Salary Cap: 2017-18 Roster Building Thread VI | Contract/FA charts in Post #1 | CAP SET at $75M

[Speaking Moistly]

So the whole Pouliot thing. I said I'd do this more in depth and I've gotten around to it because coffee. A top 10 pick who isn't an NHL regular after 5 seasons is a really ****ing bad sign. I included some of the more borderline ones. Year 5 seems to be the uh oh point. It's not to say that every top 10 pick who is an NHL regular in the 5 years after being drafted is great or that after the 5 year mark there's no career at all but it's not good. You could say some guys were rushed and suffered for it, some of these might have injury stuff I didn't dig up, some of them may have been the 7D/13F in the NHL.

Top 10 drafted players who weren't sticking in the NHL in the 5 seasons after being drafted.

1990 Draft
Scott Scissons C 6OA, 2 NHL games
John Slaney D 9OA, 258 NHL games, played 47 NHL games and 29 AHL games in 93-94 before bouncing around and eventually settling outside of the NHL.
Drake Berehowsky D 10OA, was in the NHL by 93-94 (49NHL vs 18AHL)/94-95 (29NHL only), took until 97-98 to stick in the NHL for years. Eventually played 549 NHL games. Took a long ****ing time.

1991
Aaron Ward D 5OA, 839 NHL games played, took until 96-97 but it was alright
Alek Stojanov RW 7OA, took until 95-96 to make the NHL full time as an enforcer

1992
Mike Rathje D 3OA took until 96-97 (31NHL only) or 97-98 (81NHL) but he ultimately played 768 NHL games.
Ryan Sittler LW 7OA, never because of injuries
Brandon Convery C 8OA, bust that never became a full time NHL player
Robert Petrovicky C 9OA, bounced around between leagues and teams

1993
NONE

1994
Jason Bonsignore C 4OA, bust
Brett Lindros RW 9OA, concussion problems ended his career but he was in the NHL when that happened... his career with 7 points in 51 NHL games... idk what would have happened there if he'd been healthy
Nolan Baumgarter D 10OA, bust

1995
Steve Kelly C 6OA bust
Terry Ryan LW 8OA, bust and career ending injury

1996
Andrei Zyuzin D 2OA, took until 2000-2001 but the next season played 9NHL and 3AHL. Probably injury but he went on to play 496 NHL games
Alexander Volchkov LW 4OA, bust
Ric Jackman D 5OA, bounced around a lot, somehow only productive with the Pens and played 231 NHL games partly as a 7D type I think. I guess he stuck in the NHL from 2002-2003 onward for awhile.
Johnathan Aitken D 8OA, bust
Lance Ward D 10OA, took until 2001-2002 to stick in the NHL 209 NHL games as an enforcer?

1997
Daniel Tkaczuk C 6OA, bust

1998
Rico Fata RW 6OA, made the 5 year mark with help from that special era of the Pens and still nothing. Played 230 NHL games. Gen X Pens were generous to some of these guys.
Mike Rupp C 9OA, stuck in the NHL in 2003-2004. He played 610 games but had 99 points from a top 10 pick.

1999
Pavel Brendl RW 4OA, bust
Brian Finley G 6OA, bust
Kris Beech C 7OA, bust even though the Pens skewed it for a bit. 198 NHL games played.
Jamie Lundmark C 9OA, was in the NHL by 2002-2003 but it didn't last. Ultimately 295 NHL games played.
Branislav Mezei D 10OA, stuck by 2003-2004, 240 NHL games played, still ehhhh for a top 10 pick

2000
Lars Jonsson D 7OA, bust
Nikita Alexeev RW 8OA, Eventually stuck by 2006-2007 and then went overseas. 150 NHL games played
Brent Krahn G 9OA, bust
Mikhhail Yakubov C 10OA, bust

2001
Alexander Svitov C 3OA, 2002-2003? Nope, back to splitting time. 2006-2007? No. Overseas after 76 games.
Dan Blackburn G 10OA, ended up retiring due injury

2002
Petr Taticek C 9OA, bust
Eric Nystrom LW 10OA, injuries probably helped push him to 2008-2009 to stick in the NHL. Went on to play 593 NHL games... with 123 points.

