2017-18 Around the League Thread - Part III

[tantalum]

Obviously the trade didn't work, but a playoff contending team trading a draft pick or average prospect to help their current team is a defensible move in terms of process. Some of Benning's other moves when the team is (or should be) in a clear rebuild are worse.

Again the thought process is defensible. The general bones of the deal is defensible. The evaluations they made and therefore the trade absolutely are not defensible. That was absolutely brutal and hurts the team significantly today.

 

[m9]

Seems like everyone forgets about Sanguinetti when talking about the Forsling trade.

The Canucks had one of the best AHL defencemen in Sanguinetti at the time of the trade. Instead of giving Sanguinetti even a one game trial, the Canucks threw away one of their top prospects for another AHL defencemen. Sanguinetti doesn't have Clendening's skating issues either.

Forsling wasn't a middle prospect or equivalent to a mid round pick at the time of the trade. Only Hedman and Larsson had played more minutes as 18 year old defencemen in the SHL. Plus he did pretty well in the WJC.

He was a 5th round pick that had improved his value for sure, probably worth a 3rd rounder. He was not a top-tier prospect at the time of the trade.

Again, in terms of process these type of trades are okay. If you are trying to win your division and be a playoff team, you trade 3rd round picks and equivalent prospects to get there. If you are out, you do the opposite. Trading multiple young pieces for Gudbranson when the team is one of the worst in the league is far worse.

 

[m9]

Again the thought process is defensible. The general bones of the deal is defensible. The evaluations they made and therefore the trade absolutely are not defensible. That was absolutely brutal and hurts the team significantly today.

Absolutely.

 

[Ainec]

f*** I wanted Sergachev or Keller with that Juolevi pick

 

[Bad Goalie]

Forsling turning into everything Chicago hoped for. Dumped a guy they didn't see any future in for a young prospect playing well in Sweden. Now at 21 he is a top 4 D-man playing on the PP and getting @20 minutes of ice per night.

Seems like one GM has scouts he trusted to decide which of the 2 was the better risk. Got a top 4 and rising for nothing!

I watched him tonight and the MSNBC crew in the studio did nothing but sing his praises and he lived up to the off ice accolades on the ice.

Watched two guys Benning basically threw away who would look awfully good in Vancouver's lineup today. McCann is a better center than either Burmistrov or Granlund and Forsling ids the PP D-man everyone cries every game the "Nucks don't have.

Had Benning recognized the facts before him and that a rebuild and not a retool was right in front of his face, drafted the BPA every chance he had, kept his picks and thus drafted even more, let his young draftees come of age, and the current Canucks would be an amazingly promising young hockey club on the rise.

There is no way that Boeser and the pipeline coming wouldn't be eclipsed by the same group, + all he gave away in middling successful trades, + those he gave away in lost trades, + the BPAs he let slide through his fingers, the idiotic free agent signings, the extensions and NTCs he gave to guys he never should have extended in the first place,+ all he didn't draft because he ****ed away the picks. Those high level prospect kids would still not have produced a better finish than where they have finished because he would have iced a much younger team supported by vets already on hand that would have been TDL trades for more picks and prospects replaced in the off season by journeymen NHL vets. You can argue all you want about this process but the players that would have been the current Canucks are right there in front of your faces playing for other NHL teams or on the cusp and the current pipeline of Vancouver prospects are also right in front of your eyes. Tryamkin wouldn't be back in the KHL either.

It really is quite impressive what could have been vs what so many wish to cling to as a great future just around the corner.

 

[racerjoe]

Forsling turning into everything Chicago hoped for. Dumped a guy they didn't see any future in for a young prospect playing well in Sweden. Now at 21 he is a top 4 D-man playing on the PP and getting @20 minutes of ice per night.

Seems like one GM has scouts he trusted to decide which of the 2 was the better risk. Got a top 4 and rising for nothing!

I watched him tonight and the MSNBC crew in the studio did nothing but sing his praises and he lived up to the off ice accolades on the ice.

Watched two guys Benning basically threw away who would look awfully good in Vancouver's lineup today. McCann is a better center than either Burmistrov or Granlund and Forsling ids the PP D-man everyone cries every game the "Nucks don't have.

Had Benning recognized the facts before him and that a rebuild and not a retool was right in front of his face, drafted the BPA every chance he had, kept his picks and thus drafted even more, let his young draftees come of age, and the current Canucks would be an amazingly promising young hockey club on the rise.

There is no way that Boeser and the pipeline coming wouldn't be eclipsed by the same group, + all he gave away in middling successful trades, + those he gave away in lost trades, + the BPAs he let slide through his fingers, the idiotic free agent signings, the extensions and NTCs he gave to guys he never should have extended in the first place,+ all he didn't draft because he ****ed away the picks. Those high level prospect kids would still not have produced a better finish than where they have finished because he would have iced a much younger team supported by vets already on hand that would have been TDL trades for more picks and prospects replaced in the off season by journeymen NHL vets. You can argue all you want about this process but the players that would have been the current Canucks are right there in front of your faces playing for other NHL teams or on the cusp and the current pipeline of Vancouver prospects are also right in front of your eyes. Tryamkin wouldn't be back in the KHL either.

