2017 Draft Discussion - Sabres Pick 8th

[NotABadPeriod]

None of which bring immediate help to the massively baron landscape of the current defensive corp. If we land in 6 to 10 range I fully expect Murray to move the pick for immediate help.

Agreed, but we still need long-term help on the blue line too. We've got Guhle, Borgen, Fitzgerald, Nelson. Those are the only prospects I believe have a real shot at being NHL regulars: there are other long shots sure, but right now those 4 are all we have (assuming they pan out, which isn't guaranteed of course). We need more, and guys with high ceilings especially.

Trading the pick might help now, but if this team wants to be a perennial contender in the future, they need to keep that pick. Our D can't be fixed overnight.

 

[Yatzhee]

And how has the immediate help done with defense. Gorges, Bogosian, Franson. All have been barely average to inadequate. Drafting Foote or Liljegren and developing defensemen is the way to go about it.

No actually, waiting 2 to 4 years for players to be ready is not the way to go about it, at least, not yet. We can stockpile d men with other picks and following draft years.
If a deal can be made to swing a top d man with that pick, you better the current roster and do it. If we end up 6 to 10 I fully expect Murray to be in that mind set, for him not to would be foolish.

 

[Yatzhee]

Trading the pick might help now, but if this team wants to be a perennial contender in the future, they need to keep that pick. Our D can't be fixed overnight.

And there will be other picks and follow up drafts to address that.

 

[Der Jaeger]

None of which bring immediate help to the massively baron landscape of the current defensive corp. If we land in 6 to 10 range I fully expect Murray to move the pick for immediate help.

I don't. I expect GMTM to make the pick, and use Kane/Kulikov/later picks/free agency to get immediate help.

 

[ende]

If Colorado finishes 3 or later they don't pass on him for better or worse.

I think Colorado takes a center.

 

[wunderpanda]

Unbiased opinions of Henri Jokiharju? I get Winterhawks on tv, like him better than Foote now.

 

[1972]

I've seen Robert Thomas twice in the past 3 days, and he's the next London Knights star. Great set of hands on him. But it's pretty easy to see this isn't a strong draft from a CHL perspective.

 

[Djp]

Who are the top 5 Dman prospects and what is their approx draft rankings ?

 

[Snippit]

I've seen Robert Thomas twice in the past 3 days, and he's the next London Knights star. Great set of hands on him. But it's pretty easy to see this isn't a strong draft from a CHL perspective.

I watch every Knights game, and I think he's more offensively gifted than Pu and Jones. Defensively he's pretty reliable too.

He needs to add size, but he reminds me quite a bit of Robby Fabbri.

I'd absolutely love to get him with one of our 2nds this year.

 

[threeVo]

Who are the top 5 Dman prospects and what is their approx draft rankings ?

NA RANK
9 VALIMAKI, JUUSO Defenseman TRI-CITY WHL
10 MAKAR, CALE Defenseman BROOKS AJHL
11 HAGUE, NICOLAS Defenseman MISSISSAUGA OHL
12 FOOTE, CALLAN Defenseman KELOWNA WHL
22 JOKIHARJU, HENRI Defenseman PORTLAND WHL

EURO RANK
6 HEISKANEN, MIRO Defenseman HIFK FINLAND
7 LILJEGREN, TIMOTHY Defenseman ROGLE SWEDEN
8 VAAKANAINEN, URHO Defenseman JYP FINLAND

 

[1972]

Not a good year to finish with a top pick.

 

[MackAttack26]

Not liking the idea of taking any of the "top" defenseman if we finish with a top-10 pick this year outside of Liljegren.

I like the depth in the sense that I think there are plenty good 2nd/3rd round pick types available in this draft. But I think the top-3, top-10 and really, the whole top-30 are underwhelming with how it has looked for recent years at those respective spots.

 

[1972]

Not liking the idea of taking any of the "top" defenseman if we finish with a top-10 pick this year outside of Liljegren.

I like the depth in the sense that I think there are plenty good 2nd/3rd round pick types available in this draft. But I think the top-3, top-10 and really, the whole top-30 are underwhelming with how it has looked for recent years at those respective spots.

It's gonna be the 2012 draft all over again. Basically every decent Dman is gonna go in the top 15 and it's gonna be very hard to predict the order.

 

[threeVo]

I think outside of Patrick and Nico you could end up with the 3rd best player picking 3rd to 30th. There doesnt seem to be much to desire outside of them. The top 10 players arent filled with cant miss players so outside of getting extremely lucky in the lottery I would be fine moving this pick to address the D with a NHL player instead of a lottery ticket in the draft.

