Speculation: 2017-18 Roster Discussion - Part 2

[Rschmitz]

All that said, looking at next summer... could just be lining ourselves up to get a little help now, lets some kids run, and then chase a bigger fish next summer.

https://capfriendly.com/browse/free-agents/2019/caphit/all/defense

This list always looks attractive a year out unfortunately

 

[Todd1a]

What the heck Montreal got David schlemko from Vegas for a 5th rounder that's it ??

 

[Leonardo87]

Why are people so adamant about Shattenkirk. He wants to go to NY. He apparently turned down a deal with Tampa. Odds are not good and will only cost more money to increase those odds by dangling the carrot. Can get a top 4 D for around 4 million, and possibly use the rest to get another Top 6 forward if needed. Will have likely 10 million to work with once everyone has been re-signed.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

What the heck Montreal got David schlemko from Vegas for a 5th rounder that's it ??

Hes just a third pairing D that handles shot suppression a bit better.

 

[Todd1a]

Why are people so adamant about Shattenkirk. He wants to go to NY. He apparently turned down a deal with Tampa. Odds are not good and will only cost more money to increase those odds by dangling the carrot. Can get a top 4 D for around 4 million, and possibly use the rest to get another Top 6 forward if needed. Will have likely 10 million to work with once everyone has been re-signed.

I hope we don't get shattenkirk stay away from tampa

 

[HoseEmDown]

How do we not have trade chips? Sure we don't have any blue chippers besides Sergachev but what team has multiple blue chip prospects? We have a lot of 2/3rd line or 2/3rd pair talent. A package of the 14th + Mitchell Stephens + Erik Cernak could easily land us Brodin/Dumba type player, problem is Minnesota is in a win now mode so it does them no good. We could get a Muzzin but he's too old for me. Maybe we can get a Connor Murphy who's a better Dotchin, we have the assets to get a 3 or 4 D and possibly a 2D, I just don't think we need to gut the farm for that when Sergachev is a year out and projects to be a more offensive Hanifin or Brodin.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

How do we not have trade chips? Sure we don't have any blue chippers besides Sergachev but what team has multiple blue chip prospects? We have a lot of 2/3rd line or 2/3rd pair talent. A package of the 14th + Mitchell Stephens + Erik Cernak could easily land us Brodin/Dumba type player, problem is Minnesota is in a win now mode so it does them no good. We could get a Muzzin but he's too old for me. Maybe we can get a Connor Murphy who's a better Dotchin, we have the assets to get a 3 or 4 D and possibly a 2D, I just don't think we need to gut the farm for that when Sergachev is a year out and projects to be a more offensive Hanifin or Brodin.

Murphy !> Dotchin

 

[These Are The Days]

Why are people so adamant about Shattenkirk. He wants to go to NY. He apparently turned down a deal with Tampa. Odds are not good and will only cost more money to increase those odds by dangling the carrot. Can get a top 4 D for around 4 million, and possibly use the rest to get another Top 6 forward if needed. Will have likely 10 million to work with once everyone has been re-signed.

I'm just adamant about not spending that much money. Apparently Shattenkirk didn't like the term. I guess he probably wanted 8 years or whatever the rule is for a sign and trade. No thank you for 8 years of that guy. Let the NYR make that deal.

I guarantee you he asks for NMC or NTC too

 

[Flat Ronnie]

How do we not have trade chips? Sure we don't have any blue chippers besides Sergachev but what team has multiple blue chip prospects? We have a lot of 2/3rd line or 2/3rd pair talent. A package of the 14th + Mitchell Stephens + Erik Cernak could easily land us Brodin/Dumba type player, problem is Minnesota is in a win now mode so it does them no good. We could get a Muzzin but he's too old for me. Maybe we can get a Connor Murphy who's a better Dotchin, we have the assets to get a 3 or 4 D and possibly a 2D, I just don't think we need to gut the farm for that when Sergachev is a year out and projects to be a more offensive Hanifin or Brodin.

Are we not in win now mode either? You just presented an argument for Dumba them argued against it in the next sentence.

Back to the original point: where are we getting our legit top 4 D with 1st+Stephens+Cernak?

A top 4 D that helps us WIN NOW? Can you present some type of legitimate pathway to trading for a Faulk/Trouba type guy who can help us win now?

 

[FDfranklin]

So the general consensus is that we have a ton of cap space with nothing to use it on, yet we overpaid getting rid of that cap space.

I hope Yzerman has an ace up his sleeve.

Getting rid of Garrison with one year left on his contract just makes less and less sense.

 

[The Macho King]

I do think there's value in cap space, even if we're not using it. Players become available during the season as well. We can be a "cap team" without busting at the cap seems every season.

If we end up with ~3m in cap but address our major needs, I don't think we need to be in a rush to use it.

 

[Leonardo87]

I'm just adamant about not spending that much money. Apparently Shattenkirk didn't like the term. I guess he probably wanted 8 years or whatever the rule is for a sign and trade. No thank you for 8 years of that guy. Let the NYR make that deal.

