2017 Offseason Thread 5.0 Summer Doldrums

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Thank you for the response, Dee. To answer Stimpy's question, I'm not a fan based on the metrics.

I'm sure like anything else, it has its uses... but it favors certain play styles.
 
Thank you for the response, Dee. To answer Stimpy's question, I'm not a fan based on the metrics.

I'm sure like anything else, it has its uses... but it favors certain play styles.

Metrics, like most tools, are viable when they work with other instruments. After reading the GAR article, and seeing Sean's list, it's not one that would work for me. First of all, you can't predict how a team will finish, you can't measure heart and guts and that guy who will drive the net to get the GTG or GWG, or the one who throws his body in front of a shot with 10 seconds left to save the game.
They are all part of variety of 'metrics' that if you use correctly, will work. But you still need guts, heart, soul, moxy and leadership.

Sean's list had Nashville down way too low and the BJ's as well. Same with some of the teams on the high end that seemed out of place.

I think defensive metrics work better, for me, because I've seen over the years, just how valuable some great defensive players (forwards and d) are and how critical they are to a team's success, esp in the playoffs. I can't tell you how many times , over the years, seeing that center who can shut it down, control the faceoff, use his stick and body to position himself and make the other team change their strategy. Players that have high IQ, vision and instincts, stuff that you can't measure but lead directly to W's.

So, the GM's who know how to do both, get the right blend, and the coach that uses them to their best advantage, they will be a team that wins.
 
Metrics, like most tools, are viable when they work with other instruments. After reading the GAR article, and seeing Sean's list, it's not one that would work for me. First of all, you can't predict how a team will finish, you can't measure heart and guts and that guy who will drive the net to get the GTG or GWG, or the one who throws his body in front of a shot with 10 seconds left to save the game.
They are all part of variety of 'metrics' that if you use correctly, will work. But you still need guts, heart, soul, moxy and leadership.

Sean's list had Nashville down way too low and the BJ's as well. Same with some of the teams on the high end that seemed out of place.

I think defensive metrics work better, for me, because I've seen over the years, just how valuable some great defensive players (forwards and d) are and how critical they are to a team's success, esp in the playoffs. I can't tell you how many times , over the years, seeing that center who can shut it down, control the faceoff, use his stick and body to position himself and make the other team change their strategy. Players that have high IQ, vision and instincts, stuff that you can't measure but lead directly to W's.

So, the GM's who know how to do both, get the right blend, and the coach that uses them to their best advantage, they will be a team that wins.

Well said and I agree. If utilized properly, it provides an interesting insight on a particular collection of statistics.

I just see it being misused worse than Corsi.
 
Metrics, like most tools, are viable when they work with other instruments. After reading the GAR article, and seeing Sean's list, it's not one that would work for me. First of all, you can't predict how a team will finish, you can't measure heart and guts and that guy who will drive the net to get the GTG or GWG, or the one who throws his body in front of a shot with 10 seconds left to save the game.
They are all part of variety of 'metrics' that if you use correctly, will work. But you still need guts, heart, soul, moxy and leadership.

Sean's list had Nashville down way too low and the BJ's as well. Same with some of the teams on the high end that seemed out of place.

I think defensive metrics work better, for me, because I've seen over the years, just how valuable some great defensive players (forwards and d) are and how critical they are to a team's success, esp in the playoffs. I can't tell you how many times , over the years, seeing that center who can shut it down, control the faceoff, use his stick and body to position himself and make the other team change their strategy. Players that have high IQ, vision and instincts, stuff that you can't measure but lead directly to W's.

So, the GM's who know how to do both, get the right blend, and the coach that uses them to their best advantage, they will be a team that wins.

I agree with this so much.

I think especially of guys like Kopitar/Bergeron/Toews who take flak for not scoring 90 points but the reason they're amongst the league's elite is they outscore their matchup who is usually the 90 point guy.

Had this conversation the other day but it's still fresh in my mind how Boudreau couldn't hide Getzlaf deep enough in the lineup from Kopitar in the 2014 playoffs. Getzlaf is almost certainly the better offensive player, but I take prime Kopitar over prime Getzlaf head to head anyday.
 
I agree with this so much.

I think especially of guys like Kopitar/Bergeron/Toews who take flak for not scoring 90 points but the reason they're amongst the league's elite is they outscore their matchup who is usually the 90 point guy.

Had this conversation the other day but it's still fresh in my mind how Boudreau couldn't hide Getzlaf deep enough in the lineup from Kopitar in the 2014 playoffs. Getzlaf is almost certainly the better offensive player, but I take prime Kopitar over prime Getzlaf head to head anyday.

For me, I think it's because historically (and there are some , few, exceptions) for the media, defense isn't as sexy as offense. So the high octane offensive forwards get the ink. And I'm not taking anything away from those players, they are gifted. But I think in crunch time, in the 3rd period of playoff games when you're nursing a 1 goal lead, or in OT those defensive savvy centers are the ones good coaches lean on for a reason, esp in defensive zone starts.
And as good as they are, at what the do, you generally don't hear about it afterwards, the ink , the videos and laurel wreaths go to the goal scorers.
From way back, I've been a huge fan of those players and have come to accept the fact some of them (even the 3rd and 4th liners that are very good at shutting down) will never get the credit they deserve , except by their teammates and coaches.
 
For me, I think it's because historically (and there are some , few, exceptions) for the media, defense isn't as sexy as offense.

For the media, owners, GM's, and fans.

The goals and points players get the most money from the owners. Those are the guys GM's get into bidding wars for. Most fans hate coaches, or at least how coaches coach(aka, to keep their job), and they hate the players coaches love, since they're probably the boring players that get the boring job done in a consistently boring way.
 
When's training camp? I think we have a preseason game in a few weeks no?

All my summer teams suck. Need kings hockey.
 
When's training camp? I think we have a preseason game in a few weeks no?

All my summer teams suck. Need kings hockey.

September 13th. So a little over a week until we can start getting back into the swing of things. Long summers are the worst
 
physicals on the 11th. take the ice on the 12th. First preseason game on the 16th at Staples with the Canucks.
 
Rookie camp starts on the 8th so maybe we'll hear a little bit more on what's going on with Vilardi. At least we'll have something to tide us over for a few days until actual training camp starts.
 
Jon Rosen just came back from holiday today so lots of info should start to come about camp etc.
 
Just got a brand new sexy TV. Pricey as hell. But worth it. Excited to see Kopitar blow a tire again to Backlund again.
 
If nothing else, Blake is doing a good job conjuring up a variety of competition for roster spots out of thin air. Maybe none of these guys stick, but from Laich to Fantenburg, can't say he's not trying.
 
I think Vegas is going to win more games than people think. Plenty of teams are going to underestimate Vegas.
 

SUrprised they have the Hawks so high, their d took a pretty good hit and they lost Panarin . Crawford will have to be better, given the shift in the top 4.
I had the Oilers, Duck and Flames in the top 3 Pacific slots. Although Gibson and Miller are a good tandem and the do have a pretty balanced team, I think the Oilers will win more games, McD and Drais are the best center tandem in the West.
 
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I'd be curious to see a recap of goals added and lost by all teams in the west this offseason. The Kings would have to be near the bottom.
 

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