WC: 2017 Team Finland

[FiLe]

I haven´t read Selämme´s book. Is this from it? I remember that Selänne declined from 1992 WHC (and if talking about surprising medals...) but other than that was it not the poor success in 1993 what got Matikainen sacked.

The source is Matikainen himself. He has pretty heavily alluded that after the Selänne incident in 1992* Kummola was just looking for an excuse to get rid of him. Which Kale got the next year.

Even if it's sour grapes from Matikainen, the main point that no one disputes is that he and Teemu didn't exactly get along.


*Selänne was invited, but declined, because - as the story goes - the team was in his words, "s**t". Then Kummola talked him into joining after all, but now Matikainen refused to have him, stating that "this s***ty team doesn't need him".

But I agree. Westerlund is pretty much the only one that I can remember that pleased pretty much everyone...

And I don´t really understand how Marjamäki has managed to **** someone off yet. There has only been bigger one tournament yet. And the team buiding for World Cup is really strange. Somebody has problems for few outside the box WHC camp selections?

I don´t know if there is fact basis in these, but if someone like Armia who has just barely get a solid spot in one of the weakest teams in 30 team NHL at third line is demanding roles in NT... Well I´m not saying anything because it´s just rumours.

I don't get it either, and I think the whole thing is somewhat overblown. And even if some players do think less of Marjamäki than some previous coaches, that's nothing new, as history so evidently tells us.

Apart from Erkka, Ara is another one whom I can't remember having any serious interpersonal issues. Which kinda makes me wonder if there's any correlation to the fact that both failed to deliver in a gold medal game, despite getting multiple opportunities. (Compare to J.Jalonen, for example, who is to date a 100% performer in all the finals he's reached.) You don't want a coach who's a complete jerk, but some grit in his personality may be required for the team to mount the final step.

And Armia is in no position to demand any specific role - even though his role in this team would most likely have been bigger than in his club team. Which prompts to add an extra layer of salt to the claim.

 

[mattihp]

Korpisalo is way further in his development that I thought.

 

[BennsGonnaGetYou]

@FiLe & Sanf
I'm on the same page as you are. People just don't have any patience.

@mattihp
We've had outstanding goalies in the past World Championships, let's hope it continues that way. Also nice to see that Filppula continues to score in the NT sweater!

 

[ES]

How do you know it's Armia? Are you guessing?

The reporter and Armia are both from Pori which could explain things.

 

[BennsGonnaGetYou]

Has Armia ever played under Marjamäki?

 

[FiLe]

Has Armia ever played under Marjamäki?

Yes he has. In 2011 when Marjamäki was the U20 coach. Though 18-year-old Armia was like a whole another player than today's Armia.

---

Notes after today's game:

-I guess Korpisalo showed why he's in the NHL and our other two goalies aren't. Heck of a statement and the starter job pretty much nailed down - unless Saros or Raanta becomes available (though if he keeps this up, only one who might really be a tangible upgrade over him is Rinne).

-Our defense looks at least adequate too. Unless Kivistö has some injury, or Late has a surprise pick to pull from somewhere, I'd say either Vittasmäki, Järvinen or Lajunen is going to get cut, and it makes no difference which one of those it is. None of them have been bad, but one still has to go. Though they could even cut Ohtamaa, Jaakola or Kukkonen with little difference, but those three are obviously status protected.

-JMA looked decent for change. This game plus his status as a Marjamäki familiar probably means he's going to make it now. It's still a cheaply-bought ticket, but at least *somewhat* justified.

-Puljujärvi... needs work. A lot of it. I still don't believe in what they say about Armia, but if our management did plan to have Armia as a defensive specialist while giving Pulju a golden opportunity on the 1st unit, I'd be ticked too if I were Joppe. If any other forward was playing like Pulju in these two games so far, we'd have run out of rope a long time ago.

-Which gets us to the biggest issue right now IMO. We seem to have a bit of a logjam for right wing. Palola doesn't deserve to be cut. JMA probably won't get cut. And no one wants to see Pulju get cut. And while they all could be passable as wingers in the middle-six, none really look like 1st line material. That slot should be given to Rantanen. But to solve the logjam, I guess he's the most suitable one to be placed on left.


Still have tomorrow's game to watch, but right now, I'd start with these forward lines:

Rantanen - Filppula - Palola
Aho - M.Aaltonen - Puljujärvi
Savinainen - Kemppainen - JMA
Pyörälä - Sallinen - Pihlström
Extras: Hännikäinen + Lajunen or Hintz.