I guarantee you he asks for NMC or NTC too

Signing another big contract like this, will put Tampa back in cap issues. I like Tampa's line-up, and don't think they need to go after the biggest fish in the sea. Medium fish sure, but why handcuff this team again? Also, most a team can offer is 7 years. Only Caps can offer 8 years.

 

[Todd1a]

So the general consensus is that we have a ton of cap space with nothing to use it on, yet we overpaid getting rid of that cap space.

I hope Yzerman has an ace up his sleeve.

Getting rid of Garrison with one year left on his contract just makes less and less sense.

pretty much sums it up

 

[Flat Ronnie]

At this point, where we stand today, dumping Drouin is a major blow to our win now hopes. Serge could surprise us and be of value this year, sure. But losing Drouin is a huge loss of talent and production in our front end (have to image his production with Stammer in the lineup all year).

We are most likely not going to replace that production, but rather there was hopes of making up for it with improved D performance.

This is the concern right now. I hope we aren't relying on a paid and extended TyJo and Palat to drastically improve their play now that they're getting rich - that doesn't seem smart. Killorn.....

 

[HoseEmDown]

Are we not in win now mode either? You just presented an argument for Dumba them argued against it in the next sentence.

Back to the original point: where are we getting our legit top 4 D with 1st+Stephens+Cernak?

A top 4 D that helps us WIN NOW? Can you present some type of legitimate pathway to trading for a Faulk/Trouba type guy who can help us win now?

We aren't in a win now mode nor are we in a rebuilding mode, we are in a retooling mode. We shouldn't be trading good futures for someone like Muzzin who's almost 30. I presented an argument for Dumba but against Hanifin or Brodin. Dumba is a RD with offense which is what we need, Hanifin and Brodin are lefties who don't have a high offensive ceiling, I'd wait for Sergachev before move a package for either, Dumba I would.

Connor Murphy is a legit top 4, we could get him for that package or possibly less. But if he's the target I'd just use Dotchin + because they're similar players and we don't need both. We might get Tanev for that package but again he's too similar to Dotchin, so a Dotchin + I would consider. Barrie is out there and if Colorado goes rebuild then they might have interest.

I can't see us trading for a Faulk or Trouba because I don't think either is available, Trouba might be next off-season if he can't be signed long-term. So for next year we should see what we have in the prospects who will be in Syracuse, see if Koekkoek or Dotchin are top 4 guys, Point is a top 6 center and Erne or Gourde are better than Killorn or Callahan. If the team is top 3 in the Atlantic around the deadline make a move for a piece and go for a run but don't sell the farm just yet till we see what we have in house.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

We aren't in a win now mode nor are we in a rebuilding mode, we are in a retooling mode.

I 100% disagree with this. How can you say we are not in win now mode?

2015 Finals, 2016 ECF game 7, last year went into the season cup favorites, this year 12/1 tied for second cup favorites. Stammer, Hedman, Kucherov, TyJo, Palat, Stralman, Vasi all still here.

If that's not win now, nothing is.

Looking past next year as a "retool" year is a huge mistake. Look how bad this past year hurt us - didn't make moves to improve our roster, regressed, Stammer went down and we were DONE.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

The thing is you can't be in win-now mode when your 3rd best winger is Alex Killorn.

Although our defense is hella underrated.

 

[HoseEmDown]

I 100% disagree with this. How can you say we are not in win now mode?

2015 Finals, 2016 ECF game 7, last year went into the season cup favorites, this year 12/1 tied for second cup favorites. Stammer, Hedman, Kucherov, TyJo, Palat, Stralman, Vasi all still here.

If that's not win now, nothing is.

We aren't Chicago, LA or the Rangers who have an old roster with a weak prospect pool. Those teams are in a win now mode. We have a roster with a nice blend of ages plus a top 15, maybe 10 with Sergachev, pool.

We don't have to make moves to win now, while we don't have to sell anything to restock. We can be patient with the roster since it's proven they can go far and if they are close add pieces as needed. We also can wait a year when we should add anothed good defender, Sergachev, more depth forwards, Cirelli, Stephens and Jospeph, while hopefully having Koekkoek or Dotchin prove they're legit top 4 defenders.

 

[LightningStrikes]

How is adding Shattenkirk not a huge upgrade over Garrison who was expected to anchor the 2nd PP? Pair him with Stralman and you've got yourself a well balanced and potent 2nd pairing for ES.

How is Marleau not a tremendous fit for us? At 37 he is nowhere near slowing down. 25 and 27 goals in his past two seasons. Would bring leadership to this young team, guide some of the youngsters and give us scoring depth. Plus he's one of the few available that are able to keep up with our speed.

Signing these two alone is such a big improvement to our roster compared to last season. We (hopefully) will have more than a handful of games of Stamkos on the roster.
In addition we have Callahan coming back, hope dies last but he should be a serviceable depth player who will chip in the occasional goal and give us a bruiser in front of the net and at the very least will improve our penalty kill.
We have some kids potentially making the jump (Sergachev, Erne, Howden, Raddysh, Peca, Hajek...), we have kids ready to take the next step (Dotchin, Koekkoek, Namestnikov, Gourde...).

We had extremely bad luck with injuries. Especially with several roster players missing games at the same time.

