OT: 2016 Red Sox/MLB Regular Season V - "And down the stretch they come!"

[CDJ]

www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/1753673...vid-ortiz-having-greatest-farewell-season-all

Is Big Papi having the best final season in baseball (or even sports) history?

Interesting read, whatever you think of his conclusion. Playing DH and limited first base all his career probably helps, though. Impressive nonetheless.

Have to laugh at him inviting people to add Peyton Manning to the list of candidates, too. Not even Colts fans turned Broncos fans could consider that one of the best final seasons ever, right?

By their logic Curt Leskanic is in the conversation for best final season ever

They really need to keep it to individual performance otherwise it opens up a giant can of worms. Ortiz blows the competition out of the water in that regard. Leading the league in OPS as a 40+ guy is unprecedented

 

[BostonBob]

Looks like former Red Sox GM Ben Cherington is headed to Toronto.


http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/ml...ng-former-red-sox-gm-ben-cherington/?shawct=1



from sportsnet.ca:


The Toronto Blue Jays are on the verge of hiring Ben Cherington as a vice-president of baseball operations, multiple industry sources told Sportsnet.

Other teams also held talks with the former Boston Red Sox general manager, according to sources, indicating that he’ll work with many facets of the front office’s baseball side, with an emphasis on player development.

Cherington led the Red Sox to a World Series championship in 2013, but left the organization last year after Dave Dombrowski was hired as the president of baseball operations. He then spent the spring semester teaching at Columbia University.

Dombrowski has credited Cherington’s work in helping to acquire and groom a talented young core that includes Mookie Betts, Xander Bogaerts, Jackie Bradley Jr. and Andrew Benintendi. But his moves before the 2015 season — signing free agents Hanley Ramirez and Pablo Sandoval — blew up in a failed campaign.

Cherington began his career as a baseball executive in 1998 with the Cleveland Indians as an advance scout, working under Blue Jays president Mark Shapiro’s umbrella. A year later he joined the Red Sox as an amateur scout before working his way up the front office.

 

[EverettMike]

Ben Cherington is a great GM. He set this organization up for a decade and in the middle of doing so won a World Series.

Really wish he had joined an NL team, let alone an AL East team.

 

[Fenway]

2017 Red Sox schedule

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[CDJ]

Ben Cherington is a great GM. He set this organization up for a decade and in the middle of doing so won a World Series.

Really wish he had joined an NL team, let alone an AL East team.

Yup, basically my thoughts.

Tbh I've never attributed Sandoval to him and after that what bad has he done? Did he make the deal for Bailey? That might be it. Hanley and Rick didn't see immediate returns but they've proven to be important pieces.

Pretty sure I said it last year when DD was hired but he's going to win with Cheringtons team

 

[BostonBob]

It's now official.

http://www.tsn.ca/jays-add-cherington-to-front-office-1.566861


from tsn.ca:

Ben Cherington was hired as the Toronto Blue Jays new vice-president of baseball operations on Wednesday.

Cherington spent most of his career with the Boston Red Sox organization.

He and Jed Hoyer were Boston's co-general managers for 2005 and 2006. In 2006 he was made sole GM of the team, and resigned the post in August of 2015.

After leaving the Red Sox, Cherington joined Columbia's Sports Management faculty where he taught a course in sports leadership for the 2015-16 academic year.

Cherington was named Major League Baseball Executive of the Year for 2013 by The Sporting News.

He was only the third Red Sox executive to win the award since its origination in 1936, following longtime owner Tom Yawkey (1946) and late general manager Dick O'Connell (1967; 1975).

 

[Johnnyduke]

Cherington was not a great gm. He had some "great" qualities, like hanging on to the core young players we are seeing now. To me he is perfect in the role with toronto, working underneath someone else.

 

[Johnnyduke]

Yup, basically my thoughts.

Tbh I've never attributed Sandoval to him and after that what bad has he done? Did he make the deal for Bailey? That might be it. Hanley and Rick didn't see immediate returns but they've proven to be important pieces.

Pretty sure I said it last year when DD was hired but he's going to win with Cheringtons team

Wait a minute, you can't cherry pick and give him credit for hanley this year while completely absolving him of blame for Sandoval. I know you guys love cherington but he has warts.

