2017 Offseason Thread 5.0 Summer Doldrums

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I don't even think that contract is a problem. He's overpaid by what 400-500k? Where we stand today we have plenty of cap space. Gaborik and Brown being paid 10M for only 10-15 goals a piece is the problem.

They all add up though. They have some room to breathe now, but with Doughty's impending raise, likely going from $7M to who knows how much, say another $4M increase to retain him, how much room will there be left to make other upgrades?

That's why I think any addition the team makes at any point this season will be for the short term and geared towards making another run at the Cup.
 
Does anyone find it weird that Kings practice lines and defense pairs was not made public by LaKingsInsider page and could not find them on twitter.
Every other team had every group made public, how pairs and lines played Kings had nothing.
 
It's not about being a Clifford hater it's more about being a die hard Kings fan and caring about the success of the team unfortunately lol

So fans that like clifford arent die hard kings fans that care about the success of the team?

The guy is a warrior. He has had his struggles, but if kopitar and toffoli are potting 25 goals are we still moaning about him? Its easy to pick on the meat and potato players, but to take their contributions for granted is a mistake. People forget Clifford played the 2014 finals series against the rags with a broken wrist, but still assisted on martinezs series winning goal.

I know it is dangerous to live in the past, but having these guys help lead the youth and carry the team culture is priceless
 
I think Nolan has better raw skill but he's also chronically injured and a huge liability defensively. Clifford's metrics are stronger and he can take a regular shift with anyone. Nolan leaves me thinking he can be much more but being so high on Nolan while calling Clifford a black hole makes zero sense when Kyle has outscored Jordan every single year but once. You can say it's not up for debate but plain facts disagree with you before we even get to opinions.

Yeah that's not fair because Clifford has played consistently while Nolan rides pine often so that's not a good metric. Clifford doesn't do anything, and if Clifford Is paid to be your run in the mill below useless one dimensional player, then maybe he's a good reason why the Kings need a culture change. He provides nothing important.
 
He is paid to play physical hockey. For the 9 mins a game he plays he is among nhl leaders in hits per min of ice time during his nhl career Al thou is loses most of his fights he is still among the leaders in fights in the nhl. That is what he is paid for.

He plays the type of physical hockey that la is known for He is one of the few left that can do it.
So pretty much he does nothing. Thanks for proving my point.

Anyways, people seem really infatuated with Clifford even when he's useless. I didn't know Dean Lombardi had so many HF accounts lol. You pretty much explained Zeiler. Did nothing but hit players and boards. It all adds up. If all he does is hit people maybe we should replace him with someone who has more usefulness and who can actually fight without getting their **** kicked in. Seriously people love a good story. Dudes garbage. Even the people trying to reason for his spot on the team are actually proving my point he does nothing. I don't get the Clifford love, no one loved zeiler and he did the same ****. Who cares if he leads in hits when he can't do **** else. Anyone take a glance at the Pens roster. I'm sure their fourth line purpose isn't to make the boards rattle every shift.

People want more skill on this team but have a hard time letting go of over paid plugs like Clifford. Sheesh.
 
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So pretty much he does nothing. Thanks for proving my point.

Anyways, people seem really infatuated with Clifford even when he's useless. I didn't know Dean Lombardi had so many HF accounts lol. You pretty much explained Zeiler. Did nothing but hit players and boards. It all adds up. If all he does is hit people maybe we should replace him with someone who has more usefulness and who can actually fight without getting their **** kicked in. Seriously people love a good story. Dudes garbage. Even the people trying to reason for his spot on the team are actually proving my point he does nothing. I don't get the Clifford love, no one loved zeiler and he did the same ****. Who cares if he leads in hits when he can't do **** else. Anyone take a glance at the Pens roster. I'm sure their fourth line purpose isn't to make the boards rattle every shift.

People want more skill on this team but have a hard time letting go of over paid plugs like Clifford. Sheesh.
So Clifford play is as bad as Zieler? Man, the Clifford hate is real. I guess it's time to bring back the Craig Jonsons of the world, I forgot u want skill how about Mikko Eloranta. And what did accomplish, jack oddly squat.

Skill is suppose to come from the top 3 lines, not the fourth liners. Especially on a physical team like LA.
 
So Clifford play is as bad as Zieler? Man, the Clifford hate is real. I guess it's time to bring back the Craig Jonsons of the world, I forgot u want skill how about Mikko Eloranta. And what did accomplish, jack oddly squat.

Skill is suppose to come from the top 3 lines, not the fourth liners. Especially on a physical team like LA.

It's not hate, it's called being realistic. Do the pens have no skill on their fourth line?
 
It's not hate, it's called being realistic. Do the pens have no skill on their fourth line?

They have Crosby and Malkin leading the team in the top 6. And paid big time for Reaves to protect their star players
 
It's not hate, it's called being realistic. Do the pens have no skill on their fourth line?

Why are you crying so much about our 12th/13th forward? Is it that big of a deal to you? Oh no, we have a physical, 12 point 4th liner on our team that fights more than anyone else, how terriblee. And if he's really as useless and bad as you say he is why hasn't your idol Jordan Nolan or Andy Andreoff taken his spot? They've both had multiple seasons to do so.
 
Yeah that's not fair because Clifford has played consistently while Nolan rides pine often so that's not a good metric. Clifford doesn't do anything, and if Clifford Is paid to be your run in the mill below useless one dimensional player, then maybe he's a good reason why the Kings need a culture change. He provides nothing important.

Why do you suppose that is?

"it's not fair because Clifford scores more because he's a better player so he's in the lineup more" is not much of a comeback. "scoring isn't a good metric for scoring" is also pretty bad.