If Pulju doesn't pick it up (or JMA goes back to useless mode), lines can then be mixed roughly like this:

Aho - Filppula - Rantanen
Savinainen - M.Aaltonen - Palola
Hännikäinen - Kemppainen - JMA/Pulju
Pyörälä - Sallinen - Pihlström

 

[DeeQ]

I don't know, this team feels a bit confusing to me. We'll see if Marjamäki can pull it off. Being an underdog has never been an issue to our team so I still have high hopes.
Puljujärvi seems a bit off. Has he been struggling with his development?

 

[Mestaruus]

The team defense, PK and Korpisalo were great and PP was pretty good but the offense on 5on5 was such a let down in both vs CZE & RUS games that I would try to take as many players possible from outside the squad in to the team now. Of course there aren't many players left that makes sense. It might be more of a coaching issue than players' fault but I would still try some changes. I hope that it will be get better. We got outshot pretty badly vs RUS and CZE dominated our team after the first 5 mins and 2-0 lead for us.

Jani Lajunen would definitely be one of our top-4 centers for me, knocking Sallinen out of the playing squad, unless Sallinen would be 13th forward. I'd also like to replace JMA with Savinainen.

-JMA looked decent for change. This game plus his status as a Marjamäki familiar probably means he's going to make it now. It's still a cheaply-bought ticket, but at least *somewhat* justified.

Due to so many NHL wingers declining JMA probably has a shot now to make it. I would still not take him but at least he can draw penalties.

Rantanen - Filppula - Palola
Aho - M.Aaltonen - Puljujärvi
Savinainen - Kemppainen - JMA
Pyörälä - Sallinen - Pihlström
Extras: Hännikäinen + Lajunen or Hintz.


If Pulju doesn't pick it up (or JMA goes back to useless mode), lines can then be mixed roughly like this:

Aho - Filppula - Rantanen
Savinainen - M.Aaltonen - Palola
Hännikäinen - Kemppainen - JMA/Pulju
Pyörälä - Sallinen - Pihlström

Osala's name is missing. You didn't forget him right? Since Pihlström is praised so much as center and apparently good enough in faceoffs too,
could drop Sallinen out and do Pyörälä-Pihlström-Osala. Though hopefully Marjamäki takes Lajunen in for the final squad. I guess Osala or Hännikäinen would make room for him since Pihlström would probably take a winger spot then.

 

[BennsGonnaGetYou]

Maybe in Puljujärvis case he's a late bloomer. Which in one way seems kind of strange considering how he totally dominated in u18 and u20 last year. On the other hand it might just be that he is a bit surprised that everything is not that easy anymore. I think he'll figure this one out and that he'll be the player he was destined to be. By that I mean that he should definitely have a shot in a top six role, no matter if he's hot or not.

 

[FiLe]

Osala's name is missing. You didn't forget him right? Since Pihlström is praised so much as center and apparently good enough in faceoffs too, could drop Sallinen out and do Pyörälä-Pihlström-Osala.

I didn't forget Osala. There's simply no room for him in that lineup. Not with all those Marjamäki familiars. Pyörälä and Pillu obviously won't lose to him, so only one he could potentially replace is Hännikäinen as an extra, but I see Heineken winning that matchup. And having neither of Lajunen and Sallinen in the lineup in the favor of Pihlström playing centre would be pure idiocy IMO, because those two are miles better at it than Pillu, who's still first and foremost a winger.

Manninen should get cut to shave the roster down to 14 forwards. Then if Marjamäki wants Savinainen, Osala/Hännikäinen gets cut to make room for him, and if Late wants Lajunen, then Hintz should get cut.

Okay, I guess there's room for both Osala and Hännikäinen in the roster (but not in the active lineup), if they cut both Hintz and Manninen but don't have Lajunen. That would leave them without the fifth "spare" center, but in the case one gets injured, they could use either Pihlström (if they need one for bottom-six) or Aho (for top-six). But that still seems like a pretty silly thing to do, since it's just to have both Osala and Hännikäinen as extras.

 

[Puckluck]

Osala is versatile and has a strong season behind him. I do not think he should get cut.

 

[schmiedi]

Yes he has. In 2011 when Marjamäki was the U20 coach. Though 18-year-old Armia was like a whole another player than today's Armia.

---

Notes after today's game:

-I guess Korpisalo showed why he's in the NHL and our other two goalies aren't. Heck of a statement and the starter job pretty much nailed down - unless Saros or Raanta becomes available (though if he keeps this up, only one who might really be a tangible upgrade over him is Rinne).

