2017 Offseason Thread 3.0

[Bandit]

Kings have a Charmin blue line without McNabb.

Nobody ever takes into account physical play from defenders on here, at least not many posters. Matt Greene in his prime was awesome yet he still got **** on during that time.

McNabb was brutal during the home stretch where the Kings fell off a cliff. He looked pretty damn good to start the season though before the injury. The hit he put on Sharp was unbelievable.

He has value and I'd prefer not to lose him for nothing. If he is selected, I hope MacDermid is able to step in because the defense is soft.

Ehhh, I think most people around here value physicality from the D, especially when guys like Green and Regehr were at the top of their games. Trouble is when they slow down and can't keep up anymore, then all they do is take penalties. It's hard to find guys that are physical and can play at pace. Our D is soft, no doubt.

Hopefully they can find someone to be that physical presence, don't know who it would be though.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Aside from throwing the occasional bug hit, McNabb is a bit of a cream puff himself. He's a pushover in front of his own net, players easily spin off or around him along the boards, and he's one of the worst dmen in Kings history when it comes to dropping the gloves. Worse than Doug Zmolek.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Ehhh, I think most people around here value physicality from the D, especially when guys like Green and Regehr were at the top of their games. Trouble is when they slow down and can't keep up anymore, then all they do is take penalties. It's hard to find guys that are physical and can play at pace. Our D is soft, no doubt.

Hopefully they can find someone to be that physical presence, don't know who it would be though.

Yes, a concern going forward. The Kings were known the last 5-6 years as being 'tough to play against' and that element seems to be lessening each year, the last 2 years with losses of Greene, Regehr and Clifford losing a bit of his game and Nolan not playing much.

Dealing Cernak doesn't help, (that dude is built) but hard to know if he will be an NHL player. Reddekopp is 6'4" 222 and appears to have a physical game. Matt Roy is said to be 'you know when you've been in a battle with him' , but he's 6'1" 205. RHD too, which is good.
74 pim in 42 games last yr at Mich Tech. Got in a scrap in Oontario in the last few games. How did that go?
And while Clague may be a future top 4 defenseman, he's not big. Moverare? Hard to project, but he's not overly physical.

It wouldn't hurt to get a D vet with toughness, that can play. Maybe drafting 6'4" 210 lb Callan Foote at #11 is not a bad idea. RHD too.

Callan Foote's Player Profile

ISS Hockey - Mar. 9th: "Two-way defenseman with high hockey IQ in all three zones. Almost never out of position on a play."

Jeff Marek of Sportsnet - Mar. 8th: "Will be a 12-year NHLer. A really solid, safe pick."

ISS Hockey - Feb. 8th: "Rock solid. Defensively shuts down the rush extremely well w/good positioning & active stick."

Mike Morreale NHL.com - Jan. 20th: "The 6-3, 213-pound son of former NHL defenseman Adam Foote probably won't be the physical presence his father was, but plays all situations and uses his smarts, reach and strength to contain his opponent and gain position."

Dennis Schellenberg Hockey Prospectus - Nov. 9th: "He is not afraid of playing physical and benefits from his big body and strength in battles. Possess decent shooting tools and is not only limited to a pure big and mean defender, but also distributes the puck smoothly and creates offence."

 

[KingsFan7824]

Of the 187 defensemen that played at least 41 games last year, the Kings had 6 in the top 72 in hits per game.

Arizona - 5
Montreal - 4
NYI - 4
NYR - 4
Winnipeg - 4
Ottawa - 3
Philly - 3
Buffalo - 3
Washington - 3
Boston - 3
Pittsburgh - 3
Edmonton - 3
Anaheim - 3
Colorado - 3
Vancouver - 3
Toronto - 2
Carolina - 2
San Jose - 2
Calgary - 2
Florida - 1
Columbus - 1
Detroit - 1
Tampa Bay - 1
Dallas - 1
St.Louis - 1
Nashville - 1
Chicago - 1
New Jersey - 0
Minnesota - 0

 

[SFKingshomer]

Kings need to somehow get 1 or 2 of the good young goalies exposed for expansion

 

[Winger23]

Kings need to somehow get 1 or 2 of the good young goalies exposed for expansion

Why? Goalies are always available. I wouldn't waste what limited assets the kings have...

 

[KingsHockey24]

Kings need to somehow get 1 or 2 of the good young goalies exposed for expansion

Jack Campbell was arguably the best goalie in the AHL last season. He'll be fine as a back-up. And if that doesnt work out there's Bernier, Miller, Condon, Kinkaid, etc.

 

[BigKing]

Greene was **** on regularly here before he lost his step.

Anyone that takes minor penalties and is physical gathers a group of haters on this board.

Agree that McNabb is soft in front. He's still the only one that looks to blow people up.

I could also care less if the Kings hit stat inflator pushes the Kings D into the top in hits. Impact hits are few and far between now.

 

[Fishhead]

McNabb has never looked that good. At best, tolerable. Poor work ethic to boot. Can't kill penalties. Forbort has blown way past McNabb.