2003
NONE

2004
Al Montoya G 6OA, up and down until 2011-2012. Career backup
Alexander Picard LW 8OA, bust
Boris Valabik D 10OA, 50NHL and 11AHL in 2008-2009. Still busted.

2005
Jack Skille RW 7OA, took until 2010-2011 to stick. 368 NHL games with 84 points... it's an NHL career.
Brian Lee D 9OA, took until 2010-2011 to stick. 209 NHL games and done after 2012-2013 with a knee injury contributing.

2006
NONE

2007
Thomas Hickey D/LW 4OA, wasn't a full time NHL player until 2013-2014
Zach Hamill C 8OA, bust

2008
Nikita Filatov LW 6OA, played 53 NHL games and back to the KHL

2009
Scott Glennie RW 8OA, bust
Magnus Paajarvi LW 10OA, stuck in the NHL and then Oilers

2010
Dylan McIlrath D 10OA, played 43 NHL games

2011
NONE

2012
Nail Yakupov RW 1OA, meets it and is still a bust.
Griffin Reinhart D 4OA, busting hard
Derrick Pouliot D 8OA, god damn it
Slater Koekkoek D 10OA, we're not alone

 

[Honour Over Glory]

He was fantastic this year. He was one of the main reasons they made the playoffs. Excellent playmaker and an absolute puck hound.

And from everything I was hearing locally, they were going to give him whatever he wanted because he was that important to a team that simply couldn't score goals, but the Drouin move changed all that.

It's not the first time a player "priced" himself out of a team and then signs for less elsewhere.

It's like the nice way of saying "I don't want to play for you."

 

[hagelin1381]

That Pouliot pick looks even worse now than it did at the time. And it looked bad at the time. Might as well try to trade him for whatever and see if he can revitalize his career elsewhere, cause it ain't gonna be here

 

[Jag68Sid87]

If there's a deal and somebody wants Pouliot, sure.

Otherwise, hold onto him. This is his make-or-break season. He knows what's what. He has to crack the champs, not an also-ran. It takes a little extra.

We have to give him one more shot, and then we can say it's over for Pouliot. Why sell low?

 

[Pens x]

We still can't totally escape Shero's reign of failures, Pouliot was an awful pick then and still continues to be.

 

[Empoleon8771]

We still can't totally escape Shero's reign of failures, Pouliot was an awful pick then and still continues to be.

Yeah, Shero's reign of failures gave us those scrubs Guentzel, Murray, Rust, Wilson, Kuhnhack, Maatta Dumoulin. What a joke, right?

 

[888 98 twins]

Just keep him on the roster as the extra LHD. Pouliot-Ruhwedel is the "4th pair".

 

[Coastal Kev]

Yeah, Shero's reign of failures gave us those scrubs Guentzel, Murray, Rust, Wilson, Kuhnhack, Maatta Dumoulin. What a joke, right?

Shero was a mixed bag, as much as you want to credit him for the players you listed, each probably would have been traded for a crusty vet rental.

 

[66-30-33]

Shero was a mixed bag, as much as you want to credit him for the players you listed, each probably would have been traded for a crusty vet rental.

Morrow for Morrow.

 

[The Gobfather*]

Shero was a mixed bag, as much as you want to credit him for the players you listed, each probably would have been traded for a crusty vet rental.

Gotta have that veteran leadership

 

[Malkinstheman]

Morrow for Morrow.

The third round pick that came with Brendan turned into Guentzel...so im not complaining.

 

[Peat]

Morrow for Morrow.

There's an Annie joke there somewhere but I can't figure it out right now.