-Our defense looks at least adequate too. Unless Kivistö has some injury, or Late has a surprise pick to pull from somewhere, I'd say either Vittasmäki, Järvinen or Lajunen is going to get cut, and it makes no difference which one of those it is. None of them have been bad, but one still has to go. Though they could even cut Ohtamaa, Jaakola or Kukkonen with little difference, but those three are obviously status protected.

-JMA looked decent for change. This game plus his status as a Marjamäki familiar probably means he's going to make it now. It's still a cheaply-bought ticket, but at least *somewhat* justified.

-Puljujärvi... needs work. A lot of it. I still don't believe in what they say about Armia, but if our management did plan to have Armia as a defensive specialist while giving Pulju a golden opportunity on the 1st unit, I'd be ticked too if I were Joppe. If any other forward was playing like Pulju in these two games so far, we'd have run out of rope a long time ago.

-Which gets us to the biggest issue right now IMO. We seem to have a bit of a logjam for right wing. Palola doesn't deserve to be cut. JMA probably won't get cut. And no one wants to see Pulju get cut. And while they all could be passable as wingers in the middle-six, none really look like 1st line material. That slot should be given to Rantanen. But to solve the logjam, I guess he's the most suitable one to be placed on left.


Still have tomorrow's game to watch, but right now, I'd start with these forward lines:

Rantanen - Filppula - Palola
Aho - M.Aaltonen - Puljujärvi
Savinainen - Kemppainen - JMA
Pyörälä - Sallinen - Pihlström
Extras: Hännikäinen + Lajunen or Hintz.


If Pulju doesn't pick it up (or JMA goes back to useless mode), lines can then be mixed roughly like this:

Aho - Filppula - Rantanen
Savinainen - M.Aaltonen - Palola
Hännikäinen - Kemppainen - JMA/Pulju
Pyörälä - Sallinen - Pihlström

Saros is for sure a Upgrade for korpisalo. If you can get him you should take him.

 

[Finnswiss]

Does anybody know if Marjamäki Intend to add some players from the finnish champion Tappara Tampere?

 

[FiLe]

Osala is versatile and has a strong season behind him. I do not think he should get cut.

I'm sure no one would mind him making the team. But there may not be room for him. A lot depends on whether Marjamäki wants Savinainen or not. If he does, then he either needs to cut one of Palola/JMA/Puljujärvi or one of Pihlström/Pyörälä/Osala/Hännikäinen. And quite a few of those players appear to have pretty heavy protections. In the end, the only somewhat realistic-looking scenario is to make the choice between Osala and Hännikäinen. Unless Marjamäki actually has the gall to boot a trusted player.

Saros is for sure a Upgrade for korpisalo. If you can get him you should take him.

I see you failed to comprehend the part "if he keeps this up".

Does anybody know if Marjamäki Intend to add some players from the finnish champion Tappara Tampere?

Nobody knows save for Marjamäki himself, but it's possible. Veli-Matti Savinainen is a strong candidate, he's been effective on the EHT this season. Jani Lajunen is another potential name.

Other names from the club would be considered surprises, though.

 

[llwyd]

Maybe in Puljujärvis case he's a late bloomer. Which in one way seems kind of strange considering how he totally dominated in u18 and u20 last year. On the other hand it might just be that he is a bit surprised that everything is not that easy anymore. I think he'll figure this one out and that he'll be the player he was destined to be. By that I mean that he should definitely have a shot in a top six role, no matter if he's hot or not.

I don't actually get the big criticisms from these last two games - his skating seems very ok, he already makes noticeable moves (you basically don't remember most of the attackers, they are one gray ineffective mass). He is clearly rusty and has problems with timing on the big ice, but I would say that in this team he is definitely top-6 material.

 

[FiLe]

I don't actually get the big criticisms from these last two games - his skating seems very ok, he already makes noticeable moves (you basically don't remember most of the attackers, they are one gray ineffective mass). He is clearly rusty and has problems with timing on the big ice, but I would say that in this team he is definitely top-6 material.

The problem with Pulju is that at the moment, the team has three offensive natural right wingers in Palola, JMA and Puljujärvi. (Or four, if you wish to count Rantanen.) They can all be treated somewhat interchangeably, so fitting them all in is going to be difficult. Therefore it's not good if Pulju is part of the grey mass, he should do something, anything that makes him stand out.

I suppose it's not so much criticism as it is concern. While it would be immensely interesting to see him in the final team (I sure hope - and believe - he makes it), it's still going to feel slightly wrong if his only excuse for making it is preferential treatment.

