2016-17 Kings Roster Part 2

[damacles1156]

Remember Davis Drewiske? For some reason the Kings picked him over making room for Hickey. They would later trade Drewiske to Montreal that season.

But they made up for it by getting Keaton Ellerby. That was a great move, lose Hickey, gain Ellerby.

Like I said, they lost an asset, taken fourth overall, for nothing. Wouldn't you consider that poor asset management?

First of all, Hickey shouldn't of been picked 4th overall, that was mistake one.

Hickey is not some great loss either, he has carved out a decent career for himself(good for him). Hickey is not that great of a Defender. Hence the Five years it took him to develop at the AHL level.

Poor assets management is losing Colin Miller, for one year of Lucic, that's poor management. Especially since the Kings really needed Defensive depth, that was right handed.

The Kings back in 2012-13, could afford to lose players like Hickey(fringe guys) cause they had a stout Defense core. The Kings can't now, they need cheap young players, to keep the roster going.

Poor drafting since 2011 (minus Pearson) has SUNK the Kings. It's come home to roost.

Two Stanley Cups cost the Kings the farm.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I harken back to Hickey because of a multitude of reasons.

The selection of him at #4 was highly questionable, then he spent parts of four seasons in Manchester that made him eligible for waivers.

They didn't need a Hickey for their Cup run in 2014, but you look at the guys to pass through since Mitchell and Regehr moved on (and the unexpected loss of Voynov), and you realize that in the big picture, they royally ****ed up with the selection and the loss of Hickey.

It's one of many poor decisions this organization has been making. They were fortunate with Gaborik in 2014 and the trades for Carter and Williams were some of the best move's in this organizations history.

But then you look at the decisions Lombardi has made over the past couple of seasons and suddenly you remember that this is the same man who traded for Dan Cloutier and immediately signed him to an extension before he appeared in a game with the team. Getting rid of him turned into an ugly mess.

He also gave John Zeiler a four-year extension. I think he also did that with Drewiske too. Silly Deano and his infatuation with players of little skill...

I feel like Dean has reverted back to making a series of questionable decisions that have set the team backwards. They might have to suck again for a couple of seasons before they can bounce back, because this roster as it is isn't going to go very far, even if everyone was healthy. Their top six is still incomplete and their blueline still needs help.

Most of us figured that at best, this is a team that might get to the playoffs, and thus far they haven't proven us wrong.

 

[damacles1156]

We seriously going to complain over losing Hickey to waivers, when he couldn't crack arguably the Best Defense the Kings Ever had ?

Scuds/Doughty
Mitchell/Slava
A-Mart/Greene

Muzzin/Doughty
Mitchell/Slava
A-Mart/RR/Greene

Where the hell was Hickey suppose to play ? The Bench for the next two years of his career?

No, the Kings waived him, so the young man could get his shot elsewhere.

 

[damacles1156]

I harken back to Hickey because of a multitude of reasons.

The selection of him at #4 was highly questionable, then he spent parts of four seasons in Manchester that made him eligible for waivers.

They didn't need a Hickey for their Cup run in 2014, but you look at the guys to pass through since Mitchell and Regehr moved on (and the unexpected loss of Voynov), and you realize that in the big picture, they royally ****ed up with the selection and the loss of Hickey.

It's one of many poor decisions this organization has been making. They were fortunate with Gaborik in 2014 and the trades for Carter and Williams were some of the best move's in this organizations history.

But then you look at the decisions Lombardi has made over the past couple of seasons and suddenly you remember that this is the same man who traded for Dan Cloutier and immediately signed him to an extension before he appeared in a game with the team. Getting rid of him turned into an ugly mess.

He also gave John Zeiler a four-year extension. I think he also did that with Drewiske too. Silly Deano and his infatuation with players of little skill...

I feel like Dean has reverted back to making a series of questionable decisions that have set the team backwards. They might have to suck again for a couple of seasons before they can bounce back, because this roster as it is isn't going to go very far, even if everyone was healthy. Their top six is still incomplete and their blueline still needs help.

Most of us figured that at best, this is a team that might get to the playoffs, and thus far they haven't proven us wrong.

Poor drafting since 2011 is a major contributor to the current rosters struggles.

