2017 NHL Draft Discussion

[Butch 19]

Matty Ekholm, Mike Hoffman and Sami Vatanen were certainly good selections post 2nd round, no doubt.

You can look back at any draft and say this about any club on how they missed on someone. It's a common theme throughout.

Yeah, all teams miss on picks, but right now with the Kings, it's the QUANTITY of weak picks that stings.

Outside of Toffoli and Lewis (and Lewis a bit of a stretch) what young homegrown forward talent do we have?

 

[Rusty Batch]

Yeah, all teams miss on picks, but right now with the Kings, it's the QUANTITY of weak picks that stings.

Outside of Toffoli and Lewis (and Lewis a bit of a stretch) what young homegrown forward talent do we have?

Pearson for sure. Then obviously there are a bunch of other young ones led by Kempe. But yeah no real star power.

 

[King'sPawn]

How many top six forwards has this staff discovered, drafted and developed in however many years? Yeah, they're the beacons of draft success. No other team in the league is capable of finding a slew of grinders. The Kings always find success with every one of their draft selections. They've never made regrettable mistakes that make us question them. Ever!

You're right. The scouts don't know what they're doing. They should have just given away Ben Bishop for free to spare the scouts the embarrassment of blowing a 4th round pick.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Pearson for sure. Then obviously there are a bunch of other young ones led by Kempe. But yeah no real star power.

Only two top six forwards in 11 drafts.

The scouts have an excellent eye for talent.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You're right. The scouts don't know what they're doing. They should have just given away Ben Bishop for free to spare the scouts the embarrassment of blowing a 4th round pick.

Eh, it's a fourth, it's like buying a lottery ticket. Their lack of results in the early rounds is what's set the team back and supplied Ontario with barely any talent.

Meanwhile there's a select group of homers who think they can do no wrong and are constantly hitting home runs with their second round selections, even after the fact that their last second rounder worth a damn was selected in 2010.

And yet we wonder why some holes can't be filled internally...

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Without going over this yet again, there's been a real lack of high picks in the past few years for glaringly obvious reasons. Yet the Kings scouting staff has still been batting VERY high. We've audited team after team for several posters and despite the Kings being a top drafting team as per the results nothing is ever enough, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As far as this draft, it's a little dishonest to hold the past against the current. Let's stay on topic and post constructively.

 

[Fishhead]

Only two top six forwards in 11 drafts.

The scouts have an excellent eye for talent.

To be fair, Simmonds and Schenn were in those drafts, and I would call them top 6 guys. They were just traded to put the team over the top. I would say the Kings are at least middle of the pack when it comes to finding top-6ers in the draft. They are obviously above average at identifying defense. Overall the scouting is anything but a problem.

 

[kings11]

Only two top six forwards in 11 drafts.

The scouts have an excellent eye for talent.

some truth to your statement but also a lot of assumptions without taking into consideration draft philosophy and trades ...

2007
Thomas Hickey..NYI, NHL player but bust for his draft slot
Wayne Simmonds..PHI, Top 6 player
Alec Martinez...LAK, Offensive Dman currently a top4 Man for us
Dwight King...MTL, good bottom 6 player

2008
Drew Doughty...LAK, franchise cornerstone, Norris winner..etc
Slava Voynov...USSR, was a top4 Dman

2009
Brayden Schenn...PHI, top 6 player
Kyle Clifford...LAK, has outlived his purpose
Nic Deslauriers...BUF, bottom 6 player
JF Berube...NYI, back up goaltender
Linden Vey...CAL, bottom 6 player
Jordan Nolan...LAK, bottom 6 player
Nic Dowd...LAK, 3C for our Kings

2010
Derek Forbort...LAK, top4 Dman, late bloomer
Tyler Toffoli...LAK, sniper...top 6 player
Jordan Weal...UFA, looked the part of more than just a bottom 6
Kevin Gravel...LAK, 1/3 of our defensive youth movement

2011
Andy Andreoff...LAK, See Kyle Clifford
Nick Shore...LAK, bottom 6 player
Micheal Mersch...LAK, top 9 skillset, molasses slow

2012
Tanner Pearson...LAK, top 6 player
Nikolay Prokhorkin...USSR, top 6 type talent..
Colin Miller...BOS, top4 Dman talent
Paul LaDue...LAK, 1/3 of our defensive youth movement

