WC: 2017 Team Finland

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SaekkiPaelli

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Oct 1, 2011
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Well, when reading the statistics as you suggested, I still consider that our current results are not in our standards.

2016 : 7 W ; 29 goals scored ; 6 goals against
Our performance : 6-2 (BLR) ; 2-0 (CAN) ; 5-1 (GER) ; 3-2 (USA) ; 3-0 (HUN) ; 3-1 (FRA) ; 5-0 (SVK)

No comment: Great offense and defense/goaltending (3 clean sheets)

2015: 4 W, 2 OTW, 1L ; 22 goals scored ; 9 goals against
Our performance: 1-5 (USA) ; 3-0 (DEN) ; 5-0 (NOR) ; 4-0 (SLO) ; 3-0 (SVK) ; 3-2 OT (BLR) ; 3-2 OT (RUS)
Apart from the accident in Game 1, very good performance. Great defense/goaltending (3 clean sheets)

2014 : 3 W, 1OTW, 3L ; 18 goals scored ; 15 goals against
Our performance: 2-3 (LAT) ; 2-4 (RUS) ; 4-0 (GER) ; 2-0 (BLR) ; 3-2 OT (SWT) ; 1-3 (USA) ; 4-3 (KAZ)
One of our worst tournaments but if we compare to the 2017 one: 2014 defense/goaltending should be better, 2014 offense may be better (considering how we currently struggle to score)

2013: 4W, 2OTW, 1L ; 23 goals scored ; 14 goals against
Our performance: 4-3 OT (GER), 2-0 (SVK), 3-1 (FRA), 1-4 (USA), 3-2 (RUS), 7-2 (AUS), 3-2 OT (LAT)
Overall, very good results.

Now 2017: 2 W, 1OTW, 1OTL, 1L ; 15 goals scored ; 15 goals against.
My conclusion if I follow your advice and look at the statistics before posting :
2017 is on the track of being one of our weakest performances along with 2014 in terms of points and both offence and defence.

Looking forward to the next games.

You just proved his point here? Look at 2013 for example, 2 OT wins against Latvia nad frekain Germany? how is thta not thesame as OT win against Norway and loss to France, basically equal.

And even more so 2014, loss to Latvia, only 1 goal win vs kazakhstan(same as belarus this year), OT win vs Switzerland, only 2 goal win vs Belarus(and the second goal was an empty netter at the end) and also losses to Russia and US. And still got the silver.

This is not unprecedented by any means. I'm not saying Marjamäki is a good coach, but he should at least get the benefit of the doubt until the freaking tournament is over. Also Finland's team is absolute garbage. I don't know if it's his fault that some players didn't want to come or was it just bad luck. And in case people are saying that players didn't come cause they feel he micromanages too much I would love to see at least some sources for this information.

The defencemen this year are probably the worst I have seen. I hold Jokerit season pass and Jaakola for example was probably the worst defenceman on Jokerit this year(second best last year), absolutely useless and makes a ton of mistakes like in the France game. Ohtamaa always screws up something every game( as the penalty vs Belarus, or falling on the goalie vs france, I think), V Lajunen is real bad in his own end and during the opponents transition. Honka is too inexperienced to be the go to guy. Hietanen is totally washed up, Järvinen has very little actual hockey IQ, Kukkonen battles hard but just isn't good enough vs NHL caliber players. Lehtonen is okay I guess, hasn't impressed but hasn't been terrible either and I haven't seen him much outside this tournament so hard to judge.

The forwards then, Filppula has been really bad, he brings nothing, every shift he just does something and never anything useful, plays the most PP and doesn't do anything. J Lajunen should not be in the national team by any standards, there are about 25 liiga players better than him. Osala, Sallinen, JM Aaltonen, Kemppainen are also not players that can compete vs any good team even by a stretch. Aho and Rantanen are fine, but they should be 2nd 3rd line guys on the national team at this point, not the go to guys. Pihlström is fine on the team but he should be on the forth line, same with Hännikäinen and Pyörälä. Savinainen is decent for the third/forth line and standing in front of the net on the PP, since we don't have anyone better. M Aaltonen is decent, don't have a problem with him, but there are better options.

