2017 NHL Draft Discussion

[KINGS17]

It most likely will be the only Cups the Kings win in our lifetime.

This is a guaranteed outcome if we are going back to the "just make the playoffs and anything can happen" mentality which existed before Lombardi arrived.

People will point to 2012 and say it's what happened, but they are wrong. There was a plan, and Lombardi had the right pieces in Schenn, Simmonds, Johnson, and a 1st round pick to get the pieces (primarily Richards and Carter) he needed to put the team over the top.

The current roster isn't a player or two away from contention, and even if they were Blake (thanks in large part to Lombardi's moves over the last 3 seasons) certainly doesn't have the assets to get whatever is missing.

So now we get to listen to Luc BS everyone. Well, I'm not buying what they are selling at the moment.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Is Zykov playing anywhere

He's mostly been a minor leaguer, having spent the past two seasons with the Charlotte Checkers, though he was called up late in the season and scored a goal in his first game, then got injured in his second game. His NHL career highlights thus far...





His numbers in the AHL up to this point have been quite average. They didn't lose much in trading him, but they also gained nothing from the trade and he'll be looked upon as another wasted 2nd round selection that others will make excuses for.

 

[Fat Elvis]

I think the drafts from 2012-2016 were influenced by DL and company trying to keep their "Cup window" open. Moved quite a few picks, selected "safer" character guy who've worn A's and C's. DL also wanted to keep his Core together, while other teams made some difficult changes. Right or wrong, it didn't pan out like hoped.
But damn I'm happy about the 2 Cups.
I'm curious to see how their approach is different going forward. Curious to see what Blake does with the Core going forward. It's nice to see him add some FA pieces so far, hope they are players.

 

[KingsFan7824]

But I guess if they continue to suck for the next 40+ years, we can just fondly look back at what they did from 2012 to 2014. Hell, those might be the only Cup victories we may see in our lifetime. I bet Flyers fans expected more than just a couple of Cups when the Broadstreet Bullies dominated the league, or a loaded Avalanche team that only ended up with two Cups and haven't had any success since 2001.

Yes, and the Flyers didn't win more, the Avs didn't win more, the Wings got one more after Yzerman, the Penguins happened to get Crosby and Malkin after Lemieux and Jagr, the Devils aren't what they used to be, the Stars aren't what they used to be, the Canadiens, Islanders, and Oilers are a far cry from what they used to be.

You can have all the Cup expectations you want, but it doesn't mean anything. The Flyers have gotten to what, 4 or 5 Finals since those 70's Cup wins? That's once a decade. They ran into teams better than them when they got there. If you're expecting a Cup in a particular season, you're probably going to be disappointed, no matter what the plan is, or who the GM is, or which players are on the team, or how cheap and productive they are.

If you're Cup or nothing, that's fine. Fans can be fans however they choose to be fans. You're just going to be disappointed most of the time. Franchises have few opportunities to win 2 Cups in 3 years. Maybe they Kings win another odd Cup here or there over the next 30 years, but it probably won't be like it was from 2012 to 2014 again. Just like this isn't the 1950's for Montreal anymore. It doesn't matter how great McDavid is, the Oilers probably won't have 6 or 7 HoF guys all together at the same time again.

 

[AlphaBravo]

This is a guaranteed outcome if we are going back to the "just make the playoffs and anything can happen" mentality which existed before Lombardi arrived.

People will point to 2012 and say it's what happened, but they are wrong. There was a plan, and Lombardi had the right pieces in Schenn, Simmonds, Johnson, and a 1st round pick to get the pieces (primarily Richards and Carter) he needed to put the team over the top.

The current roster isn't a player or two away from contention, and even if they were Blake (thanks in large part to Lombardi's moves over the last 3 seasons) certainly doesn't have the assets to get whatever is missing.

So now we get to listen to Luc BS everyone. Well, I'm not buying what they are selling at the moment.

How are we not a player or two away from being contenders? As things stand now, our second line of Pearson-Carter-Toffoli is completely set and is very competitive with the best teams in the NHL.

Our first line is lacking one top 6 winger for Kopitar. Someone like Oshie or Radulov will make our first line competitive and also help Kopitar rebound back to his true form.

