2016 LA Kings Offseason GDT V: Free Agent Frenzy

[USE Fi]

I think Reaper45 said it best, it`s time to move on from Clifford and ask question would you sign him on 4years deal worth 1,6mil AAV now. I get 2mil for Lewis he is PK player and actually plays 14min per game not like Clifford did last year 9:20 per game for 1.6mill it`s too much.

 

[YP44]

You Folks were not promised or preached about any new 5 year plan..
Someone is making that up, out of a bunch of lawyer speak from Lombardi's mouth.

Lombardi never ever said "We are going into another 5 year rebuild/retool/whatever".

You guys are reading into his words, what you wanted to see.

Be honest with yourself, what exactly changed from last season roster wise ? (Lucic which was expected,Brown being demoted).

With the cap the way it is, and Kopitar/Doughty/Quick still producing, Lombardi is not going to make any (drastic) roster moves, or give away roster players for (low end) picks.

You guys have watched and witnessed Lombardi operate for almost a Decade now. You are all smarter than this.

I wasn't talking about a major rebuild, a retool or whatever. I just thought going into the draft it made sense from an asset management POV and from what Lombardi was saying to deal depth for a later pick or two. At no point did I say I was promised anything. I just thought it made sense for it to happen, and that I was surprised nothing did.

I don't get why some want a major tear down, or even joke about tanking. This is still a great club that finished tops in the league in a lot of advanced stats. That said minor tweaks to help promote youth or at least help re-motivate some made/make sense.

 

[damacles1156]

If someone from the AHL has a (GREAT) camp; plays the first 25 games or so at a high level, I could see Lombardi trading away someone like King/Clifford/Nolan ETC.

But until that actually happens, those guys are most likely staying Kings.

 

[Trolfoli]

I wasn't talking about a major rebuild, a retool or whatever. I just thought going into the draft it made sense from an asset management POV and from what Lombardi was saying to deal depth for a later pick or two. At no point did I say I was promised anything. I just thought it made sense for it to happen, and that I was surprised nothing did.

I don't get why some want a major tear down, or even joke about tanking. This is still a great club that finished tops in the league in a lot of advanced stats. That said minor tweaks to help promote youth or at least help re-motivate some made/make sense.

Team has holes. It won't get back on top until those holes are filled. Those holes need to be filled before everything falls apart. There's about 5 years max before Carter/Quick join Brown/Stoll/Williams. Bottoming out next year when the team clearly isn't competing for a cup goes a long way to filling one of those holes.

As far as what's changed since last year:

EFFECTIVE top 6 winger. Lucic was effective with any line combo he was put with. He will be replaced by Brown/Purcell this year. We'll see how that goes.

Lecavalier is replaced by Shore/Dowd/Lewis. Don't know how many notice, but when there are 3 lines capable of producing the team plays a lot better. It puts a lot of pressure defensively on the opponents and doesn't allow crap teams to shelter guys on the 3rd pair. The 3rd line is looking like some combo of Brown, Purcell, King, Lewis, Dowd, Shore, or whoever else is in Sutter's doghouse at the time.

2 players have moved off the offense. 3rd line looks like it will struggle to put up points and can Brown/Purcell be as effective as Lucic in the top 6. It's not a big change, but it doesn't take a lot to get the team out of high gear. Only having 1 or 2 lines that can put the puck in the net with the Kings style of play is going to put a lot of pressure on the Kings defense. Which has names like Greene, Scuderi, Gilbert, Forbort on it for next year.

Clifford: There's no real reason to move him now. As the Kings aren't going for a cup this year and don't need to max out the salary cap, who cares about him making 1.6M.

The Kings weren't good enough last year, got worse, and other teams in the division improved.

 

[dman3474]

I'm honestly not sold on Shore or Dowd being able to come in and fill the 3C spot. Lewis might just be the guy we'll have to have there in the mean time, until someone like Amadio or Dergachyov is ready. The team did play fairly well with Lewis and Shore trading off 3C duties before the Lecavalier trade. AA could also be a dark horse if he continues to improve, he had a great end to the season last year.