Puljujärvi is fine but just to get experience, if Finland actually got all good players he wouldn't be on the team.

This is just my view, and maybe there weren't any better options available but if there were then obviously it's Marjamäki's fault for poor choices(like J Lajunen I can't believe there were no better players). Lepistö for example would have been better than all the dmen except maybe Honka and Lehtonen(again don't really know him well enough)

So Marjamäki has maybe 3-4 players that would be on team Finland if all players were available, which is pretty telling of the material he has to work with this year. And again if it's his fault that some NHL players aren't there I would like to know why(would love to see sources, if someone has any and not just this hearsay and rumors).
 

llwyd

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Feb 22, 2006
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Do you believe Finland has s chance in this tournament vs Russia?

We should ask the Russians which would they prefer, Finland or Switzerland - I think I know the answer... Yeah, this hasn't been pretty so far, but there have been at times pretty ok play and they have gotten slowly better. With this material I think we don't have a chance for gold, but absolutely we can get to the semifinals. Switzerland is not really hugely better than Norway: they are eminently beatable even by this year's Finland.
 

Lataba76

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Sep 6, 2015
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We should ask the Russians which would they prefer, Finland or Switzerland - I think I know the answer... Yeah, this hasn't been pretty so far, but there have been at times pretty ok play and they have gotten slowly better. With this material I think we don't have a chance for gold, but absolutely we can get to the semifinals. Switzerland is not really hugely better than Norway: they are eminently beatable even by this year's Finland.

But SUI is euphoric now. The defense is in determing situation not good enough. But the Finns can teach me of a better one. I hope so ;)!
 

Couchcaptain

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Nov 11, 2016
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Finland is just absolutely ****ing pathetic in all levels this year.. There is no positives, just overwhelming darkness. Terrible coaching, terrible roster. Absolutely no leadership at all in the coaching department, nor in the ice. We have no leaders in the team.. This team is mentally fragile.

Switzerland 5 Finland 2
 

Lataba76

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Sep 6, 2015
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We should ask the Russians which would they prefer, Finland or Switzerland - I think I know the answer... Yeah, this hasn't been pretty so far, but there have been at times pretty ok play and they have gotten slowly better. With this material I think we don't have a chance for gold, but absolutely we can get to the semifinals. Switzerland is not really hugely better than Norway: they are eminently beatable even by this year's Finland.

SUI ist not hugely better than Norway? Then is Finland so good as Italy.
 

Eye of Ra

Grandmaster General of the International boards
Nov 15, 2008
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finland can win against russia if finland play old school sisu hockey. but i dont think that will happen.
 

sooni

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Oct 23, 2014
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I can´t really see that Kanada loses even one point to Norway because they a.lost last game to swiss and well the want to get game against Latvia/Germany... so yea we are at top 8 already... i will give Norway 1% change to win that game.

After all speculating and crying this team did what needed. I don´t care how they win, i just care about result. Everyone have to understand that Finland playing style have to go hand to hand with how good your players are. This playing style is really effectively.

Biggest thing there why players are making so much mistakes is ice quality. It is same for everyone obviously, but teams which are better are really losing more because of that.

I just hope Finland will win this tournament [MOD] :handclap:
 
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MMANumminen

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May 7, 2010
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Good post Säkkipilli.

We have only 3 guys who can shoot; Rantanen, Aho and Savinainen. All these Lajunen's Miroaaltonen's and Pihlströms will hit the logo all day all night. Even our tactics are crap we will get scoring chances but the coach cannot put the pucks in by the bench.

I've been wondering where the hits are? For example Osala is a monster, also Järvinen, but if they don't use their frame they're useless. And I don't mean cross checking to the back type of hits
 

Loffer

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Sep 22, 2011
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Regardless, the Federation shouldn't try to use excuses to keep Berry Hill at his head coach post. And most likely they won't since the players whose word means something voted and will vote again him out. As nice or civilized as the guy might be (though an unbearable bore most likely) he is not the man who can lead the NT to the next era of success.