With respect to the third line, that largely depends on Blake either making a depth signing in the offseason or our youth becoming solid 10-15 goal scorers next season. For example, a third line of Kempe/Brodzinski-Brown-Lewis is very competitive in the league. Brown could definitely reach 15 goals with the way he has been playing. Lewis is good for about 10 goals as well. Kempe and Brodzinksi are unknowns, but I think one of them could become consistent 15+ goal scorers.

The fourth line just needs to play a strong checking game, and I am sure a combination of Shore, Dowd, Clifford, Nolan, Andreoff (depending on who is on the team) can get the job done.

With respect to defense, LaDue and Forbort did a great job filling the void we had in the top 4, and I think they will continue to get better, especially LaDue.

Lastly, we have an elite goalie in Quick.

This team will be fine assuming we don't have catastrophic injuries like last season. This whole doom and gloom on the board is way to extreme.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

How are we not a player or two away from being contenders? As things stand now, our second line of Pearson-Carter-Toffoli is completely set and is very competitive with the best teams in the NHL.

Our first line is lacking one top 6 winger for Kopitar. Someone like Oshie or Radulov will make our first line competitive and also help Kopitar rebound back to his true form.

With respect to the third line, that largely depends on Blake either making a depth signing in the offseason or our youth becoming solid 10-15 goal scorers next season. For example, a third line of Kempe/Brodzinski-Brown-Lewis is very competitive in the league. Brown could definitely reach 15 goals with the way he has been playing. Lewis is good for about 10 goals as well. Kempe and Brodzinksi are unknowns, but I think one of them could become consistent 15+ goal scorers.

The fourth line just needs to play a strong checking game, and I am sure a combination of Shore, Dowd, Clifford, Nolan, Andreoff (depending on who is on the team) can get the job done.

With respect to defense, LaDue and Forbort did a great job filling the void we had in the top 4, and I think they will continue to get better, especially LaDue.

Lastly, we have an elite goalie in Quick.

This team will be fine assuming we don't have catastrophic injuries like last season. This whole doom and gloom on the board is way to extreme.

Kopitar is only missing one winger? Did I miss someone that they acquired who will be playing alongside him, or is Gaborik going to make a miraculous recovery?

I look at how weak the Kings are down the middle and have little depth on wings. They're actually lacking in depth at every position throughout the organization.

It's not "doom and gloom." It's reality.

 

[King'sPawn]

Kopitar is only missing one winger? Did I miss someone that they acquired who will be playing alongside him, or is Gaborik going to make a miraculous recovery?

I look at how weak the Kings are down the middle and have little depth on wings. They're actually lacking in depth at every position throughout the organization.

It's not "doom and gloom." It's reality.

For all we've argued, I genuinely agree with this. The cupboard is bare, and I am hoping there is more of an emphasis on skill.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

For all we've argued, I genuinely agree with this. The cupboard is bare, and I am hoping there is more of an emphasis on skill.

That's pretty much my contention with the scouting though. Lombardi used to always say that the draft and development was the lifeblood of running a franchise. As players come and go, they have to be replaced internally with younger players who are ready to make the jump.

Lombardi used to take pride in having his team's get better and also younger each year, and as the young players grew with more experience and into leaders, they replaced the older vets, and in came another influx of young players to continue that cycle.

The Red Wings went from having Yzerman, Fedorov, Larionov and Draper down the middle to Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula and Helm. That transition was over a 5-year period, winning Cups in 2002 and 2007. They have struggled due to the fact that they weren't able to replace Datsyuk and Filppula and have lost a lot of depth over the years.

The Kings, though not as old or in as much of a dire situation as Detroit, may find themselves in a similar situation in a couple of years. Who's coming in to replace the production that Brown and Gaborik used to provide as top line options? They lost Williams in 2015 and Lucic in 2016 and they haven't been replaced. Toffoli and Pearson made the jump after the Kings lost Penner and parted ways with Simon Gagne (not to mention that Frattin didn't work out and Richards slid down the depth charts).

The Kings haven't evolved, hence the extreme criticism that they've drawn for churning their wheels and being stuck in a rut over three consecutive seasons. Lombardi got away from his own philosophy of team building, the number of prospects coming up has stagnated, and now the team is trying to catch up from a series of mistakes and unfortunate events that have taken place since they last lifted the Cup.

