2016 World Cup?

[An Argument For]

Russia would not participate in a World Cup because the KHL season starts the first week in September.

The World Cup could be renamed the Canada Coronation Tournament. That would be great for Canadian fans, but would the rest of the World really get up for that?

I thought the Olympics was the Canadian Coronation Tournament, my mistake.

Russia could still enter though, if you guys didn't actually show up no one would be able to tell the difference.

 

[getwiththeprogram*]

I thought the Olympics was the Canadian Coronation Tournament, my mistake.

Russia could still enter though, if you guys didn't actually show up no one would be able to tell the difference.

The Olympics certainly appears to be a coronation for Canadian hockey these days.

Nothing is guaranteed (Olympic hockey in the 21st century isn't fixed like it was when the bear prowled and ran the IIHF through backroom channels) but it's a solid bet that Canada will make it 4 out of 6 Olympiads in 2018.

At which point the Russians and Euros will insist that the Olympics don't count and shouldn't be considered when assessing a nation's hockey worth. I know you've heard this from me before, but it's only a legit competition when Canada doesn't win.

 

[Jussi]

Russia would not participate in a World Cup because the KHL season starts the first week in September.

The World Cup could be renamed the Canada Coronation Tournament. That would be great for Canadian fans, but would the rest of the World really get up for that?

The only way to get the European on board, two things need to happen:

- revenue must be shared between all participating federations
- games must be played on both continents with the deciding games alternatively in Europe and North America (first time in NA, next time in Europe)

I think we all know what the NHL's response to those will be...

 

[An Argument For]

The only way to get the European on board, two things need to happen:

- revenue must be shared between all participating federations
- games must be played on both continents with the deciding games alternatively in Europe and North America (first time in NA, next time in Europe)

I think we all know what the NHL's response to those will be...

Hopefully it will be something along the lines of, "suck an egg you f#@&ing freeloaders".

But that's just off the top of my head.

 

[Jussi]

Hopefully it will be something along the lines of, "suck an egg you f#@&ing freeloaders".

But that's just off the top of my head.

Good luck getting a tournament started then...

 

[An Argument For]

Good luck getting a tournament started then...

I didn't realize we were going to hash it out right now..

Maybe the NHL should just negotiate with NHLPA. That way when Russia comes up short again they can say, "but we didn't have the KHL players... this wasn't best on best" and then we can all laugh at the irony and hypocrisy of the statement.

 

[Xokkeu]

^ Fortunately these naive and hardheaded statements only reflect a small minority of hockey fans on this continent.

 

[Jussi]

^ Fortunately these naive and hardheaded statements only reflect a small minority of hockey fans on this continent.

What, Antarctica?

 

[Pominville Knows]

What, Antarctica?

It is Xokkeu and two russian guys sitting and playing Poker and arguing.

 

[ForumNamePending]

^ Fortunately these naive and hardheaded statements only reflect a small minority of hockey fans on this continent.

Ya some Canadians* are this weird paradox when it comes to hockey. They take great pride in Canada/Canadians doing well in something they like to think as being a large globally significant sport. At the same time they also have this provincial view of the sport and will dismiss, mock and/or be hostile towards any idea, opinion or action that might benifit or give credit to the sport outside of the entities within it they value.

*Not even sure if the poster you are referring to is Canadian, but the viewpoint they expressed isn't exactly unheard of up here.

 

[Yakushev72]

The only way to get the European on board, two things need to happen:

- revenue must be shared between all participating federations
- games must be played on both continents with the deciding games alternatively in Europe and North America (first time in NA, next time in Europe)

I think we all know what the NHL's response to those will be...

Agreed! My opinion (you may agree) is that if presented with a tournament sponsored by the NHL that is scheduled to be played in late August and/or early September, the Russian Hockey Federation (RHF) is most likely to resolve that conflict in favor of the KHL. Obviously, the KHL has numerous teams situated in the Russian domestic market, and presumably has a steep bias in favor of the KHL over the NHL.

I am assuming here that it would take Federation approval to enter a team in the Canada Cup. I am also assuming that the KHL would refuse to completely revise its schedules and delay the start of its season for a month to accommodate the financial interests of the NHL. And since there are a number of KHL players who would legitimately be members of any national team (e.g., Kovalchuk, Radulov, Medvedev, etc.), I am assuming that the RHF would not sanction a national team which excluded some of its best players because of league affiliation. I am really serious when I say that I don't think Russia would have an entry in the tournament unless it was scheduled in July, or possibly during September, much like the Olympics.

I also think that other European Federations would legitimately hold out for issues of fair competition, like being able to play Medal round games at home.