 

[CDJ]

Wait a minute, you can't cherry pick and give him credit for hanley this year while completely absolving him of blame for Sandoval. I know you guys love cherington but he has warts.

I can absolutely cherry pick Sandoval as I believe that was 100% ownership driven due to his perceived marketability. It was a move that defied logic, and Cherington is an incredibly analytical guy who had a demonstrably clear plan

People loved ******** on him for the Porcello deal. That criticism looks dumb now. People **** on him for the Hanley deal and now that deal looks fine.

 

[Mr Cartmenez]

Happy for BC that he got the job. But it makes me wonder why he quit on us in the first place? Wasn't he offered basically the same job he now accepted in Toronto. In Boston he would have reported directly to DDo and in Toronto it's going to be Shapiro?!

I didn't think Ben was great in Boston as a GM, but he wasn't that bad people made him out to be at the end. He could have taken the easy road and reaped the stocked farm system...but he didn't. I will always thank him for that. It takes guts and conviction to stay the course. And to be honest, the current Sox team looks mostly like he must have envisioned it.

C: Vaz (home grown) / Leon (traded for him last year when CV got down) / Swihart (home grown)
1B: Hanley (technically home grown and got him on a favorable team-deal)
2B: Pedey (home grown)
3B: Shaw (home grown) / Moncada (home grown)
SS: X (home grown)
LF: Benintendi (home grown) / Holt (traded for him)
CF: JBJ (home grown)
RF: Betts (home grown)

Ace: Price (could have made such a deal as well, probably for Scherzer one year prior to Price)
#2: Porcello
#3: Wright (traded for him when he was new to trowing the knuckleball)
#4: Pomeranz (he NEVER would have pulled the trigger on that one. Pomeranz is good, but jury is out on this one)
#5: Rodriguez (traded for him)
CP: Kimbrel (he NEVER would have done that, no way)

He made some blunders. Duquette saved him from having "F" deadline 2 years ago. He redeemed himself a bit by getting Porcello which obviously worked out well. Some pitchers just take a few months to get used to playing in Boston.
The Lackey-trade was obviously as bad as it gets. The Cards must have laughed out loud when he was stubborn to get Craig when he was finished. Kelly was obviously a huge gamble, but I tend to not want arms the Cards are willing to give up. They should have at least gotten Piscotty in that deal (like I expected back then)

Plus his several brutal deals for closers (Hanrahan, Bailey), but none of those moves were as rich as the one for Kimbrel, that's why I don't think he would have pulled the trigger with the Padres)
Do we even have to mention Sandoval? No?! But someone has yet to convince me that he was the brain behind that signing. Sandoval was more of a ratings-thing to me coming from the owners/Larry. But at the same time I won't give him credit for the Punto-trade, this was solely an owners/LL thing.

Enough about Cherington. We got an important game tonight. The Jays already lost (back-to-back) which is a nice gift, but we need to capitalize. If we win tonight, we will have some cushion between us and the rest of the east. I doubt we will get overtaken by so many teams that we won't even make the WC-game, but I want the Division at this point.
Porcello can propel himself into the CY-lead with a tremendous game (and win) tonight.

 

[CDJ]

Hanrahan deal wasn't that bad IMO. Got rid of a guy who got bombed here and who many in the baseball community thought had questionable makeup for a big role in a big market. They got Brock Holt back.

Melancon figured **** out in Pittsburgh, not sure it would have ever happened here

It didn't go like they envisioned but I don't think it was bad

 

[Fenway]

I don't know if I want to or

 

[Johnnyduke]

I can absolutely cherry pick Sandoval as I believe that was 100% ownership driven due to his perceived marketability. It was a move that defied logic, and Cherington is an incredibly analytical guy who had a demonstrably clear plan

People loved ******** on him for the Porcello deal. That criticism looks dumb now. People **** on him for the Hanley deal and now that deal looks fine.

This is ********. Either cherington is responsible for both big ticket free agents (sandoval and ramirez) or neither. Not just the one who recently has played well.

 

[Johnnyduke]

Regardless, i think the jays hired him to do what he is good at, identifying and keeping the right young players.

 

[Johnnyduke]

I should add that cherington signed ramirez to play left field...a colossal disaster. But i am sure that was ownership's idea.