 

[66-30-33]

If we could get Radulov at 5.5M for say 4 years? i'd probably do it. Then trade Maatta+Sheary for Duchene at 50% off, look to add a few Dmen. Rad could then play with Malkin and Hagelin. Horny with G and Crosby. Kessel with Duchene and Rust.

 

[888 98 twins]

Rangers fans seemed to like Brendan Smith a lot. Has anyone watched him enough to give some info? Would he be an upgrade on Daley? Can he play both sides?

 

[Peat]

If we could get Radulov at 5.5M for say 4 years? i'd probably do it. Then trade Maatta+Sheary for Duchene at 50% off, look to add a few Dmen. Rad could then play with Malkin and Hagelin. Horny with G and Crosby. Kessel with Duchene and Rust.

That sounds great if you have mind control drugs to prevent Radulov deciding halfway through he'd rather be elsewhere and also getting Sakic to agree to that trade.

 

[Jacob]

Rangers fans seemed to like Brendan Smith a lot. Has anyone watched him enough to give some info? Would he be an upgrade on Daley? Can he play both sides?

I know he can play the right side and did so with the Rangers and Wings. I think he'd be a solid 3rd pairing guy, though style-wise he's more like Cole than Daley.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I wouldn't have grouped Galy in with Kovulchump and Radulaugh, but Schultz and Kessel never left to play in another league when they didn't get what they wanted or when things were tough. It's a bad comparison. Both of those guys quit on their teams, period.

Again no denying the talent. It's about stability and making sure you got guys who are worth every penny and who are going to stick around for a while without drawing attention to their themselves and their high maintenance needs.

Galchenyuk is definitely in a different category from the other two, but the point remains. A lot of players considered "losers who quit on their team" were able to contribute immensely to Cup winners when put in the right position (many would have put Schultz and Kessel in that category). We do have to manage risk/reward with these types of guys, but we also need to recognize what those guys could bring us.

For the record, I'm not big on bringing in Kovy or Radulov because of the inherent risk involved in the size of their contracts.

 

[exHornet]

If we could get Radulov at 5.5M for say 4 years? i'd probably do it. Then trade Maatta+Sheary for Duchene at 50% off, look to add a few Dmen. Rad could then play with Malkin and Hagelin. Horny with G and Crosby. Kessel with Duchene and Rust.

For that kind of money Radulov would just stay in Russia.

 

[madinsomniac]

The thing is people always want to compare drafts like they are all the same.. they aren't... if 18 year olds Lemieux Crosby, Malkin, Jagr, Gretzky, AO, McDavid, Matthews, Kane, Stamkos, and Tavares all were in the same draft the 11th overall no matter who it was would be amazing... in another year you could have the top overall talent be a longshot to do anything... there are drafts where the second rounders would be firsts in another year, and first rounders would never be drafted that high had they been eligible in the year before or after

No two drafts are remotely the same talentwise

Thats why you look at who was available and what they were flawed or excelled at at that point to judge how good a job the pick was

For the Pouliot pick, the consensus was he was a second or low first rounder

The pens had two #1 picks that year, one top ten and one near the bottom

The pens had a glut of Defensive prospects, and desperately needed wingers

The Pens Took pouliot over the likely 2nd best winger in the draft who probaby ended up the best winger drafted that year...

Pouliot still hasn't broken through and Forsberg has contributed for years now

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Rangers fans seemed to like Brendan Smith a lot. Has anyone watched him enough to give some info? Would he be an upgrade on Daley? Can he play both sides?

Yes, Brendan Smith can play both sides.

I think the Rangers will bring him back, though.

Galchenyuk is definitely in a different category from the other two, but the point remains. A lot of players considered "losers who quit on their team" were able to contribute immensely to Cup winners when put in the right position (many would have put Schultz and Kessel in that category). We do have to manage risk/reward with these types of guys, but we also need to recognize what those guys could bring us.

For the record, I'm not big on bringing in Kovy or Radulov because of the inherent risk involved in the size of their contracts.