 

[Yakushev72]

Agreed! My opinion (you may agree) is that if presented with a tournament sponsored by the NHL that is scheduled to be played in late August and/or early September, the Russian Hockey Federation (RHF) is most likely to resolve that conflict in favor of the KHL. Obviously, the KHL has numerous teams situated in the Russian domestic market, and presumably has a steep bias in favor of the KHL over the NHL.

I am assuming here that it would take Federation approval to enter a team in the Canada Cup. I am also assuming that the KHL would refuse to completely revise its schedules and delay the start of its season for a month to accommodate the financial interests of the NHL. And since there are a number of KHL players who would legitimately be members of any national team (e.g., Kovalchuk, Radulov, Medvedev, etc.), I am assuming that the RHF would not sanction a national team which excluded some of its best players because of league affiliation. I am really serious when I say that I don't think Russia would have an entry in the tournament unless it was scheduled in July, or possibly during September, much like the Olympics.

I also think that other European Federations would legitimately hold out for issues of fair competition, like being able to play Medal round games at home.

Just to correct myself, I meant that a proposed scheduling time might be February - I inadvertently said September. If in February, both leagues would be required to suspend league operations for a couple of weeks, but it would conflict equally for both the KHL and NHL.

 

[An Argument For]

Just to correct myself, I meant that a proposed scheduling time might be February - I inadvertently said September. If in February, both leagues would be required to suspend league operations for a couple of weeks, but it would conflict equally for both the KHL and NHL.

The NHL needs to avoid breaking up it's scheduling so that won't happen.

Also, why is working around the KHL schedule so important? It's not like the World Championships are willing to work around the NHLs. If they don't mind playing hockey in August why not hold the World Championships then?

Also you don't need the Russian Federation's approval to have a Russian Team. Ovechkin and those guys don't work for the Russian Federation..

 

[Exarz]

The NHL needs to avoid breaking up it's scheduling so that won't happen.

Also, why is working around the KHL schedule so important? It's not like the World Championships are willing to work around the NHLs. If they don't mind playing hockey in August why not hold the World Championships then?

Also you don't need the Russian Federation's approval to have a Russian Team. Ovechkin and those guys don't work for the Russian Federation..

..but you will need players for it?

 

[Xokkeu]

The NHL needs to avoid breaking up it's scheduling so that won't happen.

Also, why is working around the KHL schedule so important? It's not like the World Championships are willing to work around the NHLs. If they don't mind playing hockey in August why not hold the World Championships then?

Also you don't need the Russian Federation's approval to have a Russian Team. Ovechkin and those guys don't work for the Russian Federation..

You sound like Bush trying to invade Iraq. If they don't want to come then who cares, we are doing it anyway. Thing is, if you're trying to organize an international hockey tournament you kind if need everybody to want to play in it. Otherwise it becomes a farce. If the World Cup organizing committee thinks like you they might as well disband and just play a best of 7 between the US and Canada.

 

[Jussi]

Agreed! My opinion (you may agree) is that if presented with a tournament sponsored by the NHL that is scheduled to be played in late August and/or early September, the Russian Hockey Federation (RHF) is most likely to resolve that conflict in favor of the KHL. Obviously, the KHL has numerous teams situated in the Russian domestic market, and presumably has a steep bias in favor of the KHL over the NHL.

I am assuming here that it would take Federation approval to enter a team in the Canada Cup. I am also assuming that the KHL would refuse to completely revise its schedules and delay the start of its season for a month to accommodate the financial interests of the NHL. And since there are a number of KHL players who would legitimately be members of any national team (e.g., Kovalchuk, Radulov, Medvedev, etc.), I am assuming that the RHF would not sanction a national team which excluded some of its best players because of league affiliation. I am really serious when I say that I don't think Russia would have an entry in the tournament unless it was scheduled in July, or possibly during September, much like the Olympics.

I also think that other European Federations would legitimately hold out for issues of fair competition, like being able to play Medal round games at home.

Just to clarify to everyone, I'm not fully against a World Cup as long as it's done right. It's just there's so many obstacles for that to happen.

Just to correct myself, I meant that a proposed scheduling time might be February - I inadvertently said September. If in February, both leagues would be required to suspend league operations for a couple of weeks, but it would conflict equally for both the KHL and NHL.

February is what the latest story written about the World Cup in NA press suggested as the time to stage it. As I've said before, it would make the owners very hypocritical regarding their previous complaints about the break hurting the league. It would also require a much longer break than the Olympics in order for the tournament to be done right according to the previously mentioned parameters.

The NHL needs to avoid breaking up it's scheduling so that won't happen.

Also, why is working around the KHL schedule so important? It's not like the World Championships are willing to work around the NHLs. If they don't mind playing hockey in August why not hold the World Championships then?

Also you don't need the Russian Federation's approval to have a Russian Team. Ovechkin and those guys don't work for the Russian Federation..