If those are the only Cup wins we witness in our lifetimes, so be it, at least we got to witness what we thought would be the impossible after so many years of suffering through a series of different owners, coaches, managers and players. I just want this team to be competitive and to at the very least be a playoff team. A team with Kopitar, Doughty, Carter, Quick, Pearson, Toffoli, etc. should be able to do that.

 

[Basilisk]

The fourth line just needs to play a strong checking game, and I am sure a combination of Shore, Dowd, Clifford, Nolan, Andreoff (depending on who is on the team) can get the job done.

And speaking of Nolan.....


Was I the only one who noticed that Nolan's shooting % this season was amongst the highest on the team? It would not surprise me if the dude came back & had a near break-out season. Remember Scott Barney? Remember when Barney came back & started scoring goals nobody expected him to score? Yeah, that could conceivably happen with Nolan next season.....

 

[kovacro]

And speaking of Nolan.....


Was I the only one who noticed that Nolan's shooting % this season was amongst the highest on the team? It would not surprise me if the dude came back & had a near break-out season. Remember Scott Barney? Remember when Barney came back & started scoring goals nobody expected him to score? Yeah, that could conceivably happen with Nolan next season.....

Scott Barney scored 5 goals in 03/04' (19 games) after his brief cup of coffee the previous year where he failed to find the back of the net.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=23719

So what is Jordan Nolan's 'breakout' season if you use the Scott Barney comparison, 10 goals?

 

[Noonan61]

If we got 10 goals from Nolan on the 4th line, that will be an amazing season from him. Getting a double digit goalscorer on the 4th line is money.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Kopitar is only missing one winger? Did I miss someone that they acquired who will be playing alongside him, or is Gaborik going to make a miraculous recovery?

I look at how weak the Kings are down the middle and have little depth on wings. They're actually lacking in depth at every position throughout the organization.

It's not "doom and gloom." It's reality.

What "miraculous recovery" are you talking about? Injury or skill? If Gaborik is healthy, and on the same line as Kopitar and a legit top 6 winger like Oshie or Radulov or someone we acquire in a trade, then he will get back to form. He is two seasons removed for a close to 30 goal season. If Gaborik doesn't work out, Brodzinski and Kempe have the skill level to slot into the top line wing.

Great vague post about "lacking in depth". Our blueline is as deep as its been since the 2014 cup run with the addition of Forbort, LaDue, and possibly Gravel. Defensively, with this blueline and freakin Budaj/Zatkoff we ranked 6th in goals against. With a healthy Quick, you can bank on us being in the top 3 in defense. Also, our third line is very strong with Brown, Lewis, and one of Kempe or Brodzinksi. Blake can also make a depth signing in the offseason to shore up our third line.

 

[KINGS17]

How are we not a player or two away from being contenders? As things stand now, our second line of Pearson-Carter-Toffoli is completely set and is very competitive with the best teams in the NHL.

Our first line is lacking one top 6 winger for Kopitar. Someone like Oshie or Radulov will make our first line competitive and also help Kopitar rebound back to his true form.

With respect to the third line, that largely depends on Blake either making a depth signing in the offseason or our youth becoming solid 10-15 goal scorers next season. For example, a third line of Kempe/Brodzinski-Brown-Lewis is very competitive in the league. Brown could definitely reach 15 goals with the way he has been playing. Lewis is good for about 10 goals as well. Kempe and Brodzinksi are unknowns, but I think one of them could become consistent 15+ goal scorers.

The fourth line just needs to play a strong checking game, and I am sure a combination of Shore, Dowd, Clifford, Nolan, Andreoff (depending on who is on the team) can get the job done.

With respect to defense, LaDue and Forbort did a great job filling the void we had in the top 4, and I think they will continue to get better, especially LaDue.

Lastly, we have an elite goalie in Quick.

This team will be fine assuming we don't have catastrophic injuries like last season. This whole doom and gloom on the board is way to extreme.

The Kings don't have the cap space to sign Oshie/Radulov, and Pearson and Toffoli.

I wouldn't be supremely confident about Kopitar returning to form.

There is a serious leadership void on this team as well.

 

[AlphaBravo]

The Kings don't have the cap space to sign Oshie/Radulov, and Pearson and Toffoli.