That's the thing about Galchenyuk. He's an RFA. He has a LOT to prove next season. I'd sign him to a one-year, prove-it-to-me deal and hope he just tears it up.

Then you figure it out later. At worst, he plays so well with us that he is now too expensive for us and he has to move on again. We would get a ton in return.

There is always a lot of value in acquiring buy-low guys, and it has already worked greatly with both Kessel and Schultz.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Galchenyuk is definitely in a different category from the other two, but the point remains. A lot of players considered "losers who quit on their team" were able to contribute immensely to Cup winners when put in the right position (many would have put Schultz and Kessel in that category). We do have to manage risk/reward with these types of guys, but we also need to recognize what those guys could bring us.

For the record, I'm not big on bringing in Kovy or Radulov because of the inherent risk involved in the size of their contracts.

I'm more worried about him not being an NHL C but the price not reflecting that of a top 6 C with upside still. The other two age, cost and bolted before.

 

[cygnus47]

I'm more worried about him not being an NHL C but the price not reflecting that of a top 6 C with upside still. The other two age, cost and bolted before.

Between Therrien and Bergevin I'm sure that its some stupid archaic argument as to why he's not suited to centre. I wouldn't give up on the guy until he gets a chance to prove himself with a quality coach at centre.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Demers is an interesting case since his name popped up again today.

But i think the money out, money in deal JR is looking for might be to beef up his C position. Duchene/Galchyenuk...

Then he'll look at the non-top tier D FA's to beef up his D.
Smith, Kulikov, Franson, maybe Daley back etc. etc.

Theres ALOT of teams shopping for D which will drive prices up for the marquee guys(Hamonic, MIN D-Man, Demers...). MTL, BUF, OTT now, and so on and so on.
But on the flip side of that McPhee is desperate to unload...thus Shlemko goes for peanuts.
Problem there is the guys he's still looking to unload have hefty cap hits.
So they may cost less to acquire but doesn't help us specifically at all.
Why i think JR will stay out of that market and hit the lesser/lower tier guys on the FA market.
Sell them on coming to PIT for a little cheaper.
So i see him being really busy during that 3 day UFA interview period coming up real soon here.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

So the whole Pouliot thing. I said I'd do this more in depth and I've gotten around to it because coffee. A top 10 pick who isn't an NHL regular after 5 seasons is a really ****ing bad sign. I included some of the more borderline ones. Year 5 seems to be the uh oh point. It's not to say that every top 10 pick who is an NHL regular in the 5 years after being drafted is great or that after the 5 year mark there's no career at all but it's not good. You could say some guys were rushed and suffered for it, some of these might have injury stuff I didn't dig up, some of them may have been the 7D/13F in the NHL.

Top 10 drafted players who weren't sticking in the NHL in the 5 seasons after being drafted.

1990 Draft
Scott Scissons C 6OA, 2 NHL games
John Slaney D 9OA, 258 NHL games, played 47 NHL games and 29 AHL games in 93-94 before bouncing around and eventually settling outside of the NHL.
Drake Berehowsky D 10OA, was in the NHL by 93-94 (49NHL vs 18AHL)/94-95 (29NHL only), took until 97-98 to stick in the NHL for years. Eventually played 549 NHL games. Took a long ****ing time.

1991
Aaron Ward D 5OA, 839 NHL games played, took until 96-97 but it was alright
Alek Stojanov RW 7OA, took until 95-96 to make the NHL full time as an enforcer

1992
Mike Rathje D 3OA took until 96-97 (31NHL only) or 97-98 (81NHL) but he ultimately played 768 NHL games.
Ryan Sittler LW 7OA, never because of injuries
Brandon Convery C 8OA, bust that never became a full time NHL player
Robert Petrovicky C 9OA, bounced around between leagues and teams

