Jack Burton
Pro Tank Since 13
Agree.
Dorion is a desperate GM because he knows the window is closing and desperate GM's do stupid things.
Makes ya squeeze that butt hole a little tighter thinking what Benning and Linden are going to do next eh.
2017-18 Around the League Thread - Part III
- Thread starter Bleach Clean
- Start date
- Status
Dorion is a desperate GM because he knows the window is closing and desperate GM's do stupid things.
Makes ya squeeze that butt hole a little tighter thinking what Benning and Linden are going to do next eh.
Melvin
21/12/05
My dream scenario is that we fire Benning, Edmonton picks him up as agm, and those two dnglebats completely f*** over that team for a good ten years.
Jack Burton
Pro Tank Since 13
Yep. I personally did a little dance when I heard that Chia got hired...couldn't have happened to a better team
Josepho
i want the bartkowski thread back
The Oilers have so many issues - but most stem from Kevin Lowe and Darrell Katz.
Despite all of their high first round picks, the Oilers have drafted really poorly. Since 2010 - Martin Marancin in the only 2nd round pick to have developed into anything. Actually, you could go back to 2007 because they traded away their 2nd round picks in 2007 and 2008, and drafted Anton Lander in 2009. Tyler Benson is developing well, but not in the NHL yet. But that's not a lot of returns from over a decade of 2nd round picks. Over the same period - Anton Slepyshev and Jujhar Khaira are the only 3rd round picks to have developed - but again, they traded away a lot of picks as well.
In the first round, they almost always pick the BPA - Gagner, Plante, Nash, Eberle, Paajarvi-Svensson, Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Klefbom, Yakupov, Nurse, Draisaitl, McDavid, Puljujarvi, Yakamoto. But only Nurse and Klefbom on defense. Even in 2012 when they picked Yakupov 1st overall, they waited until their 5th pick (4th round) to select a defenseman - in a draft that was loaded with D. You would think at that point, with some mixed opinions on Yakupov even at the time, they might have traded down to select one of Ryan Murray, Griffin Reinhart (whom they later traded for, and then exposed to expansion), Morgan Rielly, Hampus Lindholm, Mathew Dumba, Derrick Pouliot, Jacob Trouba or Slater Koekkoek who were all picked in the top 10. To be sure, Reinhart and Koekkoek have not panned out and Pouliot is a work in progress still, but how would Trouba or Rielly look on the Oilers blue line?
They have also rebuilt 4 times in the last decade plus.
The first was following the Pronger trade when they jettisoned Pronger (forced), Spacek, Peca, Samsonov, Smyth and drafted or acquired Sam Gagner, Andrew Cogliano, Robert Nilsson, Tom Gilbert, Dustin Penner, Sheldon Souray, Mike Comrie, Mathieu Garon and Dwayne Rolosen. They also drafted Paajarvi-Svensson and Eberle after climbing briefly out of the cellar, but this turned into just a dead cat bounce.
So they reset again. Kevin Lowe kicked himself upstairs and hired Tambellini who shipped out Mathieu Garon, Sheldon Souray, Steve Staios, Dustin Penner, Andrew Cogliano, Tim Gilbert, Eric Cole and Kyle Brodziak and brought in Patrick O'Sullivan, Ales Kotalik, Ryan Whitney, Colten Teubert, Ryan Smyth (again) and Nick Schultz - and drafted Taylor Hall, Tyler Pitlick, Marty Marancin, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Oscar Klefbom, David Musil and Nail Yakupov. They also hired Pat Quinn and Tom Renney, and the Ralph Krueger, then Dallas Eakins. This time they didn't even get the dead cat bounce.
So they Lowe fired Tambellini, and hired Craig McTavish and rebuilt again - shipping out Ales Hemsky, Shawn Horcoff, Paajarvi-Svensson, Devan Dubnyk, Sam Gagner, David Perron, Jeff Petry, Ben Eager, Ryan Jones and Tobias Rieder - bringing in Darnell Nurse, Anton Slepyshev, Denis Grebeshkov, David Perron, Ilya Bryzgalov, Leon Draisaitl, Benoit Pouliot, Mark Fayne, Nikita Nikitin, Teddy Purcell, Matt Hendricks, Ben Scrivens etc. etc. Again - not even an up tick in performances, so ...