 

[Caffeine]

IMO so far JMA has outplayed Pulju and I think Pulju could get cut from the final roster. Which would be very disappointing but Pulju has done basicly nothing in 2 games. While JMA has proved he has the abilities to play on this level on limited minutes. I just don't get it since Pulju has abilities to do some highlight reel moves and goals, but then he absolutely is lacking basic IQ and puckhandling skills. He doesn't look any better than last year in Liiga playoffs.

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

The problem with Pulju is that at the moment, the team has three offensive natural right wingers in Palola, JMA and Puljujärvi. (Or four, if you wish to count Rantanen.) They can all be treated somewhat interchangeably, so fitting them all in is going to be difficult. Therefore it's not good if Pulju is part of the grey mass, he should do something, anything that makes him stand out.

I suppose it's not so much criticism as it is concern. While it would be immensely interesting to see him in the final team (I sure hope - and believe - he makes it), it's still going to feel slightly wrong if his only excuse for making it is preferential treatment.

I'm kind of thinking it's between JMA and Pulju for the last spot. Late would have hoped Pulju was good, he wasn't so now it's hard. JMA is a known quantity, safe choice, but picking Pulju would be a good message of bold coaching willing to pick young guys.
Fear of alienating JMA is quite limited, as his peak is behind him and the curve points downward.
But if Pulju doesn't get it together..

The coaches will always be criticised for omissions, now even absences. JMA deserves the spot more, but if Pulju gets it together I think he can be better than JMA would be. I'd take the risk with Pulju.
Since we don't have a star team, we might as well risk it.

 

[FiLe]

Hmm. Looks like today's lineup has Pihlström at middle again, this time centering Palola and Rantanen, which is even weirder spot for him than that of bottom-six center.

I'm getting the vibe that while the regular centre lineup is still likely to be Filppula - M.Aaltonen - Kemppainen - Sallinen, they're trying to turn Pillu into that spare fifth center they can move down the middle should an emergency arise. This means they won't have to invite Lajunen (or maybe he has declined, and Marja & co are scrambling?), and they now have room for both Osala and Hännikäinen in the team.

 

[Mestaruus]

I can imagine the shít storm if Pulju gets cut and JMA stays. It will be same as no J.Jokinen for 2010 Olympics. Media and the general public will murder Marjamäki for that and will not forget as Pulju is one of our countries golden boys and a hero in some sense. If Marjamäki doesn't start winning more games and he would do this decision, things would get even harder for him when it comes to pressures etc.

I think that Pulju will be in the team. Minimum a backup and his role in worst case scenario could be same as Rantanen's last year. Where Rantanen didn't get to play much / at all in the beginning.

I want Pulju in the active lineup even if his game doesn't seem perfect yet. He needs time to adjust back to Euro rink and Pulju is a playoff guy and he will be golden for us in the "game of death" and medal games. What would it do to his confidence if he isn't in the active lineup after getting that weird treatment by Oilers...

 

[Mestaruus]

Hmm. Looks like today's lineup has Pihlström at middle again, this time centering Palola and Rantanen, which is even weirder spot for him than that of bottom-six center.

The beginning of something great. Pihlström is soon some crazy 5 million NHL center. Just kidding .

They really love him as center. It really feels like they want him as center in the final team but there is Lajunen and not taking Lajunen feels like idiotic right now. So that makes me puzzled.

Perhaps they are testing how reliable backup center he could be in the tournament if one of our main centers in Lajunen, Kemppainen, Filppula, M.Aaltonen would get injured. So Aho doesn't have to be one of the first backup centers. Oh you already mentioned the same thing. I read the end of the post later. So we both think the same about that and it might be true indeed.

 

[hullsy47]

Osala is versatile and has a strong season behind him. I do not think he should get cut.

is aaltonen the player the leafs just signed ?

 

[vaiski]

Puljujärvi looks, and for me has always looked like, the kind of player who only thinks one move ahead. Especially when compared to a guy like Aho, it's day and night. He's got a great toolkit, I just don't see him maturing into an elite player. I'd love to see him prove me wrong though.

 

[Trilliann]

is aaltonen the player the leafs just signed ?

There are 2 Aaltonens, Leafs signed Miro Aaltonen, the other one is Juhamatti Aaltonen (or JMA)

 

[teravaineSAROS]

Puljujärvi looks, and for me has always looked like, the kind of player who only thinks one move ahead. Especially when compared to a guy like Aho, it's day and night. He's got a great toolkit, I just don't see him maturing into an elite player. I'd love to see him prove me wrong though.

Pulju's been solid today but I see what you're saying. He won't have the same playmaking ability as Aho and Laine did, but maann his athleticism is second to none he's so insanely swift and fast for such a big guy.

Freak of nature.