2017 Offseason Thread 5.0 Summer Doldrums

[kingsholygrail]

Guy finally has a legit ****** season and he's not even considered a top 10 center anymore. Written off pretty quickly, but it might be a good thing. Maybe it will motivate him.

 

[KINGS17]

Even Duck fans over on the trade board are defending Kopitar and expecting him to have a bounce back season. Crazy so many Kings fans have completely written him off.

I know many people are not, but I'm very optimistic he will have a MUCH better year.

Define much better, because if it's not 70+ points and Selke-like defense, he isn't worth the $10M cap hit. His $10M cap hit is one of the reasons he doesn't have the "help" he seems to need.

Guy finally has a legit ****** season and he's not even considered a top 10 center anymore. Written off pretty quickly, but it might be a good thing. Maybe it will motivate him.

Well, let's see:

Crosby
Malkin
Getzlaf
McDavid
Tavares
Bergeron
Backstrom
Draisaitl
Matthews
Carter

...in no particular order. Besides, isn't a guy with a $10M a year cap hit supposed to be a Top 5 center?

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

Guy finally has a legit ****** season and he's not even considered a top 10 center anymore. Written off pretty quickly, but it might be a good thing. Maybe it will motivate him.

It's part of the nature of this board, if you are at or near 30, you are garbage. There are Leaf fans on here who would seriously not trade Rielly or Liljegren for Doughty, because apparently the young unknown is worth more than one of the best defensemen in the game

 

[KINGS17]

It's part of the nature of this board, if you are at or near 30, you are garbage. There are Leaf fans on here who would seriously not trade Rielly or Liljegren for Doughty, because apparently the young unknown is worth more than one of the best defensemen in the game

Not garbage, you just aren't worth another 7 years at $10M a season.

I think Uncle Lou and Babcock would trade Liljegren and possibly Marner for Doughty in a heartbeat. We are talking about Kopitar here. Would they make a similar deal for him?

 

[KingsFan7824]

Still maybe the most amazing thing of all the amazing things from the 2014 playoffs, is that they beat both the Hawks and Rangers with 0 goals, 7 assists(5 at ES), and a +1 in those 12 games from Kopitar.

Unfortunately, it's plays like the Minnesota OT game, or the play where he got beat badly by Pavelski right off the faceoff that highlight the last few years for him. Now he's got the weight of the whole franchise almost all on his shoulders. The retirement contract, the C, and should Doughty leave, it'll be his team completely, win or lose, fair or not.

 

[BigKing]

He's never looked worse than he did on that Minnesota OT goal. That isn't a nagging injury thing but rather a complete lack of hockey IQ from a guy that generally has hockey IQ as one of his defining traits.

We can talk about all the posts he hit, his linemates and anything else to explain last season: there are just no explanations for that play.

I hold to my "having babies causes problems" theory so I'm hoping that was a big factor for his play last season. Looking tired and mental lapses could be attributed to a less-cushy home life. Maybe he was getting enough sleep and whatnot coupled with not being a 24 year old kid anymore.

 

[damacles1156]

Kopitar is almost at 1000 NHL regular games, has a lot of playoff hockey on his body also is not 25 years old anymore.

He has to change some things. Hopefully he started with his off-season training habits.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Define much better, because if it's not 70+ points and Selke-like defense, he isn't worth the $10M cap hit. His $10M cap hit is one of the reasons he doesn't have the "help" he seems to need.



Well, let's see:

Crosby
Malkin
Getzlaf
McDavid
Tavares
Bergeron
Backstrom
Draisaitl
Matthews
Carter

...in no particular order. Besides, isn't a guy with a $10M a year cap hit supposed to be a Top 5 center?

Ok, now you're just spouting off memes.

Check out the production difference between Kopitar and Tavares--it's minimal. Putting Tavares clearly better than Kopitar is some east coast media ********. That's before you factor in defensive game, matchups, advanced stats.

Malkin is generational when he's on the ice, but part of the reason Pittsburgh has struggled is he can't stay on it. We take Kopitar's relative health completely for granted.

Getzlaf got abused by Kopitar so badly year after year that Murray went out and got Kesler to protect him.

I don't want to badmouth Bergeron because he's ****ing phenomenal but he does produce less. I do think he's the runaway best defensive forward in the league though and he's much more versatile than he's given credit for. But clearly better than Kopitar? He outscored Kopi by a whopping ONE POINT last year and look at the execution of Anze.