There is no help that has come in(Pearson/Forbort, that's it), and it's not coming this season probably.

Mike Futa has his staff, are batting poorly right now.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Lombardi has been the GM here for almost 11 years. There's a lot of moves and non-moves in there. He's going to have hits and misses. Every GM does. Especially any that have been in one place so long. Always easier on the way up than trying to stay there.

Chicago made a tough decision when they traded Saad before he got his big contract, because they had all those other big contracts for older players. Should Lombardi trade Toffoli in late June to recoup some of the lost future value that Brown and Gaboirk no longer have?

 

[SFKingshomer]

Lombardi has been the GM here for almost 11 years. There's a lot of moves and non-moves in there. He's going to have hits and misses. Every GM does. Especially any that have been in one place so long. Always easier on the way up than trying to stay there.

Chicago made a tough decision when they traded Saad before he got his big contract, because they had all those other big contracts for older players. Should Lombardi trade Toffoli in late June to recoup some of the lost future value that Brown and Gaboirk no longer have?

No he shouldn't trade Toffoli because he doesn't have a Panarin signing in the works.

 

[KingsFan7824]

No he shouldn't trade Toffoli because he doesn't have a Panarin signing in the works.

Well it was more of a risk/safe, or short/long term theory question, but Panarin hadn't even played an NHL game yet when they traded Saad.

If the roster has become calcified, it's not going to get any easier to fill out the roster and win while yet another big contract is added. Not to mention whatever Pearson is going to get. The only way to do it is if the big money guys put up big money numbers, and/or very cheap players come in and play like $3m+ players to make up the difference.

 

[Butch 19]

Lombardi has been the GM here for almost 11 years. There's a lot of moves and non-moves in there. He's going to have hits and misses. Every GM does. Especially any that have been in one place so long. Always easier on the way up than trying to stay there.

But Hickey was as close to no-brainer bad pick pretty much the instant he was chosen.

Many (most?) pundits didn't even have him going until the 2nd round or later. And we've all read that Boston supposedly wanted him to fall to #8. If true, so what? Every team has their lists of which players they want to draft.

Blowing a pick happens, we know that. But blowing a 4OA stings a lot more.

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

...Blowing a pick happens, we know that. But blowing a 4OA stings a lot more.

Amen. Particularly since we have either had no 1st-rounders or late first-rounders for most of the last decade. Fourth pick wasted hurts a lot.

I question if the Kings' drafting has been poor for picks 2-7. I think their development has been excellent. But what has (or hasn't) happened with our first-round picks has hurt our ability to provide the team with anything but mainly grinders (Toffoli notwithstanding).

1st-round picks 2007-2016

2007 Thomas Hickey (0 return)
2008 Drew Doughty (superstar)
2009 Colton Teubert (bust)
2010 Derek Forbort (midlevel D)
2011 0
2012 Tanner Pearson (Top 6)
2013 0
2014 Adrian Kempe (TBD)
2015 0
2016 0

So in the last 10 years, we have one star D, one Top 6 forward, one midlevel D, and one TBD from our first-round picks.

Obviously, Carter was well-worth JJ and the 2013 first-round pick, but it still means we have no first-, second-round or third-round prospects (bye Zykov!) from 2013 to help us out now. Heck, we don't even have one of our 4th-round prospects (Fasching) or our 5th-round prospect (Beat-em-up Bartosak) from 2013 either. All we have from the 2013 draft is a 4th (Auger), 5th (Brodzinski) and a 6th (Leslie).

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Amen. Particularly since we have either had no 1st-rounders or late first-rounders for most of the last decade. Fourth pick wasted hurts a lot.

I question if the Kings' drafting has been poor for picks 2-7. I think their development has been excellent. But what has (or hasn't) happened with our first-round picks has hurt our ability to provide the team with anything but mainly grinders (Toffoli notwithstanding).

1st-round picks 2007-2016

2007 Thomas Hickey (0 return)
2008 Drew Doughty (superstar)
2009 Colton Teubert (bust)
2010 Derek Forbort (midlevel D)
2011 0
2012 Tanner Pearson (Top 6)
2013 0
2014 Adrian Kempe (TBD)
2015 0
2016 0

So in the last 10 years, we have one star D, one Top 6 forward, one midlevel D, and one TBD from our first-round picks.

