2016 NHL Entry Draft Discussion

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Daximus

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I'm saying an offensive d-men can improve a team more than a defensive d-man and vice versa.

I'm also saying that the d-man that helps your team win more is better to have despite style.

I should also note that higher scoring defensemen in junior/NCAA tend to be better on average than lower scoring defensemen. I always like to point out that more defensive d-men like Mitchell, Foote, Vlassic, and Hamhuis were all decent scorers in their time. Although this is a slightly separate subject.

I think we have to take into account the fact that Juolevi plays on an offensive powerhouse in London. Whereas the spitfires are good but aren't producing as much offence. I think the biggest difference between the two is that scouts love Sergachevs skating ability and how good he is on the PK. You don't hear as much about that from Juolevi.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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So Trouba could be more impactful than Toby while not defending quite as well?

Let see.....Toby has had to carry Bogosian and Myers over last season and this season. Jacob has had a much more challenging task of carrying Stu for two season in the top 4.....Wait I have an idea, why don't we just put Jacob and Toby together and play them 25 minutes a night for a while and nobody has to carry anyone? We have a pure top pair and Bob's your uncle.

Keith's "style" is not that different from guys like Karlsson, Buff, and Myers. Keith is just arguably the best overall skater in the league and is elite at moving the puck out of the zone. Last year's playoffs was an absolute domination by Keith and those two factors were the biggest reason. It really is THAT simple. There are of course other small things, but his ability to skate and move the puck out of the zone successfully are the biggest reason why he's a top 5 defenseman.



Gee PS. What a great idea! Why didn't I ever think of that?!?! :amazed: :sarcasm:

We can only dream man.. :(

Then we would also have a pairing of Myers and Stuart playing, lets say 16 min/gm. Which is better having some strength and some weakness on each pair or having one really strong pair and one weak on both sides? Is there an accepted wisdom on the question? I can see pros and cons. I lean toward the strong pair/weak pair because of TOI and matching opponents but what is the consensus opinion?
 

garret9

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Then we would also have a pairing of Myers and Stuart playing, lets say 16 min/gm. Which is better having some strength and some weakness on each pair or having one really strong pair and one weak on both sides? Is there an accepted wisdom on the question? I can see pros and cons. I lean toward the strong pair/weak pair because of TOI and matching opponents but what is the consensus opinion?

Unless we give Byfuglien-Myers a tonne of mins.
 

Grind

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I think we have to take into account the fact that Juolevi plays on an offensive powerhouse in London. Whereas the spitfires are good but aren't producing as much offence. I think the biggest difference between the two is that scouts love Sergachevs skating ability and how good he is on the PK. You don't hear as much about that from Juolevi.

there's a lot of things that should be taken into account for, but at the end of the day you need to strike the right balance.

I think scouts have historically (particularly with highly rated defensmen) often take so much into account, and weight these additional factors so heavily that they let it run roughshod over what the basic numbers tell them and they end up draftign dmen that never amount to anything.


At a simple level, i tend to think of it as this:
There is enough low quality players in junior leagues, that a player of exceptional talent in any form (someone worth a 1st round pick) will have the tools to score regardless of the situation around him.

If you have a prospect who is super smooth skating, makes excellent passes, and can rush up the ice on a whim, he's going to score no matter how the deck is stacked against him because 50% of the time he's going to be on the ice against players that can't even hold their stick right (comparatively...obviously not accurate of junior)

the only way i see this not being true is being severely burried bull-headed coaching decisions or just being on an extrodinarily stacked team.

Essentially, if you see/watch a guy that Looks to just have amazing physical talents in junior, but somehow never seems to hit the scorecard, sleep on it. Don't assume it's luck. Watch him as critically as you possibly can, because the minor league are littered with "great defensive dmen" and "future shut down defenders" that couldn't score a lick in junior, were drafted high, and never panned out.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Unless we give Byfuglien-Myers a tonne of mins.

OK, that is slightly different. It is also what Maurice said he would do but so far has only done in spots so the TOI doesn't work out right.