Backstrom might legit be the most underrated player in the league but he's tough to read. I'd have to think Kopitar would be a little bit more productive on the highest scoring team in the league with a generational goal scorer on his wing. Yet outside of Backstrom's one truly insane 101 point year, they've been roughly the same production.

Draisaitl/Matthews/McDavid/probably Eichel taking over for everyone, not just Kopitar, and not just yet in some cases.

...Carter? really?

You're only help proving his point--people are forgetting the overwhelming evidence of Kopitar's dominance on his career to only remember his last futile season.

 

[KINGS17]

If Kopitar, like Toews, isn't clearly one of the Top 5 centers in the NHL, is he worth the $10M cap hit?

This is the issue as it affects the Kings ability to surround him with the depth of talent required to get the job done.

Sorry if I don't want to make excuses for the guy, but he didn't have to insist on $10M a season for 8 years. Now it's time to perform on a consistent basis, because it's what he is getting paid to do.

 

[justonetime]

Ok, now you're just spouting off memes.

Check out the production difference between Kopitar and Tavares--it's minimal. Putting Tavares clearly better than Kopitar is some east coast media ********. That's before you factor in defensive game, matchups, advanced stats.

Malkin is generational when he's on the ice, but part of the reason Pittsburgh has struggled is he can't stay on it. We take Kopitar's relative health completely for granted.

Getzlaf got abused by Kopitar so badly year after year that Murray went out and got Kesler to protect him.

I don't want to badmouth Bergeron because he's ****ing phenomenal but he does produce less. I do think he's the runaway best defensive forward in the league though and he's much more versatile than he's given credit for. But clearly better than Kopitar? He outscored Kopi by a whopping ONE POINT last year and look at the execution of Anze.

Backstrom might legit be the most underrated player in the league but he's tough to read. I'd have to think Kopitar would be a little bit more productive on the highest scoring team in the league with a generational goal scorer on his wing. Yet outside of Backstrom's one truly insane 101 point year, they've been roughly the same production.

Draisaitl/Matthews/McDavid/probably Eichel taking over for everyone, not just Kopitar, and not just yet in some cases.

...Carter? really?

You're only help proving his point--people are forgetting the overwhelming evidence of Kopitar's dominance on his career to only remember his last futile season.

I started to write a very similar post but you did a better job then I would have. Half those names are debatable, at best.

If Kopitar, like Toews, isn't clearly one of the Top 5 centers in the NHL, is he worth the $10M cap hit?

This is the issue as it affects the Kings ability to surround him with the depth of talent required to get the job done.

Sorry if I don't want to make excuses for the guy, but he didn't have to insist on $10M a season for 8 years. Now it's time to perform on a consistent basis, because it's what he is getting paid to do.

So now Kopitar has to be top 5 or he isn't good enough for you? Yes he has a big contract. As I'm sure you are aware, Toews was the comparable to Kopitar when he signed, and he actually took LESS then Toews. The market was set. I firmly believe it was in the Kings best interest to keep Kopitar, and I for one am glad they did.

Edit: Also, you are bitter towards him for how much he asked for? Since when do you have the right to tell somebody they shouldn't ask for what they feel like they deserve(and for what Toews, his comparable got)? Sure it would have been nice if he took less, but to vilify him for it? Give me a break.

 

[Rusty Batch]

If Kopitar, like Toews, isn't clearly one of the Top 5 centers in the NHL, is he worth the $10M cap hit?

This is the issue as it affects the Kings ability to surround him with the depth of talent required to get the job done.

Sorry if I don't want to make excuses for the guy, but he didn't have to insist on $10M a season for 8 years. Now it's time to perform on a consistent basis, because it's what he is getting paid to do.

Turn the page. You should just copy and paste this in 50% of your posts. I dont know how your not bored posting the same thing over and over.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Turn the page. You should just copy and paste this in 50% of your posts. I dont know how your not bored posting the same thing over and over.

i totally agree with this post

 

[damacles1156]

Define much better, because if it's not 70+ points and Selke-like defense, he isn't worth the $10M cap hit. His $10M cap hit is one of the reasons he doesn't have the "help" he seems to need.



Well, let's see:

Crosby
Malkin
Getzlaf
McDavid
Tavares
Bergeron
Backstrom
Draisaitl
Matthews
Carter

...in no particular order. Besides, isn't a guy with a $10M a year cap hit supposed to be a Top 5 center?

Sadly,

I think McDavid is the only guy on your list that cost more than Kopitar.

Pitt got extremely lucky with Signing Crosby/Malkin when they did.

 

[johnjm22]

Almost all those guys signed their contracts years ago. That's why their cap hits are lower.