2013
Valentin Zykov...CAR, bottom 6 player
Hudson Fasching...BUF, bottom 6 player
Jonny Brodzinski...LAK, top9 player maybe even top 6 ...
Dominik Kubalik...EUR, fascinating player

2014
Adrian Kempe...LAK, looking like he'll be at minimum a 3C..top 9 player
Roland McKeown...CAR, will be an NHL Dman
Alex Lintuniemi...LAK, solid prospect
Michael Amadio...LAK, looks like the second coming of Mike Richards

2015
Erik Cernak...TB, will be an NHL Dman
Alexander Dergachyov...USSR, looks like a top 9 player
Austin Wagner...LAK, looks like a better all around Trevor Lewis
Chaz Reddekopp...LAK, late blooming prospect
Matt Roy...LAK, late blooming prospect

2016
Kale Clague...LAK, looks like a future top4 Dman
Jacob Moverare...LAK, solid prospect

SO lets say Simmonds, Schenn, Toffoli, Pearson are top 6, and a whole bunch of other guys are top 9 and bottom 6 player ... we've also drafted really well in the Dman department but traded away lots to stay competitive... SO ziggysnortstoomuchdust.... what are you complaining about again?? we won 2 cups, did everything possible to extend our window and it seems the new FO will likely do the same so just get over it

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I wish I could continue to live in the past like some of you. The team was built through the draft, and a lot of it was helped by what the management group prior to Lombardi's arrival put in place.

After the team entered a "win now" mode, the trading of high picks has set the team back, as have the number of misses they've had with their first selections.

A majority of teams can draft a King or Andreoff or Nolan with their 3rd or later picks, but the numbers of misses and fails with their second round selections and not having brought in or developed forwards to move in to productive roles is why this team has been in a rut, spinning its wheels since 2015.

Have the Kings hit on a Hoffman or Kucherov or Benn or Arvidsson or Stone or Pageau or Silfverberg or Guentzel or Rust or Sheary or Point or Palat in later rounds?

That's a dozen names of forwards who can put up numbers, and none of them were high draft selections. Know how many of those this scouting staff has had?

But hey, homers will find a way to spin things because it's too difficult for some to admit and to accept the truth. This scouting staff is slightly above average.

I haven't even touched on the sorry state of goaltending in the pipeline. Only one drafted goaltender, and that came from the previous management way back in 2005.

At least this team is oozing with character. It's taken them so far over the past three years.

 

[damacles1156]

I wish I could continue to live in the past like some of you. The team was built through the draft, and a lot of it was helped by what the management group prior to Lombardi's arrival put in place.

After the team entered a "win now" mode, the trading of high picks has set the team back, as have the number of misses they've had with their first selections.

A majority of teams can draft a King or Andreoff or Nolan with their 3rd or later picks, but the numbers of misses and fails with their second round selections and not having brought in or developed forwards to move in to productive roles is why this team has been in a rut, spinning its wheels since 2015.

Have the Kings hit on a Hoffman or Kucherov or Benn or Arvidsson or Stone or Pageau or Silfverberg or Guentzel or Rust or Sheary or Point or Palat in later rounds?

That's a dozen names of forwards who can put up numbers, and none of them were high draft selections. Know how many of those this scouting staff has had?

But hey, homers will find a way to spin things because it's too difficult for some to admit and to accept the truth. This scouting staff is slightly above average.

I haven't even touched on the sorry state of goaltending in the pipeline. Only one drafted goaltender, and that came from the previous management way back in 2005.

At least this team is oozing with character. It's taken them so far over the past three years.

It's not even oozing Character.

Trevor Lewis has Character, which prospect/(Current roster player) works like Lewis does ?

I would argue Amadio/Pearson/Shore/Quick(Maybe Brown?), that's it.

 

[Fishhead]

I wish I could continue to live in the past like some of you. The team was built through the draft, and a lot of it was helped by what the management group prior to Lombardi's arrival put in place.

After the team entered a "win now" mode, the trading of high picks has set the team back, as have the number of misses they've had with their first selections.

A majority of teams can draft a King or Andreoff or Nolan with their 3rd or later picks, but the numbers of misses and fails with their second round selections and not having brought in or developed forwards to move in to productive roles is why this team has been in a rut, spinning its wheels since 2015.