Some of you make it sound as if his continuation in the job would be a great thing and a value worth protecting at all costs - or that regardless of everything his sacking would be premature and most unfortunate and all lucky bounces and or publicly acceptable reasons or excuses are welcome to get over those unwarranted but inevitable external demands, pressures and critiques to fire the dude. Since apparently as the logic goes the guy will get better and even if not we cannot know it yet.

Like it or not but the players with the authority of opinion have already made it known and clear mr. Berry Hill must go which is the only viable option for the guys with official authority over the issue. And the right decision without excuses in the current circumstances.
 

Lepardi

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Jan 1, 2008
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Like it or not but the players with the authority of opinion have already made it known and clear mr. Berry Hill must go which is the only viable option for the guys with official authority over the issue.

Where does the Finnish federation get the money for a coach who the NHL players will listen to? The new coach has to be someone with plenty of NHL experience.
 

sooni

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Oct 23, 2014
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Where does the Finnish federation get the money for a coach who the NHL players will listen to? The new coach has to be someone with plenty of NHL experience.

Actually he does not have to be NHL Coach. He has to be really big name in Finland... There is 5 man who i can see to do that job.

1. Erkka Westerlund He is Ufa´s next Coach so that is not probably gonna happen.
2. Jukka Jalonen Well he is Coaching Jokerit so probably that is not gonna happen.
3. Hannu Aravirta Actually i´m not sure if he is anymore interested of this job.
4. Karri Kivi. Might be too young still for this job. Eventually he will be the "man" for this country obviously. Is he ready already i doubt it. And ofc. he have contract with Ilves already.
5. Karo Jalonen. Well seems like our NHL players loved to come play for him so... why not. He is SC Berns coach so that might be a problem.

Nhl coach would be funny to see tho. :P Maybe we just should stay with Marjamäki one more year and wait for Kivi.
 

QnebO

Wheel, snipe, celly
Feb 11, 2010
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Kukkonen did well. He didint know what kiire is last night. Important leader, i think. Our best player with Säteri. Aho was good.

Were getting there, but is there nuf time.. Goalie situation is worrysome. Säteri was great last night but swiss also missed couple empty netters, ambhul missed them both on PP. With säteri we go, hoping that he can stay in the flow for rest or tournament.

Osala looks like he has strenght but not irtonaisuus. Classic diesel engine player. Hoping he'll focus to improve aerobic fit, agility and sprint next summer.
 

FiLe

Mr. Know-It-Nothing
Oct 9, 2009
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2. Jukka Jalonen Well he is Coaching Jokerit so probably that is not gonna happen.
Actually, I see little to no problems for Jalonen handling it for one season as a job on the side, so they can ride out Kivi's current contract. Jokerit would be understanding for sure - it'd be an emergency, after all.

But in reality, I've no doubt that Liitto will look for any excuse to hang onto Marjamäki, because the reality is that the arrangement described above wouldn't exactly be ideal either.

One thing is for certain though - they're not gonna get rid of Marjamäki before they know what's gonna happen next and who's gonna replace him. Worst case scenario is that Norway somehow gets four points or more from Canada and Belarus (and we get none from Canada), but the Jalonen arrangement above falls through, and they'll end up using the handwave "well, we should have been in the quarters" to excuse hanging onto Marjamäki for another season.

That, of course, would be a far from ideal situation to Marjamäki, since he'd be under intense scrutiny.
 

kunekune

Registered User
Feb 17, 2016
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Actually, I see little to no problems for Jalonen handling it for one season as a job on the side, so they can ride out Kivi's current contract. Jokerit would be understanding for sure - it'd be an emergency, after all.

If Kivi is who they want next it shouldn't be too hard to get him off from Ilves contract.

Ilves is in extremely poor financial situation. They need all the money they can get and while Kivi is important to them, money is even more important.
 

FiLe

Mr. Know-It-Nothing
Oct 9, 2009
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If Kivi is who they want next it shouldn't be too hard to get him off from Ilves contract.
Maybe. It'd of course depend on - at least in part - on how much the buyout would be. Ilves would at least demand as much as they think they'd get from the next season in a scenario where everything goes swimmingly.