Do we call the Chiarelli era a seperate rebuild or a continuation the the McTavish teardown? Out went Boyd Gordon, Keith Aulie, Martin Marincin, Derek Roy, Viktor Fasth, Taylor Hall, Nail Yakupov, Ben Scrivens, Justin Schultz, Teddy Purcell, Benoit Pouliot, Jordan Eberle, Brandon Davidson, Griffin Reinhart (in and out), Tyler Pitlick, David Desharnais (in and out again), Anders Nilsson (in and out again) Matt Hendricks and in came Connor McDavid, Andrej Sekera, Cam Talbot, Mark Letestu, Eric Gryba, Adam Larsson, Patrick Maroon, Matt Benning, Kris Russell, Zack Kassian, Jesse Puljujarvi, Drake Caggiula, Milan Lucic, Ryan Strome, Kailer Yamamoto andJussi Jokinen Mike Cammellari.
They aslso developed poorly. In an article in yesterdays Edmonton Journal, Elliott Friedman wrote a piece that basically tees off on the Oilers player development - highlighting the mishandling of prospects both in the NHL and in their AHL team, Bakersfield. Apparently they tend to favour veterans with prime (PP) ice time over prospects like Caleb Jones, Ethan Bear and Ryan Mantha, Jordan Oesterle and Joey LaLeggia. Others have been rushed to the NHL prematurely and lost confidence. He listed the many failed prospects including David Musil, Travis Ewanyk, Curtis Hamilton, Colton Teubert, Mitch Moroz Marco Roy, Bogdan Yakimov, Ryan Martindale, etc.
Now where are they? They are built very poorly with the fastest player in the world surrounded by a bunch of big slow forwards and a static, porous defense. Theuy are currently second last in the Western Conference and facing some serious salary cap decisions (likely Ryan Nugent-Hopkins) in the spring, and likely a couple of panic trades in the next few weeks. This is what happens when rebuilds fail. Not that all rebuilds fail, but in the salary cap world a rebuild has to be steep and deep. If it takes too long or has to reset midway through you risk running into salary cap issues before you become competitive.
Despite all of their high first round picks, the Oilers have drafted really poorly. Since 2010 - Martin Marancin in the only 2nd round pick to have developed into anything. Actually, you could go back to 2007 because they traded away their 2nd round picks in 2007 and 2008, and drafted Anton Lander in 2009. Tyler Benson is developing well, but not in the NHL yet. But that's not a lot of returns from over a decade of 2nd round picks. Over the same period - Anton Slepyshev and Jujhar Khaira are the only 3rd round picks to have developed - but again, they traded away a lot of picks as well.
In the first round, they almost always pick the BPA - Gagner, Plante, Nash, Eberle, Paajarvi-Svensson, Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Klefbom, Yakupov, Nurse, Draisaitl, McDavid, Puljujarvi, Yakamoto. But only Nurse and Klefbom on defense. Even in 2012 when they picked Yakupov 1st overall, they waited until their 5th pick (4th round) to select a defenseman - in a draft that was loaded with D. You would think at that point, with some mixed opinions on Yakupov even at the time, they might have traded down to select one of Ryan Murray, Griffin Reinhart (whom they later traded for, and then exposed to expansion), Morgan Rielly, Hampus Lindholm, Mathew Dumba, Derrick Pouliot, Jacob Trouba or Slater Koekkoek who were all picked in the top 10. To be sure, Reinhart and Koekkoek have not panned out and Pouliot is a work in progress still, but how would Trouba or Rielly look on the Oilers blue line?
They have also rebuilt 4 times in the last decade plus.