Have the Kings hit on a Hoffman or Kucherov or Benn or Arvidsson or Stone or Pageau or Silfverberg or Guentzel or Rust or Sheary or Point or Palat in later rounds?

That's a dozen names of forwards who can put up numbers, and none of them were high draft selections. Know how many of those this scouting staff has had?

But hey, homers will find a way to spin things because it's too difficult for some to admit and to accept the truth. This scouting staff is slightly above average.

I haven't even touched on the sorry state of goaltending in the pipeline. Only one drafted goaltender, and that came from the previous management way back in 2005.

At least this team is oozing with character. It's taken them so far over the past three years.

To me, this is the problem more than the scouting. Picks were traded like crazy.

Getting a guy like Benn is incredibly rare. Even guys like Stone are. Hard to fault a scouting staff when every year 29 teams don't get a late round gem. Would be nice to have one but it's not like every team has them.

 

[King'sPawn]

To me, this is the problem more than the scouting. Picks were traded like crazy.

Getting a guy like Benn is incredibly rare. Even guys like Stone are. Hard to fault a scouting staff when every year 29 teams don't get a late round gem. Would be nice to have one but it's not like every team has them.

This is where you're wrong. It's easy to get Benn. All you need is a fifth round pick and a non-LA Kings scouting staff.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

This is where you're wrong. It's easy to get Benn. All you need is a fifth round pick and a non-LA Kings scouting staff.

This is where you're wrong. It's easy to get Clifford, Gibson, Cernak, Zykov, Lintuniemi, etc. All you need is a second round pick and an LA Kings scouting staff.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This is where you're wrong. It's easy to get Clifford, Gibson, Cernak, Zykov, Lintuniemi, etc. All you need is a second round pick and an LA Kings scouting staff.

It's easy to cherry pick when you pit literally 9 teams up against LA.

I'll take you seriously when you do your own homework and actually examine another team's drafts. In the meantime, you're just blustering by calling those that have done it to see otherwise 'homers.' But if it makes you feel better, keep venting.

Here, deconstruct this for me: http://news.nationalpost.com/sports...-teams-find-gems-in-later-rounds-of-nhl-draft

Edit: I should add that if your criticism is about recent years that's fine, I don't think anyone really disagrees, but it's not because the scouts suddenly forgot, after years and years of success, how to scout--it's a lack of picks more than anything else as well as, imo, swinging at some 'projects' like Lintuniemi and Cernak and Zykov since it looked like the roster wasn't going anywhere anytime soon (feel free to disagree with that part, it's just my opinion).

Kind of an aside but I really don't get all the venom about the Clifford pick specifically. The guy was a monster who has served his role well and only toned it down after getting completely smashed for his team. Sure, you WANT more offense from a 2nd rounder, and Cliffy never really developed it--but he's good enough to play the enforcer role while taking a regular shift and has scored some big playoff goals for our team. No, you don't want a whole roster of Cliffords, but that's a really strange pick to have a problem with imo.

Gibson is a laugher though, I don't think anyone will disagree with you there he was almost the Teubert of goalies.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It's not even oozing Character.

Trevor Lewis has Character, which prospect/(Current roster player) works like Lewis does ?

I would argue Amadio/Pearson/Shore/Quick(Maybe Brown?), that's it.

Pearson has some major guts. Shore for a bottom sixer maybe, but still soft. Amadio has a long way to go but he showed a TON of moxie and leadership in junior, I don't think that evaporated, but then again Brayden Schenn, so...

 

[KingsFan7824]

I wish I could continue to live in the past like some of you. The team was built through the draft, and a lot of it was helped by what the management group prior to Lombardi's arrival put in place.

After the team entered a "win now" mode, the trading of high picks has set the team back, as have the number of misses they've had with their first selections.

A majority of teams can draft a King or Andreoff or Nolan with their 3rd or later picks, but the numbers of misses and fails with their second round selections and not having brought in or developed forwards to move in to productive roles is why this team has been in a rut, spinning its wheels since 2015.

Have the Kings hit on a Hoffman or Kucherov or Benn or Arvidsson or Stone or Pageau or Silfverberg or Guentzel or Rust or Sheary or Point or Palat in later rounds?