Marleau - Stamkos - Kucherov
Palat - Johnson - Point
Killorn - Namestnikov - Callahan
Gourde - Dumont - Brown

Hedman - Dotchin
Stralman - Shattenkirk
Sustr - Coburn


How is that not an improvement? And we have the cap space to make it happen.

I think getting rid of Garrison who had only one year left is sending a strong message that we'll not be quiet when free agent frenzy starts. We're in win-now mode. Stamkos, Hedman and Kucherov are in their prime. What do you want to save money for? Why not invest now.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Shatty doesn't want to be here

Also I don't think we can afford him AND marleau

EDIT: plus you forgot Adam Erne, just move gourde to RW and put erne on 4LW

EDIT2: Why Sustr? I'd much rather use Koekkoek or Sergachev

 

[Cmac66]

How is adding Shattenkirk not a huge upgrade over Garrison who was expected to anchor the 2nd PP? Pair him with Stralman and you've got yourself a well balanced and potent 2nd pairing for ES.

How is Marleau not a tremendous fit for us? At 37 he has nowhere near slowing down. 25 and 27 goals in his past two seasons. Would bring leadership to this young team, guide some of the youngsters and give us scoring depth. Plus he's one of the few available that are able to keep up with our speed.

Signing these two alone is such a big improvement to our roster compared to last season. We (hopefully) will have more than a handful of games of Stamkos on the roster.
In addition we have Callahan coming back, hope dies last but he should be a serviceable depth player who will chip in the occasional goal and give us a bruiser in front of the net and at the very least will improve our penalty kill.
We have some kids potentially making the jump (Sergachev, Erne, Howden, Raddysh, Peca, Hajek...), we have kids ready to take the next step (Dotchin, Koekkoek, , Namestnikov, Gourde...).

We had extremely bad luck with injuries. Especially with several roster players missing games at the same time.

Marleau - Stamkos - Kucherov
Palat - Johnson - Point
Killorn - Namestnikov - Callahan
Gourde - Dumont - Brown

Hedman - Dotchin
Stralman - Shattenkirk
Sustr - Coburn


How is that not an improvement? And we have the cap space to make it happen.

I think getting rid of Garrison who had only one year left is sending a strong message that we'll not be quite when free agent frenzy starts. We're in win-now mode. Stamkos, Hedman and Kucherov are in their prime. What do you want to save money for? Why not invest now.

that 4th line is horrible don't think I could handle another year with Brown in the line up again.

 

[LightningStrikes]

that 4th line is horrible don't think I could handle another year with Brown in the line up again.

Witkowski at F then.

 

[Cmac66]

Witkowski at F then.

ouch even that has given me nightmares

 

[Stammertime91]

How is adding Shattenkirk not a huge upgrade over Garrison who was expected to anchor the 2nd PP? Pair him with Stralman and you've got yourself a well balanced and potent 2nd pairing for ES.

How is Marleau not a tremendous fit for us? At 37 he is nowhere near slowing down. 25 and 27 goals in his past two seasons. Would bring leadership to this young team, guide some of the youngsters and give us scoring depth. Plus he's one of the few available that are able to keep up with our speed.

Signing these two alone is such a big improvement to our roster compared to last season. We (hopefully) will have more than a handful of games of Stamkos on the roster.
In addition we have Callahan coming back, hope dies last but he should be a serviceable depth player who will chip in the occasional goal and give us a bruiser in front of the net and at the very least will improve our penalty kill.
We have some kids potentially making the jump (Sergachev, Erne, Howden, Raddysh, Peca, Hajek...), we have kids ready to take the next step (Dotchin, Koekkoek, Namestnikov, Gourde...).

We had extremely bad luck with injuries. Especially with several roster players missing games at the same time.

Marleau - Stamkos - Kucherov
Palat - Johnson - Point
Killorn - Namestnikov - Callahan
Gourde - Dumont - Brown

Hedman - Dotchin
Stralman - Shattenkirk
Sustr - Coburn


How is that not an improvement? And we have the cap space to make it happen.

I think getting rid of Garrison who had only one year left is sending a strong message that we'll not be quiet when free agent frenzy starts. We're in win-now mode. Stamkos, Hedman and Kucherov are in their prime. What do you want to save money for? Why not invest now.

Agree with the sentiment and about Marleau. Disagree about Shattenkirk and your defensive pairings. I feel like giving Shattenkirk the money he wants will come back to haunt us, and rather quickly. Marleau on the other hand I'd pay his current price, he would thrive in our system and in the east. Also, I don't want Stralman on the left. Other than that I agree. I have a feeling we are in on a big name. Possibly Marleau, but I'm hoping, hoping and hoping some more it's Kovalchuk.

 

[Rschmitz]

Why are people so adamant about Shattenkirk. He wants to go to NY. He apparently turned down a deal with Tampa. Odds are not good and will only cost more money to increase those odds by dangling the carrot. Can get a top 4 D for around 4 million, and possibly use the rest to get another Top 6 forward if needed. Will have likely 10 million to work with once everyone has been re-signed.

Less being adamant and more thinking that is the way Yzerman is leaning. I'm sure we would all run this team a lot differently than Yzerman haha