 

[Lumpjaw]

This will be the year we win the lottery and get another center?

 

[jc17]

This will be the year we win the lottery and get another center?

How good is nolan patrick?

At that point I'd trade that pick for blueline help.

 

[is the answer jesus]

This will be the year we win the lottery and get another center?

I'd draft Hischier.

 

[sabregoat]

Not a good year to finish with a top pick.

Which makes it more acceptable to use it alone or in a package for a established young defenseman.

 

[Onslow]

How good is nolan patrick?

At that point I'd trade that pick for blueline help.

He apparently draws comparisons to Eric Staal.

Funnily enough the Canes need a young top 6 center and have a plethora of good young dmen...

Edit: not that the Sabres would get any lotto luck anyway

 

[Zip15]

I think outside of Patrick and Nico you could end up with the 3rd best player picking 3rd to 30th. There doesnt seem to be much to desire outside of them. The top 10 players arent filled with cant miss players so outside of getting extremely lucky in the lottery I would be fine moving this pick to address the D with a NHL player instead of a lottery ticket in the draft.

TSN's midseason top-80 (and honorable mentions!) is out, and McKenzie conveyed similar sentiments:

Outside of the top two prospects, this year's draft is highly unpredictable, even in the Top 10.

Getting consensus on the Top 5, or for that matter the Top 10, isn't usually that difficult, but it was a tremendous challenge this year.

Swedish defenceman Timothy Liljegren is No. 3 on TSN's mid-season list – despite the fact he missed much of the first half of the season with mononucleosis – but the range of opinion on the mobile, puck-moving blueliner is really quite extraordinary. Liljegren was as high as No. 3 on four scouts' rankings but was as low as the second round on another.

While not every Top 5 or Top 10 prospect had as a wide range of opinion as Liljegren, there were some pretty significant variances.

Windsor Spitfire forward Gabe Vilardi is No. 4 on TSN's list and his rankings ranged from as high as No. 3 and as low as No. 14. Vilardi isn't the swiftest skater but he gets there and his hockey sense and ability to make plays are both above average.

Minnesota high schooler Casey Mittelstadt of Eden Prairie – the highest-ranked American started the season with Green Bay of the USHL and will return there once the high-school season is over – is No. 5. The offensive centre's range on balloting was No. 4 at the high end and No. 13 at the low end.

We don't keep track of such things, but it's quite likely this is the first time this has ever happened: Every prospect ranked from No. 3 to No. 13 on the TSN Mid-Season Draft Rankings list got one or more votes in the top five and one or more votes at No. 12 or lower.

....

11. Skilled Swedish forward Elias Pettersson, who has performed well both in Sweden's top league and at the world juniors, had a range of four on the high end and 29 on the low end. Pettersson hasn't filled out yet but is versatile and can play all three forward positions.

12. Cale Makar of the Alberta Junior League's Brooks Bandits has become something of a sensation since his flashy performance at the World Junior A Challenge in December. The dynamic offensive defenceman is a threat to Liljegren as the top defenceman in the draft and could yet be a Top 10 consideration. His range was from four to 29.

13. Finnish blueliner Miro Heiskanen of IFK is also in the mix for top defenceman in this draft and the last of the prospects who got some consideration for being in the top five of the entire draft. Four scouts had him in their Top 10, including one vote as high as third overall. He's a solid skating and puck-moving blueliner.

http://www.tsn.ca/patrick-has-decided-edge-in-tsn-hockey-mid-season-draft-ranking-1.661533

And where would Patrick have been picked if he was five days older and was a 2016-eligible?

The consensus amongst scouts seems to be that were Patrick eligible last year, he would have been ranked/chosen in the No. 5 to 8 region, quite likely behind Matthews, Laine, Pierre-Luc Dubois and Jesse Puljujarvi.

Hey Bob, at least tell me this is a good draft to rebuild our feeble defense pipeline...

It's not a particularly strong draft for defencemen.

Well, alright.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Hey Bob, at least tell me this is a good draft to rebuild our feeble defense pipeline...

My thoughts on this statement are below, noting that GMTM won't enter the draft looking to re-build the defensive pipeline. He'll go BPA the whole way, as he normally does.

My perspective is a little different. I think 2017 is a good year to go in on defense.

There's no sure-fire top 10 picks or consensus impact players. No Hanifin. No Nurse. No Ristolainen. Not even a Juolevi. But, I think GMTM can take flyers on defenders in the second round and wait on development.