What does Lewis do that he does so much better than Shore? Can't be the points he puts up, cant be his faceoffs, he is better defensively but that is it. Hell even AA is better at faceoffs than lewis

 

[USE Fi]

If someone from the AHL has a (GREAT) camp; plays the first 25 games or so at a high level, I could see Lombardi trading away someone like King/Clifford/Nolan ETC.

But until that actually happens, those guys are most likely staying Kings.

Just hope there is space to play those FIRST 25 games.

Pearson-Kopitar-Toffoli,
Gaborik-Carter-Purcell
King-Lewis-Brown
Clifford-Andreoff-Nolan

13th Latta
(Shore,Dowd, Mersch <-AHL)

 

[YP44]

If someone from the AHL has a (GREAT) camp; plays the first 25 games or so at a high level, I could see Lombardi trading away someone like King/Clifford/Nolan ETC.

But until that actually happens, those guys are most likely staying Kings.

so who goes on waivers from the forward group to keep 14 forwards with the big cliub?

 

[YP44]

Team has holes. It won't get back on top until those holes are filled. Those holes need to be filled before everything falls apart. There's about 5 years max before Carter/Quick join Brown/Stoll/Williams. Bottoming out next year when the team clearly isn't competing for a cup goes a long way to filling one of those holes.

As far as what's changed since last year:

EFFECTIVE top 6 winger. Lucic was effective with any line combo he was put with. He will be replaced by Brown/Purcell this year. We'll see how that goes.

Lecavalier is replaced by Shore/Dowd/Lewis. Don't know how many notice, but when there are 3 lines capable of producing the team plays a lot better. It puts a lot of pressure defensively on the opponents and doesn't allow crap teams to shelter guys on the 3rd pair. The 3rd line is looking like some combo of Brown, Purcell, King, Lewis, Dowd, Shore, or whoever else is in Sutter's doghouse at the time.

2 players have moved off the offense. 3rd line looks like it will struggle to put up points and can Brown/Purcell be as effective as Lucic in the top 6. It's not a big change, but it doesn't take a lot to get the team out of high gear. Only having 1 or 2 lines that can put the puck in the net with the Kings style of play is going to put a lot of pressure on the Kings defense. Which has names like Greene, Scuderi, Gilbert, Forbort on it for next year.

Clifford: There's no real reason to move him now. As the Kings aren't going for a cup this year and don't need to max out the salary cap, who cares about him making 1.6M.

The Kings weren't good enough last year, got worse, and other teams in the division improved.

I would argue the kings were good enough but ran into a hot team at the wrong time while losing a key piece to injury. Most of the kings advance stats point to the team being good enough.

In 2012 and 2014 LA was fortunate not to have any key injuries and was able to get some games stolen by Quick. That did not happen this off season...cannot expect it to happen every 2 years

 

[YP44]

Just hope there is space to play those FIRST 25 games.

Pearson-Kopitar-Toffoli,
Gaborik-Carter-Purcell
King-Lewis-Brown
Clifford-Andreoff-Nolan

13th Latta
(Shore,Dowd, Mersch <-AHL)

I believe shore and dowd require waivers.

 

[USE Fi]

I believe shore and dowd require waivers.

I know that is why i put them there.

 

[damacles1156]

The Kings are not going to care if they lose AHL guys that can't beat out a veteran, to waivers.

Shore/Dowd, have to have good camps, if they don't, and get waived, honestly what did the Kings lose ?

Shore I think makes the team (should have a good camp)

Someone like Nolan may get waived, I think Latta/Dowd get waived as well.

Gravel will be sent down most likely (he is waiver exempt) forbort will probably make the team.

Someone has to have a STELLAR camp(this is what you want).

Or Dowd/Shore both make the team, and Lombardi decides, someone like Nolan/Andy/Clifford needs to be moved.

First things first though, someone has to force Lombardi to actually think about moving a roster player. So far no one in the AHL has done that.

 

[YP44]

The Kings are not going to care if they lose AHL guys that can't beat out a veteran, to waivers.

