Speculation: 2017-18 Roster Discussion - Part 2

[LightningStrikes]

Why is everyone expecting some kinda big trades? We already traded our only strong trade chip.

What, is our 1st supposed to get us the top 4 D we need??!! Nope.

We really have no good chips to make the trades we need.

Because we have around $23M in cap space and solid prospect depth. Palat, Johnson, Gourde, Dotchin, (Sustr) need new contracts and we're like at least a defenseman short. Expect either trades or UFA signings.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

Because we have around $23M in cap space and solid prospect depth. Palat, Johnson, Gourde, Dotchin, (Sustr) need new contracts and we're like at least a defenseman short. Expect either trades or UFA signings.

And what are our COVETED assets that other teams just have to have that will return us a legit top 4 D?

It's not the cash, it's the lack of trade chips. We're running low on "talent" and we can't afford to give more away.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

Optimism, mostly. Also, we do have a lot of promising forward prospects.

Also, make the trades Stevie

Who are these promising forward prospects that are going to return us a legit puck moving top 4 D?

 

[VoluntaryDom]

I vote we trade Tyler Johnson and Ondrej Palat for Noah Hanifin.

(makes about as much sense as the Drouin trade)

 

[FinnLightning26]

I'm thinking Yzerman pushes to get Palat/Johnson done before July 1st to know how much money he has to play with. If we don't go after a single big target (Shattenkirk), I could see the following options.

Sign a D: Russell/Stone/Markov/Daley
Sign a winger: Marleau?

I've liked Stone's game in the past but didn't he have a major knee injury before last season? Didn't watch him last year so I don't know if it has affected his game. Otherwise he would fit our mold of big defensemen. He's also RHD. Wouldn't mind him on the third pair behind Dotchin and Strålman. Another guy I would take a look at is Nate Schmidt. He would fit pretty well on the third pair too.

 

[FinnLightning26]

I vote we trade Tyler Johnson and Ondrej Palat for Noah Hanifin.

(makes about as much sense as the Drouin trade)

And whose going to score next year besides Stammer and Kuch?

 

[Rschmitz]

Who are these promising forward prospects that are going to return us a legit puck moving top 4 D?

I agree with you are saying

 

[Flat Ronnie]

So it seems like Carolina might be looking at trading some D for some top 6 help. This is exactly our problem. They have EXACTLY what we need: Faulk/Hanifan.

However, we don't have the chips to get this done. There are way better options out there like Duchene or JVR. We can't afford to let any of out top 6 talent go now.


Also, time will definitely tell, but something like Drouin for Faulk looks a hell of a lot better for this teams cup window than Drouin for Serge. This last part is pure speculation on my part.

 

[Rschmitz]

23.3 million in cap space

Let's say 11 million towards Palat and Johnson. 2 million towards Sustr, 1.3 million buffer towards bonuses and various other things.

That's 10 million to play with. We can give Shatty 6 million and still have 4 million to sign a top 6 forward.

 

[Rschmitz]

So it seems like Carolina might be looking at trading some D for some top 6 help. This is exactly our problem. They have EXACTLY what we need: Faulk/Hanifan.

However, we don't have the chips to get this done. There are way better options out there like Duchene or JVR. We can't afford to let any of out top 6 talent up.

I don't think Hanifin is an option anymore with Sergachev. Faulk would have been a perfect pickup, but Carolina was unlikely to let him go for anything resembling a fair deal because of their lack of depth on the right side and lack of experience overall.

Assuming that isn't the case, we can still get Faulk for something off of our main roster like TJ or Palat with picks added in as needed.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

23.3 million in cap space

Let's say 11 million towards Palat and Johnson. 2 million towards Sustr, 1.3 million buffer towards bonuses and various other things.

That's 10 million to play with. We can give Shatty 6 million and still have 4 million to sign a top 6 forward.

This is our reality going forward:

1) We don't have the trade chips to score a legit puck moving top 4 D.

2) Only way we can come close to one is if we find a team that needs to dump cap and they value our 1st plus average prospect in return.

3) it seems likely that Shatty isn't thrilled to come here - esspecially on a discount. If we want him we will have to overpay big time.

4) Forward UFA class is weak. Only great option is Oshie but he is gonna get paid. Same with Radulov.

5) Marleau is nice but is not fixing any current problems we have by himself.

6) This is looking very, very tough for us to actually have an IMPROVED roster with MORE talent.

 

[Todd1a]

23.3 million in cap space

Let's say 11 million towards Palat and Johnson. 2 million towards Sustr, 1.3 million buffer towards bonuses and various other things.

That's 10 million to play with. We can give Shatty 6 million and still have 4 million to sign a top 6 forward.

Don't want shatty period in two years we got to do a massive extension with kucherov and we are about to pay Johnson and palat! we need to sign nothing over a two year term. this is going to be like 2013-2014 breaking in a lot of young d men into the nhl.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

I don't think Hanifin is an option anymore with Sergachev. Faulk would have been a perfect pickup, but Carolina was unlikely to let him go for anything resembling a fair deal because of their lack of depth on the right side and lack of experience overall.