It really is quite impressive what could have been vs what so many wish to cling to as a great future just around the corner.

If this was real social media I would have giving this a crying face for reminding me what could have been...

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Yeah, the Kesler trade is the biggest whiff there IMO. What makes it so bad is just the type of assets we tried to get.

The Forsling trade was bad, but at least you can make sense of it.

The McCann trade was also dreadful I really didn't get it. **** it may have been the worst... but the Kesler trade impacts us more.

the kesler trade is kind of a beautiful thing, actually.

okay so you lose the trade, that happens: star player on the physical decline demands a trade, that's not going to be easy to get full value on. if you can get three quarters for a dollar, that's not so bad.

okay, so maybe those quarters weren't really quarters.

the young center you got back is really 27 years old. well, he's still a good player with some productive years ahead of him.

you got the wrong draft pick. well, if you really squint jared mccann at 24 isn't thaaaaat far off from nick ritchie at 10. right? right? and he made a pretty good pick right?

okay, for the young defenseman, of which they had three blue chippers and two good prospects coming up, you got human garbage instead. such an embarrassment of riches that one of those good prospects was eventually given away so they could keep more of those riches than the expansion draft allowed. meanwhile, human garbage. oops.

but that's when benning gets creative.

"$10,800,000/3, take it or leave it."

"if i can't have anaheim's #10 pick where one of nylander, ehlers, or ritchie might still available, then darn it i don't want nylander, ehlers, or ritchie."

"oh you like my gustav forsling pick? i'm going to fold him into this morass of dog-eaten garbage by trading him away for more human garbage and then packaging that human garbage with bonino for, you guessed it: more human garbage. what are second rounders? take my second rounders."

"$21.875 million/5, take it or leave it."

"jared mccann? you want him for more human garbage? where do i sign away more second rounders to make this happen?"

a rich tapestry.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Obviously the trade didn't work, but a playoff contending team trading a draft pick or average prospect to help their current team is a defensible move in terms of process. Some of Benning's other moves when the team is (or should be) in a clear rebuild are worse.

"help their current team" is a guy who was in the minors, who had previously played all of 4 NHL games (52 minutes, 41 seconds) before the trade?

 

[racerjoe]

the kesler trade is kind of a beautiful thing, actually.

okay so you lose the trade, that happens: star player on the physical decline demands a trade, that's not going to be easy to get full value on. if you can get three quarters for a dollar, that's not so bad.

okay, so maybe those quarters weren't really quarters.

the young center you got back is really 27 years old. well, he's still a good player with some productive years ahead of him.

you got the wrong draft pick. well, if you really squint jared mccann at 24 isn't thaaaaat far off from nick ritchie at 10. right? right? and he made a pretty good pick right?

okay, for the young defenseman, of which they had three blue chippers and two good prospects coming up, you got human garbage instead. such an embarrassment of riches that one of those good prospects was eventually given away so they could keep more of those riches than the expansion draft allowed. meanwhile, human garbage. oops.

but that's when benning gets creative.

"$10,800,000/3, take it or leave it."

"if i can't have anaheim's #10 pick where one of nylander, ehlers, or ritchie might still available, then darn it i don't want nylander, ehlers, or ritchie."

"oh you like my gustav forsling pick? i'm going to fold him into this morass of dog-eaten garbage by trading him away for more human garbage and then packaging that human garbage with bonino for, you guessed it: more human garbage. what are second rounders? take my second rounders."

"$21.875 million/5, take it or leave it."

"jared mccann? you want him for more human garbage? where do i sign away more second rounders to make this happen?"

a rich tapestry.

This is why I think the Kesler trade is the bigger miss. It was the single most important trade for this franchise. We needed if not a win, some real great futures.

The fact it looks completely like we thought we were getting a young dman in Sbisa should tell everyone what JB's talent evaluation is like.

 

[Melvin]

This is why I think the Kesler trade is the bigger miss. It was the single most important trade for this franchise. We needed if not a win, some real great futures.

The fact it looks completely like we thought we were getting a young dman in Sbisa should tell everyone what JB's talent evaluation is like.

If we had just kept McCann, used Bonino for two years and then flipped him for picks when Horvat was ready to step in as 2c, let sbisa walk after his first execrable season, that would have been alright for us. Not a great or even a good trade, but acceptable under the circumstances.

It's because we traded Bonino and McCann and more picks for f***ing Sutter and Gudbranson that the trade stings but that's not the fault of the initial trade.

 

[racerjoe]

If we had just kept McCann, used Bonino for two years and then flipped him for picks when Horvat was ready to step in as 2c, let sbisa walk after his first execrable season, that would have been alright for us. Not a great or even a good trade, but acceptable under the circumstances.