The first was following the Pronger trade when they jettisoned Pronger (forced), Spacek, Peca, Samsonov, Smyth and drafted or acquired Sam Gagner, Andrew Cogliano, Robert Nilsson, Tom Gilbert, Dustin Penner, Sheldon Souray, Mike Comrie, Mathieu Garon and Dwayne Rolosen. They also drafted Paajarvi-Svensson and Eberle after climbing briefly out of the cellar, but this turned into just a dead cat bounce.
So they reset again. Kevin Lowe kicked himself upstairs and hired Tambellini who shipped out Mathieu Garon, Sheldon Souray, Steve Staios, Dustin Penner, Andrew Cogliano, Tim Gilbert, Eric Cole and Kyle Brodziak and brought in Patrick O'Sullivan, Ales Kotalik, Ryan Whitney, Colten Teubert, Ryan Smyth (again) and Nick Schultz - and drafted Taylor Hall, Tyler Pitlick, Marty Marancin, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Oscar Klefbom, David Musil and Nail Yakupov. They also hired Pat Quinn and Tom Renney, and the Ralph Krueger, then Dallas Eakins. This time they didn't even get the dead cat bounce.
So they Lowe fired Tambellini, and hired Craig McTavish and rebuilt again - shipping out Ales Hemsky, Shawn Horcoff, Paajarvi-Svensson, Devan Dubnyk, Sam Gagner, David Perron, Jeff Petry, Ben Eager, Ryan Jones and Tobias Rieder - bringing in Darnell Nurse, Anton Slepyshev, Denis Grebeshkov, David Perron, Ilya Bryzgalov, Leon Draisaitl, Benoit Pouliot, Mark Fayne, Nikita Nikitin, Teddy Purcell, Matt Hendricks, Ben Scrivens etc. etc. Again - not even an up tick in performances, so ...
Do we call the Chiarelli era a seperate rebuild or a continuation the the McTavish teardown? Out went Boyd Gordon, Keith Aulie, Martin Marincin, Derek Roy, Viktor Fasth, Taylor Hall, Nail Yakupov, Ben Scrivens, Justin Schultz, Teddy Purcell, Benoit Pouliot, Jordan Eberle, Brandon Davidson, Griffin Reinhart (in and out), Tyler Pitlick, David Desharnais (in and out again), Anders Nilsson (in and out again) Matt Hendricks and in came Connor McDavid, Andrej Sekera, Cam Talbot, Mark Letestu, Eric Gryba, Adam Larsson, Patrick Maroon, Matt Benning, Kris Russell, Zack Kassian, Jesse Puljujarvi, Drake Caggiula, Milan Lucic, Ryan Strome, Kailer Yamamoto and
They aslso developed poorly. In an article in yesterdays Edmonton Journal, Elliott Friedman wrote a piece that basically tees off on the Oilers player development - highlighting the mishandling of prospects both in the NHL and in their AHL team, Bakersfield. Apparently they tend to favour veterans with prime (PP) ice time over prospects like Caleb Jones, Ethan Bear and Ryan Mantha, Jordan Oesterle and Joey LaLeggia. Others have been rushed to the NHL prematurely and lost confidence. He listed the many failed prospects including David Musil, Travis Ewanyk, Curtis Hamilton, Colton Teubert, Mitch Moroz Marco Roy, Bogdan Yakimov, Ryan Martindale, etc.
Now where are they? They are built very poorly with the fastest player in the world surrounded by a bunch of big slow forwards and a static, porous defense. Theuy are currently second last in the Western Conference and facing some serious salary cap decisions (likely Ryan Nugent-Hopkins) in the spring, and likely a couple of panic trades in the next few weeks. This is what happens when rebuilds fail. Not that all rebuilds fail, but in the salary cap world a rebuild has to be steep and deep. If it takes too long or has to reset midway through you risk running into salary cap issues before you become competitive.
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
Makes me kind of glad we got Benning & Aquaman instead.....
"They also hired Pat Quinn and Tom Renney, and the Ralph Krueger, then Dallas Eakins. This time they didn't even get the dead cat bounce."