 

[CDJ]

This is ********. Either cherington is responsible for both big ticket free agents (sandoval and ramirez) or neither. Not just the one who recently has played well.

Not if ownership made Sandoval come in, which they probably did (I'd be willing to bet my enormous house and luxurious cars on it )

Hanley coming in on his deal alone made a ton of sense to bridge the gap to Moncada then replace Ortiz as DH. Hanley and Sandoval never did. Ben is patient and methodical, the Sandoval signing went completely against that and LOOK AT THAT PABLO ALSO HAD A TON OF MARKETABILITY....hmmmm I wonder who would be interested in that


Was his tenure here perfect? Absolutely not, far from it. But it has always been my belief that he is a better GM than what the majority of the league has. And it's also a fact he won a WS here in his limited term as GM, with a lot of key guys both on the field and in the clubhouse coming through free agency (Napoli/Gomes/Victorino/Dempster). And it's also a fact he left this team poised as a juggernaut going forward.

 

[CDJ]

I should add that cherington signed ramirez to play left field...a colossal disaster. But i am sure that was ownership's idea.

Only reason he was in left is because the fatass ownership wanted literally couldn't play another position due to his lack of athleticism (insert tea lizard here)


Also lack of athleticism is supposed to read as "morbid obesity", just want to clarify

 

[Johnnyduke]

It's just convenient to have that outlook. It's possible but ultimately we just don't know if it's the case so I am looking at everything under his watch as his move. Good and bad. I didn't think a team would be wise to hire him as the head man again, but I do think Toronto is smart to bring him on board. Let him work as the #2 guy and eventually he'll probably get another chance. I would think he could thrive with a small market club.

 

[DKH]

Ben Cherington is a great GM. He set this organization up for a decade and in the middle of doing so won a World Series.

Really wish he had joined an NL team, let alone an AL East team.

BC gave $160+ M for Pablo Sandoval & Rusney Castillo and he's a great GM.

Don Sweeney traded Dougie Hamilton for 3 prospects who all will probably be better than him and he's a bum

BWAHAHAHAH

 

[Johnnyduke]

Great defense there guys

 

[CDJ]

I can see how it can be interpreted as convenient, but I've been plenty critical of him in the past. Now granted I was wrong on a lot of it (liked Porcello extension initially then soured on it, didn't like the Victorino signing, Bailey trade sucked, some other moves here and there that irked me like losing out on Abreu by a couple mill then blowing a ton of Rusney)

I genuinely believe ownership is responsible for Sandoval and I've maintained that for awhile now. I also think as far as "big picture" guys go BC is one of the best in the game. Like you said he could thrive in a small market if he wasn't forced by outside pressure to make big splashes. I think he did well here regardless.


And good to get through the top of the 1st, now bury them

 

[DKH]

I am very happy for Cherrington - good guy very smart and as long as he doesn't have an owner like John Henry or President like Larry Lucchino looking over shoulder and meddling he should do very well

I'm sure he's smarter today than 3 years ago

Wonder who he raids from Boston

 

[CDJ]

I am very happy for Cherrington - good guy very smart and as long as he doesn't have an owner like John Henry or President like Larry Lucchino looking over shoulder and meddling he should do very well

I'm sure he's smarter today than 3 years ago

Wonder who he raids from Boston

Joe Kelly, who will then somehow turn into a #2 or elite closer

 

[DKH]

I can see how it can be interpreted as convenient, but I've been plenty critical of him in the past. Now granted I was wrong on a lot of it (liked Porcello extension initially then soured on it, didn't like the Victorino signing, Bailey trade sucked, some other moves here and there that irked me like losing out on Abreu by a couple mill then blowing a ton of Rusney)

I genuinely believe ownership is responsible for Sandoval and I've maintained that for awhile now. I also think as far as "big picture" guys go BC is one of the best in the game. Like you said he could thrive in a small market if he wasn't forced by outside pressure to make big splashes. I think he did well here regardless.


And good to get through the top of the 1st, now bury them

Sandoval reeks Tom Werner.

Krug coming on in an inning to talk to Eck & OBrien

 

[DKH]

Joe Kelly, who will then somehow turn into a #2 or elite closer

I was thinking more in scouting & development but I can see Kelly being useful somewhere

Wow the wind took that Ortiz should have been on second