That would give us Stuart-Postma(or xxx) for x min.
Pair 1 24
Pair 2 22
Pair 3 14
Or we could go 24 + 24 + 12. Pairs 1a, 1b and pair 3(F). :laugh:

Ignoring that for the moment what is the answer to my original question? If we are just shuffling 2 pairs which is the better way to go? That leaves out any question of moving anybody to his off side.
 

Daximus

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OK, that is slightly different. It is also what Maurice said he would do but so far has only done in spots so the TOI doesn't work out right.

That would give us Stuart-Postma(or xxx) for x min.
Pair 1 24
Pair 2 22
Pair 3 14
Or we could go 24 + 24 + 12. Pairs 1a, 1b and pair 3(F). :laugh:

Ignoring that for the moment what is the answer to my original question? If we are just shuffling 2 pairs which is the better way to go? That leaves out any question of moving anybody to his off side.

Chicago proved last playoffs that relying heavily on a two pair rotation with a 3rd relief pair to a Cup can be done. Even when damn near eveyone was saying it couldn't last. I remember people saying it from the first round all the way to the final game against Tampa.
 

Daximus

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Heads up:
Knights (Matt Tkachuk, Max Jones, Olli Juolevi) vs Spitfires (Logan Brown, Luke Kirwan, Mikhail Sergachev) on Sportsnet East Friday @ 6:30pm Central for anyone that wants to have a closer look at those guys.
No Jets game Friday so something to watch.
 

Huffer

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Heads up:
Knights (Matt Tkachuk, Max Jones, Olli Juolevi) vs Spitfires (Logan Brown, Luke Kirwan, Mikhail Sergachev) on Sportsnet East Friday @ 6:30pm Central for anyone that wants to have a closer look at those guys.
No Jets game Friday so something to watch.

So they'll be a few scouts there that night I'm guessing. ;)

I'd love to watch but won't be able to. If you're (or anyone) is able to watch and can comment it would be appreciated!
 

Daximus

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So they'll be a few scouts there that night I'm guessing. ;)

I'd love to watch but won't be able to. If you're (or anyone) is able to watch and can comment it would be appreciated!

I definitely plan on watching and taking some notes. I'll post them here after the game is done.
 

Daximus

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This is definitely the Mitch Marner show. Marner did this, Marner did that oooohh look at Marner.

Anyways so far I haven't noticed Juolevi much but that is more so because London's top line seems to take the puck up ice and in themselves. Sergachev has been so-so down low but his first passes are always good. His speed seems off from what I've read. Though this London team is quick on the puck all over the ice. Their passing in the ozone can be dizzying.
Stanley really stands out though. Good stick work, good tape to tape passes, good hands taking the puck into the ozone, jumps into the play at the right time, great passing coming out of the dzone. Uses his body well. Stood up a Knight on the blueline early. He seems like a left handed Buff+Myers mix. Not as good as either of them right now obviously but the potential is in there. He could be a real good pick in the later 1st round. He would fit the Jets system like a glove.
Tkachuk comes exactly as advertised, chip off the old block. See a lot of his old mans game in him
 

Daximus

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Brown also looks good but without much help he seems to be in over his head a bit. London is just so good, they play a tight defensive game. Brown looks like he has a tonne of potential though. Would not be a bad pick at all IMO. Brown has great hands, good skater, solid shot. He looks like a slower Blake Wheeler out there but he just has no help. Has to do everything himself.
 

Jetabre

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sergachyov/juolevi in the first
felixson in the 3rd

felixson is stuck behind zboril and chabot

We'll have to trade for a 3rd then (I feel like I bring this up way too much). But yeah we traded our 3rd round pick this year in the Tlusty rental trade.
 

Jetabre

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From a different thread:

December consensus rankings for 2016 NHL Draft (ISS, Hockey Prospect, McKeen's, Future Considerations, Draft Buzz, Damien Cox):

http://www.deadlywaters.net/home/december-consensus-rankings-for-2016-nhl-draft


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+/- is from their last months consensus rankings.
 

veganhunter

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Anyone else find Julien Gauthier interesting if we fell a bit in the draft? He reminds me a bit of Jamie Benn with his power, slick hands, and shot.
 
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