It's because we traded Bonino and McCann and more picks for ****ing Sutter and Gudbranson that the trade stings but that's not the fault of the initial trade.

Just wrong targets IMHO. I agree the "value" wasn't too bad. Especially if we take out Sbisa. But we really should have been pushing harder on younger player and picks. We could have gotten three good future pieces in that trade, instead we were left with 1... that we traded away...

 

[Bleach Clean]

You know what’s better than 12 points in Finland? 16 points in 23+1 period games on arguably the best team on the planet.

McCann again. **** me Benning screwed this franchise over.

McCann? He didn't score against the Rangers...?

 

[m9]

"help their current team" is a guy who was in the minors, who had previously played all of 4 NHL games (52 minutes, 41 seconds) before the trade?

Well, that's what they were trying to do. Obviously it didn't work.

 

[Dissonance Jr]

This is why I think the Kesler trade is the bigger miss. It was the single most important trade for this franchise. We needed if not a win, some real great futures.

It's funny to think that back in 2014, Gillis wanted to trade Kesler for Sutter, Pouliot, and a 1st.

That would have ended up being an *awful* trade and one of the worst of Gillis' tenure. Bad Gillis!

Except.... what Benning ended up doing instead was essentially trade Kesler + Forsling + two 2nd round picks + a 4th round pick for Sutter, Pouliot, Gudbranson, and a 3rd (plus three seasons of Sbisa). Paying even more for less.

Okay, I take it back, that's not actually "funny."

 

[tantalum]

McCann? He didn't score against the Rangers...?

He scored the night before which was back to back games for him.

It was a general lament about the stupidity of moving players like McCann (and Forsling) and missing on the Juolevi pick.....

I understand how the post looked though...my mistake. Stream of consciousness took over as I looked at various game logs and player stats while the canucks were getting their asses handed to them.

 

[Bleach Clean]

He scored the night before which was back to back games for him.

It was a general lament about the stupidity of moving players like McCann (and Forsling) and missing on the Juolevi pick.....

I understand how the post looked though...my mistake. Stream of consciousness took over as I looked at various game logs and player stats while the canucks were getting their asses handed to them.

Ah, no worries.

Yeah, if Forsling establishes himself as a top4 this year, and McCann a 3C, it's not going to be a good look for Benning. What stupidity it was to trade young assets when the team was on the precipice of a rebuild. Even a retool should have had Benning target veterans, as Gillis was doing, to fill the ranks.

Just so much wrong with what's been done here. Benning simply must be fired.

 

[Melvin]

I can excuse the Kesler trade. Given that we still had a borderline playoff team, given that Kesler had an NTC, etc.

There is no excuse for trading McCann+33 for Gudbranson. Where we were at as a team, it was an unforgiveable mistake. An unforced error that should lead to the termination of Benning's services.

 

[groov2]

Came in to read about other teams in the league, but it seems I accidentally clicked on the Canucks Management thread.

Oh wait...

 

[Ryan Miller*]

McCann? He didn't score against the Rangers...?

Playing on a team with Jame McGinn is the best thing to happen to Jared McCann's career. Doubled production for the outrage crowd!

 

[tantalum]

I don't think you need to boost the stats of McCann by pretending he's McGinn to be outraged. He's doing well. 21 year old center getting a chance to play and producing. 9th in forward scoring on the Panthers despite missing 11 games. A 45 or so point pace right now...small sample of course. He'd either be on the canucks or serving Utica well if he was with the canucks still (and if they could actually develop him).


In other news, just to make some peoples head explode, Kass got his first of the year last night and it was a beauty.

 

[Melvin]

Please, nobody respond to Ryan Miller.

 

[MS]

Please, nobody respond to Ryan Miller.

Just added to my ignore list, which makes him the only person on my ignore list.

 

[Hit the post]

In other news, just to make some peoples head explode, Kass got his first of the year last night and it was a beauty.

He's got one more NHL goal this season than Prust....

 

[Ryan Miller*]

Yeah all the darlings all have their time in the sun before fading out into obsolescence. Santorelli (why didn't Bennning resign him!), Stanton (better than Sbisa!), Lack (top-5 worst Canuck trade), Garrison (not a buy-out!), Shinkaruk, Kassian, etc. Then when they stop producing, or fall out of the league, the outrage moves onto the next player.

 

[Hit the post]

Yeah all the darlings all have their time in the sun before fading out into obsolescence. Santorelli (why didn't Bennning resign him!), Stanton (better than Sbisa!), Lack (top-5 worst Canuck trade), Garrison (not a buy-out!), Shinkaruk, Kassian, etc. Then when they stop producing, or fall out of the league, the outrage moves onto the next player.

Laffs packaged him up with another player (not that great a player) to get a 1st round pick at a trade deadline. Who needs picks when Benning is a drafting guru?