1993
NONE

1994
Jason Bonsignore C 4OA, bust
Brett Lindros RW 9OA, concussion problems ended his career but he was in the NHL when that happened... his career with 7 points in 51 NHL games... idk what would have happened there if he'd been healthy
Nolan Baumgarter D 10OA, bust

1995
Steve Kelly C 6OA bust
Terry Ryan LW 8OA, bust and career ending injury

1996
Andrei Zyuzin D 2OA, took until 2000-2001 but the next season played 9NHL and 3AHL. Probably injury but he went on to play 496 NHL games
Alexander Volchkov LW 4OA, bust
Ric Jackman D 5OA, bounced around a lot, somehow only productive with the Pens and played 231 NHL games partly as a 7D type I think. I guess he stuck in the NHL from 2002-2003 onward for awhile.
Johnathan Aitken D 8OA, bust
Lance Ward D 10OA, took until 2001-2002 to stick in the NHL 209 NHL games as an enforcer?

1997
Daniel Tkaczuk C 6OA, bust

1998
Rico Fata RW 6OA, made the 5 year mark with help from that special era of the Pens and still nothing. Played 230 NHL games. Gen X Pens were generous to some of these guys.
Mike Rupp C 9OA, stuck in the NHL in 2003-2004. He played 610 games but had 99 points from a top 10 pick.

1999
Pavel Brendl RW 4OA, bust
Brian Finley G 6OA, bust
Kris Beech C 7OA, bust even though the Pens skewed it for a bit. 198 NHL games played.
Jamie Lundmark C 9OA, was in the NHL by 2002-2003 but it didn't last. Ultimately 295 NHL games played.
Branislav Mezei D 10OA, stuck by 2003-2004, 240 NHL games played, still ehhhh for a top 10 pick

2000
Lars Jonsson D 7OA, bust
Nikita Alexeev RW 8OA, Eventually stuck by 2006-2007 and then went overseas. 150 NHL games played
Brent Krahn G 9OA, bust
Mikhhail Yakubov C 10OA, bust

2001
Alexander Svitov C 3OA, 2002-2003? Nope, back to splitting time. 2006-2007? No. Overseas after 76 games.
Dan Blackburn G 10OA, ended up retiring due injury

2002
Petr Taticek C 9OA, bust
Eric Nystrom LW 10OA, injuries probably helped push him to 2008-2009 to stick in the NHL. Went on to play 593 NHL games... with 123 points.

2003
NONE

2004
Al Montoya G 6OA, up and down until 2011-2012. Career backup
Alexander Picard LW 8OA, bust
Boris Valabik D 10OA, 50NHL and 11AHL in 2008-2009. Still busted.

2005
Jack Skille RW 7OA, took until 2010-2011 to stick. 368 NHL games with 84 points... it's an NHL career.
Brian Lee D 9OA, took until 2010-2011 to stick. 209 NHL games and done after 2012-2013 with a knee injury contributing.

2006
NONE

2007
Thomas Hickey D/LW 4OA, wasn't a full time NHL player until 2013-2014
Zach Hamill C 8OA, bust

2008
Nikita Filatov LW 6OA, played 53 NHL games and back to the KHL

2009
Scott Glennie RW 8OA, bust
Magnus Paajarvi LW 10OA, stuck in the NHL and then Oilers

2010
Dylan McIlrath D 10OA, played 43 NHL games

2011
NONE

2012
Nail Yakupov RW 1OA, meets it and is still a bust.
Griffin Reinhart D 4OA, busting hard
Derrick Pouliot D 8OA, god damn it
Slater Koekkoek D 10OA, we're not alone

Why are you pretending you weren't all for that pick when it was originally made?

 

[WayneSid9987]

Also on Duchene, MTL has zero D to trade for him now.
Latest from the Isles is they dropped pursuing him(latest IT) and NSH doesn't wanna give up any of their top 5 D for him.
JR might be able to squeeze in there now if Sakic must deal him this summer.
Sure theres others pursuing but are they willing to deal their big name young D-Man?