Let's use rates though since their games are wonky (as 4th line players are). If we go by rates last year, Clifford scores 0.46 g/60, 0.48 Nolan
Clifford p/60, .92 Nolan .96. However, if we go to the previous year and back, it's Clifford no contest by almost half a point/60 each year.

Last year Cliffords SAT% was 56.64, Nolan's 52.43, worst of regular players except for Dwight King. That's rel +2.3 vs. rel -2.8.

Clifford is skating to a net win in possession, production, and physicality. Nolan, like I said, has maybe more raw skill, but is a liability.

Do you have anything else to back up your opinion yet? There's not a significant difference between the players, but you're talking as if Clifford should be blasted to Siberia and Nolan should be a roster fixture in his place. And I like Nolan! The issue is many people seem to need a bottom-six punching bag for really unsupportable reasons and are gravitating towards Clifford because he tends to stay in the lineup but there are statistical and visual reasons why.
 
Using the eye test Jordan Nolan appears to have more raw offensive skill than Kyle Clifford. Jordan Nolan is also injured more often, isn't as reliable in his own zone, and is inconsistent offensively.
 
Reason being is that Clifford has been a king a long time hence they play him over other plugs.
 
Does anyone find it weird that Kings practice lines and defense pairs was not made public by LaKingsInsider page and could not find them on twitter.
Every other team had every group made public, how pairs and lines played Kings had nothing.

I'm used to gaps in coverage by now. Still, Rosen (and Gann & JfTC) have cranked out a lot of articles lately, so I'm in a good mood. Adding to that good mood, the Kings preseason game at 2 today on NHL Network.
 
Reason being is that Clifford has been a king a long time hence they play him over other plugs.

At least you got that right. You're wringing your hands and complaining about a bunch of guys that aren't that important in the grand scheme of things.

The Kings didn't suck ass last year because of Clifford, Nolan and Andreoff. They sucked because of Kopitar, Gaborik, Brown, Toffoli, Muzzin and Martinez.
 
At least you got that right. You're wringing your hands and complaining about a bunch of guys that aren't that important in the grand scheme of things.

The Kings didn't suck ass last year because of Clifford, Nolan and Andreoff. They sucked because of Kopitar, Gaborik, Brown, Toffoli, Muzzin and Martinez.

My deal is just to shed unnecessary players who make more money than they deserve and at least have more capable players take their spots. Obviously there's a whole Clifford fan base here who don't see that but I digress. There's no reasoning or logic being applied to this topic.

People talk about Reaves and then forget the fact that Reaves can kill people,something Clifford can't do. All this time and people can't tell me why Clifford is on the team.
 
My deal is just to shed unnecessary players who make more money than they deserve and at least have more capable players take their spots. Obviously there's a whole Clifford fan base here who don't see that but I digress. There's no reasoning or logic being applied to this topic.

People talk about Reaves and then forget the fact that Reaves can kill people,something Clifford can't do. All this time and people can't tell me why Clifford is on the team.

More capable players? Who would those players be?

The Kings farm system hasn't even produced a player capable of replacing Clifford at this time.
 
My deal is just to shed unnecessary players who make more money than they deserve and at least have more capable players take their spots. Obviously there's a whole Clifford fan base here who don't see that but I digress. There's no reasoning or logic being applied to this topic.

People talk about Reaves and then forget the fact that Reaves can kill people,something Clifford can't do. All this time and people can't tell me why Clifford is on the team.

I'm just curious who you feel within this organization who is more capable of taking Clifford's spot? Nolan? Andreoff? Imama? Auger? Mersch? Arguments can be made for Nolan, but this is one of the few times I'll actually agree with Kings17 and his assessment on Nolan.
 
I'm just curious who you feel within this organization who is more capable of taking Clifford's spot? Nolan? Andreoff? Imama? Auger? Mersch? Arguments can be made for Nolan, but this is one of the few times I'll actually agree with Kings17 and his assessment on Nolan.

Nolan, and anyone else except Andreoff. Nolan is a better face puncher, and more talented offensively the gap between them offensively is bigger than the gap between them defensively.
The thing is Clifford doesn't win fights unless its Polak. Just trying to find out what besides his better defensive play justifies his contract and his spot. We already have Lewis for that.
 
My deal is just to shed unnecessary players who make more money than they deserve and at least have more capable players take their spots. Obviously there's a whole Clifford fan base here who don't see that but I digress. There's no reasoning or logic being applied to this topic.

People talk about Reaves and then forget the fact that Reaves can kill people,something Clifford can't do. All this time and people can't tell me why Clifford is on the team.

Oh you dislike Clifford because he can't kill someone? Guess you'd rather have Ivanans in the line-up huh?
 
Oh you dislike Clifford because he can't kill someone? Guess you'd rather have Ivanans in the line-up huh?

Neither could Ivanans.. People brought up Reaves and compared his importance to Clifford when Reaves is a battering ram and would chew Clifford's lunch for him.
 
Love Nolan but he isn't as willing anymore. Back injury might play a part in that.

I've noticed that. I hope that's not the case cause he's the best fighter on the team and it's not even close.
 
So fans that like clifford arent die hard kings fans that care about the success of the team?

The guy is a warrior. He has had his struggles, but if kopitar and toffoli are potting 25 goals are we still moaning about him? Its easy to pick on the meat and potato players, but to take their contributions for granted is a mistake. People forget Clifford played the 2014 finals series against the rags with a broken wrist, but still assisted on martinezs series winning goal.

I know it is dangerous to live in the past, but having these guys help lead the youth and carry the team culture is priceless


I don't have a problem with Clifford per se and what he does . I don't take him for granted I just think he is overpaid even though it's not much it still makes a difference. We need all the cap space possible .
 

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