Meh. We've been through this before

I'd like to see Forbort actually play like something other than a oil fire away from Doughty before I would say he's surpassed McNabb. I don't think there's a gap at all between the two, they both bring different things. I certainly wouldn't protect McNabb over him for salary reasons alone though.

The worst part of it is both of these guys are bottom pairing at best when the Kings were in top form. Neither of them would have been in the lineup on a regular basis, and both have seen top line time in the past couple years. Voynov really F'd this team with his actions.

 

[HookKing]

Meh. We've been through this before

I'd like to see Forbort actually play like something other than a oil fire away from Doughty before I would say he's surpassed McNabb. I don't think there's a gap at all between the two, they both bring different things. I certainly wouldn't protect McNabb over him for salary reasons alone though.

The worst part of it is both of these guys are bottom pairing at best when the Kings were in top form. Neither of them would have been in the lineup on a regular basis, and both have seen top line time in the past couple years. Voynov really F'd this team with his actions.

Forbort is the real deal. He's the main reason the Kings' pk became one of the best. Remind me why McNabb wasn't out there on the pk with DD? McNabb was frequently a healthy scratch for crissakes...taking skating lessons at 24, please. He would throw 1 nice hit per game along the boards -- bfd. He would miss more often than not.

Fair enough on pairing DF with someone other than DD but make it a legit right side D someone other than a washed up Greene or Gilbert.

 

[Docgonzo]

It's nice to have but I don't see a huge need for a big physical defenseman now days. Pens and Preds don't have and players like that, the big crease clearers. You need defensemen that can skate and move the puck quickly in transition, and if physical it's against the boards not open ice hits.

 

[BallPointHammer]

Somewhere recently heard Herschel Walker's name and reference to the trade he was a part of between the Cowboys and Vikings (NFL 1989). ESPN 30 for 30 did a short documentary on the story called "The Great Trade Robbery". Very interesting and well done. Relates easily to NHL, and particularily to Kings/Doughty/direction of the franchise discussion.

I couldn't figure out how to create a link to the film, so if someone wants to do that it would be great. Just google "the great trade robbery" - espn films: 30 for 30 and it takes you right to it. Thanks.

edit: see main board "trade rumors and free agent talk" - mtl / la (kopitar and chucky involved)

 

[KingsFan7824]

I could also care less if the Kings hit stat inflator pushes the Kings D into the top in hits. Impact hits are few and far between now.

Every team has that inflator though, and impact hits are few and far between all around the league.

 

[The Tikkanen]

The Kings need goals-they have 2 holes on wing on the top line. Worrying about hitting on defense and bottom 6 role players will put us right back to the boring hockey they played last season because of horrendous coaching and lack of talent. One of those issues was maybe fixed with Sutter fired and Stevens hired-we won't know until the season starts. The other issue has not been addressed. I'd be shocked if Blake focuses on hitting and bottom 6 role players. In the current NHL if you have Brodzinski-Kempe-Brown as your 3rd line you're fine. If you have those 3 on the 3rd line and Kopitar by himself again next season you're in a world of hurt. The 2 holes on the top line must be a top priority.

 

[LAKings88]

The Kings need goals-they have 2 holes on wing on the top line. Worrying about hitting on defense and bottom 6 role players will put us right back to the boring hockey they played last season because of horrendous coaching and lack of talent. One of those issues was maybe fixed with Sutter fired and Stevens hired-we won't know until the season starts. The other issue has not been addressed. I'd be shocked if Blake focuses on hitting and bottom 6 role players. In the current NHL if you have Brodzinski-Kempe-Brown as your 3rd line you're fine. If you have those 3 on the 3rd line and Kopitar by himself again next season you're in a world of hurt. The 2 holes on the top line must be a top priority.

This.

 

[KINGS17]

The Kings need goals-they have 2 holes on wing on the top line. Worrying about hitting on defense and bottom 6 role players will put us right back to the boring hockey they played last season because of horrendous coaching and lack of talent. One of those issues was maybe fixed with Sutter fired and Stevens hired-we won't know until the season starts. The other issue has not been addressed. I'd be shocked if Blake focuses on hitting and bottom 6 role players. In the current NHL if you have Brodzinski-Kempe-Brown as your 3rd line you're fine. If you have those 3 on the 3rd line and Kopitar by himself again next season you're in a world of hurt. The 2 holes on the top line must be a top priority.

The Kings don't have enough cap space to address these issues, and they don't have any talent in the farm system likely to solve this problem any time soon.

They may be able to move Martinez or Muzzin to help this situation, but I don't think a trading partner will just hand over what the Kings need in terms of a scoring winger. Maybe Kopitar can step his game up and actually make the wingers he plays with better scorers.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Agreed but I still think one Andreoff, Nolan or Clifford has a place on the bottom 6. I also think you need at one least one D willing to get his hands dirty especially in the West where we play the Ducks, Sharks, and Oilers on a consistent basis who all have at least one tough d man and tons of big forwards. Pittsburgh doesn't have to play those teams 4-5 times a year. Also, side note Rutherford is so mad about the Crosby and Malkin headshots and cheapshots he is looking for 1-2 tougher players in his bottom 6.