That's a dozen names of forwards who can put up numbers, and none of them were high draft selections. Know how many of those this scouting staff has had?

But hey, homers will find a way to spin things because it's too difficult for some to admit and to accept the truth. This scouting staff is slightly above average.

I haven't even touched on the sorry state of goaltending in the pipeline. Only one drafted goaltender, and that came from the previous management way back in 2005.

At least this team is oozing with character. It's taken them so far over the past three years.

The better question for Ottawa would be why didn't they take Rust with the 76th pick in 2010. They took a guy that never played an NHL game. Or why they took Marcus Sorensen, a Swede, with the 106th pick in 2010, instead of John Klingberg, also a Swede, who fell to 131. That's crappy drafting. They also took Zibanejad over Scheifele. Then with their other two 1st round picks in 2011, they took Noesen and Puempel over Rakell. Noesen was even a teammate of Rakell in junior. How do you watch the wrong guy like that? They could've gotten Saad or Kucherov, or even Jenner over those two nothing picks.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That article goes back to the 2005 draft, which nobody on this scouting staff can receive any credit for. You think Lombardi with his penchant of drafting gritty, Ontario or Western league players, would have even given Kopitar a sniff in 2005? We're probably fortunate Lombardi wasn't the GM then, given the need for defense that the pipeline lacked, he'd have likely gone with Marc Staal.

In 11 drafts, I'm looking at how hits and misses they've had, mostly with their second round selections since they became a playoff team in 2010. Toffoli was the last good one there. There have been far more misses since with their earliest selection. Look at how many of those picks that they made in the 2nd round have been moved too.

Then I look to see if they've made up for those misses with their first and/or second selections to see if they've found a talented, productive forward (not a Jordan Nolan or Dwight King). They haven't had any. They've done well in those rounds in finding grinders and dmen, but that's all they've been able to identify when they hit on those picks.

Brodzinski may be the only one in the pipeline who may buck the trend, but the jury is still out on him.

Just look no further than Ontario. They have more journeymen on offense than homegrown talent.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The better question for Ottawa would be why didn't they take Rust with the 76th pick in 2010. They took a guy that never played an NHL game. Or why they took Marcus Sorensen, a Swede, with the 106th pick in 2010, instead of John Klingberg, also a Swede, who fell to 131. That's crappy drafting. They also took Zibanejad over Scheifele. Then with their other two 1st round picks in 2011, they took Noesen and Puempel over Rakell. Noesen was even a teammate of Rakell in junior. How do you watch the wrong guy like that? They could've gotten Saad or Kucherov, or even Jenner over those two nothing picks.

Have to wonder about Pageau, too. Johnny Gaudreau was picked mere picks later. What a blown pick. Especially for a guy who scored less this year than Alec Martinez.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

That article goes back to the 2005 draft, which nobody on this scouting staff can receive any credit for. You think Lombardi with his penchant of drafting gritty, Ontario or Western league players, would have even given Kopitar a sniff in 2005? We're probably fortunate Lombardi wasn't the GM then, given the need for defense that the pipeline lacked, he'd have likely gone with Marc Staal.

In 11 drafts, I'm looking at how hits and misses they've had, mostly with their second round selections since they became a playoff team in 2010. Toffoli was the last good one there. There have been far more misses since with their earliest selection. Look at how many of those picks that they made in the 2nd round have been moved too.

Then I look to see if they've made up for those misses with their first and/or second selections to see if they've found a talented, productive forward (not a Jordan Nolan or Dwight King). They haven't had any. They've done well in those rounds in finding grinders and dmen, but that's all they've been able to identify when they hit on those picks.

Brodzinski may be the only one in the pipeline who may buck the trend, but the jury is still out on him.

Just look no further than Ontario. They have more journeymen on offense than homegrown talent.

Great. Now do that for other teams too so you understand just how good the Kings draft team is. You're having a really hard time seeing the forest for the trees.

And to the bottom, you're again deliberately ignoring why.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Great. Now do that for other teams too so you understand just how good the Kings draft team is. You're having a really hard time seeing the forest for the trees.

And to the bottom, you're again deliberately ignoring why.

Ignoring what exactly? They called up two forwards from Ontario this season. So where's this abundance of talent that I'm not seeing? Did they all graduate to the NHL? Nope. Were they all traded away? Some were, like Weal and Vey, but where are all the other draft picks since 2010? You say I'm ignoring facts, what exactly am I ignoring? Your excuses?