Shore/Dowd, have to have good camps, if they don't, and get waived, honestly what did the Kings lose ?

Shore I think makes the team (should have a good camp)

Someone like Nolan may get waived, I think Latta/Dowd get waived as well.

Gravel will be sent down most likely (he is waiver exempt) forbort will probably make the team.

Someone has to have a STELLAR camp(this is what you want).

Or Dowd/Shore both make the team, and Lombardi decides, someone like Nolan/Andy/Clifford needs to be moved.

First things first though, someone has to force Lombardi to actually think about moving a roster player. So far no one in the AHL has done that.

kings lose moving them for a pick.
I agree we all should want players to step up and have stellar camps but as you indicate with Gravel likely being sent down do to him not having to clear, that may not be enough.
For me it's not as much about the AHL guys making waives and forcing Lombardi's hand but perhaps trying something new in the bottom six and getting a new voice in the room. Not saying Nolan/Clifford/King are bad voices at all just sometimes a fresh voice and set of eyes is good. I don't think there is a big drop off (if any) from Nolan and Clifford to some of the AHL players who require waivers.

 

[USE Fi]

Kopitar, Toffoli, Carter, Pearson,Gaborik, Purcell, Brown, Lewis, King, Clifford are lock. Thats 10 players.

Gaborik-Kopitar-Purcell
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
King-xxxxx-Brown
Clifford-xxxxx-Lewis

That leaves Nolan RW, Andreoff LW/C, Latta C/RW, Shore C, Dowd C and Mersch LW.
For the rest 3-4 player spot.

-Shore has good chance to get that 3C or 4C spot because Lewis cant win faceoffs and Andreoff is better at left wing.
-Latta will make team from the start, lot`s of energy and a new player and cheap.
-Dowd. There are lot`s of writing that he will make it saying he is ready.
-Andreoff can play LW and C position and was pretty good at end of the last season.
-Nolan i don`t think what he brings to this team anymore.
-Mersch can go to AHL and if someone from top 9 winger injures he gets his minutes.

I would trade some than just lose them to waiver.

I`m asking would you give Clifford 1.6mil for 4years. He can only play on left side and some one like Andreoff can do same 9min per game for over 1mil less cap and still play center if needed.

Would you give Nolan just to be waived he can play only RW and like Latta can do same with 300k less and still play center position.

Next year we have to pay 5-5,5mil more to Toffoli and Pearson.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Someone is going somewhere...

The bottom 6 is made up of.....

King, Brown, Lewis, Clifford, Nolan, Shore, Dowd, Andreoff and Latta all on one way deals.

That is a total of 9 players fighting for 6 spots and 2 healthy scratches...so for sure one of those guys is in the AHL/waivers.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Team has holes. It won't get back on top until those holes are filled. Those holes need to be filled before everything falls apart. There's about 5 years max before Carter/Quick join Brown/Stoll/Williams. Bottoming out next year when the team clearly isn't competing for a cup goes a long way to filling one of those holes.

What is your definition of bottoming out? Do you think a team with 11/8/32 is going to bottom out, depending on what your definition of it is?

The Kings weren't good enough last year, got worse, and other teams in the division improved.

Purcell had 2 more goals in the playoffs than Lucic did. One was driving the net, another on the PP.

Worse and better can really only be used once the games start. The Kings have a few questions that need to be answered, but the answers also could be good.

 

[YP44]

What is your definition of bottoming out? Do you think a team with 11/8/32 is going to bottom out, depending on what your definition of it is?



Purcell had 2 more goals in the playoffs than Lucic did. One was driving the net, another on the PP.

Worse and better can really only be used once the games start. The Kings have a few questions that need to be answered, but the answers also could be good.

just to add to your playoff point. This playoffs Quick was not clutch, and Doughty was not doughty like. I like the chances of both not repeating their poor showings in the playoffs.

How often does a team have the reigning winners of all defensive awards (Selke, Vezna and Norris)....why the hell would we want this team to suck this year (not directed at you)

 

[YP44]

Someone is going somewhere...