Assuming that isn't the case, we can still get Faulk for something off of our main roster like TJ or Palat with picks added in as needed.

That is the problem: Drouin would have been perfect for them. Super talented top 6 winger who is young.

Also, at this point, we can't afford to let go of TyJo or Palat now that Drouin is gone.

 

[More 2004]

And what are our COVETED assets that other teams just have to have that will return us a legit top 4 D?

It's not the cash, it's the lack of trade chips. We're running low on "talent" and we can't afford to give more away.

#14 is still on the table as well as a guy like Koekkoek.

 

[The Macho King]

23.3 million in cap space

Let's say 11 million towards Palat and Johnson. 2 million towards Sustr, 1.3 million buffer towards bonuses and various other things.

That's 10 million to play with. We can give Shatty 6 million and still have 4 million to sign a top 6 forward.

We need 3 forwards at minimum right now (4 if you count burying Condra, and 5 if you count a 13th [although one of those is likely to be Erne]), so that's going to eat some of that cap space. I think we need 3 Dmen signed (two of them are likely to be Koekkoek and Dotchin - possibly Sustr) + 1 more for a 7th. So I count, before re-signing anyone, 8 roster spots to fill with 23 million.

Erne is like 700k. Dotchin and KK will likely be around 1.1 or so. Call the three of them 3. 20 million to fill 5 spots. 11 million to Johnson and Palat. 9 to fill 3 spots. Burying Condra gives us 10 to fill 4 again (two dmen and two forwards - we'd like one top six and top 4 ideally). Say Sustr at 1.4 again. 8.6 for 3 spots. 900k to Gourde gives us 7.7 for 2 spots.

We're likely going to have trouble getting both a top 6 forward and top 4 dman with 7.7 in cap space. Our best bet is a guy like Marleau taking a cup-hunting/bonus heavy deal. Paying Shatty 6 though kills the dream of getting a top 6 forward as well. HOWEVER - if instead of getting Shatty in FA we get a guy like Nate Schmidt or CDH or even a Scandella, our universe opens up quite a bit.

 

[These Are The Days]

I'm 99% sure he's gonna sell our souls to Shattenkirk. I don't want him. I don't like him, he's lousy in the playoffs and he's gonna cost a fortune.

NO. THANK. YOU

Now if he wants to go and sign someone like Radulov or maybe a wiley veteran like a Justin Williams or Patrick Marleau, or maybe we go with skill with someone like Oshie or Dadonov of SKA on top of a guy like a Trevor Daley or Karl Alzner (assuming DC cannot retain him) then yeah let's go for it. A guy like Daley or Alzner will cost maybe just a little more than Garrison? Yeah let's do it.

Point is: there is absolutely ZERO reason we should be throwing $7+ million at a defenseman.

 

[Rschmitz]

That is the problem: Drouin would have been perfect for them. Super talented top 6 winger who is young.

Also, at this point, we can't afford to let go of TyJo or Palat now that Drouin is gone.

We can afford to let TJ go. We would need to find a top 6 guy in free agency though which would be very risky, but that frees up the ~5.5 million it would have taken to sign TJ to do it.

The thing is, a deal can be done after July 1st. If Shatty is taking too long to circle back and sign, there is another option to pursue.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

$23M in cap space with not a lot of promising options.

We've waited a long time for cap space and finally got it.

I'm gonna quote Meat Loaf: "All revved up with no place to go."

 

[More 2004]

23.3 million in cap space

Let's say 11 million towards Palat and Johnson. 2 million towards Sustr, 1.3 million buffer towards bonuses and various other things.

That's 10 million to play with. We can give Shatty 6 million and still have 4 million to sign a top 6 forward.

Sustr? Nah, no thanks.. As for forwards, Oshie looked mighty good last season but will likely get too big of a pay increase for us to be able to have a shot at him.

 

[Rschmitz]

This is our reality going forward:

1) We don't have the trade chips to score a legit puck moving top 4 D.

2) Only way we can come close to one is if we find a team that needs to dump cap and they value our 1st plus average prospect in return.

3) it seems likely that Shatty isn't thrilled to come here - esspecially on a discount. If we want him we will have to overpay big time.

4) Forward UFA class is weak. Only great option is Oshie but he is gonna get paid. Same with Radulov.

5) Marleau is nice but is not fixing any current problems we have by himself.

6) This is looking very, very tough for us to actually have an IMPROVED roster with MORE talent.

Yeah, Yzerman is going to have to find a couple of Point's this season.

I'm 99% sure he's gonna sell our souls to Shattenkirk. I don't want him. I don't like him, he's lousy in the playoffs and he's gonna cost a fortune.

NO. THANK. YOU

Now if he wants to go and sign someone like Radulov or maybe a wiley veteran like a Justin Williams or Patrick Marleau, or maybe we go with skill with someone like Oshie or Dadonov of SKA on top of a guy like a Trevor Daley or Karl Alzner (assuming DC cannot retain him) then yeah let's go for it. A guy like Daley or Alzner will cost maybe just a little more than Garrison? Yeah let's do it.