Actually you don't give Krueger enough credit; the Coilers FINALLY hire a coach that looks like he has the team heading in the right direction but they proceed to **** it up by firing him & replacing him with Eakins. It's like the Willie hiring in reverse (though I'm insulting Willie here by comparing him in any way to Eakins).
Melvin
21/12/05
Yeah, that was classic Oilers. Dallas Eakins was like this young rockstar coach on the market and the moment we showed interest in him the Oilers just had to have him, even though Kruger was actually getting results for them.
Knew from his introduction press conference that he was a vapid bowl of vacuity.
Knew from his introduction press conference that he was a vapid bowl of vacuity.
Hehe I do have to say that Eakins is one of the VERY few coaches whom I'd consider as more of a waste of space on a team than Willie. Both are hilariously incompetent but one is a slightly nicer person than the other.
Josepho
i want the bartkowski thread back
I hated Willie a lot, but he's miles better as a coach than Eakins -- who is probably the worst coach I've ever seen at the NHL level.
Willie just had absurd deployments, Eakins actively had an atrocious system that's junior level. Let me bust out the pictures again...
With a competent coach instead of Eakins, that Hall-RNH-Yakupov-Eberle-Draisaitl-Klefbom core actually becomes respectable and they probably squeak into a wildcard every once in a while.
Willie just had absurd deployments, Eakins actively had an atrocious system that's junior level. Let me bust out the pictures again...
With a competent coach instead of Eakins, that Hall-RNH-Yakupov-Eberle-Draisaitl-Klefbom core actually becomes respectable and they probably squeak into a wildcard every once in a while.
Oh yeah almost forgot about Yakupov. I mean sure he's not like Patrick Kane kinda 1st overall but Eakins really crushed the kid's confidence and f***ed up him for good.
Yeah - the point wasn't that Krueger was bad, it was that they went through 6 coaches (Quinn, Renney, Krueger, Eakins, Nelson and McLellan) between 2009 and 2015. Eakins was bad on a Bill LaForge level and Nelson was just a placeholder.
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
Fair enough; I agree with that (revolving door on coaches isn't a recipe for success).
Ace of Hades
#Demko4Vezina
Barzal keeps racking up assists, another secondary right now, boesers got some work to do. The one thing going in barzals favor right now is the islanders are right near the top for scoring in the league with a mediocre lineup imo, i honestly dont believe that team will keep that pace up, but we shall see. They are near the leafs and tampa for scoring the most goals in the league.
Marchessault on fire this week. Back to back 3 point nights and 2 through the first half of today’s game.
He was a tremendous signing by the Panthers last off-season and Tallon made a huge mistake leaving him unprotected. Bjugstad should have been the guy left unprotected. The likely reason was they worried what a contract would cost if he duplicated his season...so they lose him for nothing instead of dealing him the next deadline (or actually having secondary scoring and a better team).
Smith-marchessault-karlsson.....all 26 and under and at or near at PPG.
From the expansion draft and a 4th round pick.
He was a tremendous signing by the Panthers last off-season and Tallon made a huge mistake leaving him unprotected. Bjugstad should have been the guy left unprotected. The likely reason was they worried what a contract would cost if he duplicated his season...so they lose him for nothing instead of dealing him the next deadline (or actually having secondary scoring and a better team).
Smith-marchessault-karlsson.....all 26 and under and at or near at PPG.
From the expansion draft and a 4th round pick.
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Holy moly the Sabres are terrible. Really goes to show that tanking is questionable as a means to an effective team assembly.
Eddy Punch Clock
Jack Adams 2028
Thats right cause it didn't work when Chicago did it or the pens Lightning, Kings at one point.
No tanking is not the problem, it is a means to achieve an end, which is obtaining young elite talent to build the team around. You need competent coach, good role players for secondary scoring, decent veteran players for guidance and leadership, and good goalie to bail the team out when the time comes.
If you only have those talents and nothing else you end up like Buffalo, or that Albertan team.
DL44
Status quo
That was a thing of beauty!
Altho not technically a superman punch since he didnt leave the ice and 'fly'.. same result tho.
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