August is when KHL teams are in training camp/playing pre-season games. 2016 is also a bad year due to Rio Olympics. No one in Europe cares about hockey so quickly after those.

As I've explained in other threads, Russia and also Finland and Slovakia cannot ice a competitive roster with NHL-only players. They need KHL players, as they don't either have enough players in general (Slovakia, possibly Finland) or not enough for each position (Russia lack centers and defensemen) in two years time, possibly 2018 as well. All three countries would rather decline invitation than to to use minor league or junior players as that would not be worthy of such a tournament.

 

[EbencoyE]

Well, since it's an NHL tournament on NHL ice it doesn't make sense to include countries and players that aren't in the NHL.

So, a 4 team tournament of the U.S., Canada, Sweden, and a World All-Stars Team for all the other nationalities.

Everyone plays eachother once in a round robin which determines the seedings for the playoff round, all games in Canada because it's the only country that will care anyway.

Also, make Sweden and the World Team play in Europe and then fly to Canada for the rest of the tournament so they'll be jetlagged and increase the chances of a U.S./Canada final to maximize TV ratings for the two countries that actually matter

so, pretty much the same format they've always used. just cut out the unnecessary fat

 

[xxxx]

wrong thread

 

[Xokkeu]

Well, since it's an NHL tournament on NHL ice it doesn't make sense to include countries and players that aren't in the NHL.

So, a 4 team tournament of the U.S., Canada, Sweden, and a World All-Stars Team for all the other nationalities.

Everyone plays eachother once in a round robin which determines the seedings for the playoff round, all games in Canada because it's the only country that will care anyway.

Also, make Sweden and the World Team play in Europe and then fly to Canada for the rest of the tournament so they'll be jetlagged and increase the chances of a U.S./Canada final to maximize TV ratings for the two countries that actually matter

so, pretty much the same format they've always used. just cut out the unnecessary fat

World All Stars?

Well that'd basically confirm the European impression that the World Cup is an exhibition and worthless.

 

[Yakushev72]

Well, since it's an NHL tournament on NHL ice it doesn't make sense to include countries and players that aren't in the NHL.

So, a 4 team tournament of the U.S., Canada, Sweden, and a World All-Stars Team for all the other nationalities.

Everyone plays eachother once in a round robin which determines the seedings for the playoff round, all games in Canada because it's the only country that will care anyway.

Also, make Sweden and the World Team play in Europe and then fly to Canada for the rest of the tournament so they'll be jetlagged and increase the chances of a U.S./Canada final to maximize TV ratings for the two countries that actually matter

so, pretty much the same format they've always used. just cut out the unnecessary fat

I don't think that a World All-Stars concept would work. IMO, the best concept is probably a 7-game Canada vs. USA series. Or maybe 5 games. That would maximize coverage in NA, and would probably be interesting for the whole World to watch.

 

[Theokritos]

Well that'd basically confirm the European impression that the World Cup is an exhibition and worthless.

I don't think that a World All-Stars concept would work.

He was being sarcastic, parodying North American homerism ("who cares for the rest of the world?").

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

No World Cup. Stick to the Olympics.

 

[QnebO]

No World Cup. Stick to the Olympics.

Yup, this way it holds real value, and in small hockey countries, if they upset big countries, they hockey players have chance to come known and be heroes, because every nation follows Olympics. And doing memorable things in olympics is what helps the game of hockey to grow in those small countries. They need their stories. NHL needs those stories, so they will get more and more good players from raising countries like Swiss have shown. That way the overall level of league can grow. Some countries are already producing, but there is so many more countries who could also produce for NHL.

 

[1Gold Standard]

No World Cup. Stick to the Olympics.

Just curious, how many tournaments have you traveled to in Europe? I've been to 5 (junior and senior) It would be nice for a senior men's tournament to be played in the home of hockey once and while other than waiting 30 years for the next Olympics to come our way. but I digress.

The correct answer to the question is both... but if the World Cup doesn't happen, then I hope to get my wish and a 7 game series with the U.S. comes about. 7 games with them would be a better option anway.

 

[EbencoyE]

He was being sarcastic, parodying North American homerism ("who cares for the rest of the world?").

Sadly, I'm not surprised anyone took my post seriously. Just the idea that the NHL should control a major international competition should be enough to put any sane and logical person off the idea. But there are few of those on this side of the Atlantic when it comes to international hockey. Too much entitlement.

I'd rather watch Division 3 of the world championships than another one of these joke pre-season exhibitions. But then again, I'm actually a fan of international hockey and not NHL all-star events so I'm aware there is some interest in this, quite unfortunately, from the "NHL is the only thing worth watching" types.

That said, I wouldn't mind a Canada/US best-of-7 or 5 or whatever every now and then. Those are the two countries the NHL operates in so that would at least make some sense. No reason to drag any other countries into the North America Cup.