I wouldn't be supremely confident about Kopitar returning to form.

There is a serious leadership void on this team as well.

We do have cap space. I have posted on numerous occasions in the "Roster" thread, using numbers from CapFriendly, about how we will have cap space for a major UFA signing. We can also get a top 6 winger by trading one of Martinez or Muzzin. Hoven has also posted cap calculations that will give us cap space for a major signing. Believe it or not, we are actually fine cap wise.

Importantly, in two years Gaborik's contract will only have only two years left, which IMO will make it tradeable.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Gaborik had surgery and won't be ready by training camp. He won't be having close to a 30 goal season. His wheels are broken down and he avoids going to the hard areas, like he was doing in the 2014 Cup run.

This current blueline is as deep as Doughty, Muzzin, Voynov, Mitchell, Martinez, Regehr, Greene, Schultz?

I like Forbort, LaDue and Gravel, but me thinks you are exaggerating the blueline depth a wee bit.

If Quick gets hurt again (knock on wood that doesn't happen), who's going to step in? Jack Campbell and Jeff Zatkoff?

I hope Kempe and Brodzinski stick and have success, but I'm not going to place big expectations on their production. It's not easy to manufacture goals at this level.

 

[KINGS17]

What "miraculous recovery" are you talking about? Injury or skill? If Gaborik is healthy, and on the same line as Kopitar and a legit top 6 winger like Oshie or Radulov or someone we acquire in a trade, then he will get back to form. He is two seasons removed for a close to 30 goal season. If Gaborik doesn't work out, Brodzinski and Kempe have the skill level to slot into the top line wing.

Great vague post about "lacking in depth". Our blueline is as deep as its been since the 2014 cup run with the addition of Forbort, LaDue, and possibly Gravel. Defensively, with this blueline and freakin Budaj/Zatkoff we ranked 6th in goals against. With a healthy Quick, you can bank on us being in the top 3 in defense. Also, our third line is very strong with Brown, Lewis, and one of Kempe or Brodzinksi. Blake can also make a depth signing in the offseason to shore up our third line.

Gaborik is 35 years old and just had another surgery for a chronic problem with his left knee. Gaborik will miss the start of training camp.

How long before we will hear Luc say, "Marion will be back by Christmas!" I know; it's an oldie, but a goodie.

 

[KINGS17]

We do have cap space. I have posted on numerous occasions in the "Roster" thread, using numbers from CapFriendly, about how we will have cap space for a major UFA signing. We can also get a top 6 winger by trading one of Martinez or Muzzin. Hoven has also posted cap calculations that will give us cap space for a major signing. Believe it or not, we are actually fine cap wise.

Importantly, in two years Gaborik's contract will only have only two years left, which IMO will make it tradeable.

I will wait with bated breath until July 1, knowing Blake will be signing Oshie to a contract that 2nd to Kopitar's will be the biggest albatross the Kings have in terms of contracts.

Which top six winger are we getting for Muzzin or Martinez?

 

[AlphaBravo]

Gaborik had surgery and won't be ready by training camp. He won't be having close to a 30 goal season. His wheels are broken down and he avoids going to the hard areas, like he was doing in the 2014 Cup run.

This current blueline is as deep as Doughty, Muzzin, Voynov, Mitchell, Martinez, Regehr, Greene, Schultz?

I like Forbort, LaDue and Gravel, but me thinks you are exaggerating the blueline depth a wee bit.

If Quick gets hurt again (knock on wood that doesn't happen), who's going to step in? Jack Campbell and Jeff Zatkoff?

I hope Kempe and Brodzinski stick and have success, but I'm not going to place big expectations on their production. It's not easy to manufacture goals at this level.

Read my post again. I said "since" the 2014 run. The defense we had in 2012-2014 is the best we had in the last decade. But is our defense still strong and deep in today's NHL? Absolutely. Otherwise we would not finish top 6 in goals against with scrubs in net.

Also, I am not claiming that we will be a contender if Quick is injured for the entire season again. The same can be true about the top star on any other team.

 

[AlphaBravo]

I will wait with bated breath until July 1, knowing Blake will be signing Oshie to a contract that 2nd to Kopitar's will be the biggest albatross the Kings have in terms of contracts.

Which top six winger are we getting for Muzzin or Martinez?