McNabb is not that great of a scrapper but he is a big boy that throws hard hits and can stand up for teammates, he is the only player left of that ilk. If Vegas takes him, the Kings D is soft. Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, LaDue, Gravel are all softies. Forbort has shown he willl stick up for a teammate but he is more of a Scuderi type. Kings already got schooled last year by a 19 year old and now we are making them softer. I have a feeling MacDermid gets a shot back there.

 

[KingsFan7824]

It comes down to roster spots. Between the guys that are here and not going anywhere, the guys that are apparently so bad or expensive that who knows why anyone would trade for them, and one or two guys from Ontario that they would probably like to promote(the way they do every year), how many actual roster spots are open up front?

 

[funky]

Agreed but I still think one Andreoff, Nolan or Clifford has a place on the bottom 6. I also think you need at one least one D willing to get his hands dirty especially in the West where we play the Ducks, Sharks, and Oilers on a consistent basis who all have at least one tough d man and tons of big forwards. Pittsburgh doesn't have to play those teams 4-5 times a year. Also, side note Rutherford is so mad about the Crosby and Malkin headshots and cheapshots he is looking for 1-2 tougher players in his bottom 6.

McNabb is not that great of a scrapper but he is a big boy that throws hard hits and can stand up for teammates, he is the only player left of that ilk. If Vegas takes him, the Kings D is soft. Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, LaDue, Gravel are all softies. Forbort has shown he willl stick up for a teammate but he is more of a Scuderi type. Kings already got schooled last year by a 19 year old and now we are making them softer. I have a feeling MacDermid gets a shot back there.

I think Blake's in this too and that's why he traded for and signed the kid out of Tampa Bay for the future. I would really like someone back there that was a little more Menacing as well but I just don't think McNabb is that guy. I hate using the "new NHL but I do believe that speed is here to stay and I would rather have six defenseman out there that can skate with the opposing team. Who out there would people be comfortable with that matches that description?

 

[KINGS17]

I think Blake's in this too and that's why he traded for and signed the kid out of Tampa Bay for the future. I would really like someone back there that was a little more Menacing as well but I just don't think McNabb is that guy. I hate using the "new NHL but I do believe that speed is here to stay and I would rather have six defenseman out there that can skate with the opposing team. Who out there would people be comfortable with that matches that description?

No less than four years ago size was here to stay.

 

[BigKing]

You can want to avoid a ***** defense and improve scoring. They aren't mutually exclusive ideas.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Somewhere recently heard Herschel Walker's name and reference to the trade he was a part of between the Cowboys and Vikings (NFL 1989). ESPN 30 for 30 did a short documentary on the story called "The Great Trade Robbery". Very interesting and well done. Relates easily to NHL, and particularily to Kings/Doughty/direction of the franchise discussion.

I couldn't figure out how to create a link to the film, so if someone wants to do that it would be great. Just google "the great trade robbery" - espn films: 30 for 30 and it takes you right to it. Thanks.

edit: see main board "trade rumors and free agent talk" - mtl / la (kopitar and chucky involved)

Interesting....the worst contract is Kopis. DL gave in too much to all of them on term and dollars...one telling thing was "Toffoli took one for the team and took less" That's what he wanted to convey, that TT was a team guy...What I heard was this "I was prepared to go a million more" ...I bet Blake could have got Kopi at 8.75
or so. In a way, it's worse than Brown's or Gaborik's deal, cuz it sets the bar for DD and screws us.

 

[BigKing]

Insane re: Blake gets Kopitar at $8.75M.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Interesting....the worst contract is Kopis. DL gave in too much to all of them on term and dollars...one telling thing was "Toffoli took one for the team and took less" That's what he wanted to convey, that TT was a team guy...What I heard was this "I was prepared to go a million more" ...I bet Blake could have got Kopi at 8.75
or so. In a way, it's worse than Brown's or Gaborik's deal, cuz it sets the bar for DD and screws us.

When the time, has come, and the land is dark, and the moon, is the only, light we'll see...

No reason to think Kopitar could've been signed for $8.75 by any GM anywhere.

 

[KINGS17]

Interesting....the worst contract is Kopis. DL gave in too much to all of them on term and dollars...one telling thing was "Toffoli took one for the team and took less" That's what he wanted to convey, that TT was a team guy...What I heard was this "I was prepared to go a million more" ...I bet Blake could have got Kopi at 8.75
or so. In a way, it's worse than Brown's or Gaborik's deal, cuz it sets the bar for DD and screws us.

I wouldn't assume this. I don't put much stock in what Hoven says, but he indicated Blake and Robitaille were involved in getting the Kopitar negotiation jump started after it stalled.

Remember Lombardi's first comment was the two sides weren't even in the same ballpark. Then Kopitar ends up getting exactly what he wanted.