I don't think Liljegren falls to Buffalo. But Makar and Heiskanen could be there, and both have skillsets that Buffalo needs. If GMTM is looking for a more physical presence with upside but limitations, Valimaki or Foote could be solid picks.

I think GMTM could really make some strides in the second and third rounds, though. Many players with upside but limitations that take them out of the first round. Brannstrom is dynamic but small. I like Luke Martin; solid, steady, mobile. Westerlund and Salo aren't listed, either.

Lots of potential in those players if they can grow beyond their limitations.

 

[Djp]

I think the reason for them opening up on March 1st is to....

1. sign unsigned CHL players

2. sign unsigened college players

3. making expansion draft deals with teams that allow them to acquire picks and prospect rights( like CHL players drafted in 2015 who are not yet signed but the signing window opens for them to sign 17/18 ELC contracts before 1June when their rights expire)

 

[Ethan Edwards]

My perspective is a little different. I think 2017 is a good year to go in on defense.

There's no sure-fire top 10 picks or consensus impact players. No Hanifin. No Nurse. No Ristolainen. Not even a Juolevi. But, I think GMTM can take flyers on defenders in the second round and wait on development.

I don't think Liljegren falls to Buffalo. But Makar and Heiskanen could be there, and both have skillsets that Buffalo needs. If GMTM is looking for a more physical presence with upside but limitations, Valimaki or Foote could be solid picks.

I think GMTM could really make some strides in the second and third rounds, though. Many players with upside but limitations that take them out of the first round. Brannstrom is dynamic but small. I like Luke Martin; solid, steady, mobile. Westerlund and Salo aren't listed, either.

Lots of potential in those players if they can grow beyond their limitations.

Exactly my thoughts when I read the McKenzie comments. You're both right that there are no true D standouts in this coming class. Relative standouts, sure, but IMO no one screams sure fire top pair D like the players you named. But like the forwards, while the elite talent at the top may not be there, there is arguable sub-elite depth, if that phrase makes any sense. I think that if you end up keeping the picks, just from a quick glance there are plenty of Dmen out there that you can use to stock the cupboard, even into the 3rd round. And you can go in a variety of directions, with some intriguing potential there as you described. Other people may look at it with some disappointment, and I see their point, but I also see a bit of potential if Murray plays it right, which he's done in the past.

 

[truthbluth]

My thoughts on this statement are below, noting that GMTM won't enter the draft looking to re-build the defensive pipeline. He'll go BPA the whole way, as he normally does.

My perspective is a little different. I think 2017 is a good year to go in on defense.

There's no sure-fire top 10 picks or consensus impact players. No Hanifin. No Nurse. No Ristolainen. Not even a Juolevi. But, I think GMTM can take flyers on defenders in the second round and wait on development.

I don't think Liljegren falls to Buffalo. But Makar and Heiskanen could be there, and both have skillsets that Buffalo needs. If GMTM is looking for a more physical presence with upside but limitations, Valimaki or Foote could be solid picks.

I think GMTM could really make some strides in the second and third rounds, though. Many players with upside but limitations that take them out of the first round. Brannstrom is dynamic but small. I like Luke Martin; solid, steady, mobile. Westerlund and Salo aren't listed, either.

Lots of potential in those players if they can grow beyond their limitations.

I've got to be honest, I don't like Valimaki for that kind of player. I much prefer Hague who also has intriguing offensive skills for a big man. But if you want a puck mover, Valimaki is probably the best passer in the draft (among D, and I have seen very little of Makar, who is interesting). But if you want to add a rugged D that can contribute offense, Hague is the guy for me.

I think there are a bunch of intriguing D men in this draft. And the forwards are all pretty ordinary to me, outside of the top guys. So I really hope GMTM does go D if we end up drafting in the 7-11 range. I think there is a drop off around 5 or 6, depending what you think of Casey Mittelstadt (I don't like him). Drafting in that range, you've got to go BPA. After the top 2 tiers are gone, you've got to address the defense.

 

[MackAttack26]

Hague is the defenseman version of Kane in the sense that if he touches the puck in the offensive zone, he is going to shoot 95% of the time, no matter what the angle. Thats why he is scoring goals well in Junior for a guy his age, he is a volume shooter. That and his defensive play are issues for me that keep him out of the top-half of the first. Interesting prospect for sure though.

At this point Im still hoping for Valimaki, Makar or if we are lucky, Liljegren.