It remains to be seen what top 6 winger we can get for Muzzin or Martinez. It all depends on which team desperately needs a top 4 defenseman after the expansion draft is over. Also, other than Shattenkirk, there are no solid defenseman available for UFA signing. A team in need to shore up its defense would need to make a trade for one.

I disagree that signing Oshie is a bad move. But that has been hashed out before in another thread and there is no need to relitigate that.

 

[KINGS17]

We do have cap space. I have posted on numerous occasions in the "Roster" thread, using numbers from CapFriendly, about how we will have cap space for a major UFA signing. We can also get a top 6 winger by trading one of Martinez or Muzzin. Hoven has also posted cap calculations that will give us cap space for a major signing. Believe it or not, we are actually fine cap wise.

Importantly, in two years Gaborik's contract will only have only two years left, which IMO will make it tradeable.

If the Kings took a player like Gaborik in a trade, what else would you be expecting to be coming along with him to make taking on his contract palatable?

Do the Kings want to give up an asset with the kind of value to get rid of Gaborik?

 

[AlphaBravo]

If the Kings took a player like Gaborik in a trade, what else would you be expecting to be coming along with him to make taking on his contract palatable?

Do the Kings want to give up an asset with the kind of value to get rid of Gaborik?

Depends on how much cap space is needed in two years to resign Doughty. Doughty will need to be resigned at all costs. He is the only player on this team that we can comfortably say is the best or second best defenseman in the entire league. Losing Doughty and his high 20 minute ice time every game will set the team back. If it costs us a 1st rounder to ship out Gaborik in two years and open up cap space for Doughty, then you make that deal. Gaborik can also be bought out in two years with a more palatable cap repercussion.

 

[BallPointHammer]

At least the Kings have a good quantity and quality of draft choices this year. No need to be fancy with all the draft day trades and jumping around that Dean Lombardi was (in)famous for. Draft, develop, THEN consider trades, improve and contend. Why not?

 

[BigKing]

Read my post again. I said "since" the 2014 run. The defense we had in 2012-2014 is the best we had in the last decade. But is our defense still strong and deep in today's NHL? Absolutely. Otherwise we would not finish top 6 in goals against with scrubs in net.

Also, I am not claiming that we will be a contender if Quick is injured for the entire season again. The same can be true about the top star on any other team.

I'm interested to see how the D fares under a new "system", even though Stevens is still running the show.

That Top 6 finish is due to Sutter's system. Take no chances and puck possession. Last year's defense is spoken of pretty highly around here but, IMO, it is due to rose-colored glasses on Forbort/Gravel/LaDue as a lot of their mistakes are ignored or dismissed because they are "our guys" while someone like Schenn is going to get raked over the coals for every single mistake he made.

I mean, they were 3rd in GAA in 2015 but the 2016 D is the best since the Cup run?

I don't buy it. It can't be with the seasons that Muzzin and Martinez put up. The Top 6 GAA is really the only thing anyone could hang their hat on last season so this narrative started to take shape about "best blue line etc."

Potential is there but it is still early to say Gravel and LaDue will be positive fixtures or that Forbort has another level etc.

 

[BallPointHammer]

There are a lot of goalies to choose from for backup role. LTIR Gaborik and Greene until their contracts expire or they retire. Do not trade assets to get rid of these guys or Brown, who is at least contributing something on the ice. Keep Muzzin and trade Martinez and/or McNabb, Lewis depending on the expansion draft. Pearson has and Toffoli will have reasonable contracts. Let's see what a revamped lineup with an updated playing style can do before resorting to making a UFA "big splash" (no!) or a blockbuster trade trying to PRY a proven scorer away from another team (no!).

 

[KINGS17]

There are a lot of goalies to choose from for backup role. LTIR Gaborik and Greene until their contracts expire or they retire. Do not trade assets to get rid of these guys or Brown, who is at least contributing something on the ice. Keep Muzzin and trade Martinez and/or McNabb, Lewis depending on the expansion draft. Pearson has and Toffoli will have reasonable contracts. Let's see what a revamped lineup with an updated playing style can do before resorting to making a UFA "big splash" (no!) or a blockbuster trade trying to PRY a proven scorer away from another team (no!).

Only problem with this is the player has to actually be injured and unable to return to the lineup.