Obviously, Carter was well-worth JJ and the 2013 first-round pick, but it still means we have no first-, second-round or third-round prospects (bye Zykov!) from 2013 to help us out now. Heck, we don't even have one of our 4th-round prospects (Fasching) or our 5th-round prospect (Beat-em-up Bartosak) from 2013 either. All we have from the 2013 draft is a 4th (Auger), 5th (Brodzinski) and a 6th (Leslie).

I don't disagree with your premise but as I've discussed with some of the other posters we did turn those picks into things even if we didn't draft them directly. Sometimes folks want to just ignore that but player acquisition and development is multi-faceted, you can't just look at one area because the assets are fluid--moved picks become players and such. And DL has mostly nailed turning prospects/picks into contributing roster players, it's like putting miracle gro on an 18 year old so you can have a roster 25 year old to extend your window. Fasching isn't an NHLer yet but he became McNabb, Schenn was another top-5 pick etc. The organizational focus went from drafting d-men as you saw with Doughty and Voynov to skill forwards in more recent years--but we just didn't have the firsts to show for it because we were busy getting Carter, Penner, et. al. I bet I know what we're going after this year though

The other thing that seems apparent to me is that the organization treats players like I do in fantasy--everyone needs d-men, so it's much easier to sling a non-top-10 but developed d-man and some picks for a higher-end forward, so we overload on them. Now we literally have too many though, so I imagine we're going to see some prospect moves coming up.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Welp. Per Rosen.

"Reign forward and Kings prospect Michael Mersch will miss extended time with a knee injury, this news coming as more details emerged about his condition on Saturday.

Reign Director of Hockey Operations Hubie McDonough said Saturday morning of Mersch’s timetable to return that, “we’re guessing somewhere in mid to end of February."

Poor Mersch, was really starting to come along too and I was hoping to see him in some games this year. It wont' show on our official NHL injury report, but just add that to the list of names going out for months for the year.

 

[KingsFan7824]

But Hickey was as close to no-brainer bad pick pretty much the instant he was chosen.

Many (most?) pundits didn't even have him going until the 2nd round or later. And we've all read that Boston supposedly wanted him to fall to #8. If true, so what? Every team has their lists of which players they want to draft.

Blowing a pick happens, we know that. But blowing a 4OA stings a lot more.

It does. If they have the ultimate kind of success in spite of that, it stings a little less. They chose the wrong guy at #4, and still have 2 Cups. A little luck, a little hard work, and they rebounded from a mistake.

Who knows how things go if they didn't pick Hickey. Maybe the butterfly effect has them not even winning in 2012. Maybe they're a slightly better team in 2009, don't get Schenn, and don't get Richards. Maybe they win the Cup in 2011. Maybe they take Alzner at #4 instead, and then don't take a chance on Mitchell in the summer of 2010. Then what? Mitchell ended up being a huge reason they won.

They also got Martinez and Voynov well after the 4th overall pick, so if you have enough options, things tend to even out.

 

[johnjm22]

Well, they did lose two guys they'll be facing tomorrow to waivers with Hickey and Berube because they let they play in the minors long enough that they became waiver eligible. Two assets lost for nothing.

That has nothing to do with overripening.

 

[johnjm22]

Amen. Particularly since we have either had no 1st-rounders or late first-rounders for most of the last decade. Fourth pick wasted hurts a lot.

I question if the Kings' drafting has been poor for picks 2-7. I think their development has been excellent. But what has (or hasn't) happened with our first-round picks has hurt our ability to provide the team with anything but mainly grinders (Toffoli notwithstanding).

1st-round picks 2007-2016

2007 Thomas Hickey (0 return)
2008 Drew Doughty (superstar)
2009 Colton Teubert (bust)
2010 Derek Forbort (midlevel D)
2011 0
2012 Tanner Pearson (Top 6)
2013 0
2014 Adrian Kempe (TBD)
2015 0
2016 0

So in the last 10 years, we have one star D, one Top 6 forward, one midlevel D, and one TBD from our first-round picks.