The bottom 6 is made up of.....

King, Brown, Lewis, Clifford, Nolan, Shore, Dowd, Andreoff and Latta all on one way deals.

That is a total of 9 players fighting for 6 spots and 2 healthy scratches...so for sure one of those guys is in the AHL/waivers.

which is why I was hoping one player would be traded. Plus I want Mersch to have a shot

 

[USE Fi]

Well Jon Rosen said is better to start thinking about lineup at training camp. But i am bored no games to watch.

 

[mrkolice]

Team has holes. It won't get back on top until those holes are filled. Those holes need to be filled before everything falls apart. There's about 5 years max before Carter/Quick join Brown/Stoll/Williams. Bottoming out next year when the team clearly isn't competing for a cup goes a long way to filling one of those holes.

huh, that's pessimistic. what we have here is not a 2017 playoff roster. last year some holes were filled during midseason in a very creative, fluid manner, and i guess we can expect something similar this year.

 

[damacles1156]

I want Mersch to earn a spot, not simply have one. Same goes for Forbort/Gravel/Nolan/Clifford/Shore/Dowd/Andy.

 

[USE Fi]

I want Mersch to earn a spot, not simply have one. Same goes for Forbort/Gravel/Nolan/Clifford/Shore/Dowd/Andy.

Well i agree on that 100% But like Mersch and Gravel it`s easy to just make them play for AHL because you don`t lose them on waiver.

 

[AlphaBravo]

I am not sure if this is based on inside knowledge by Rosen, or simply his own speculation, but he has repeatedly said in the offseason that, although Gravel can be sent down without going through waivers, he is a lock for the roster. If true, it appears that Gilbert, Troutman, Green, Fobert, and Scuderi will be competing for one roster spot and one spot as the 7th defenseman.

I think Scuderi will be sent down to save cap space and because he is not as good as the players listed. Fobert may be given another look in training camp and if Sutter has issues with him, the Kings can get a pick for him. Gilbert, Greene and Troutman can be waived without another team picking them up, so no concern there.

Injuries will obviously play a role in the defensive roster. Its good that we have options this year if someone goes down.

 

[YP44]

I want Mersch to earn a spot, not simply have one. Same goes for Forbort/Gravel/Nolan/Clifford/Shore/Dowd/Andy.

agree but even if 1 player was dealt there still would be more forwards than roster spots.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The locks on the blueline will be Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, McNabb and Gravel. I think we'll be seeing those 5 regularly in the lineup (God willing they aren't injured).

Now, Gravel and/or McNabb could go through some ups and downs and we don't know how consistent their 2016-17 season will be, which would explain why they'll be seeing some competition from 5 others.

Given how long Greene has sat out, I can't see him starting the season in the lineup. If he makes the team, it'll be as a 7th defenseman. I also think that the Kings picked up some extra defensemen in case some bodies are lost through waivers or injury.

Realistically, they're replacing the likes of Schenn, McBain and Schultz with Gilbert, Trotman and Scuderi. Greene may wind up on LTIR again given how fragile he's been over the past few years. I think his career is winding down at this point.

 

[YP44]

I am not sure if this is based on inside knowledge by Rosen, or simply his own speculation, but he has repeatedly said in the offseason that, although Gravel can be sent down without going through waivers, he is a lock for the roster. If true, it appears that Gilbert, Troutman, Green, Fobert, and Scuderi will be competing for one roster spot and one spot as the 7th defenseman.

I think Scuderi will be sent down to save cap space and because he is not as good as the players listed. Fobert may be given another look in training camp and if Sutter has issues with him, the Kings can get a pick for him. Gilbert, Greene and Troutman can be waived without another team picking them up, so no concern there.

Injuries will obviously play a role in the defensive roster. Its good that we have options this year if someone goes down.

the fact Greene cleared waivers once this offseason makes me think they may put him and Scuds on waivers. I would think both would clear, and be called up in case of injury.
The Trotman signing seemed odd to me as there already were a few D competing for less spots. At this point I could see LA waiving Forbort just like Berube and Hickey before him.