 

[King'sPawn]

This is where you're wrong. It's easy to get Clifford, Gibson, Cernak, Zykov, Lintuniemi, etc. All you need is a second round pick and an LA Kings scouting staff.

I know, right? I don't even know why the Kings show up at the draft table. The Kings should just auto pick based off the highest ranked player remaining from one of the scouting services.

Now I know why Dean traded away all those picks. He realizes how terrible his scouts are. Hopefully Blake follows suit so we don't waste our time.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The better question for Ottawa would be why didn't they take Rust with the 76th pick in 2010. They took a guy that never played an NHL game. Or why they took Marcus Sorensen, a Swede, with the 106th pick in 2010, instead of John Klingberg, also a Swede, who fell to 131. That's crappy drafting. They also took Zibanejad over Scheifele. Then with their other two 1st round picks in 2011, they took Noesen and Puempel over Rakell. Noesen was even a teammate of Rakell in junior. How do you watch the wrong guy like that? They could've gotten Saad or Kucherov, or even Jenner over those two nothing picks.

I'm not expecting home run picks in every draft, but my point was that the Kings haven't had any of those types of selections since... Kimmo Timonen or Robert Lang.

At least they didn't trade up to acquire another top 13 draft pick in the deepest draft in recent memory and pass on a talent like Karlsson in favor of Teubert. And if you read comments from that draft, that selection was done to address a need and wasn't a selection of the best player available.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I know, right? I don't even know why the Kings show up at the draft table. The Kings should just auto pick based off the highest ranked player remaining from one of the scouting services.

Now I know why Dean traded away all those picks. He realizes how terrible his scouts are. Hopefully Blake follows suit so we don't waste our time.

Maybe you could also provide us with silly scouting reports with unrealistic expectations based on scrimmages. I'm sure Yanick Lehoux, Pete Kanko, Mark Rooney and Greg Hogeboom are going to pan out any day now.

And you could take any overhyped Kings prospect and insert their names in there as well in the not so distant future.

FYI, the last Kings pick to appear in any significant role was Pearson in 2012.

With the 2013 draft, the most amount of games played by a Kings drafted prospect is Hudson Fasching, with 17 games.

Kempe was one of 10 Kings selections in 2014, and the only one to appear in any NHL games.

Obviously no Kings prospects from the last two drafts have moved up the ranks.

I guess I'm committing blasphemy by pointing out such facts. The machine just keeps churning out high quality prospects and home runs with every pick. I guess all the other unbiased hockey media that ranks the Kings' prospect pool dead last in the NHL just don't know what they're talking about. You guys know a hell a lot more than anyone else.

 

[King'sPawn]

Maybe you could also provide us with silly scouting reports with unrealistic expectations based on scrimmages. I'm sure Yanick Lehoux, Pete Kanko, Mark Rooney and Greg Hogeboom are going to pan out any day now.

And you could take any overhyped Kings prospect and insert their names in there as well in the not so distant future.

Why would I waste time watching a bunch of losers that the staff who can't spot talent picked? And as you pointed out, why should I waste time at a hobby I apparently suck at?

You guys are right. The Kings not only stupidly value character over talent, but they can't even spot character.

They pick two wife beaters in Voynov and Bartosak. They trade for Richards and Stoll, who got arrested for illegal substances. Brown, Kopitar, Doughty, Toffoli, Pearson, etc can't lead the team. Quick is a groin pull away from the Kings being a lottery team next year, which they will screw up, too.

You and the media pundits are right. The Kings suck at drafting and developing. I'm not even trying to fight with facts to prove otherwise.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Thank so for proving my point of living in the past, as it's been half a decade since their last meaningful draft selection.

We've been wanting to see an injection of youth in the forward corps, but what options have they had to bring up? The 26-year old Nic Dowd?

I get it, you homers tend to overrate prospects. None of you can answer as to why they haven't drafted a regular forward skating a regular shift in the NHL since 2012. The last goalie they drafted to play in the NHL was in 2006. And if you add Martin Jones in there, the last successful goalie they discovered was in 2008.

But I guess bringing up facts and poking holes in the opinions of biased posters is a futile exercise.

Go on and continue to live in the past.