Obviously, Carter was well-worth JJ and the 2013 first-round pick, but it still means we have no first-, second-round or third-round prospects (bye Zykov!) from 2013 to help us out now. Heck, we don't even have one of our 4th-round prospects (Fasching) or our 5th-round prospect (Beat-em-up Bartosak) from 2013 either. All we have from the 2013 draft is a 4th (Auger), 5th (Brodzinski) and a 6th (Leslie).

Your list should include Bernier and Lewis. People will say that they weren't DL picks, but that's a myth.

 

[King'sPawn]

Amen. Particularly since we have either had no 1st-rounders or late first-rounders for most of the last decade. Fourth pick wasted hurts a lot.

I question if the Kings' drafting has been poor for picks 2-7. I think their development has been excellent. But what has (or hasn't) happened with our first-round picks has hurt our ability to provide the team with anything but mainly grinders (Toffoli notwithstanding).

1st-round picks 2007-2016

2007 Thomas Hickey (0 return)
2008 Drew Doughty (superstar)
2009 Colton Teubert (bust)
2010 Derek Forbort (midlevel D)
2011 0
2012 Tanner Pearson (Top 6)
2013 0
2014 Adrian Kempe (TBD)
2015 0
2016 0

So in the last 10 years, we have one star D, one Top 6 forward, one midlevel D, and one TBD from our first-round picks.

Obviously, Carter was well-worth JJ and the 2013 first-round pick, but it still means we have no first-, second-round or third-round prospects (bye Zykov!) from 2013 to help us out now. Heck, we don't even have one of our 4th-round prospects (Fasching) or our 5th-round prospect (Beat-em-up Bartosak) from 2013 either. All we have from the 2013 draft is a 4th (Auger), 5th (Brodzinski) and a 6th (Leslie).

Teubert was drafted in 2008 with Doughty. He was traded with a first for Dustin Penner, who helped the Kings win their first cup.

Brayden Schenn was drafted in 2009 and traded with Simmonds for Richards.

The problem is they traded away picks and players for players who helped for a short burst but then were lost for nothing, hurting the cupboard.

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

I don't disagree with your premise but as I've discussed with some of the other posters we did turn those picks into things even if we didn't draft them directly. Sometimes folks want to just ignore that but player acquisition and development is multi-faceted, you can't just look at one area because the assets are fluid--moved picks become players and such. And DL has mostly nailed turning prospects/picks into contributing roster players, it's like putting miracle gro on an 18 year old so you can have a roster 25 year old to extend your window. Fasching isn't an NHLer yet but he became McNabb, Schenn was another top-5 pick etc. The organizational focus went from drafting d-men as you saw with Doughty and Voynov to skill forwards in more recent years--but we just didn't have the firsts to show for it because we were busy getting Carter, Penner, et. al. I bet I know what we're going after this year though

The other thing that seems apparent to me is that the organization treats players like I do in fantasy--everyone needs d-men, so it's much easier to sling a non-top-10 but developed d-man and some picks for a higher-end forward, so we overload on them. Now we literally have too many though, so I imagine we're going to see some prospect moves coming up.

You're right about the org focusing on D. I went over the returns we got from 2013-related trades, chiefly benefitting the D, in a post I wrote several days ago. But if someone wants to know why we have so many grinders and no Top 6 scoring saviors in Ontario, just look at our first-round draft history in the last decade.

ETA: KP, I absolutely saw great short-term results you mentioned, and they were worth it to get the Cup. But as you saw, it explains why our forward cupboards are bare today. Surely there must be some formula for how many 1st-round picks you can afford to lose through trade, bust or waivers.

 

[Sacha Baron Corbin]

Sucks to hear about Mersch, that will effectively cross him off the call up list this year. Goes to show how thin the depth is in the organization right now, MM was one of the three guys I could see getting a call up this year

 

[Trolfoli]

You guys are conveniently leaving out King & Lewis as top 6'ers Lombardi drafted.

 

[damacles1156]

Welp. Per Rosen.

"Reign forward and Kings prospect Michael Mersch will miss extended time with a knee injury, this news coming as more details emerged about his condition on Saturday.

Reign Director of Hockey Operations Hubie McDonough said Saturday morning of Mersch’s timetable to return that, “we’re guessing somewhere in mid to end of February."