Point is: there is absolutely ZERO reason we should be throwing $7+ million at a defenseman.

That's why I think he'll wait to see if Shatty comes back to sign the 7x6 deal. I think we are all unanimously in agreement that that's already an uncomfortable #

 

[RegularSznAllStars]

Everyone who wants shattenkirk is out of their mind. I would rather do nothing than sign him. This is literally another Callahan contract, why do we want that? You want to pay him 7m for two years? Sure go for it. But the six or seven years he is going to sign for is insane.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

This is our reality going forward:

1) We don't have the trade chips to score a legit puck moving top 4 D.

2) Only way we can come close to one is if we find a team that needs to dump cap and they value our 1st plus average prospect in return.

3) it seems likely that Shatty isn't thrilled to come here - esspecially on a discount. If we want him we will have to overpay big time.

4) Forward UFA class is weak. Only great option is Oshie but he is gonna get paid. Same with Radulov.

5) Marleau is nice but is not fixing any current problems we have by himself.

6) This is looking very, very tough for us to actually have an IMPROVED roster with MORE talent.

1 - Sure we do. Point, Erne, Peca, Stephens, Raddysh... GMs jerk themselves off over great OHL play.

2 - Disagree, but the price becomes higher with less proven players obviously.

3 - Agreed.

4 - Also agree.

5 - Marleau fixes a depth problem, but that is a somewhat expensive temporary fix.

6 - I wouldn't say its tough, there are some parts moving right now, we'll just see if it makes it to the finish line.

 

[HoseEmDown]

We need 3 forwards at minimum right now (4 if you count burying Condra, and 5 if you count a 13th [although one of those is likely to be Erne]), so that's going to eat some of that cap space. I think we need 3 Dmen signed (two of them are likely to be Koekkoek and Dotchin - possibly Sustr) + 1 more for a 7th. So I count, before re-signing anyone, 8 roster spots to fill with 23 million.

Erne is like 700k. Dotchin and KK will likely be around 1.1 or so. Call the three of them 3. 20 million to fill 5 spots. 11 million to Johnson and Palat. 9 to fill 3 spots. Burying Condra gives us 10 to fill 4 again (two dmen and two forwards - we'd like one top six and top 4 ideally). Say Sustr at 1.4 again. 8.6 for 3 spots. 900k to Gourde gives us 7.7 for 2 spots.

We're likely going to have trouble getting both a top 6 forward and top 4 dman with 7.7 in cap space. Our best bet is a guy like Marleau taking a cup-hunting/bonus heavy deal. Paying Shatty 6 though kills the dream of getting a top 6 forward as well. HOWEVER - if instead of getting Shatty in FA we get a guy like Nate Schmidt or CDH or even a Scandella, our universe opens up quite a bit.

Namestnikov - Stamkos - Kucherov
Palat - Johnson - Gourde
Killorn - Point - Callahan
Erne - Paquette - Brown
Dumont

We could probably use a 2RW to upgrade Gourde then put Gourde on the 3/4th line to improve the bottom 6, but that's 1 forward and not 3.

Hedman - Dotchin
Coburn - Stralman
Koekkoek - Sustr
Witkowski

We could upgrade on Coburn to move him to the bottom pair, but that pushes Koekkoek out. Or upgrade Sustr but a 3rd pair defender isn't much. They refused to trade or send Witkowski down last year in fear he would get claimed so would seem they want him back.

We don't really need anybody, give Gourde, Erne, Dotchin and Koekkoek the chance to impact the roster instead of bringing in someone to push them to the press box and kill their development.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

All that said, looking at next summer... could just be lining ourselves up to get a little help now, lets some kids run, and then chase a bigger fish next summer.

https://capfriendly.com/browse/free-agents/2019/caphit/all/defense

 

[Rschmitz]

We need 3 forwards at minimum right now (4 if you count burying Condra, and 5 if you count a 13th [although one of those is likely to be Erne]), so that's going to eat some of that cap space. I think we need 3 Dmen signed (two of them are likely to be Koekkoek and Dotchin - possibly Sustr) + 1 more for a 7th. So I count, before re-signing anyone, 8 roster spots to fill with 23 million.

Erne is like 700k. Dotchin and KK will likely be around 1.1 or so. Call the three of them 3. 20 million to fill 5 spots. 11 million to Johnson and Palat. 9 to fill 3 spots. Burying Condra gives us 10 to fill 4 again (two dmen and two forwards - we'd like one top six and top 4 ideally). Say Sustr at 1.4 again. 8.6 for 3 spots. 900k to Gourde gives us 7.7 for 2 spots.

We're likely going to have trouble getting both a top 6 forward and top 4 dman with 7.7 in cap space. Our best bet is a guy like Marleau taking a cup-hunting/bonus heavy deal. Paying Shatty 6 though kills the dream of getting a top 6 forward as well. HOWEVER - if instead of getting Shatty in FA we get a guy like Nate Schmidt or CDH or even a Scandella, our universe opens up quite a bit.

I'm not fixated on Shatty, but there's smoke there. If we didn't make a single more on D, I'd be ok with that, I just don't believe that is what Yzerman is going to do.