 

[Little Psycho]

It's part of the nature of this board, if you are at or near 30, you are garbage. There are Leaf fans on here who would seriously not trade Rielly or Liljegren for Doughty, because apparently the young unknown is worth more than one of the best defensemen in the game

It's ridiculous. I know some are unhappy with his contract, but that's how the market works. Isn't everything overpriced nowadays?? Like I'm trying to buy a camera but I have recently found out even the discontinued kind from a few years ago will still cost me my arm.

 

[KINGS17]

Sadly,

I think McDavid is the only guy on your list that cost more than Kopitar.

Pitt got extremely lucky with Signing Crosby/Malkin when they did.

So, let's say each of those guys was making $10M. Is Anze Kopitar in their class today?

 

[KINGS17]

So now Kopitar has to be top 5 or he isn't good enough for you? Yes he has a big contract. As I'm sure you are aware, Toews was the comparable to Kopitar when he signed, and he actually took LESS then Toews. The market was set. I firmly believe it was in the Kings best interest to keep Kopitar, and I for one am glad they did.

Edit: Also, you are bitter towards him for how much he asked for? Since when do you have the right to tell somebody they shouldn't ask for what they feel like they deserve(and for what Toews, his comparable got)? Sure it would have been nice if he took less, but to vilify him for it? Give me a break.

Kopitar can ask for whatever he likes. When he gets it, it comes with the added responsibility. How have I vilified Kopitar? He isn't a villain. If there are any villains in this, it was Lombardi and others in the organization who were living in the past. He is open to criticism though, and his play last season warranted it.

No, I don't think the Kings should have given him 8 years. I said so the summer before he signed the contract as soon as the 2014-15 season was over.

The Hawks made a big mistake in giving Toews his deal as well.

Tell me today how it was in the Kings best interest to sign that deal.

 

[justonetime]

Kopitar can ask for whatever he likes. When he gets it, it comes with the added responsibility. How have I vilified Kopitar? He isn't a villain. If there are any villains in this, it was Lombardi and others in the organization who were living in the past. He is open to criticism though, and his play last season warranted it.

No, I don't think the Kings should have given him 8 years. I said so the summer before he signed the contract as soon as the 2014-15 season was over.

The Hawks made a big mistake in giving Toews his deal as well.

Tell me today how it was in the Kings best interest to sign that deal.

Instead of giving him 8 years what should they have done? Let him walk? Trade him?

And you were dead wrong in 2014-15, unless you predicted him having a Selke season THEN having an off year. You wanted to get rid of him before he had his best individual season, brilliant.

If he made 8.5 would you be complaining as much? Because that 1.5 million is 2% of the teams cap space.

How was it in the Kings best interest? Because you don't let your franchise center walk (or even trade him) over 2% of cap space.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

So, let's say each of those guys was making $10M. Is Anze Kopitar in their class today?

Most of them, yes.

Like others have said, many of those guys will be making the same when their contracts come around.

 

[The Tikkanen]

I think Kopitar's down year was due to lack of wingers, which hasn't been fixed unfortunately, Sutter and Quick going down. If you're the opposing coach you focus on shutting down Kopitar and the Kings can't score goals. This is probably the year where Toffoli and Pearson need to be bumped to first line duty and Carter is given the Sutter blender of line mates for the whole season.

 

[Stimpythecat]

I have a question. What does everyone think about the GAR stat? Goals above replacement?

I saw a stat from a hockey graphs contributor and I don't want to fall into the confirmation bias trap but it was unusual/interesting. So I want to get a few thoughts before I post it.

There was a thread on another section here but it didn't really have all that many posts.

 

[Sol]

Kopitar needs to have a very good season or everyone will take pitchforks to his house and hold gustel for ransom

 

[King'sPawn]

I have a question. What does everyone think about the GAR stat? Goals above replacement?

I saw a stat from a hockey graphs contributor and I don't want to fall into the confirmation bias trap but it was unusual/interesting. So I want to get a few thoughts before I post it.

There was a thread on another section here but it didn't really have all that many posts.

I hadn't heard of it. What does it measure, specifically?

 

[theMajor]

Kopitar needs to have a very good season or everyone will take pitchforks to his house and hold gustel for ransom

I think it would take nothing short of breaking Gretzky's records for a certain vocal few to put their pitchforks away

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I think it would take nothing short of breaking Gretzky's records for a certain vocal few to put their pitchforks away

Or maybe scoring more goals than Trevor Lewis? That could be a start. What does the resident apologist think?