Poor Mersch, was really starting to come along too and I was hoping to see him in some games this year. It wont' show on our official NHL injury report, but just add that to the list of names going out for months for the year.

Tough break for Mersch, he was starting to turn it on. It happens though, he will come back ready to play.

 

[Trolfoli]

Teubert was drafted in 2008 with Doughty. He was traded with a first for Dustin Penner, who helped the Kings win their first cup.

Brayden Schenn was drafted in 2009 and traded with Simmonds for Richards.

The problem is they traded away picks and players for players who helped for a short burst but then were lost for nothing, hurting the cupboard.

The alternative is to sit on your hands like the Ducks and watch as the window goes by without ever taking a shot.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The alternative is to sit on your hands like the Ducks and watch as the window goes by without ever taking a shot.

Is it closed though? I know they find ways to choke in the playoffs, but their top 3 on D with Fowler, Lindholm and Vatanen are all under 26, they also have Theodore and Manson who are also young.

Rakell, Ritchie, Kase are in their early 20s, and Silfverberg is 26, and they totally ripped off Ottawa in that Bobby Ryan trade.

I'm not envious of their playoff runs, but their scouts have done a damn good job. Their issues fall on their GM, coach and leadership.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

You guys are conveniently leaving out King & Lewis as top 6'ers Lombardi drafted.

Good point they are playing there they should count

 

[damacles1156]

Is it closed though? I know they find ways to choke in the playoffs, but their top 3 on D with Fowler, Lindholm and Vatanen are all under 26, they also have Theodore and Manson who are also young.

Rakell, Ritchie, Kase are in their early 20s, and Silfverberg is 26, and they totally ripped off Ottawa in that Bobby Ryan trade.

I'm not envious of their playoff runs, but their scouts have done a damn good job. Their issues fall on their GM, coach and leadership.

They also have an owner, that puts an internal cap on the team. that's the rumor anyway.

 

[Sacha Baron Corbin]

The alternative is to sit on your hands like the Ducks and watch as the window goes by without ever taking a shot.

The difference between LA and the Ducks is that they still have so much young talent that it actually creates a problem with the expansion draft looming and they have an internal cap like Damacles said.

I know we make fun of them for their playoff runs but they have still managed their assets much better than the post-2014 Kings, and are in a much better spot than LA is.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Is it closed though? I know they find ways to choke in the playoffs, but their top 3 on D with Fowler, Lindholm and Vatanen are all under 26, they also have Theodore and Manson who are also young.

Rakell, Ritchie, Kase are in their early 20s, and Silfverberg is 26, and they totally ripped off Ottawa in that Bobby Ryan trade.

I'm not envious of their playoff runs, but their scouts have done a damn good job. Their issues fall on their GM, coach and leadership.

I don't think it's closed at all, but I think the point is that aside from the Kesler trade they've mostly sat on their hands with respect to ever 'going for it' any given year. They've chosen the model that a lot here desire--and to be clear, I don't think this is 'bad'--which is similar to the Sharks, and that is stay competitive for years through consistent drafting and replacing roster players with youth. I wouldn't say their window is closed, but they're facing their next challenge--life with an aging Getzlaf and Perry (and Kesler I guess), an expansion draft that's going to poach some of their youth (protect Silfverberg = lose, like, Vatanen), and the fact that while many of these guys are skilled players, who is the next 1C? Rakell? I mean, granted, the Kings and Hawks have been monstrous the last few years, but what if the Ducks would have traded for Gaborik-style gamebreaker? They'd still have a monster farm. They never did enough to get over the hump imo--they could have translated their huge bank of assets to do so.

And to be fair, their approach yields what the Sharks does--no championships YET but there's always the 'make the playoffs and anything can happen' which I'm all about anyway which is why I don't say it's 'bad' but I'm damn glad we had Lombardi who has a higher slugging percentage because he's swinging for the fences.

Tough break for Mersch, he was starting to turn it on. It happens though, he will come back ready to play.

I do feel terrible for him. All the Reign started putting it together to surge into first but now they'll be hurting again. It's a knee on what was a slower player too, so regardless of the work he's putting in, I'm worried for his career.