here, given the shot as a starter.

Julius Honka was a good pick, he is there just to clinch the spot at the Stars' roster and you can see why. But why not add more youth to the team? Urho Vaakanainen and Miro Heiskanen are a first round prospects this years draft, what could be better than showcase themselves at the men's tournament? Also Olli Juolevi continued where he left off with the Knights, the guy can roll the powerplay and look at where Finland suck this tournament... yep.

There was some debate about Juolevi, but I think his chances were ultimately torpedoed by the complete lack of pedigree from men's games. OHL and U20 NT success can rarely be used to meter how ready a player is to take the next step. Heiskanen and Vaakanainen at least have some kind of Liiga records, and they've proven they can hang on in there just fine, so... at least that's got some ground.

Regardless, I don't think that a 17/18-year-old d-men are going to be the impact players you wish them to be. At the very least, I hope you're not suggesting they should've taken all three. One of these may have hung in there if picked, but let's keep in mind that this lot couldn't even help them avoid a disaster in the U20 games.

-Here's a suggestion: If you want to watch a young d-man with lot to prove, besides Honka that is, follow Mikko Lehtonen. Marjamäki took a pretty huge flier on him already.

But still powerplay looks horrible and some skill and willingness is required. Kristian Vesalainen is a very promising goal scorer with Eeli Tolvanen both looking to be first round picks. The Skoda Cup veterans would've been very nice target to be replaced. And why not throw the winning rookie scorer Teemu Turunen there?

Junior achievements aside, Vesalainen wasn't good enough to break an SHL roster in Frölunda, was loaned to HPK where he was a filler player. That's not someone you realistically expect having an impact in men's WHC.

On Tolvanen's case any sensible coach will wait and see if he can take his USHL scoring stats and translate them to the next level. They're not just gonna hope that happens because of... youth enthusiasm or something.

Turunen's point totals give him the 48th seed in this year's Liiga scoring table. If seeds #2 and #3 on that table haven't done much impact here, I think it's a bit too much to expect from someone nearly 50 spots down the list.

-Besides Aho and Rantanen, don't we have Pulju too? And how has he done? I bet if he was left outside the squad, people would now be talking how he could've made all the difference.

I mean many teams have done this now for years. Team USA does this all the time by sending college players and prospects. I think that this tournament is ideal for that, the scouts are there but they aren't looking for seasoned players whose NHL train went 10 years ago.

Sorry, you're plain out to sea here. No team takes a bunch of 17/18-year-olds with little to no pedigree from men. USA has three college players in this squad, but even the youngest of them is a '97-born, same age as our Aho. Oldest saw the light of this world in '95, same as Honka. They very much wait 'til those players are out of the junior age and physically mature enough to take the step for this level.

Additionally, they don't count anything on 'em. If they can show they should be out there when the game is on the line, it's a bonus for the USA. But if they can't, they can always bury them to the bottom of the roster and let other guys handle the load - guys who happen to be career NHLers. And even if those guys fail too, it's water off the duck's back for them, because no one back home will care. There's gonna be no raving mob waiting to lynch them when get back home if they don't get a medal.

Finland, obviously, has none of these luxuries.

 

[FiLe]

As for the Marjamäki discussion, I can't help but shake my head. People are really that eager to get rid of him that they're willing to concoct some story about him being a Summanen 2.0? Or if they're not coming up with those stories themselves, they're willing to grasp at straws and believe any bar corner hearsay to get support for their stance.

I mean, yeah, obviously some people are that mad, but it's still completely tasteless to even hint at something like that. And it really makes me doubt said commenters' grasp of reality, if they think it makes some kind of respectable argument for getting rid of the coach.

 

[Loffer]

Vesalainen would be useless here. He is not on that elite level as a prospect, he could barely be 2nd rounder or late 1st round, not ready yet.

On others, not commenting on any direction. Juolevi probably would outdo some defender in this team...

It has a valid point. And as a valid part of this valid point I hereby announce I am ready to take the responsibility of mental coaching of the team in more nuanced dimensions and not in the locker room raging form. Okay, we should approach the Federation with our proposal...