One additional wrench in the works could be the Olympics. It'd not be an ideal inaugural major tournament for a rookie coach. Or at least it wouldn't be if it's a best-on-best. And there's still a slim chance the NHL will let its players go after all. There's been reports the league is actually drafting two season schedules - one with an olympic break and one without. The absolute deadline to lock down the course is sometime in July, I hear.

Of course, if the Pyeongchang tournament is merely EHT on steroids, then it'd probably be no issue. But I can see Liitto dragging its feet 'til that situation is 100% clear.

In any case, there're plenty of moving parts and details to sort out, so we probably won't hear any news immediately, even if Marjamäki's departure does look like the preferred option. Yet they can't sit on it for too long, given how short the summer is after all.
 

sooni

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Oct 23, 2014
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If Kivi is who they want next it shouldn't be too hard to get him off from Ilves contract.

Ilves is in extremely poor financial situation. They need all the money they can get and while Kivi is important to them, money is even more important.

Actually after fast thinking i would prefer to go with J Jalonen as Head Coach and Kivi as assistant. Our next tournament is Olympics and some expirience might be needed. Actually that is win win situation because Jukka misses only Olympic gold as Leijona Coach and Karri will have some experience there before he becomes our next hockey god.
 

Loffer

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Sep 22, 2011
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Maybe. It'd of course depend on - at least in part - on how much the buyout would be. Ilves would at least demand as much as they think they'd get from the next season in a scenario where everything goes swimmingly.

One additional wrench in the works could be the Olympics. It'd not be an ideal inaugural major tournament for a rookie coach. Or at least it wouldn't be if it's a best-on-best. And there's still a slim chance the NHL will let its players go after all. There's been reports the league is actually drafting two season schedules - one with an olympic break and one without. The absolute deadline to lock down the course is sometime in July, I hear.

Of course, if the Pyeongchang tournament is merely EHT on steroids, then it'd probably be no issue. But I can see Liitto dragging its feet 'til that situation is 100% clear.

In any case, there're plenty of moving parts and details to sort out, so we probably won't hear any news immediately, even if Marjamäki's departure does look like the preferred option. Yet they can't sit on it for too long, given how short the summer is after all.


Otherwise your logic being sound and flawless (as usual), the Olympics with the possible best on best situation only make it even that more urgent and unavoidable to give mr. Berry Hill a decent exit out of the current predicament the post has turned out to be for the poor guy.
 

sooni

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Oct 23, 2014
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Loffer. Remember that there is not actually a lot Coaches which are actually available or even care about this job. That work can in worst case situation even kill someones career. Worst case scenario might be that we kick our coach away and our only left option is Tamminen because no one wants this ****** job and well... then we are screwed.
 

Lepardi

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Jan 1, 2008
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Finland
One additional wrench in the works could be the Olympics. It'd not be an ideal inaugural major tournament for a rookie coach. Or at least it wouldn't be if it's a best-on-best. And there's still a slim chance the NHL will let its players go after all. There's been reports the league is actually drafting two season schedules - one with an olympic break and one without. The absolute deadline to lock down the course is sometime in July, I hear.

I've thought all along that there's no reason to jump into conclusions about NHL participation in Pyeongchang before they release their schedule for 2017-18. Yeah, they said they're not going, but that's only talk, and talk is cheap. We have to wait for the schedule release before we really know anything.
 

Loffer

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Sep 22, 2011
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Loffer. Remember that there is not actually a lot Coaches which are actually available or even care about this job. That work can in worst case situation even kill someones career. Worst case scenario might be that we kick our coach away and our only left option is Tamminen because no one wants this ****** job and well... then we are screwed.


Sooni, you might be onto something there... - but the prospect of seeing mr. don cherry of Finland with his parrot jackets behind the bench of the Lions in the Olympics South Korean would be one delicious and entertaining scenario indeed. :popcorn::laugh:

The guy has the ego for the job, that's for sure; the competence part I dunno, but the ego and leadership are there and those qualities are a must requirement before the tactical level skills can even be factored in the equation. :D

Also: JMA would not be selected to the team which must be seen as a defintive plus. Hah.
 
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